Linguistic Comparison of Communications, Part 2

0:22 Good morning, true seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Road Jack, Finding the Zodiac. We are getting back to the linguistics and the statements that were made in the communications across 60 years in different crime sprees to see the connectivity and the things that the author and the killer have to say. Well, it could be the author and not the killer. Like we said, there's just multiple ways this thing could have gone down. But the communications were definitely written by one person and they all seem to link from one crime to the next. Uh, we left off last week talking with Sean C1P1 and, and I say talking with, but really just reading his YouTube messages. And one final response that I had was that, um, when Dennis's family came to stay there with, um, I think it was Iowa Des Moines.

1:20 Yes. Um, that he was 10 and at the time, or he's now 60, and at the time, Post's posse was in their teens and now they're in their late 60s, which is naturally presumable. But late 60s, I mean, even when I think about that, that puts them, gosh, if my math is correct, we're going to say they were late 60s. Even then, that means that they were born at some point in the 60s So, I mean, I'm not doubting that these individuals couldn't have come on and been inducted into this whole entire thing later than obviously Jack was, but they definitely were not Jack's age. So I still have a hard time kind of placing them in there chronologically. But again, I'm not saying that this isn't true because I don't really have any background on these people. So one of the things that I actually put together the last time was the stamps program. And I started looking at the relation to the stamps because there seemed to be some postal connection, including postmarks or delivery that was not stamped properly, improper postage, no postage, all of these things finding its way around through the mail system, which we use to us as a normal person.

2:44 And some of these, I'm pretty sure that they were walked in and stamped properly. at the post office. And one of the letters that did not have stamps appeared to have been hand stamped at the post office. So again, who would do this? Or does that literally mean that the Zodiac Killer was also in possession of a cancellation stamp? So we just don't know. But to take a look at all of the stamps that we have in the collection, we start back with Elizabeth Short. Um, let's see here. Now, of course, some of these stamps, we can't really quite make out. And it looks like they're doing some hand cancellations here on these way back in the forties. But as we move into Oswald and to Sherry, Joe Bates, we start to see the duplication of stamps that are placed on these communications. Um, it looks like this one was a George Washington. I don't know that I was able to determine who this was here. Um, And again, the deer draft boards are a little bit blurry, but as we get into the Zodiac Killer, that's really kind of the one that kind of comes through because we see it being used from 1968 to 1974. We see it used on the letter mailed to Mr. Adams in Redding, California.

4:02 Let's see here. We see it continued to be used in the Fairfield letters. Hmm. Looks like this is the Halloween greeting card. On down. Let's see here. Something to do with presidents, obviously. I mean, I have to believe that you had other options. I hear something in the background. Is that Nolan? Hi. Good morning, Nolan. Good morning. I'm wearing your barriers. But I'm in. I thought as we were winding down all this.

4:47 Oh, the Berryessa. Oh, yeah. Berryessa Brewery. Berryessa, yeah. Yeah, it's a small world. Right? And I saw that it is Winters, so I know Winters is probably about 40 minutes, but it's not quite Lake Berryessa-ish, right? No, it's on the way to Berryessa. Gotcha. It's, uh, right? It's because, uh, Pewter Creek flows from Mariesa through Davis all the way into, like, Sacramento River, right? You follow Pewter Creek, you get up to Mariesa.

5:32 Gotcha. Okay. Pewter. Pewter. Pewter. Pewter Creek. And the Davis Law School, where I went, is on Pewter Creek. Oh, okay. So that's why you were out in that area. So I was just catching up back on the stamps now. So showing the connectivity just between the postaging of these particular communications, the overpostaging, as we can see in some where six stamps are placed on one. Mostly they were duplicates. We do see one over here with four of them on there. And I want to say these were Truman stamps. Can you see these images? I want to see if I can't blow that up. Or is it Roosevelt? Maybe it's Roosevelt.

