Aug. 21, 2026

Evidence Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. aka Zodiac Killer and More

Evidence Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. aka Zodiac Killer and More
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Finishing with the political agencies notified in Amerithrax, and another kook of the Zodiac Killer case. I will cover the evidence that supports Jack is a perfect suspect in the Zodiac Killer crimes and many other unsolved murders wherever he is. Hear from some of the agencies interested in investigating Jack as their culprit, and how SFPD evades and bungles any real investigation into him. Did Jack reveal his identity, and was it still covered up by Tom Voigt and others???

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal, medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services

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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True Seekers and True Crime Junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Road Jack, Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome Nolan Del Campo to the show

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this morning. Good morning.

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Good morning, everybody.

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Again, with the memo, I'm wearing baby blue too, albeit

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not tie-dye. I certainly hope that.

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Lindsay is listening today, or if not going to be

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on here at some point with this as well, we're

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going to listen to the law enforcement audio files again.

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But of course, I always like to start with a

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bit of trash and garbage from research and laundry. So

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we're going to head over to the PowerPoint presentation and

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Just saw this come across the newsfeed yesterday on my

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phone and just literally thought, what the F? Anyways, it

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starts out, FBI seizes former Congressman Eric Swalwell's devices and

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searches his home.

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Five hours ago.

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Yeah.

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Do you know who this is? Yeah.

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He resigned recently because he was actually one of the

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frontrunners for governor of California. And there was a controversy

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over sexual harassment.

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Well, we're going to read this article. I did catch

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the whole.

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At first and. Stay in an office and still. OK,

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your audio is your audio is really bad right.

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Now, Nolan.

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There's Lindsay Mack.

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Okay, we're back.

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Okay, I was out for a second.

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Yes, you were.

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He resigned and he gave up the race for governor.

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Correct.

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And you're still cutting in and out. I don't know

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if you're going to continue having problems or not. But so, yes,

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that that was one of the things that I picked

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up from the article. So I'm going to read the

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article for everybody and then we can discuss thoughts. But

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it says five hours ago, the FBI stopped former U.S.

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Congressman Eric Swalwell.

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In an airport. OK, let's not hello me. Go out

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and come back in. You're having a problem with your computer.

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Are you there, Lindsay?

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Okay, well, we'll continue reading this. The FBI stopped former U.S.

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Congressman.

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Sorry, I had it on mute.

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I'm sorry.

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I was saying, can you hear me? It was like

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a circus. Yes, I can totally hear you now. Okay, perfect.

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It usually automatically unmutes, so that's why I was like, huh?

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Maybe it's the whole thing is messing up.

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They don't want me to do what I'm going to

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do today. That's all.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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So we're talking about this Congressman Eric Swalwell. Have you

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heard of him?

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I don't think so, actually. All right.

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So let me let me read this familiar.

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Let me read this article and then we'll powwow about it.

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The FBI stopped former U.S.

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Congressman Eric Swalwell in an airport and seized his electronic

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devices while also raiding his home.

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Let's see. In Washington, D.C.

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This week or this weekend as part of a federal

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investigation into sexual misconduct allegations against him. After the allegations

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surfaced earlier this year, Swalwell dropped out of California governor's

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race where he was in the lead and gave.

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Up his seat in the House of Representatives.

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He is also under criminal investigation by Manhattan District Attorney's

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Office and Los Angeles Sheriff's Department for accusations of rape

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and sexual assault. Swalwell has in the past denied the

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allegations and his attorney has called them fabricated.

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The BBC has reached out to him for comment.

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These accusations are false, fabricated and deeply offensive, a calculated

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and transparent political hit job, his attorney Sarah Azari said

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around the.

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Time they were first reported.

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Federal agents retrieved Swalwell's devices and searched his home while

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executing a search warrant, according to the BBC's U.S.

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Media partner CBS News.

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Swalwell, 45, has faced allegations from multiple women, including that

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he raped one victim while she was too intoxicated to

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respond and that he.

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Sent women unsolicited nude photographs.

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A high-profile Democrat often seen on cable news criticizing President Trump,

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Swalwell resigned from Congress and ended his bid for California

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governor after the reports emerged and members of the House

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pushed to remove him. The House Ethics Committee launched an

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investigation that ended once Swalwell was no longer a member

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of Congress. The White House released the classified documents from

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a separate FBI investigation Monday that revealed details of his

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alleged relationship with a suspected spy from China over a

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decade ago.

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Wow.

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Details regarding his.

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2015 relationship with Christine Fang were already known, and Swalwell

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never faced any related charges.

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Multiple U.S.

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Media outlets, including CPS News, were told that FBI Director

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Kash Patel was behind a push to release the.

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Files from that investigation. So, very interesting. First off, I

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didn't even know this man was running for governor. But

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that makes sense. Yeah, I didn't know that.

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He was the leading candidate.

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Was he on the Republican side?

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No, Democrat.

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No, he's a Democrat.

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Yeah.

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Because he stopped.

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running.

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Thing is, if you're innocent and you're trying to say, hey,

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I'm innocent, then why do you drop out of the race?

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Exactly.

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Bingo.

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But my point is, because he dropped out, that allowed

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Becerra to gain a ton of momentum, and he ended

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up getting in the runoff.

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In fact, Becerra's favorite now.

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And when they say that.

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He's no longer a member of Congress, why would you

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leave Congress if you're innocent, too?

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Right, exactly.

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Now, let me tell you what I've picked out out

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of that. So we have China in the situation brought up,

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and they always try to bring up China whenever there's

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really not a serious indication to me that we have

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anything serious going on with China. But they love to

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bring China up for distraction and to make us look

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at China rather than Israel always. Second is Cash Patel

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was brought up, and obviously, oh, he went after him.

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He wanted him released.

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Another distraction, oh, we're going to go after this guy,

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but we're not going to mess with the Epstein files anymore.

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We're done with that.

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Bingo.

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You know what I'm saying?

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That's literally what I got out of it.

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This man is obviously being rushed to charges faster than

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Epstein was himself. And we still haven't seen one indictment

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in regards to the people that Epstein serviced.

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So I was shocked over it. But the other side

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of that said, like, what are our Democrats up to?

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They've been very quiet lately, haven't they?

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Well, I'm assuming if the frontrunner just got slam dunked

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out of the freaking running.

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That what would they have to say? But this is

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who they were promoting.

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And let's, I mean, I get it that they keep

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saying alleged and they keep saying, but you've got, I

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didn't finish off this at the end of this article.

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It says another woman accuses Swalwell of rape saying he

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drugged her in 2018. Eric Swalwell quits California governor race

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amid sexual misconduct claims and Eric Swalwell to resign.

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From Congress after sexual misconduct claims.

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Again that takes us back to why why would you

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why wouldn't you fight this if you were innocent right

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i mean that has to be a collective political move

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on his behalf being instructed by others to take a

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step aside lest they i guess face some type of retribution.

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Either way. This is our call.

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You know how the system is. It's control controlled. Like

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you do, as I say, you can be here, but

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you can't be there because you have this. And then

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this is what you're going to have to do. You're

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going to have to plead guilty. Like, like it's literally

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like a process, like, you know, well, how about.

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The last representative that we were talking about that committed

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medical fraud during COVID using her family's medical business? What

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is going on inside our Congress?

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Is this literally, I mean, government, what did I say

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that was, government gangsters?

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I mean, you guys just feel a muck?

