Sept. 10, 2026

Zodiac: The Real Story by Dennis Kaufman

Show Notes
Transcript

Dennis Kaufman retells his story that will live on through his work and investigation into Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. Dennis spent more than 15 years trying to get law enforcement to do their jobs. Media and law enforcement has made a mockery out of the system with false suspects and DNA test on people. The only questions left to ask is why didn’t they return any of Jack’s belongings, Dennis’ evidence against Jack, and why is this still a mystery while the media syndicate sluffs it all off?

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Riders on the storm Riders

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on the storm Into this house we're born To this

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world we're thrown Like a dog without a bone An

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actor out alone Riders on the storm There's a killer

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on the road His brain is squirming like a toad

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Let your children play If you give this man a

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ride Sweet family will die Killer on the road.

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The two victims were ordered out of the car and

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shot out of the car.

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Around San Francisco, the name Zodiac evokes darkness.

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It's scary and the murders are real.

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Four decades have done nothing to lessen the brutality of

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his crimes. Five point-blank executions by bullet and blade.

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There were multiple victims.

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From multiple areas.

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For two years, the Zodiac killed.

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Police are now convinced that it was the killer of

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a San Francisco cab driver who sent in a swatch

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of bloody cloth with a letter to the San Francisco Chronicle.

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Taunted police in a string of letters to local newspapers.

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The Zodiac would write letters to the editor bragging of

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his exploits.

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Dear editor, this is the Zodiac. Then disappeared.

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X Identity has become the holy grail for a dedicated

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band of amateur sleuths. Over the years, thousands have taken

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up the hunt. We went hunting with a few of them.

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Hello!

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None more memorable than Dennis Kaufman. For him, unmasking the

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Zodiac is not a profession, but an obsession.

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I realize that a lot of people come forward and

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claim to know who the Zodiac is, and that makes

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it very difficult for me, because the bottom line is,

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I really do know who the Zodiac is.

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1971 to 1974.

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Dennis Kaufman spent eight years building a circumstantial case against

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his stepfather. He claims even accounts for the Zodiac's disappearance.

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Because we moved to Minnesota, then to Texas, and then

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back here. It started a month later.

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DNA tests are being done on letters and envelopes sent

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from Jack Torrance.

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They're not telling me everything either.

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All I know is that they want more items, so

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that's what we're doing. The FBI not closing the books

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on attempts to identify the Zodiac, the serial killer from

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the 1960s.

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Tonight claims there's a new connection between the FBI suspect

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and the Zodiac. Chris Pickle is live in the CBS

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13 newsroom with the new developments.

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You've been following this one closely. Yes, I have.

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And a local document examiner now says she has been

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able to link the two, and that is all there

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in black and white.

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I told them it was purely an entertainment value that

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I would even take a look at it.

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A case she wasn't interested in turned intriguing. Forensic document

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examiner Nanette Bardo let a pile of handwriting samples sit

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on her desk for two months. Once she started going

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through them, instead of discounting a connection, she reached a

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conclusion she never expected.

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My opinion, Jack is indeed the author of the Zodiac letters.

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Jack.

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Zodiac.

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A name that terrorized Northern California for almost a decade.

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He would murder and then write to Bay Area newspapers

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taking credit for his crimes. There have been many people

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over the years that have came forward claiming to know

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the identity of the Zodiac Killer.

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It seems to be an obsession for people all over

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the world, and it only seems to grow with time.

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His reign of terror began in 1966, and after 1974,

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Zodiac vanished just as mysteriously as he appeared.

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My name is Dennis Kaufman. Join me in my journey

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for the truth. My name is Stephen Dewhurst.

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I'm an associate professor at Northern Arizona University. After investigating

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Dennis Kaufman's evidence and his case for his stepfather being

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the Zodiac Killer.

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At this point, I am completely convinced that Jack Terrence

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was in.

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Fact the Zodiac Killer and probably a.

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Whole lot more.

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Just over a year after Mom's death in June of 2000,

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I was in Olympia, Washington, visiting my sister. While I

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was there, a show came on television called Case Reopened

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by Lawrence Block.

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It was a documentary about.

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The Zodiac Killer who had eluded police for over 30 years.

