Zodiac Killer and Jack Case Summary

0:00 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Road, Jack Finding the Zodiac. Today, we have Nolan del Campbell with us. I'd like to welcome him to the show. Good morning, everybody, Good morning. I'm kind of excited. This is where we're going to put together all that information that we've learned so far about this killer kind of hopefully weed out I think some of the so called facts that the Internet would like us to believe. And at the same time, we're not able to exclude Jack at this point, so we're going to continue with his attributes after we do the summary of the Zodiac information. I'm excited. How about you?

1:36 I am too. Yeah, all right, So basically I'm gonna throw up this PowerPoint presentation so everybody can see what's going on here. That way you can pause it, go back and read it if you need to it a later time. Is that coming up there? It is? All right? So summary of the Zodiac, descriptions and evidence in the cases. I'm going to take us actually as back as far as Edwards and Domingos in nineteen sixty two, because I think it's very important that you established this EMO that seems to be circulating around these crimes. So Edwards and Domingos was a remote lovers lane type murder. Once again, the gun that was used was a twenty two caliber. The AMMO that was used was a super ex Winchester Western long Rifle. They did find military affiliation boots, these wingwalker boots sized ten and a half at the scene of the crime, and that there were precut rope pieces shorter than three feet. They did indicate that they believed that Linda had to tie up Robert and then Robert tie up Linda, which we already are very familiar with that in the Lake Berryessa case. But I wanted to be able to show that this is a running mo. Now there was also fire attached to this particular crime. So the suspects stacked the bodies on top of each other in a lean to and tried to set them on fire.

2:55 They found the matches the attempt to set the fire, but it did not match. On the Swindles murder in nineteen sixty four, the gun used again as a twenty two caliber um. There is a purportedly the wallet is taken, but this is not a robbery. I also believe this is the case where the watch is possibly linked to Sherry Joe Bates was taken. There is a military affiliation. Again, this was a twenty two long rifle. And then I'm I'm pretty sure that the AMMO, though I could not find that information was consistent with the super Axe Winchester Um brand, which again had been tracked back to Vandenberg Air Force Base, which is another military affiliation. So the or military or current military Swindle, Yes, yes, Swindle was actively in the Navy at that point in time. And this that was close to the San Diego correct well, the other one was more central coast, not far from Santa Barbara, I believe, act I want to say Gavota, somewhere in that area. There's actually a slew of crimes in the Gabiota area, which case they had just hemmed up the Golden State killer Joseph DeAngelo over some of those Gabiota murders. So I wonder how they're going to play into the presentation that I have, since I had initially thrown them into the pot thinking that there's a possibility that they are consistent with the same killer. We'll see now in Sherry Joe Bates there was a knife that was used, and

4:28 of course I have all these methods are in red so that we can see by gun by rope, by fire, by knife, all the things that we're going to hear about in the future from the Zodiac in his Halloween card. So basically Sherry Joe Bates was a knife that was used half inch to three quarter inch blade handle. There had been evidence that a handle piece of this knife was left behind at the scene of the crime. I think this is why there were two men back with flashlights searching after the murder was completed. That was witnessed by one of the neighbors in the area. There was a watch that was found, and now law enforcement attributed that to being the suspect's watch because it had been ripped off his hand in that fight with Cherry Joe Bates, but there may be a chance that this is that cross connection that we're looking at, and we're going to talk about how those work out.

5:16 He did make a reference to time and short, which again is black dahlia, and the hair that was found clutched in Cherry Joe Bates's hand was a reddish brown dark to light blonde. I kind of wanted to cover that just for a second, because that two tone hair is kind of what we heard about from Officer Folk in the Stein murder. He indicated that it appeared to be a lighting issue, but he thought it was grain underneath and then a reddish brown on top. I believe we're going to cover that here in a minute. But he also saw this two tone effect, so I thought that that was interesting how they went from reddish brown to dirk to light blonde.

5:56 In Sharry Joe Bates, that knife, the bladeside sounds so small. It's amazing that he would murder someone with a blade that small. It is a very small blade, and I'm going I will show you one that was found in Jack's possession, and half the handle was missing and the tip is definitely broken on that knife, which is something that he indicated that he broke the knife off inside of her. Now, of course law enforcement reports Barry and go back and forth. But I would think it would be awfully hard and autopsy to miss a tip of a blade. Even if it was microscopic, it's still going to show up on X rays. So, and I don't know why he would lie about that in his letters, since when he is taking credit for these crimes and talking about these crimes, he's delivering information that only the killer would know, which is how they pegged him for the letters to begin with, well to continue in Sherry Joe Bates, there was also the military affiliation with the wing walker boots sized ten and a half, and there was a use of teletype paper. Let's remind you Jack, radio operator. Teletype is used at this point in time in military governments, newspapers, any type of media industry where getting information on demand is pretty much the thing that they're using this teletype four and Jack owning one, and we see him fixing it in nineteen sixty two. We know that he's right there in the realm of being able to have had the paper that they're talking about in regards to the confession letter for Sherry Joe Bates. He also made phone calls