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Yeah, I think like if you have something in your background,

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they can use it against you. And if you don't

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comply to what they want you to do, then well,

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guess what?

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This is what's coming for you.

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Yeah, no, they make or break you. I've always said that.

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They can make or break you. And people think I'm

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crazy sometimes when I see it. I can see it

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in their face. When I say the media or the

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government and politicians, they can be made.

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Or broken by the system because it is higher than

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all of them. It is more than, they are the

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puppets of our society.

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But they're also these gangsters that they're talking about that

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are doing some nefarious things. And why are these people

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allowed to run for anything why isn't a full background

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check done to begin with yeah let's see what's in

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there before we put him into office and allow him

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to continue to use his power and abuse i just

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don't even understand well.

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It's an easy way to use them it's a very

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easy way to use them and get them and it's

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a very good candidate to use for whatever they want

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that candidate to do because they have that back they

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have that back that blackmail Yes.

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All right.

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Well, we were down to number eight on History Channel's

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website about who is and who isn't the Zodiac. And

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if you guys remember correctly, when they spoke about Jack,

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their reasoning for stating that he was excluded as a

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possible suspect of the Zodiac is because the law enforcement

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didn't find anything credible in his evidence. So we're going

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to be listening to law enforcement audios again today just

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to see how these people are behaving and And we'll

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talk about those once I finish this last couple slides.

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This number eight suspect, Donald Lee Bujoke, why suspected? The

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hooded man who stabbed the couple at Lake Berryessa said

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he just escaped from a prison in Montana, according to

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Brian Hartnell, who survived the attack. Researcher Kevin Robert Brooks

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developed a lengthy circumstantial case implicating.

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Donald Lee Bujoke.

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Who was released in 1968 from Montana's Deer Lodge Penitentiary

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after serving 11 years of a life sentence for killing

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a sheriff's deputy. According to Brooks, fellow inmates said Bajoke

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had talked about killing people to make them slaves in

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the afterlife, as mentioned in a Zodiac letter. Brooks claimed

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the Halloween card sent to reporter Paul Avery depicted harsh

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conditions at the prison and that Boo on the inside

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referenced Bajoke's name. Bajoke had been discharged from the Army

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for mental health reasons. Brooks alleged that markings on some

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Zodiac envelopes spell out Zodiac is a veteran with four F's.

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Brooks also speculated that the Zodiac's signature cross-circle symbol was

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00:12:40.730 --> 00:12:44.409
inspired by the helicopter landing pad at Fort Ord, California,

234
00:12:44.730 --> 00:12:48.029
where Bajoke had been stationed. Why he was ruled out?

235
00:12:48.309 --> 00:12:51.389
Bajoke's fingerprints did not match those believed to be the Zodiac's.

236
00:12:52.350 --> 00:12:54.470
How can they make this statement when they try to

237
00:12:54.509 --> 00:12:56.970
claim they're not even sure they have the Zodiac's fingerprints?

238
00:12:57.070 --> 00:12:58.909
I get so confused with the rhetoric.

239
00:12:58.929 --> 00:13:01.320
They can't be sure they have the Zodiac's fingerprints. They

240
00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:03.759
don't know whose fingerprints they have, and they're most likely

241
00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:04.480
not the Zodiac's.

242
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.179
Very careful about it.

243
00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:11.330
Yeah, I mean, he took great painstaking lengths to cover

244
00:13:11.379 --> 00:13:13.210
those fingers.

245
00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:15.529
So anyways, let's see here.

246
00:13:15.549 --> 00:13:18.429
A park ranger at Lake Berryessa claimed Hartnell said the

247
00:13:18.490 --> 00:13:22.029
prison was in Colorado, not Montana. Bajoke was released just

248
00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:25.350
three days before the Zodiac's Lake Herman road killings. And

249
00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:28.429
some researchers think he would have had difficulty traveling across

250
00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:29.669
three states in that time.

251
00:13:30.049 --> 00:13:31.830
Bajoke was incarcerated.

252
00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:33.769
During the Bates murder and other early killings that may

253
00:13:33.809 --> 00:13:37.549
have been the Zodiacs. He died in 1993. So, again,

254
00:13:37.570 --> 00:13:40.409
they bring out some very, very good points. These are

255
00:13:40.429 --> 00:13:42.330
some of the things that I look for when somebody

256
00:13:42.389 --> 00:13:46.029
calls me with a potential suspect. Bottom line is, as

257
00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:49.129
I always want to see the handwriting, and, of course,

258
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.299
the time frame has to match before I'm even going

259
00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:54.019
to engage and give my services for free to help

260
00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.480
somebody else move on because I know that the handwriting

261
00:13:56.539 --> 00:13:56.980
is jacked.

262
00:13:57.059 --> 00:13:58.100
So, yeah.

263
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:00.950
I thought that this was interesting that they picked out

264
00:14:00.990 --> 00:14:03.309
some of the things he couldn't have been responsible for,

265
00:14:04.350 --> 00:14:10.149
which we know were executed by the Zodiac. So that

266
00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:13.279
pretty much rules this individual out. So they may have

267
00:14:13.340 --> 00:14:16.059
this one correct. But I thought it was interesting. Isn't

268
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:18.370
4F or what is it?

269
00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:26.409
Is it 4H? Which one's the farm farm? What is 4F?

270
00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:27.309
That's 4H.

271
00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:28.250
That's 4H.

272
00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:28.649
Okay.

273
00:14:30.809 --> 00:14:32.929
I giggled when I read 4F. I'm like, what, was

274
00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:36.860
he farming pigs now? Yeah. Does anybody know what 4F is?

275
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:38.309
A veteran with 4F.

276
00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:38.580
Huh.

277
00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.480
I'll have to write that one down.

278
00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:42.580
Right?

279
00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:43.179
Ah.

280
00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:46.500
All right. So here is a list of the American

281
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.019
Acts Committee members. In fact, what's that?

282
00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:54.629
One quick comment question on the suspect, quote-unquote suspect. Okay,

283
00:14:54.669 --> 00:14:58.110
so he was stationed in Fort Oregon, California. Then he

284
00:14:58.190 --> 00:15:02.230
ends up in Montana and commits whatever crimes that get

285
00:15:02.250 --> 00:15:07.000
him incarcerated or institutionalized, shall we say. And then he

286
00:15:07.009 --> 00:15:11.460
comes back to California and they have documentation of all that?

287
00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.440
No, they're saying it was very hard for him to have,

288
00:15:14.539 --> 00:15:17.779
it said, some researchers think he would have had difficulty

289
00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.519
traveling across three states in three days because he was

290
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:23.559
released three days before the Lake Herman Road killings.

291
00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:28.809
And if he was incarcerated during Cher, Joe Bates, I

292
00:15:28.830 --> 00:15:31.110
think that would be almost enough to rule him out

293
00:15:31.129 --> 00:15:31.529
in my book.

294
00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:34.549
Yeah, so I think History Channel got it right on

295
00:15:34.570 --> 00:15:37.049
this one, obviously, but not on Jack.

296
00:15:37.129 --> 00:15:41.210
I mean, Jack, that was just complete crap. Well, they

297
00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:43.090
had to get some right, you know. They had to

298
00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:46.309
get a little bit of it right. Yeah, but they

299
00:15:46.330 --> 00:15:48.129
didn't get any of it right in Jack's case. They

300
00:15:48.309 --> 00:15:51.769
literally just downplayed it. They gave more reasoning as to

301
00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:56.360
Bajoke being a possibility. talking about his military background and stuff.