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As I was watching the show, The hair on my

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arm stood up. It's like every question I ever had

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was answered at that point. I knew exactly who they

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were talking about.

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Here is a photo of Jack in 1967. And this

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composite of the Zodiac was done in 1969. The photo

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of Jack was taken in 1973.

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The Sonoma composite was done in 1975. Notice the lazy

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left eye.

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In July of 1969, Zodiac's communications to local Bay Area

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newspapers began. One went to the San Francisco Chronicle, another

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went to the San Francisco Examiner, and the third letter

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went to the Vallejo Times Herald. I took words from

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the Zodiac letters that he mailed to police, and I

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also took words from letters that Jack sent me over

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the years. The top row of words is Zodiac's writing.

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and the road just beneath it is Jack's riding. You

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can see the similarities. The only difference I noticed in

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the riding.

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Was the letter A. If you look at the word page,

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you can see that the A's are different.

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Jack sometimes forgets and writes the letter A like he

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did on the zodiac letters. The word at, and then

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we have the word age. Both of those A's are

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written like they are on the Zodiac letters. Then you

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have the word Dad, which is Jack's normal style of

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his A.

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In Zodiac's writing, we find the odd splitting of words.

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This is a letter that Zodiac sent to the San

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Francisco Chronicle in January of 1974. If you look at

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the word comedy on the second line, you see the COM,

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then it's split in half, and the IDY continues on

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the third line. There's plenty of room for that word

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to be written there. In Jack's writing, we find this

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same odd splitting of words. The word automatically is cut off,

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and the LY continues on the next line. Once again,

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there's plenty of room for that word to be written there.

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Another odd characteristic about Zodiac's writing is the odd spacing

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in his words. We find these same odd characteristics in

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Jack's writing, the odd spacing in his words, insubordination, argumentative, disregards, etc.

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After studying both Zodiac letters and Jack's writing, you've come

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to the conclusion that Jack is the author of the

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Zodiac letters, correct?

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And you are completely confident in your decision in that? Absolutely.

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With 55 matching identifying traits, I believe that's more traits

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than I would find in any one individual examination.

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That I've ever completed.

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It is very compelling to indicate that that many matches

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would ensure an author match between the Zodiac letters and

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the writings of Jack Terrence.

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I remember the first time that I met Jack. I

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walked into the living room and he had his arm

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around my mother. And I walked over to him and

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I said, get your arm off of my mother. Well,

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he looked at me and he says, we need to

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have a talk. So he took me in the bedroom

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and he gave me a whooping.

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And he said, listen, he says, I don't want to

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be here any more than you want me here, but

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I have no choice.

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Well, I never knew what he meant by that until now.

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This is Jack's hypnosis symbol in his own writing. Zodiac

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uses the same symbol. On March 19, 1971, Zodiac mailed

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this card to the San Francisco Chronicle.

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It was mailed from Pleasanton, California.

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The card is a rendition of an area in Lake Tahoe.

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This is where we were living at the time.

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Jack had a court date in San Jose, California the

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very same day that this postcard was mailed. He would

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have had to go right through Pleasanton on his way

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to court that day.

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We were living in South Lake Tahoe.

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He would have took Highway 50 down through Sacramento, then

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on the 680 South, right through Pleasanton.

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This is where the letter was.

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Mailed that day, and this is where his court date

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was in San Jose.

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On March 17, 1974, Jack was arrested for poaching. On

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July the 8th, 1974, Zodiac mailed this letter from San Rafael, California.

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Just two days after this letter was mailed, on July 10th, 1974,

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Jack was sentenced to 30 days in a county jail

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for his poaching incident.

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This is the first time that Jack had done any

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jail time. Zodiac was never heard from again.

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Is he capable of doing something like murder?

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Yes.

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Based on what I remember growing up, he has told

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enough stories that makes me think that he has committed murder.

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Hearing what I've heard, going out and committing cold-blooded murders,

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hard for.

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Me to believe.

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Is it possible?

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Yeah, probably.

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And all I remember is him pulling out.

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A pocket knife and he stabbed somebody.

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And I just remember horrified because I had known mom

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didn't want us to see that.