7:29 to law enforcement and he sent in letters. Now, when they came back and said that they matched this to Edwards and Dominga's nineteen sixty two, it must be because they also received phone calls and letters. That's my thought, right, I mean, what else did they use? Wasn't And they're also intriguing about Sherry Joe Bates's father, some sort of weird Yes, he would. He worked for the Navy as well, and he worked I believe in one of one of the labs in the Bay Area that I want to say Nevado, but that actually works on the bombs like or at least that was the information I was given when Harriet had done a search on him. Right, So where did I go there? Okay, so phone calls, some letters. Now we have the Lake Herman Road evidence. The gun was used a twenty two caliber, the Ammo again a super Ax. The vehicles that were actually witnessed in witness statements from the reports are a white Chevy and Paula, which this is probably where the author that is blaming Door for having been the Zodiac killer out of Fairfield had done a three D view and found what he claimed to be a white Chevy and Paula in his driveway. The man actually owned a light blue Chevy Nova, so his connection to paul Door saying that he was the Zodiac killer because of this vehicle that he was able to see in that view is not true. The other car, white Chevy and

9:03 Paula, was seen twice by two different witnesses, and then the blue Valiant, which was somebody who bothered another person who just happened to report that experience that night because of the news that broke on the murder. In Mike Majoe's case, he survived this attack, and he indicated a white male twenty six to thirty years of age, but he only caught a side profile of him. He said he was short, about five foot eight inches, one hundred and ninety five to two hundred pounds, real heavy set, not blubbery, but real beefy. He had short, curly hair, light brown, almost blonde. So again we're going back to this, there is definitely some consistency there. The clothing at this time was blue short sleeve shirt as reported by Mike Majoe. The gun that was used this time as different. It's a nine millimeter luger. The suspect called the police department. Again in regards to the US, the amma that was used was Western and it was written in a letter by the Zodiac in order to take credit and prove that he was the killer of these kids. The problem here with Mike Majoe is there's no mentions of glasses, which we have clearly established that the Zodiac killer wears glasses, so he may not have seen absolutely as much as he claims to have seen. And then he goes on to id six foot fall ball blubbery two hundred and fifty pound Arthur Lee Allen, which isn't even consistent with his statement at all. So we know that, so we know their phone calls and

10:35 letters in this case too. Then we make it to Lake Barriessa with Brian Hartnow and we have a suspect description of white male twenty to three thirty years of age by voice concept, which we're going to get to the voice concept. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but um he said he had a drawl that was moderate and sound sounded uneducated, but not illiterate. At five foot five ft nine to six feet tall, two hundred to two hundred and fifty pounds, stocky build, stomach hanging over trousers. Well, he basically just described Jack. At that point. He claims seeing brown hair seen in the eyehole, which again that could be subject to light. So if he is standing over the top of him and the hood is shading that hair, it may very well be a reddish ground. But he's just seen the dark of the color because there's so much light out at this point in time that's surrounding them. So he also stated that the man walked with the lumber.

11:35 The clothing was a win windbreaker blue or black, dark pleated slacks blue or black, which were old fashioned. That he was wearing gloves. This is interesting because in the Paul Stein murder there are gloves left behind and this was heard by mister Archie White, who was one of the first responders on the scene and overheard Brian hart Now telling another responder that he was wearing that the suspect was wearing gloves. He was also wearing wing walker boots ten and a half m R or D military affiliation. Again, Now, the information given to mister White when he arrived on the scene was the Emma was that he wanted money and car keys. He was an ex con from Colorado going to Mexico. Um, he says, I have to tie you up and going to have to stab you. So that those are interesting statements, have to as in he's hired for a job. It's kind of how I felt, right Nolan. Yes, I mean I have to I have to tell whether it was his demons talking to him or whether it was good point, good point. Um. He also used rope, small rubber coated clothesline that was pre cut to two and a half to three feet um. Cecilia again tied up Brian just like we heard in the Dominus Edwards case. He did have a gun on him on his right hip, which was a Brian thought to be a forty five caliber semi automatic. He had used a knife in this particular crime that was contained in a wooden sheath on the left hip.