302
00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:00.539
They didn't even mention Jack's military background, association with the

303
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:05.159
Air Force. They left so much out that they actually

304
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:11.909
patronized and gave to their other suspects as possibilities for suspects.

305
00:16:12.210 --> 00:16:14.629
It's mind-boggling, but it's going to fit right in and

306
00:16:14.649 --> 00:16:16.669
tie right in with the audios that we're going to hear.

307
00:16:17.309 --> 00:16:20.169
So this here is a list of the Amerithrax committee.

308
00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:22.610
Members I faxed on March 9th and 10th of 2010

309
00:16:22.610 --> 00:16:25.029
in no particular order. But I do have the fax

310
00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:27.250
report and the phone bill to support this. But I

311
00:16:27.309 --> 00:16:32.049
faxed every single one of these individuals that were on

312
00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:36.919
the Amerithrax committee over the 9-11 event, 9-11, 9-18 events,

313
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:39.100
the mailing of the anthrax letters.

314
00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:40.919
And not one response.

315
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:42.379
Wow.

316
00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:47.080
Yeah, that's a lot. And to not hear anything. Nothing.

317
00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:50.200
Not a boo, not a peep. And Edmund G. Brown,

318
00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:54.720
California Attorney General, was in there. Oh, my God.

319
00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:57.370
This seems like you're going to get something. Like, I'm

320
00:16:57.389 --> 00:16:59.590
sorry we can't comment or something.

321
00:16:59.610 --> 00:17:03.190
Let's see. To top it off, Dennis Kaufman walked the

322
00:17:03.230 --> 00:17:05.089
evidence on Jack W. Terrence Jr.

323
00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:07.349
Right through the doors of the FBI in 2000 and

324
00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:10.329
placed DNA evidence in the FBI's and San Francisco Police

325
00:17:10.349 --> 00:17:14.400
Department's hands. It took two years for the SFPD to

326
00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:16.859
confirm that they tested it, but the FBI says that

327
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.940
SFPD pulled the DNA from the lip of the envelope

328
00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:24.089
and the stamps rendering it useless. And that's where we're

329
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:29.369
going to get into some of these other law enforcement

330
00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:33.009
audios so that you can hear what was going on

331
00:17:33.029 --> 00:17:38.130
and taking place and how SFPD was basically fumbling Dennis around.

332
00:17:38.970 --> 00:17:43.240
There's links to other SFPDs. testing issues. I know that

333
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.140
Gerald Brown also had to investigate SFPD's lab because there

334
00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.259
was a person that was busted for falsifying tests and

335
00:17:52.660 --> 00:17:55.279
I think swapping out drugs so that they could use them,

336
00:17:55.339 --> 00:17:58.380
probably replacing them with baby powder or whatever it is

337
00:17:58.420 --> 00:17:58.619
that a.

338
00:17:58.579 --> 00:18:00.740
Person would do to do that.

339
00:18:01.509 --> 00:18:06.559
Very, very big story that hit, looks like in 2010.

340
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:08.849
So at the same time, we're trying to figure out

341
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:10.369
what's going on with the DNA.

342
00:18:11.309 --> 00:18:13.750
Why would it have been pooled? Why did they come

343
00:18:13.789 --> 00:18:14.750
up with two sources?

344
00:18:15.109 --> 00:18:17.549
And then we hear all of this about SFPD, who

345
00:18:17.609 --> 00:18:20.589
was supposed to have been the persons or the entities

346
00:18:20.670 --> 00:18:25.910
that was doing this testing on Jack. Attorney General Brown

347
00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:29.109
has been placed in charge of cleaning up the SFPD

348
00:18:29.170 --> 00:18:32.750
with Chief George Gascon, who came from Arizona. So here

349
00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:36.710
we have another Arizona reference. So, I mean, we had

350
00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:41.470
Chris Fickle, we had Stephen Dewhurst. Didn't you say there

351
00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:44.980
was somebody else in, Lindsay, in Arizona?

352
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.559
No, I think that there was.

353
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:50.640
Can you hear me?

354
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.859
Anyways, due to the testing of drug and DNA departments

355
00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:57.519
being tampered with by the examiner, information on the anthrax

356
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.569
letters and SFPD's destruction of evidence was sent by fax

357
00:19:00.630 --> 00:19:03.250
and walked into the downtown office of Attorney General Browne,

358
00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:05.950
And the next slide was the response from his office.

359
00:19:06.329 --> 00:19:11.349
So I did get a response from Gerald Brown. I

360
00:19:11.410 --> 00:19:15.309
reached out to Edmund G. Brown Jr., Attorney General at

361
00:19:15.329 --> 00:19:16.869
the time in Sacramento at.

362
00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:20.950
The State Capitol. And I walked in a package on

363
00:19:21.019 --> 00:19:25.799
Jack and the handwriting and everything else. And obviously complaining

364
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.839
about the SFPD and their lack of investigation into Jack Terrence.

365
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:31.980
And this was the response that I received.

366
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.190
Dear Ms.

367
00:19:33.230 --> 00:19:36.160
Bartow, thank you for your correspondence to the Office of

368
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:39.380
the Attorney General requesting that a crime be investigated and

369
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:42.740
that the alleged perpetrator of the crime be prosecuted. If

370
00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:45.750
you have information about a crime, please file a report

371
00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.230
with the police or sheriff's department in the area where

372
00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:52.059
the crime occurred. local law enforcement authorities are responsible for

373
00:19:52.099 --> 00:19:56.500
investigating violations of law within their jurisdictions after investigating the

374
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.380
crime the local law enforcement authorities may forward the case

375
00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:02.789
to the county district attorney's office for prosecution if appropriate

376
00:20:03.230 --> 00:20:05.849
the decision whether or not to file criminal charges will

377
00:20:05.869 --> 00:20:09.109
then be made by the locally elected district attorney We

378
00:20:09.170 --> 00:20:11.769
hope this information will be helpful to you. Thank you

379
00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:16.230
again for contacting our office. And this was sincerely Melissa Nelson,

380
00:20:16.329 --> 00:20:18.549
Public Inquiry Union for Edmund G.

381
00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:26.839
Brown Jr., Attorney General. Is that not hilarious? Did they

382
00:20:26.859 --> 00:20:29.640
not even read what you sent in? Obviously not.

383
00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:36.220
I think what we can do is there's multiple jurisdictions involved,

384
00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:43.000
so therefore... The AG would have jurisdiction because there's multiple jurisdictions.

385
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.349
Just like in a federal, when there's multiple states involved,

386
00:20:45.630 --> 00:20:46.809
then the feds can come in.

387
00:20:47.509 --> 00:20:50.950
But consider the timing of this. So this letter is

388
00:20:50.990 --> 00:20:53.859
coming back from them. When did you say I walked

389
00:20:53.890 --> 00:20:54.099
it in?

390
00:20:54.130 --> 00:20:54.490
Hold on.

391
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:57.799
Let me see when I walked it in. 2000.

392
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:01.400
No, I didn't.

393
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:03.119
No, no, no, no.

394
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:03.259
2009.

395
00:21:03.259 --> 00:21:07.859
Okay, so August of 2009 is when I walked that

396
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.650
evidence in and complaining about the SFPD not properly handling

397
00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:12.049
the case.