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Now, what kind of statement is that?

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That was after he told me that him and Denny

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had killed that man in that cabin. So this is

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a story he told me him and Denny had done

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together in Northern California. Had burned a man alive in

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the cabin.

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People come up to me and say, Dennis.

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Why don't you move on with your life and get

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away from the Zodiac case?

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Well, the answer to that is simple.

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In the kind of life You can hear the thunder

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Long before the storm But you can't hear the lion

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When he stalks his prey.

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He's moving like a shadow, creeping up on you.

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And like a siren's call, he's gonna.

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Have his way.

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You better run, forget your pride.

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Don't make a stand, just step aside.

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If you don't have what it takes Don't try to play,

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you'll lose your.

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State Renewed by this at least It's the nature of

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the beast It's the nature of the beast You won't

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hear a footstep Coming up on you Moving like a snake,

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he's in complete control This killer knows his business.

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He is the predator.

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You are its only target.

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You're its only goal.

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What will you say?

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What will you do?

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Your wildest.

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Nightmare is coming true.

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There is nothing you.

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Can say No way to change, he won't delay This guy.

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Will have his feast It's the nature of the beast

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It's the nature.

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Of the beast.

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Most of the items I found in Jack's storage shed

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when I searched it in 2001 were found in this

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green metal box. In December of 1968, a white Chevy

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Impala was seen leaving the crime scene at the Lake

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Herman murders. During that time, Jack owned a white Chevy Impala.

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In September of 1969, Zodiac attacked a young couple on

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the shores of Lake Berryessa. Witnesses reported seeing an ice

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blue two-door Chevy Impala that day. Here's a photo of

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Jack in 1971 standing in front of his ice blue

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two-door Chevy Impala.

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This is Jack's hypnosis symbol in his own writings.

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Zodiac uses the same symbol.

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Dr.

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Zodiac not ordinary criminal. He is man of great ego

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with disease known to science as pseudologia fantastica. Criminal egotist

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find pleasure in laughing at police.

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Jack was stationed at Treasure Island during the time this

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movie was playing there. In September of 1969, Zodiac attacked

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a couple on the shores of Lake Berryessa. At the

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crime scene, he left behind shoe impressions. Police were able

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to determine that they came from a rare military shoe

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called a wing walker. They were designed for walking on

244
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.619
the wings of airplanes. Jack would have had access to

245
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:18.619
these military shoes when he was a technical supply sergeant

246
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:19.900
for the United States Air Force.

247
00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:25.809
On June 3, 2003, I was at my cell phone

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00:17:25.829 --> 00:17:29.589
store and Jack was there too and he found one

249
00:17:29.630 --> 00:17:33.390
of my guns that I had hidden in the back. Well,

250
00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:35.150
I saw him with a gun so I grabbed my

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00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:38.359
pistol from underneath the counter and luckily my little brother

252
00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:41.259
was in between us because one of us probably would

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have shot each other. Well, just after this incident, a

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customer walked in named Tracy. She had been in my

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00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:49.400
store prior to that and I knew she was married

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00:17:49.420 --> 00:17:53.319
to a sheriff. And she walked in my store, and

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00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.519
she could tell something was wrong. And I was trying

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00:17:55.539 --> 00:17:58.180
to play it off so it wasn't obvious that something

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00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.920
had just happened. And about that time, Jack came from

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00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:04.259
the back and handed me something like a pencil. I

261
00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:05.859
don't remember what it was, but he handed me something.

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00:18:06.589 --> 00:18:09.480
And Tracy was like in shock. And she said, who

263
00:18:09.549 --> 00:18:12.650
is that man? I said, Tracy, you really want to know?

264
00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:14.170
And she said, yes, I do.

265
00:18:15.009 --> 00:18:18.329
So I told her. And she left.

266
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.769
And there was three Sacramento sheriffs at my store within

267
00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:24.309
20 minutes that she had sent down there.

268
00:18:24.529 --> 00:18:30.609
And they interviewed Jack. And this is her story.

269
00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:36.400
I noticed there was a man standing at the door,

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00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:40.680
the back door, and he was just staring at me.