13:07 They stated it was homemade with a hardwood handle with two brass rivets and one inch cotton tape wrapped around the handle. The blade again was thin three quarters to an inch sharpened on both sides, approximately nine to twelve inches long. He claimed combat style or we get this whole idea of a bayonet, which they've tried to, you know, portray to everybody, But clearly the description of this knife does not describe a bayonet. Would you think? No, I mean to me, A yeah, yeah, yeah, and probably all black. I mean, I just I feel like bayonets are not like these sparkly shiny colors, at least in my mind. He also had a black cloth hooded ceremonial style mask that was square on top and came down to the shoulders and over the chest almost to the waist, with a son zodiac symbol at about the chest. Now, like the techs Arcana fan, there was a hood evidently involved, So there's that cross connection there. Maybe that's what he was attempting to tie it into. Terry b had made a comment that the fact that he didn't kill Brian Hartnell was probably preplanned in order that in order to be able to promote the fear behind the mask, which I'm kind of leaning towards and agreeing with almost because Hartnell says that the only way he stopped stabbing him was that he played dead. Well, even if you laid there as still as you could be, you're still going to be breathing.

14:31 Why did the Zodiac allow him to continue to breathe and not finish him off. So maybe Terry B's right about that. Sorry, go ahead, yeah, I think he is. Yeah he Brian Hartnew said he was wearing clip on glasses. The Zodiac wrote on the car door calling out the other murders he also called in this murder. What I did learn is that the suspect via had five and a half inch treadwidth on the tires and a fifty two inch between the wheel span, so this should identify some type of vehicle. I started to work on this and I haven't gotten fully into it yet to determine what the wheelbase of this vehicle is based on that fifty two inches, But they did obtain fingerprints and palm prints at the crime scene and at the phone booth. Cecilia Shephard actually had an opportunity to give her version of what occurred, and she stated he was a man with a hood and his face was covered. He was wearing black pants, so this is the first time we're hearing instead of a dark navy boot or a black she was very very adamant obviously about these black pants, and for it being a female. I take her thoughts on color a little bit more serious. I'm sorry, no offense, no one, but typically emails what's that I'm color blind? Well, and many people don't even not to differentiate between the colors, so they

16:03 just say dark, you know, could have been black, could have been blue. She adamantly stated they were black pants. The man asked for money, but he didn't take any, so she's aware that he has made this claim. And my kind of guess here at this point, him asking for the wallet and keys, this is the message that is due to be relayed, and so maybe it isn't actually physical evidence he's leaving at the crime scenes as much as he's leaving a victim alive to tell the story of what occurred. He asked for wallet and keys, but look what happens in paul Stein. He actually takes those two items. So there's a connectivity there, he says. She says also, he was wearing glasses with dark clip on sunglasses over the hood, so she's the one that stated that he actually had glasses on underneath. And obviously, by virtue that the clip on glasses would need something to clip onto, there would naturally have to be glasses underneath that hood in order for those clip ons to clip on. She stated he had a black pistol. Now we're going to get into the witnesses impossible suspects at this state, because we've heard what the victims have to say. But there was some extremely interesting information coming out. A doctor R. Clifton and his sixteen year old son, David Lee Clifton, were at about six thirty pm north of the park headquarters, about eight tenths of a mile from the crime scene.

17:21 Witnessed a white male five ten, heavy build, dark trousers and a long sleeves, dark shirt with red in it, nothing in his hands, walking north along hill area between the beach and the road. When David cited him, the man turned around and left in a southerly direction up the hill. This is another thing I kind of want to track to see which direction in regards to the crime breed that this man shot often And we don't know if he didn't just go off to a car. Clearly if there are treadmarks and there is the cast being made of tire prints at the scene, this man was closed by his vehicle and was mobile and then actually showed up to the crime scene at Lake Bury Essa in his own vehicle. Now, does this tread pattern, in this wheelbase pattern match a Chevy Impaula or this late model Chevy as being indicated in regards to this second suspect, I don't know.

18:14 I would have thought that that would have been something they could have sorted out way back then. The dean of the three girls who witnessed this person in the light blue Chevy actually makes a very interesting report, he says the girl. He calls the sheriff first to say that the sheriff would like to should interview these girls, and he says, between three and four thirty pm, two miles north of A and w Roup your stand on Knoxville Road. The three gals from college were there. They witnessed a mail approximately forty years of age, six feet tall. Now that's a huge difference, because the girls in their statements all or somewhere around twenty eight to thirty years. Why did the dean say forty And was this something that should have been corrected and were they actually seeing jack or yeah, was it the same person? You don't know exactly. I mean five ten six foot is fairly relative. Forty years is a huge difference. And where does that number come up. I mean, I just can't see the dean making that mistake when the other three girls are all reporting twenty eight to thirty years of age. I might explain their description of them as well, you see someone at the lake. Yeah, I'm going into that, But this report came in first, so I'm going chronologically with how these reports came in. So these one of these three girls are all These three girls went to the dean of their school. The dean of their school then reported to the sheriff. This is what they said.