398
00:21:13.049 --> 00:21:17.349
And their response is May 13 of 2010. And 2010

399
00:21:17.349 --> 00:21:22.970
is when Jerry Brown announced that SFPD was being investigated.

400
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.240
Their lab, who handled DNA and drug testing and all

401
00:21:26.259 --> 00:21:28.579
of the freaking different things, was corrupt.

402
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:35.750
Correct. So what's the timing? Yeah. They were covering their butts. Yes,

403
00:21:35.809 --> 00:21:40.230
they were. Yeah, because this individual had been the lab

404
00:21:40.299 --> 00:21:44.400
tech in 2000, the one that was busted in 2010.

405
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.680
So it went back.

406
00:21:47.059 --> 00:21:49.859
I'm sure it opened up cases for criminals all the

407
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.940
way back to however long that individual had been employed

408
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:57.289
for the SFPD as a lab tech. But I did

409
00:21:57.309 --> 00:22:00.589
feel this was an oxymoron that they actually knew. They

410
00:22:00.630 --> 00:22:02.309
tell me to file a report with the very same

411
00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:06.279
people I'm complaining about. San Francisco Police Department supposedly tested

412
00:22:06.339 --> 00:22:08.039
and admittedly compromised.

413
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.220
The DNA on Jack W. Terrence Jr. in 2002. And

414
00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:12.559
I wanted Attorney General.

415
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.380
Brown to respond to and investigate because the complaints are

416
00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.680
said to go back to 2002 of corrupt.

417
00:22:17.369 --> 00:22:18.789
Examiners and examinations.

418
00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:24.599
Wow. Here's the picture I was looking for. And we're

419
00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:27.039
going to have we're going to pay. This is the

420
00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:32.210
one of the first audio recordings between Dennis and Chris Hopkins,

421
00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:35.309
which was the agent that I also worked with for

422
00:22:35.349 --> 00:22:38.410
about three years and provided, I believe, four or five

423
00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:43.119
reports at this point in different unsolved serial killings and

424
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:48.299
continuous or additional supplemental reports to the handwriting in the

425
00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:49.039
Zodiac case.

426
00:22:49.779 --> 00:22:52.359
And Chris Hopkins was always very cordial.

427
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:55.460
Dennis had a revolving door at the FBI. He could

428
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.450
literally walk in and get Chris's attention anytime he wanted.

429
00:22:59.849 --> 00:23:02.509
That's not somebody who law enforcement thinks is crazy and

430
00:23:02.569 --> 00:23:07.599
isn't taking serious. So I'm going to go ahead and

431
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:13.269
have Juan- play that particular audio file. And it's going

432
00:23:13.289 --> 00:23:16.490
to be a little rough, but just listen intensely and

433
00:23:16.509 --> 00:23:20.269
you will hear the information that I'm hoping that everybody

434
00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:23.329
will understand and see that Chris Hopkins was very much

435
00:23:23.390 --> 00:23:25.319
into Dennis on the Zodiac case.

436
00:23:26.809 --> 00:23:27.369
Hi, what's up?

437
00:23:27.849 --> 00:23:29.079
Mike Vance to the company.

438
00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:29.700
Hey, Dennis.

439
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:30.440
How you doing?

440
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:32.180
That was a funny message.

441
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.660
I don't know why I popped off of that, man.

442
00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:35.259
I got a.

443
00:23:35.259 --> 00:23:36.059
Laugh out of it.

444
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:37.319
I appreciate it.

445
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:38.240
That's cool.

446
00:23:38.269 --> 00:23:39.599
I was hoping you'd like it.

447
00:23:39.670 --> 00:23:39.990
Yeah.

448
00:23:40.049 --> 00:23:41.269
I thought it was funny.

449
00:23:41.309 --> 00:23:42.650
How are you doing?

450
00:23:42.769 --> 00:23:43.730
Oh, man, I just.

451
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:48.740
Turned gray in it. Yeah, I know.

452
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:50.119
Yeah, that's all.

453
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.299
I know Ken told you. I was pretty disappointed by

454
00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:57.140
the whole thing. You know, it's just only because I

455
00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:59.359
know we'll get to the right answer. It's just that

456
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:01.819
we had our hopes that, you.

457
00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:02.900
Know, by now we would know.

458
00:24:03.529 --> 00:24:03.980
Right.

459
00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:06.329
So it's just, you know, that timing thing, and that's,

460
00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:10.109
you know, I know you share the frustration, too, so.

461
00:24:10.309 --> 00:24:13.769
Oh, yeah, yeah. I just, you know, I don't know.

462
00:24:13.789 --> 00:24:14.029
I just.

463
00:24:14.789 --> 00:24:17.410
I talked to Kelly Carroll today just to, you know,

464
00:24:17.430 --> 00:24:18.420
I don't even know why I called him.

465
00:24:18.430 --> 00:24:19.730
Because I had talked to him originally before I even

466
00:24:19.750 --> 00:24:21.839
went there. But, you know, he wanted me to.

467
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:23.519
Send him the stuff in the mail at first. And,

468
00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:25.440
you know, anything I'll tell you wasn't that interesting.

469
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:26.079
Right.

470
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:27.380
No, that's why I want you guys.

471
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:28.680
You guys are the ones that listen to me.

472
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:29.299
Right.

473
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:30.339
Well, how was he?

474
00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:31.039
Was he receptive?

475
00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:31.380
Oh, yeah.

476
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:32.240
He talked to me.

477
00:24:32.269 --> 00:24:36.700
Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.

478
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.950
Did they tell him that we had been, he talked

479
00:24:39.990 --> 00:24:40.490
to us and.

480
00:24:41.029 --> 00:24:51.829
Oh, no, that's okay. you know, whatever, you know, I

481
00:24:52.269 --> 00:24:53.609
hope you guys are working together on this.

482
00:24:53.650 --> 00:24:57.359
Get this thing done, you know, and, you know, I'm.

483
00:24:57.259 --> 00:24:59.380
Looking at it like this guy's a murderer, you know,

484
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.990
he's out there, and, you know, I don't know, you know,

485
00:25:04.109 --> 00:25:04.849
I just want this thing to.

486
00:25:04.829 --> 00:25:05.250
Be over with.

487
00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:06.990
Yeah.

488
00:25:07.109 --> 00:25:07.430
You know.

489
00:25:07.450 --> 00:25:07.970
Absolutely.

490
00:25:07.990 --> 00:25:09.730
So how'd you leave it with Kelly? Well, yeah, I

491
00:25:09.750 --> 00:25:10.789
talked to Kim.

492
00:25:11.089 --> 00:25:12.910
A little while ago.

493
00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:14.990
I didn't want to, you know, seem like I was

494
00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:16.579
going around here going back to talk to him.

495
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.460
No, that's all right, man.

496
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.559
I didn't want to get together next week and say, okay, well,

497
00:25:21.579 --> 00:25:22.579
I have to talk to you guys first.

498
00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:24.750
And I talked to Ken and he said he didn't

499
00:25:24.789 --> 00:25:26.329
have no problem with it. Yeah.

500
00:25:26.490 --> 00:25:28.789
You know, so I left a message after I talked

501
00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:31.009
to Ken and said I guess we could meet next week,

502
00:25:31.049 --> 00:25:32.839
you know, for him to call me. He had to

503
00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:35.240
call me because it was after five and I left

504
00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:35.940
a message, so.