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00:18:40.940 --> 00:18:42.960
And I looked up and I said, hi, how are you?

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00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.410
And he just looked at me. He had no expression

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00:18:45.470 --> 00:18:49.279
on his face whatsoever. It was very... eerie to say

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00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:49.819
the least.

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00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.299
So, Dennis was saying, Tracy, could you please go get Ralph?

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00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.589
Ralph is your ex-fiancee.

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00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:00.930
He's a deputy sheriff. And I said, yes, I will,

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00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:04.049
but what's going on here? And it was very weird.

279
00:19:04.069 --> 00:19:09.279
It was very scary. And I went to the parking lot,

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00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:12.269
got in my car, and I called a news channel.

281
00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:13.650
I can't remember if it was 13.

282
00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:15.890
3, or 10, but it is on file.

283
00:19:16.089 --> 00:19:16.329
Yes.

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00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:19.430
And I said, are you close to a sheriff's station?

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I said, well, yeah. I drove to the service center.

286
00:19:23.130 --> 00:19:25.869
I walked in, and the lieutenant was in there, and

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I asked him, please go to the back with me.

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They all met me, and they followed me to the back.

289
00:19:30.420 --> 00:19:31.259
They knew me as.

290
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.460
Yeah.

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00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.779
With Ralph and everything, exactly. And they sat down with me,

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00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:38.960
and I was... petrified. They knew it. I told them

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the story. They got on.

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Their phones and they were, you know, questioning me about

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00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:45.329
this and that. And they were, one of them, or Rick,

296
00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:47.890
was upset and saying, you know, this isn't cool. you know,

297
00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:50.470
to that effect, that if this guy is making this up,

298
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this is not okay. To tell the public that this

299
00:19:54.589 --> 00:19:57.980
person is the Zodiac Killer and making you this upset.

300
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Of course.

301
00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:01.400
And I remember telling him, you know what, I don't

302
00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:03.460
know so much about the Zodiac Killer, but I can

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tell you one thing.

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This man that was standing there looking at me made

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my skin crawl.

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It was unbelievable.

307
00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:17.799
In February of 1999, my mother just had her leg

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amputated from just below the knee down due to diabetes. Well,

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after she had her leg amputated, I noticed a red spot,

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and it looked like it might be getting infected, so

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I didn't want to take any chances. So I talked

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00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.759
her into going to the hospital and having it checked out.

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When we arrived at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento,

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00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:39.390
the doctor agreed that she needed to stay for a

315
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.259
few days watch it, make sure there was no infection,

316
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:46.009
make sure the infection went away. Well, while she was

317
00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:50.190
in the hospital, she was there for about three days,

318
00:20:51.250 --> 00:20:54.069
and the doctor said she was okay to go home.

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00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:57.210
So we said we'd be there the next morning to

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00:20:57.390 --> 00:21:01.960
pick her up, to take her home. And the next morning,

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00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:04.559
she was found on the floor in a coma.

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Nobody knows what happened.

323
00:21:07.339 --> 00:21:11.190
While my mother was on life support, I went to

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00:21:11.210 --> 00:21:15.109
the hospital to visit her, and to my surprise, I

325
00:21:15.130 --> 00:21:17.450
was wanted for terrorist threats that I did not make.

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00:21:18.750 --> 00:21:19.930
I was barely able to make it out of the

327
00:21:19.950 --> 00:21:23.349
hospital without getting caught. So I sent my girlfriend Joy

328
00:21:23.390 --> 00:21:26.190
back down there to see what was going on. Come

329
00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:29.619
to find out, Jack, my stepdad, had called the hospital

330
00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:30.349
and said he was me.

331
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:32.519
And he threatened to kill the security guards.

332
00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:36.720
I was wanted for terrorist threats, and my mother passed

333
00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:37.680
away before I was able to.

334
00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:38.170
Clear that up.

335
00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:43.930
Okay, when I was in Washington and we were visiting

336
00:21:44.890 --> 00:21:49.259
Charles and Jack called me into his room and said, Mary,

337
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.180
he says, I want to ask you something. I want

338
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:54.140
to know if you really think that I killed Nora.