19:41 He was forty years of age and six feet tall. So I don't know how it got changed to twenty eight thirty unless they were trying to force fit that age bracket into the voice concept that Brian Hartnell had stated that twenty six twenty what did he say, twenty to thirty years of age by voice concepts? So were they trying to make that information conform I don't know, But the dean reported forty years old. Miss Linda Lee, one of the first teenagers or college students, indicated a male approximately thirty years of age, six feet tall, two hundred pound, stocky, builled, straight, dark hair, neatly combed, medium colored skin, round face, and fairly nice looking. Clothing was black short sleeve sweater shirt and dark blue slacks, so there is some similarities there in the color of the clothing. The vehicle was a late model sky blue Chevrolet. Tail lights were long rather than round, which is how they discovered it was more of a late model nineteen sixty six or newer vehicle. And but they did not report glasses, so in their reports I found nothing that talked about glasses. The second college student, miss Joanne. She reports a male approximately twenty eight years of age, six feet to six foot two, two hundred and twenty five pounds, well built, black hair, possibly styled, parted on the left, round eyes, thin lips, medium nose, straight eyebrows, small ears, rather nice looking.

21:08 Again, these are not describing the composite that we see in the presidio, so I tend to believe that we're dealing with two different people here. Clothing his black short sleeved sweater shirt bunched up in the front with white tshirt showing in the back, and dark trousers. Again, she reports the same type of vehicle, only she says that it is sky blue, and she stated that the man walked from south to north. Miss Linda, which is the second Linda in this actual sighting only says male vehicle nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty seven, light blue Chevrolet with California plates. It's a two horsedan and tail lights rather long rather than round. Rear window is tinted quite dark.

21:52 So, now, if we go back and remember what I said about that blue ice blue Chevy that Nora had, not only was the rear window not tinted, but it was a four door not a two door. Or maybe ah, I got myself confused. Either way, it's just more proof that that wasn't the vehicle that was there at the crime. At Slodiac descriptions go on with the four teenagers and the paul Stein murder. They seen the suspect in the front seat, mid passenger side, with the victim slumped partially over his lap. He appeared to be searching his pockets, appeared to be wiping fingerprints from interior of the cab, leaning over the victim to the driver's compartment.

22:33 He exited the passenger side door and wiped it clean of prints, and then went to the driver's side door and proceeded to wipe the exterior of the left door area. Here he obviously knows that he's left fingerprints behind, and he's clearly trying to clean up left walking north on Cherry Street toward the presidio. He was described by the teenagers as a white male adult, thirty five to forty five years of age, five foot ten, one hundred and ninety pounds, paunchy stomach, crew cut, reddish blonde hair. So here we've got the reddish statement again. We've got this blonde statement again. The clothing was a navy blue or black parka type jacket, dark baggy trousers again, just like we heard in Lake Berriessa. Eyeglasses with plastic frames, and we got Jack over here actually with two sets of clear frames. Basically, these ones have got a little bit of a brown tint to them at the top, but definitely clear at the bottom, so you can actually see his face.

23:30 I think he was a little egotistical and probably narcissistic, no doubt. Now SFBD actually puts out three different descriptions in their bolo. They say white male, early forties, heavy build, all right, early forties. They went with an older age automatically, I mean thirty five to forty five. They just smacked him into the forties, heavy build, crew cut, reddish blonde hair. On October thirteenth, when they put out the initial composite, it was white male, now twenty five to thirty years of age? What the heck like? You're twenty five to thirty isn't even a match to the thirty five to forty that the teenager said. But also didn't Zodiac say that when he does these crimes, he kind of disguises himself absolutely. I believe he absolutely knows the countermeasures to make up dying of hair, changing his glasses, making himself appear different, maybe even facial apparatuses. I have no idea.

24:29 He seems to be well with it now. They also changed the height from six feet to five eight five nine, crew cut, reddish brown hair. The supplementing wanted poster that comes out on October eighteenth changes again says white male thirty five to forty five. Now he's approximately five eight. He just keeps getting shorter in the progression, which makes no sense because we're gonna hear what forecast to say, and they say short brown hair, possibly red tint, heavy build. Either way, this reddish brown theme has been coming up since Sherry Joe Bates clothing dark brown trousers, navy blue or black jacket, dark navy blue or black Parket type jacket, and should have met It says should have many blood stains on his person, and they're correct. This is what I have discussed with Terry, is that there should have been definitely some blood on this man as he's walking down the presidio. Either way. In all three it says he's wearing eyeglasses, then it says he's wearing heavy rim glasses, and then it says wears glasses. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm just gonna roll with the composite. The composite shows basically a clear foot frame. Go back, basically a clear frame right over here in the bottom right hand corner. So we're gonna roll with. It was likely that these and these were circus. So this is nineteen seventy one for Jack right here.