505
00:25:36.460 --> 00:25:36.779
Okay.

506
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:38.480
Yeah, that's what I just left out.

507
00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:40.079
Okay, well, I won't be able to be there.

508
00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:41.720
I'm going to be out of town next week.

509
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:42.299
Are you?

510
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:43.339
Yeah, that doesn't matter.

511
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:45.970
I mean, if you and Kelly and Ken can all meet.

512
00:25:46.369 --> 00:25:47.109
Yeah, okay.

513
00:25:47.289 --> 00:25:49.690
You know, I don't bring much to the table other

514
00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:50.470
than an ugly mug.

515
00:25:50.529 --> 00:25:50.730
Yeah.

516
00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:53.150
You know what, I don't blame you.

517
00:25:53.269 --> 00:25:54.930
And I'm glad you did.

518
00:25:55.230 --> 00:26:00.730
Because now, you know, maybe we can get things, you know.

519
00:26:00.769 --> 00:26:16.220
He and I had a total... Miscommunication.

520
00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:16.799
Yeah.

521
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.539
And I'm going to leave it at that.

522
00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:21.319
I think he made misrepresentations.

523
00:26:21.339 --> 00:26:22.900
He led me to believe he was going to get

524
00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:25.089
right on it to include your envelope.

525
00:26:25.430 --> 00:26:25.789
I see.

526
00:26:26.130 --> 00:26:28.829
And when I finally got through to him, he says no.

527
00:26:29.630 --> 00:26:33.170
And so, you know, whatever. If that's what he wants

528
00:26:33.190 --> 00:26:36.559
to say now, that's fine. And I'm, you know, screw it.

529
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:38.440
It's not worth it, you know. Right, I understand.

530
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.640
If he now is willing to meet you and, you know,

531
00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:43.960
look at all the information you have, that's what we want.

532
00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:44.599
Right.

533
00:26:44.619 --> 00:26:47.420
We want him to get excited about it as we are.

534
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.779
You guys just want to get something like I do. Right.

535
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.440
So if that's what it takes, that's fine. You know,

536
00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:54.220
he has the feeling that we're trying to.

537
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:54.980
Steal something from him.

538
00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:58.150
We gave him your name. We gave him your stepdad's name.

539
00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:00.509
Yeah, I know you did, because he said that.

540
00:27:00.529 --> 00:27:03.569
We gave him everything. Well, you brought us, because I

541
00:27:03.589 --> 00:27:05.529
sent him down an introductory letter. Right.

542
00:27:05.609 --> 00:27:07.069
Yeah, he said that. He confirmed that.

543
00:27:07.089 --> 00:27:10.190
So, you know, if this is what it takes, that's fine.

544
00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:11.640
We have no heartburn over it.

545
00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:12.799
Right, right. Yeah.

546
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:16.400
Yeah, I know, you know, and I know, you know,

547
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:18.019
I know you've been totally honest with me, you've.

548
00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.059
Been very helpful, man, and I appreciate that.

549
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:22.400
I feel very comfortable about you.

550
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:23.640
Oh, that's good, yeah.

551
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:24.400
And I do.

552
00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:26.619
I really tell you at the same time.

553
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:27.920
Yeah, yeah.

554
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.460
Well, maybe by the time we can all work this

555
00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:32.009
thing out and get this thing done, man.

556
00:27:32.109 --> 00:27:32.470
Right, right.

557
00:27:32.509 --> 00:27:33.390
You know, that's great.

558
00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:34.349
Absolutely.

559
00:27:34.470 --> 00:27:37.490
And, yeah, because this thing's been dragging on for six months,

560
00:27:37.549 --> 00:27:38.990
it seems like six years to me, but.

561
00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:40.289
Right.

562
00:27:40.349 --> 00:27:41.750
Yeah, that would be great.

563
00:27:41.769 --> 00:27:50.349
And you know, he's got the ticket. down there for

564
00:27:50.410 --> 00:27:51.089
his end of it.

565
00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.950
Now, you know, he likes to bolster, you know, he

566
00:27:53.970 --> 00:27:56.109
was giving me this line about, well, you know, it's

567
00:27:56.150 --> 00:27:58.809
going to be a local prosecution and, you know, it's

568
00:27:58.829 --> 00:28:00.569
his thing. And I said, well, you know, I didn't

569
00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:02.130
get into it with him. But the fact of the

570
00:28:02.150 --> 00:28:04.609
matter is he only has one homicide in his jurisdiction.

571
00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:06.309
That's right. That's right.

572
00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.490
And there's more jurisdictions.

573
00:28:07.829 --> 00:28:09.690
That have more into it than he does.

574
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:10.039
Sure.

575
00:28:10.059 --> 00:28:12.960
And Matter of fact, we do, you know, we are.

576
00:28:12.819 --> 00:28:17.140
Sanctioned by the legislature to work serial murder cases.

577
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:17.640
Right.

578
00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:19.400
So, I mean, I don't want, I wasn't getting into

579
00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:23.240
a busy match over turf or jurisdiction. All I want

580
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:24.240
is to do the DNA.

581
00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:24.940
Right.

582
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:26.759
Yeah, just get the job done.

583
00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:27.279
Right.

584
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.079
And, you know, it kind of annoyed me, you know,

585
00:28:30.099 --> 00:28:33.380
as I told them initially, our laboratory was committed to

586
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:35.359
a 30-day turnaround time.

587
00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:35.640
Right.

588
00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:38.029
But we would have been so much further ahead.

589
00:28:38.049 --> 00:28:38.160
Right.

590
00:28:39.049 --> 00:28:40.789
Than where we are now. Absolutely.

591
00:28:41.049 --> 00:28:45.250
But, you know, everyone, because it's such a high-profile deal,

592
00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:48.430
everyone wants to be the one, you know, to say,

593
00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:50.710
I was the one who solved this.

594
00:28:50.789 --> 00:28:51.170
Right.

595
00:28:51.269 --> 00:28:52.759
This was my case, and da-da-da.

596
00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:53.660
Right.

597
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:58.079
And, you know, everybody worked together to solve it, and everybody,

598
00:28:58.140 --> 00:28:58.539
you know.

599
00:28:58.599 --> 00:28:59.059
That's right.

600
00:28:59.140 --> 00:29:00.940
You know, what's wrong with that?

601
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.640
And, you know, you run into this every now and

602
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.869
then with these petty cops.

603
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:06.109
I'm sure you do.

604
00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:07.410
The real person is you.

605
00:29:07.630 --> 00:29:09.230
Right. Right.

606
00:29:09.289 --> 00:29:10.470
So there wasn't anything.

607
00:29:10.170 --> 00:29:14.130
That Kelly Keller did to identify this guy as the Zodiac.

608
00:29:14.190 --> 00:29:16.970
It was because you had done your homework, and you

609
00:29:16.990 --> 00:29:17.750
brought it in here.

610
00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:18.450
Right.

611
00:29:18.509 --> 00:29:20.869
So there's really, you know, that's what Ken and I

612
00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:22.970
always are laughing about. So there's only one guy to

613
00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:23.769
get credit for this.

614
00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:25.930
There's two. so the fact that you.

615
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:30.460
Know he's not necessarily a sworn police officer at the

616
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:33.059
time there's only one guy that solved it now the

617
00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:35.089
other guys just happened to be cops at the time

618
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.349
and the place that he came to but there's one

619
00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.859
guy who gets the credit and so Kelly can jump

620
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:43.700
up and down all he wants. You know, when the story,

621
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:47.619
you know, is told. Well, he was just sitting.