339
00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.180
And I said, well, Jack, all you have to do

340
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:02.900
is search your conscience and if you have a clear conscience,

341
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.900
then you don't have to worry about anything.

342
00:22:08.190 --> 00:22:10.950
The plan for Zodiac's bomb came from the schematic of

343
00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:15.470
a UP-15 teleprinter. These machines are used by ham radio operators.

344
00:22:19.769 --> 00:22:21.529
Jack was a ham radio operator.

345
00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:28.289
The bomb diagram on the left is Zodiac's diagram and

346
00:22:28.309 --> 00:22:30.609
the bomb diagram on the right is one that I

347
00:22:30.650 --> 00:22:34.549
found in Jack's storage when I searched it in 2001.

348
00:22:44.730 --> 00:22:51.650
Just when you think you've waited that long I've spent

349
00:22:51.670 --> 00:23:02.089
some time to be alone I hope to see the place.

350
00:23:01.190 --> 00:23:01.769
Once more.

351
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.480
Zodiac case, we have three different composites from three different counties.

352
00:23:20.869 --> 00:23:25.809
We have the San Francisco composite that was done in 1969.

353
00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:28.329
Then we have the Sonoma County composite that was done

354
00:23:28.349 --> 00:23:33.490
in 1975. Napa County had their own composite, and it

355
00:23:33.509 --> 00:23:34.710
looked nothing like the others.

356
00:23:35.609 --> 00:23:36.329
Who was this.

357
00:23:36.250 --> 00:23:44.279
Mysterious man in this composite? This is Jack's oldest biological son, Denny.

358
00:23:45.089 --> 00:23:46.670
I remember reading the letter that he had sent his

359
00:23:46.690 --> 00:23:50.349
dad from Vietnam. The letter ended with, Dad, you would

360
00:23:50.369 --> 00:23:52.930
love it over here. It's hunting season all year long.

361
00:23:57.990 --> 00:24:00.849
By March of 2001, I was fed up with the

362
00:24:00.910 --> 00:24:04.619
answers I was getting from different law enforcement agencies regarding

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00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:08.700
Jack's involvement in the Zodiac case. So I decided I

364
00:24:09.819 --> 00:24:11.680
should call him just to see what he had to say.

365
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:15.259
But before I called him, I had to find a

366
00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:17.279
way to make him feel comfortable about talking to me

367
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.599
about his past. So what I did was, I told

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00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.380
him I discovered who he was, and I wanted to

369
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.000
write a book. But it wouldn't be published until he

370
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.519
was dead. And he agreed to give me the information.

371
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:36.630
You know what I mean? I wouldn't want to... Well,

372
00:24:38.369 --> 00:24:41.990
after it's written as fiction, and after I'm gone.

373
00:24:44.069 --> 00:24:46.180
Uh for some days i don't think.

374
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:46.980
It'll be long.

375
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:51.119
Some days i feel like it'll be a long.

376
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:55.140
Time 20 years from now huh yeah right right.

377
00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:59.029
I i understand i don't want to.

378
00:24:59.009 --> 00:25:01.529
Play anything out there that's going to bring a prosecution

379
00:25:01.549 --> 00:25:04.369
before you're gone you know that's not my intention you

380
00:25:04.390 --> 00:25:07.289
know yeah i just you know i just pick myself

381
00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:10.700
in the answer not not You know, just listen to

382
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.279
you closer because I never in my years thought that,

383
00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:15.380
you know.

384
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:20.200
Most of the things I could deny and they have

385
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:20.799
no proof.

386
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:22.829
Right, it must be like circumstantial.

387
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:23.400
Yeah.

388
00:25:23.529 --> 00:25:23.829
Right.

389
00:25:25.109 --> 00:25:25.430
Right.

390
00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:28.349
I'm not too worried about it.

391
00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:36.170
It's what the people I know would think.

392
00:25:36.690 --> 00:25:37.390
Right, right.

393
00:25:38.859 --> 00:25:40.920
I see what you're saying.

394
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:44.450
Yeah, if it was a known fact, it was me.

395
00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:16.829
On March 13th, 1971, Zodiac mailed this letter to the

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00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:23.029

Zodiac: The Real Story by Dennis Kaufman

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