25:48 So we're only talking a short year or so after. And we know with health insurance you can only get your new glasses what is it once every two years. It may have been even farther in between. Back then. The evidence that was collected at Paul Stein's murder was a gun or well as ammo used nine millimeter semi automatic, possibly in new model Browning. The ammo was a Winchester Western and two portions of the victim's shirt. So, you guys, I finally answered this question. It does appear that he took enough of Paul Stein's shirt, as you can see down here at the bottom there's a rather large chunk, not simply this one thin piece that we see here in this letter or in this picture. We can see that there are other pieces to the backside of the shirt that is missing. So the killer mailed one piece in with the Paul Stein letter, and I found that he mailed the other one in with the bus bomb. I believe it was so they get it. We do see a second piece, and I'm glad I finally answered that question. There were fingerprints found in this particular crime. It tells Paul Stein to drive towards Washington and Laurel area or near Park or Presidio near Maple Street, but he stops at Cherry Street and Washington. Victim's wallet, id and taxi keys are actually taken. So again this is where I say he made the statement to Brian Hartnell, I want your walleting your keys, but he doesn't take them. And then in this particular case, he is taking extra trime at the crime scene to rifle through paul Stein's pockets to obtain these things. And obviously he's reaching over into the driver's compartment because he's probably

27:18 taking the keys out of the ignition, would be my thought. Yeah. Now, and now they said the meter was still running, so I would think that the car would have to be turned on or no, maybe that thing runs if you're just sitting and waiting and not running the car. Yeah, because once the keys are taken out, the meter should stop. M wow. And so I don't know where they're two sets keys, but he actually he took one set, so I don't know. Well, maybe one set that was in the vehicle that kept the vehicle running in the meter running was for the cab, and that that actual key isn't literally on paul Stein's key ring. Maybe paul Stein's key ring that he took is a one for his house or a you know a multitude of other things. I keep some of Mikey's separate one from the next. Yeah, it's hard, Yeah, officers folk, he does a report on eleven twelve of sixty nine, saying suspect fitting the description of the Zodiac Killer was walking easterly on Jackson Street and then turned north on Maple Street. Did not stop because Bolo was for Negro mail. He was a white male, thirty five to forty five years of age, about five foot ten, one hundred and eighty to two hundred pounds, medium to heavy build, crew cut, light colored hair, possibly grain in the rear. May have been lighting that caused this effect. Dark blue waist length zipper type jacket, navy or royal glue, elastic cuffs and waistband zipper part way up. Brown wool pants pleaded type baggy in the rear,

28:52 so they also commented rust brown. He may have been wearing low cut shoes, not in a hurry, walked with a shuffling, so that matches the lumber that Ryan Hart now stated. Slightly bent forward with his head down. They guessed Welsh interest ancestry possibly and stated that eyeglasses with plastic frames. So now we're back to that plastic frame thing. We actually have it in the officer's own words, eyeglasses plastic frames. So some of the other consistencies that fall in line here for the final summary here is that their areas of remote lever lanes or hangouts, the military size ten and a half wingwalker boots are consistent. There's a time theme that's occurring, and the Zodiac suspect uses the headlights of his car to obscure himself, his vehicle and his approach with victims one through four. Suspect also uses a flashlight taped to the barrel of his gun. Tape becomes a theme in a later communication. Suspect uses super X and Western Ammal and the victims. He uses three different types of guns, a twenty two and nine mill and a reported scene of a forty five caliber the nine mil Luger versus the nine mill Browning. Browning claims by VALEOPD that a J. C. Higgins Model eighty or High Standard Model one oh one was used and bullets were super ex copper coated long rifle by Western just recently sold as early as nineteen sixty seven, and the bullet has a right hand

30:23 twist or a clockwise twist with six lands and grooves, which is called a six and six. And I wanted to compare that to other reports to see if those types of things are established in things like tech Sarcana, Eldridge and Hoogan, Black Dahlia, Swindles, Edwards and Demigus. I mean, on down the line, the firing pin impressions are consistent with Jack's twenty two rifle, which is not I believe what they wanted to say. It was the J. C. Higgins and we talked about that much early in the presentation. From Stephen Dooher's book. We have fingerprints and palm prints. He walked with a Cheffley lober lumber. We have the knife by gun by rope by fire. He did make a statement that he was an escape from Deer Lodge Mountains, Montana State Prison and he killed a guard per Gracemiss book. Now I want to break apart Gracemiss book because the statement to the rescuer, mister white by Heartnell was the suspect claim he was an ex con from Colorado.