622
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.450
On the desk at the time when the phone rang.

623
00:29:50.630 --> 00:29:52.130
Right, well, I feel that.

624
00:29:52.009 --> 00:29:52.970
Way, you know.

625
00:29:53.029 --> 00:29:57.289
But, uh, yeah, totally. So, well, I'll meet him and.

626
00:29:57.269 --> 00:29:59.940
See if we can All right.

627
00:30:00.569 --> 00:30:06.289
So that was a very interesting take on the participation

628
00:30:06.630 --> 00:30:12.329
of San Francisco PD's detective Kelly Carroll, I believe is

629
00:30:12.369 --> 00:30:17.319
his name, and the pushback that Dennis seemed to be receiving.

630
00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:20.799
We're going to hear a little bit about that as well.

631
00:30:21.859 --> 00:30:23.079
Are you still with us, you guys?

632
00:30:23.779 --> 00:30:25.119
Yeah.

633
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.619
Any comments?

634
00:30:28.339 --> 00:30:29.240
That was interesting.

635
00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:30.809
Taking it in.

636
00:30:31.589 --> 00:30:35.289
Yeah, it's obvious that Dennis and that FBI guy had

637
00:30:35.309 --> 00:30:37.990
a good rapport. And the guy did not think Dennis

638
00:30:38.009 --> 00:30:41.329
was a kook. He thought his decisions were legitimate. And

639
00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:43.910
he was taking them seriously. And he himself was wondering

640
00:30:43.950 --> 00:30:48.240
why there was not enough coordination between the various law

641
00:30:48.299 --> 00:30:50.319
enforcement and even within the FBI itself.

642
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.759
And that 30-day turnaround, why didn't they just run the

643
00:30:54.819 --> 00:30:59.990
DNA themselves? What was the purpose of pawning that off

644
00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:01.269
onto SFPD?

645
00:31:01.349 --> 00:31:04.369
Why not develop the profile yourself, because.

646
00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:07.279
That's what running the DNA is about, and then provide

647
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.799
that profile to SFPD to make the comparison?

648
00:31:09.819 --> 00:31:11.180
Right.

649
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.269
I mean, I think there were a lot of different

650
00:31:14.289 --> 00:31:17.329
ways this could have been handled. Not to mention that

651
00:31:17.390 --> 00:31:20.359
we're going to hear an audio file where there's a

652
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.980
second letter that's still in possession of the FBI.

653
00:31:23.019 --> 00:31:25.400
So why didn't they turn around and send that one?

654
00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:29.029
You know, Dennis is saying it's been six months since

655
00:31:29.369 --> 00:31:32.990
SFPD has received this stuff and nothing has been reported

656
00:31:33.029 --> 00:31:37.369
about it. And what's amazing is that he's saying how

657
00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:39.450
long it seems, like six years of his life.

658
00:31:39.869 --> 00:31:41.710
Little did he know at six months into.

659
00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:44.049
The investigation that he would be still at it when

660
00:31:44.089 --> 00:31:47.799
he found me in 2009. Like six months turned into

661
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:51.980
nine years. But Chris Hopkins, still there with him all

662
00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:56.349
the while. Every investigative lead that was given to the FBI,

663
00:31:56.509 --> 00:31:59.710
Chris Hopkins says they checked out, including going to properties

664
00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:05.930
that Jack had owned and lived on and found cadaver bones.

665
00:32:06.529 --> 00:32:09.740
So they took a dabber dog and they found human remains.

666
00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:12.859
So there's a lot of things that have happened here

667
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:13.859
that that is.

668
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:17.079
A legit investigation by the FBI that SFPD never even

669
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:19.109
attempted to touch. And we're going to hear about that

670
00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:22.710
with this next clip is going to be Kelly Carroll

671
00:32:22.730 --> 00:32:23.829
from the SFPD.

672
00:32:24.670 --> 00:32:25.900
We're going to go ahead and play that one.

673
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:37.470
Yeah, Kelly Carroll?

674
00:32:37.710 --> 00:32:38.009
One moment.

675
00:32:54.710 --> 00:32:57.779
You just paged me? Who's this? Dennis Thompson. Dennis, how

676
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:00.759
are you? Pretty good. Did we talk many months ago? Yes,

677
00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:02.940
we did. And lately you've been dealing with Chris Hopkins

678
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.940
and his partner? Yeah, I have. Okay. Yeah, you left

679
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.170
a message in my voicemail. Yeah. What's up?

680
00:33:08.750 --> 00:33:11.150
Well, I didn't know. I don't know what's going on.

681
00:33:11.190 --> 00:33:15.390
They've been keeping me informed, I guess. You know, this

682
00:33:15.430 --> 00:33:18.349
situation is just harder to me. I'm just trying to

683
00:33:18.369 --> 00:33:20.730
find out if there's anything I can do to, you know.

684
00:33:24.670 --> 00:33:27.049
Yeah, because I talked to you. As a matter of fact,

685
00:33:27.069 --> 00:33:28.970
I called you before I even talked to them ever. Right,

686
00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:30.710
and I thought you were going to come down here

687
00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:32.670
and mail me some stuff. Actually, you're going to mail it, right?

688
00:33:32.690 --> 00:33:34.109
Well, I was going to, but it's just too much

689
00:33:34.230 --> 00:33:34.470
to mail.

690
00:33:34.490 --> 00:33:36.319
I had a whole suitcase full of stuff that gathered.

691
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:39.819
Okay, and who has the suitcase now? I still got it.

692
00:33:39.859 --> 00:33:41.160
I mean, I gave them copies of everything I had.

693
00:33:41.180 --> 00:33:46.000
You gave them copies of everything? Yeah. And so they're

694
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:49.569
aware of all the particulars. They've actually debriefed you, kind of.

695
00:33:49.809 --> 00:33:53.660
Yeah, they have. Okay. Well, you know what? I.

696
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:05.680
Well, I'm not sure why.

697
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:07.759
When we talked on the phone, you just thought it

698
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:09.989
was your stepdad.

699
00:34:10.989 --> 00:34:13.750
Yeah. Why in a nutshell? Give it to me right now.

700
00:34:13.889 --> 00:34:15.889
Why I thought that?

701
00:34:15.909 --> 00:34:19.980
Yeah, why you thought that? Because it answered every question

702
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:21.800
I ever had in my whole life, how I was raised.

703
00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:22.420
Uh-huh.

704
00:34:28.940 --> 00:34:32.659
My mom, I've never, you know, the situations around her

705
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:35.420
death have never happened. I would have never, well, I

706
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.079
knew he was capable of murder, but I've seen him,

707
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:38.820
I witnessed it myself. I saw him cut some guys'

708
00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:41.300
face at myself when I was little. I was looking

709
00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:43.280
one time when this girl, I don't remember, because I

710
00:34:43.300 --> 00:34:45.619
was about five years old, I was in a car,

711
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:47.570
it was at a mountain somewhere, it was raining. So

712
00:34:47.610 --> 00:34:51.050
I remember, I remember being woken up by this girl screaming.

713
00:34:51.070 --> 00:34:52.550
He was in front of the car, he was behind,

714
00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:52.789
he was.

715
00:34:58.650 --> 00:34:59.989
I'm not the type of person, man, I know you

716
00:35:00.110 --> 00:35:01.929
get a lot of wackos calling to say, hey, I

717
00:35:01.949 --> 00:35:03.449
know who Chuck, or whatever it is.

718
00:35:03.670 --> 00:35:06.929
I'm not that way, man. Okay, I believe you. And

719
00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:09.489
the reason I'm just curious why you're calling me.

720
00:35:09.449 --> 00:35:14.340
Now versus, you know, did Hopkins tell you to call me?

721
00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:16.469
No, they didn't. They have no idea I'm calling you.

722
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:33.869
I just, I understand there might be... Well, it's just

723
00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:34.920
the impression I've gotten.

724
00:36:15.809 --> 00:36:18.929
I want you to, I'm going to ask you a

725
00:36:19.070 --> 00:36:19.829
real pointed question.

726
00:36:19.849 --> 00:36:21.860
When you say there's conflict about who does what, where

727
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:22.610
do you get this from?

728
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:24.039
From Christmas partner?

729
00:36:24.340 --> 00:36:26.739
No, no, no, no. Where do you get it? It's

730
00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:43.050
just it. Well, they didn't directly say that. I mean,

731
00:36:43.070 --> 00:36:44.630
you know, I don't have... No, no, you're somebody in

732
00:36:44.670 --> 00:36:47.059
my book, absolutely. Okay, well, I appreciate that, but I'm

733
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:50.039
just saying, it's just, you know, this guy's a murderer, man. Yeah.

734
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:54.340
Now, do you have concerns for your bullet safety right now?

735
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.880
Yeah, I do. Okay, have you talked to the local.

736
00:36:56.610 --> 00:36:58.570
Police or expressed this to Special Agent.

737
00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:27.369
Hopkins, the FBI? Yeah, a little bit, you know, What?

738
00:37:27.849 --> 00:37:28.170
Okay.

739
00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:58.269
So, um, but there is a, as far as I'm concerned, because, uh, Sacramento? Okay.

740
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:25.789
Please call the local sheriff's police department and or tell

741
00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:26.429
the FBI.

742
00:38:27.090 --> 00:38:30.559
Okay. Yeah, I mean, they're out of state, so... Oh. Yeah. Well,

743
00:38:30.619 --> 00:38:34.800
even better than tell the FBI because they're a national agency.

744
00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:39.010
Okay. All right.

745
00:38:39.510 --> 00:38:43.269
So that's where we have Kelly Carroll actively stating that

746
00:38:43.409 --> 00:38:46.929
he had not received anything. And, of course, we hear

747
00:38:46.969 --> 00:38:51.210
Chris Hopkins saying that he has not only sent this information,

748
00:38:51.269 --> 00:38:53.670
but he has spoken to Kelly Carroll about it.

749
00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:56.380
So here's that pissing contest that's going on.

750
00:38:56.389 --> 00:39:01.780
Go ahead. Oh, go ahead. I was just saying, oh, wow.

751
00:39:03.409 --> 00:39:05.630
Well, the one thing I take from that audio file

752
00:39:05.849 --> 00:39:09.570
is the mention of Dennis talking about being young in

753
00:39:09.610 --> 00:39:12.019
the car, up in the woods, in the rain.

754
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:14.559
And when he elaborated on.

755
00:39:14.539 --> 00:39:17.559
The story at a later point, he talked about seeing

756
00:39:17.619 --> 00:39:20.539
Jack waking up and seeing Jack chasing a female.

757
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:20.940
Around the vehicle.

758
00:39:21.739 --> 00:39:25.309
The interesting part of that to me is that in 2010,

759
00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:28.590
after I released the findings on Jack's handwriting and Debra

760
00:39:28.630 --> 00:39:31.670
Perez came out as a false suspect with Burt Baggett

761
00:39:31.710 --> 00:39:35.750
and one of the family comrades that was a disported

762
00:39:35.769 --> 00:39:38.050
attorney and they took him on the steps.

763
00:39:37.659 --> 00:39:41.610
Of the Chronicle, she told the exact same story.

764
00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:44.960
Okay, so this is what I was going to tell you.

765
00:39:44.980 --> 00:39:51.599
When I just heard that, Dennis' story, It literally brought

766
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:55.030
me back to that documentary that they did on Arthur

767
00:39:55.050 --> 00:39:59.289
Lee Allen. And in that documentary, there was like a

768
00:39:59.329 --> 00:40:01.969
visual that they did of him running around in the

769
00:40:01.989 --> 00:40:07.150
car chasing a woman. Literally the same description. That's literally

770
00:40:07.170 --> 00:40:09.150
what my brain went to. And I was like, what

771
00:40:09.190 --> 00:40:10.219
the F?

772
00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:14.940
And Dennis was the first person to say this in 2000.

773
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:18.719
So this is all circa 2000, these law enforcement files

774
00:40:18.739 --> 00:40:19.519
or audio files.

775
00:40:20.949 --> 00:40:23.329
So, yeah, I do. I take huge note to that

776
00:40:23.369 --> 00:40:23.969
kind of stuff.

777
00:40:24.010 --> 00:40:26.949
Let me get one more in real quick on Ken

778
00:40:26.989 --> 00:40:30.980
Hitmeyer and having an additional letter of Jack's.

779
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:32.030
Mm hmm.

780
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:37.059
Hey, kid.

781
00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:38.699
Nicky. Dennis Coffin here.

782
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:39.440
Hello, Dennis.

783
00:40:39.699 --> 00:40:44.380
What's going on? Well, I don't know. Nothing's changed since

784
00:40:44.420 --> 00:40:46.860
I talked to you the last time. Yeah? The guy

785
00:40:46.900 --> 00:40:48.900
needed to talk to Chris. I haven't seen him. I

786
00:40:48.940 --> 00:40:51.559
had to go to a hearing that just finished. That

787
00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:53.940
was an unrelated matter. But I just got out of

788
00:40:53.980 --> 00:40:55.000
court just a few minutes ago.

789
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:55.619
Yeah.

790
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:57.320
So I haven't had a chance to talk to Chris today.

791
00:40:57.760 --> 00:40:58.019
Okay.

792
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:03.349
Uh-huh. going back. Well, no, I'm not going to. I'm sorry.

793
00:41:03.630 --> 00:41:05.849
You know, in the beginning, before I even called you guys,

794
00:41:05.929 --> 00:41:07.530
I talked to a man in Kelly Carroll in San

795
00:41:07.550 --> 00:41:08.710
Francisco at the very beginning.

796
00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:11.460
Oh, that's the guy, the detective? Yeah, he's on the

797
00:41:27.849 --> 00:41:30.989
I told him, I said, I heard, you know, I

798
00:41:30.989 --> 00:41:32.719
don't know what's going on, but this case is hard

799
00:41:32.739 --> 00:41:32.909
on me.

800
00:41:32.969 --> 00:41:35.320
I explained to the situation. I said, I got to know.

801
00:41:35.579 --> 00:41:37.360
I don't care who does it.

802
00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:37.820
I don't care.

803
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.219
I'm not even in Texas. I can care less. But

804
00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:59.219
the thing is, I just wanted to get that. any

805
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.480
specific evidence? He said he didn't get anything from you guys.

806
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:03.739
Except for, well, a letter that said that I had

807
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:04.460
compelling evidence.