31:19 That is a very very much different state. Obviously, Colorado and Montana don't sound anything like. So I don't know if gray Smith was just again fantasizing in that part of his book, but I know that Jack was newly separated from his second wife, who her father actually worked lived in Colorado and worked for the prison system. Now he's wearing a black hooded mask, cloth covering the entire head and shoulders, coming down almost to the suspect's waist. The victim states on the front of a four cornered type mask, similar to paperbag in style, was a symbol. The symbol described as white, approximately three and a half inches in diameter, with the symmetrical cross on the islets of the mask was a pair of clip on glasses. Zodiac Killer made phone calls, he wrote letters. We talked about the gloves. There's no property taken.

32:13 Even when a wallet is taken, it's not supposedly because it's a robbery. The female was stabbed in both breasts and growing. This is kind of a cross connection back to Sherry Joe Bates, Black Dahlia and the lipstick killings. Zodiac Killer wrote three or more letters at one time in many of these serial killings, and he wrote the words himself, cipher and code. The no address letter matches up with Jack, who has no address at this point in time. He's living on a converted bus that he's made out made into a home. Or My assumption is that he got this boss from his brother in law and or his sister in law and brother who had it as early as nineteen sixty three. Vehicles witnessed was December nineteen sixty eight at the Lake Herman road attack. Two raccoon hunters witness to sixty white nineteen sixties white Chevy and paula four door hardtop. Another couple had a strange experience with a possible Blue Valiant, and there was a second sighting of a Chevy and paula buy a sheep herder. And on fourth of July nineteen sixty nine the no address letter where Zodiac himself admits that a male negro forty to forty five, shabbily dressed, seeing him get into a brown car. So I am still searching those cars. Suspect was on his way to Mexico. We've heard this in many of the other cases. He's having fun or a good time. He wants to show them that this is a theme for him. He references movies, books and newspapers. He has a theme of Jack Rabbits and Gratio marks and a knowledge of how to conceal the identity fingerprints DNA and as you stated,

33:44 Nolan, his identity. Now, going back to the telephone call. On October twenty second, nineteen sixty nine, the Dumb Bar Show receives a call from the Zodiac Killer. It is denied that the person who calls in is the Zodiac because Hartnell says himself that the Zodiac's voice was wasn't a match because it was older and deeper than the one heard in the series. So and then we hear a husky voice is printed in the newspaper, So we're again not talking about somebody who is I think, as as Hartnell stated twenty six to thirty years of age, we're now talking about somebody who sounds a bit older. It was suggested that the caller be referred to as Sam during the conversation, which I thought was maybe even an interesting dig for Son of Sam Murders, where he claims that he was part of a group too.

34:37 Right, Yes, that there's a book Ultimately Evil. It basically says that Birkwoods was part of a Satanic cult and he wasn't the only killer. There were several killers in the cult, right, And I think the Colt thing is just to give it some sensationalism, but likely just a group of stupid mad people, Doctor st What's that they were Satan worshippers with Lincoln to other Satan worshippers and other parts of the United States? Gotcha? And North Dakota? Oh well, I don't have anything on North Dakota, but Los Angeles for sure. Doctor Donald Lund was a psychiatrist at the atascan Aero State Hospital, so I don't find this to be too coincidental that he was hired by Hurst to work with Patty Hurst after her abduction and purported mind watching. He also had some issue with herb Kane. So the fact that Donald Lund was actively a doctor I believe at the NAPA State Hospital at the time when this call came in is kind of an interesting connection there. The victim thought suspect was possibly twenty to thirty years age by voice concept Buddy later then says much older and deeper than the one that's heard on the series of telephone calls.

35:53 Now this actually goes into KGOTV, so I put some information together on that. We can see that the call sign for like a Ham radio operator. KGO Radio's former owner is General Electric, and we know that Jack worked for General Electric as well in nineteen sixty two. In nineteen sixty three, they come up actually a lot in this. They're the ones that bought the Ramsey's business for pennies on the dollar after he got caught up in the middle of all the legal issues with his daughter's death. In nineteen sixty nine, a man called San Francisco Police, identifying himself as a serial killer known as the Zodiac, and agreed to call Dunbar Darie Am San Francisco's live broadcast if either Attorney Melbourne Bellai or f Lee Bailey, and we know how we feel about those attorneys, right, those are the world's attorneys. So basically the let's see Dunbar was born in Dearborn, Michigan. That takes us back to some Michigan routes. He actually was working at the radio station for Fort Riley in Kansas. He later worked a rock DJ at w x y Z, and in Detroit, at WSU in New Orleans where he was also a station manager, and in Chicago before moving west to work for KGO in nineteen sixty three.