808
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:06.480
That's all he said. Well, we sent him the letter that,

809
00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:08.559
one of the letters that you sent also. He has

810
00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:10.929
someone that's not part of law enforcement. He might be

811
00:42:10.989 --> 00:42:13.130
unwilling to tell you just what he has or what

812
00:42:13.170 --> 00:42:17.210
he doesn't have. You know, he doesn't know who you are. Well,

813
00:42:17.250 --> 00:42:20.190
he knew exactly who I was. Well, okay. But I mean,

814
00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:33.980
I don't understand that. I don't understand why he Yeah,

815
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:36.920
I don't blame you.

816
00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:42.980
Well, you know, he's the guy.

817
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.500
We have to deal with, Dennis. If you can make

818
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:47.500
an impelling argument to him that you've got a pretty

819
00:42:47.539 --> 00:42:50.679
viable case, I mean, I'm all for it. And here again,

820
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.429
I don't really care either who gets this thing pushed.

821
00:42:53.969 --> 00:43:04.550
But if you think that it's... and run it in

822
00:43:04.699 --> 00:43:06.969
a test. Did you call him or did he call you? Oh,

823
00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:10.409
I just did. Yesterday, out of the blue, I just said,

824
00:43:10.510 --> 00:43:12.269
I just patiently said, my name is Dennis.

825
00:43:12.380 --> 00:43:12.760
Oh, okay.

826
00:43:13.050 --> 00:43:14.800
If you have any questions, call me. I just wanted,

827
00:43:14.860 --> 00:43:16.739
I didn't, one thing about Zodiac, I figured if he

828
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:29.380
knew who I was, he'd call me. Well, I don't

829
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:30.780
know what they think. You know, I just figure I

830
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.039
have a right to know. I mean, maybe I don't,

831
00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:36.619
but I feel I do. That's the guy that we've

832
00:43:36.820 --> 00:43:39.460
sent our material to. And if you'd like to speak

833
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:42.570
to him in person and make your pitch directly to him,

834
00:43:42.610 --> 00:43:44.530
I mean, I've got no problem with that.

835
00:43:44.570 --> 00:43:46.590
That's what I'm checking with you because, I mean, as

836
00:43:46.610 --> 00:43:48.750
far as I know, you guys have been treating me good.

837
00:43:48.789 --> 00:44:02.739
We're not hiding anything. what you've got, then, yeah, I'm

838
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.760
all for it. Go right ahead.

839
00:44:03.780 --> 00:44:03.969
Okay.

840
00:44:04.340 --> 00:44:04.699
All right.

841
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:06.639
Well, I just want to make sure, because he's definitely willing.

842
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:09.639
He's more than anxious to talk to me. Is he really? Yeah. Well,

843
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:11.980
that must not be a good sign. And, you know,

844
00:44:12.019 --> 00:44:14.420
it sounds like he'll be able to get things done.

845
00:44:14.739 --> 00:44:17.860
So, you know, if I wouldn't, you know, interrupt anything

846
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:19.480
you guys got going on, you know what I mean,

847
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:20.460
if it expedites things.

848
00:44:20.489 --> 00:44:22.070
I mean, I don't know. But that is what we've

849
00:44:22.110 --> 00:44:25.610
got going on is asking him to see if they

850
00:44:25.630 --> 00:44:54.699
can All right. Okay, real quick.

851
00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:57.619
So that was South Lake Tahoe, please?

852
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.840
No, no, that was Ken Hitmeyer, the agent that is

853
00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:03.480
a partner to Chris Hawkins.

854
00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:04.980
Okay, all right.

855
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:09.960
So you heard him say, we sent one letter, some

856
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.760
letters to the SFPD to be tested, and we still

857
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:17.949
have one. So at what point when SFPD was dragging

858
00:45:17.989 --> 00:45:22.130
their feet, did they hesitate and not test that other

859
00:45:22.170 --> 00:45:22.929
letter that they have?

860
00:45:23.829 --> 00:45:26.090
It sounds like they're barking up the wrong tree anyway.

861
00:45:26.110 --> 00:45:29.769
Because there's evidence that he's pulling the DNA.

862
00:45:29.789 --> 00:45:31.409
They're not going to get a clean test.

863
00:45:32.210 --> 00:45:34.989
Well, we didn't know that at that time. At that time,

864
00:45:35.070 --> 00:45:37.679
Dennis had submitted it. It's been more than six months.

865
00:45:38.420 --> 00:45:41.340
SMPD is tossing the ball at the FBI saying they

866
00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:43.820
never sent me anything. The FBI is saying we most

867
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:47.300
definitely sent them Jack's letters for DNA testing. And they

868
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.699
also stated they have a turnaround of 30 days and

869
00:45:50.739 --> 00:45:51.929
they have additional letters.

870
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.500
So the bottom line is, it's like, who's got the ball?

871
00:45:55.539 --> 00:45:56.199
Who's got the ball?

872
00:45:56.719 --> 00:46:00.780
Now, Ken Hitmeyer doesn't sound as cordial, obviously, as Chris Hopkins.

873
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:03.340
And Ken Hitmeyer was not there when I entered into

874
00:46:03.380 --> 00:46:08.039
the case in 2009. I only ever dealt with Chris Hopkins. So...

875
00:46:08.889 --> 00:46:11.750
I just thought that that was interesting to note that

876
00:46:12.110 --> 00:46:16.170
you've got two agents saying they sent the information to SFPD,

877
00:46:16.409 --> 00:46:19.210
SFPD denying that they had received it. Now, they may

878
00:46:19.250 --> 00:46:21.070
not be able to give Dennis answers, but they could

879
00:46:21.110 --> 00:46:23.400
certainly say, yes, we received that from the FBI.

880
00:46:24.139 --> 00:46:26.659
Correct. Yeah. Was it from the FBI or was it?

881
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.380
Well, they could. Chris Hopkins said that they could do

882
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.079
a turnaround in 30 days. So this is my question.

883
00:46:33.219 --> 00:46:36.320
If they have more letters from Jack, why didn't they

884
00:46:36.429 --> 00:46:40.849
continue to do it aside from what SFPD was supposedly doing?

885
00:46:40.869 --> 00:46:43.510
They have both testings.

886
00:46:46.019 --> 00:46:46.400
Exactly.

887
00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:49.039
That's what I was going to say. We are down

888
00:46:49.059 --> 00:46:51.119
to our final seconds here, but I would love to

889
00:46:51.179 --> 00:46:53.570
come back, comment on this more. And we have additional

890
00:46:53.610 --> 00:46:55.869
law enforcement audios we'll listen to next week.

891
00:46:55.889 --> 00:46:58.860
You guys, thank you for being here and all your support.

892
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:00.099
Everybody take care.

893
00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:02.059
Have a great weekend and we'll see you next Friday.

894
00:47:03.309 --> 00:47:03.929
Yes, girl.

895
00:47:04.030 --> 00:47:06.489
And those are crucial. I'm so glad you have them.

896
00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:10.010
So I'm excited. Oh, oh, real quick. They removed them

897
00:47:10.050 --> 00:47:12.969
from the internet, guys. I'm going to leave everybody. You

898
00:47:12.989 --> 00:47:15.219
cannot go to these links anymore and find them on

899
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.400
the internet. So everybody, what you're seeing up here is

900
00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:20.000
a link does not exist. Take care. See you guys

901
00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:20.579
next Friday.

902
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:37.800
Thank you.