37:13 So he came in in nineteen sixty three to the California area, and it says in addition to his radio work, He also hosted a popular AM San Francisco morning talk program on KGO TV channel seven for many years, beginning in nineteen sixty five. So again we have that San Francisco connection, and the killer chooses to call that radio station, of all places. This is where we get back into Jack now. So we want to hear a little bit from him. But I'm going to start out this conversation here with Dennis is calling Jack. He says, Hello, Jack, what is going on? Jack said, just sitting here thinking about how the hell I could get to the Bitter Root Mountains. Dennis said, I know the feeling of not having a vehicle. Well, I was calling you because I wanted to talk to you about something, but I wanted to let you know that it would stay just between you and I. Jack said, well, I'm here or here I am. Dennis said, well, I think I have discovered something very interesting, and I think you know what I'm talking about, don't you?

38:09 Jack said, Yeah, I do. Dennis said, Jack, I will say this much, you have become the most interesting person I've ever met. I won't hold any of it against you. I'm probably the only one that understands. And Jack says, what are you going to do write a book? Dennis. That's exactly what I was thinking about doing. And Jack says, We're going to queue up what he says and then I will follow. I know that that was extremely hard to hear. Is very low. I'm going to tell you what he does say is I haven't cut anybody's throat lately. I got tired of doing it. So we're going to replay that audio one more time he got tired of doing and he says such an interesting statement. Um. Either way, that goes on to continue with the conversation, which we have already covered this back in the beginning of the presentation.

39:08 So I'm going to let anybody else they can pause and read this and see how this goes down. UM. But it's very interesting to note that, UM that Dennis actually comes right out and asks him if he is the zodiac, and Jack says, let me see what time it is, instead of saying no, or you've got it wrong, or I'm responsible for this, let me see what time it is is his actual um statement. So there is let's see, there is more conversation in which case Dennis is now trying to talk with Jack about writing the book. And what that would mean. So we're going to queue up that second audio and we're going to hear from Jack again. Uh, and I'm gone, uh, which I'm saying, I don't think it'll be long. I feel like it'll be a long tony years from now round yeah right right, I I anything. I don't want to play anything out there that's gonna bring your prostitution before you're going, Yeah, it's not my intention, you know, I don't you know, I didn't take myself and the answer that'll not you know, just listen to you closer, because I've never love something that you know I can and uh, they have no room if it's gonna circumstances. Yeah right right, I'm you're

40:46 worried about it. It's uh, anyone the people I know would right right, I understand. Yeah. Wow, those are some heavy statements. So this literally sounds like somebody having a casual conversation about, um, maybe they stole a wallet or something. Right, are you there noting? Oh? Yeah, why? I just know it's way more. It's that he's admitting the zodiac. Well I know that that's what he's admitting, because that's the ending of this this particular phone call. But it it like he's so nonchalant about it, so just matter of fact that there's no denial, there's no um, what are you talking about there? I mean he literally just rolls right on along with this, as natural as any other Sunday conversation would go absolutely crazy. Yeah, well that brings us into the evidence of Jack.

41:55 Now we did see that um at one point in time, the cleft chin was actually removed out of the composite, which I think has kind of been a key characteristic that was identifying obviously Jack. We can see the cleft right here. We can see it right here, very large, broad wide chin. The physical description on this site says approximately five eight to five ten and hight curly brown or light reddish brown hair, worn in a crew cut, wearing horn rimmed glasses, which we can see over here. These are the different styles of horn rim glasses. Of course, colors can vary as well. We have some that are full frame, we have some that are partial frame, and Jack had actually both. He describes the same type of clothing, a medium or slightly stocky build. One survivor describes the zodiac as having that odd gait, so of course that's back to that lumber and the loping walk. Jack did have per dennis or one leg shorter than the other due to a back injury that he had surgery for and that caused him to walk with that lumber or lope. So Jack looks to have preferred light colored or clear horn rim glasses. And this is a picture of him at nineteen in nineteen sixty nine at age forty one, so fitting right in line um composits given by witness that included a police officer. Now I ask everybody judge for yourself. The composites are obviously dead on. But Jack stats in nineteen sixty nine was five foot ten and a half inches two hundred and twenty five pounds

43:27 with a paunch at forty one years of age. In nineteen seventy two. We got about five minutes here. It looks like so his shoe size is match each other on the bottom, match each other, but going down they look like different people a little bit exactly. Yeah, yes, yes, this one is nineteen seventy three and this one is nineteen seventy one, so it's a two years. He's not okay, right right, He did seem to gained some weight by nineteen seventy one seventy two. He was fairly heavy. He looked to me to be well heavier than two hundred and twenty five pounds. Jack was said to have reddish brown hair, but I've seen him dye his hair, so it may have been a die as well. Handwriting, linguistics, and graphology supports that Jack and the Zodiac Killer are one and the same. Jack has lived in all the areas discussed in these cases and has family, and many of them Riverside Berkeley, Alamito, San Francisco, Santa Clara, San Jose, South Lake Tahoe, Sacramento, Nayak, Mount Okam, Roseville, Texas, Minnesota, and his mother was in Chicago, Illinois. At one point, Jack watched his father shoot a man in the face over a liquor bottle when he was a young kid during Prohibition. His dad may very well have been running liquor as a long haul truck driver as well. Jack watched a tractor turned over on his and pin his father, and Jack walked away, not warning anyone. His father died three days later, and that changed Jack's life. Jack believed he was the man of the

44:58 house, but his mother felt other wise and Jack took to the road at fourteen computer technology. He was highly trained from three different militaries that he has served during an era of codes and ciphers. Jack was already a marksman growing up on a farm as a small game hunter watching animals die, but he acquired a military qualification with the M one carbine rifle, achieving expert status at one hundred and eighty meters or two hundred yards while he was in the Air Force. Jack war sized ten and a half would have added access to these older wing walker boots or military shoes when he was an air aircraft supply sergeant in the US Air Force. Jack also bootlegged liquor during the Prohibition when he was a teenager and avidly traveled to trains, making it to twenty eight states in a two year period. By this time he was seventeen years old.

45:47 Jack was also known to kill family animals on a whim. Here is his Ham radio operations. We see that he had a license from nineteen fifty five through seventy one, which encompasses those years. As we talked about in regards to Sherry Joe Bates and that teletype paper that was used. There's information from Moonlight on an underground radio in journalism group during this time as well, that is operating out of Mayor Island or some type of a cryptography type get up in Valleo. During the reign of the Zodiac and Zach, Jack also owned that teletype machine, which again used in ham radio, media, government, mob and anywhere information is needed fast. Dennis did find the Hood in the PA system in two thousand and eight, well after Jack's passing, so to have found this was obviously a shock and surprise. Dew Hurston wants to liken the Zodiac symbol is a Roccurian cross that is actually attributed to the likes of Freemasons Alister Crowley Cross of the Well, there's your that cult connection again, Alister Crowley Cross of the Secret Order of the Golden Dawn, which was adapted by l Ron Hubbard. Which is the scientology side of it that I want to get into to just a little bit. And of course we have the hypnosis symbol that Jack used, which is definitely consistent with the Zodiac's profile.

47:08 They did indicate that Zodiac was perversely in love with his mother, and Jack had always had a strange relationship with his mother and Jack had his mother's first name flow but tattooed on his right arm beneath the heart, and Jack told Dennis she was the only woman worthy of being tattooed on him. Zodiac had some knowledge. We're definitely how many more do I have here? Several? All right, we're gonna have to pick that up where I left off, where I'm just gonna have to go, well, somebody, I still got one minute, hold on one second here. I'm gonna fly through these because most of the stuff I've actually talked about. So we have the hypnosis symbol. People can pause and read these slides as we go. The pilot raiser pen was consistent with the Paul Stein writings. We did turn over some very used pens from Jack's belongings. That was in eight ten with that broken knife from Sherry Joe Bates that we talk about. He also Dennis also found eaton bond paper in Jack's story shed and there is a letter from Charles Terrence saying that his father carried precut lengths of rope shorter than three feet in his vehicle at all time. That we're not long enough to tie anything down. We do have this again. We ruled out the nineteen seventy two Stevens Creek, Ice, Blue Chevy, and Paula, but we have interesting who holds a gun to someone's head that's just absolutely insane. Okay, I thought I could blast through it. We got through the cars, I still need to do some work on So we're gonna come back with our next episode and discuss what we have going on in the way of communications that are starting to come out.

48:38 We're going to be taking a look at the poison pen or the dripping pen card and the three forty cipher. So we will see you guys next week. I'm sorry I had to cut you off, Nolan, but we'll pick back up where we left off on the next episode. Okay, aloud and so so loud.