6:13 I don't know. Big old monitor for my laptop. Not my laptop, my desktop. My laptop, I'm limited in my size of my monitor. So it's hard to see some of the images. I see Eisenhower. Yeah, I see Eisenhower too. That's the one I can read. It is big enough. But obviously he had some affinity for the presidents. And this may play right into what Harriet Suchet was saying in regards to the ciphering of the letters and the author trying to reach out to politicians. And we even seen letters in these communications that were specifically targeting politicians such as uh, the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases where he mentions, and it's a poem style reference, which is something that I, I quote, you can see through all of these communications all the way into the finale letter, um, where he's saying politicians are running around with their heads cut off like chickens, which unless he had something on them or there was, you know, if he, if he wasn't that information bomb, why would anybody fear or worry about him at all period?

7:22 Quick comment on the Atlanta child killings. It's how convenient it was for the law enforcement to blame it all on one guy who may have killed somebody but didn't kill any kids and then just let it go. It's done. It's over. The people that are responsible for the killing of those kids are still at large. 100%. It was a group of people. It wasn't just one person. It's terrible. It's terrible. The author was trying to steer it towards a African-American. The police were trying to steer it towards an African-American. So even when one of the victims, a little girl had called from a home number of somebody in Atlanta, Georgia to her, to her mother or her family home and indicated that a nice white man. Now, how do you get a child, an African-American child to lie for you?

8:20 I mean, I think that would have set them automatically on some type of a, oh my gosh, what's going on here? Because I'm being told to say something that's the opposite of what I see. And when they said I was offered a ride by a nice white man, the police believed or tried to tell the public that they were being told that so that it would steer away from an African-American. The police were stupid in this. It should be an ongoing investigation. Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, and I saw this with a lot of the people they tried to pin all of these murders on, including Henry Lee Lucas, where, yes, he was responsible for killing one person and then, you know, collectively took credit for almost 200 crimes across the United States. And when he finally got called out by an attorney or a district attorney, I should say, that it was not possible for him to have been in the location he claims to have been in, it really showed that the Texas Rangers were feeding the evidence to Henry Lee Lucas in order to be able to take credit for these crimes, number one. Number two, it shows that they're willing to attempt to close all these crimes on one person. And there's got to be some push for that. You don't just do that just because or to knock them off the books.

9:38 Either you're lazy, you're incompetent, or you're trying to hide something. You know, I say that about some of the fellow document examiners in the industry. I'm like, either you're uneducated or you're a hired gun. You've only got two choices, especially when you know they're lying directly to the court about the facts of the handwriting. Well, they don't do it for free. No, they don't. Hi, Linz Mac. Hi, Linzy. I thought I heard her faintly. Yeah, she might have us on mute. for whatever's going on in the background. Now, interesting enough, we see the crossover from the Jolly Roger greeting cards in the Zodiac stuff to... The D.B. Cooper case, look at that. We've got another Eisenhower. Is that just a coincidence? No Eisenhower?

10:42 Okay, yeah. Well, but that's what I'm saying. There's always some type of cross-connection between the communications that suggests we're dealing with the same author. Or the same group of people. Same group. Yeah, same group. I still think it's mob-like, in which case the person who forges documents is the only person forging documents for the group. So if there's an author to be writing for a group, it's one author. And that really is meant to skew the forensics. Like I said, once again, there are people who have believed that the Zodiac had taken credit for crimes he did not commit. Um, when looking at the bigger picture, that kind of more solidifies that we have one person writing as the author to skew the forensics in the case, because the handwriting is not going to match the DNA, the fingerprints or anything else that's found at the.

11:32 Seam of the crime. That's going to confuse things a little bit more, but along, along with the crossover of the Eisenhower stamp, we also had the, um, the historic trolley train stamp from San Francisco, um, So it, I mean, when I looked at the DB Cooper letters, they're mailed. First one is mailed out of, I believe Modesto. And then they, yep. And then they move out of the area. And then we see one from Vancouver, Washington after the crime. And then we come back and we see things coming from Reno and from Sacramento. And they're trying to claim that this individual is a, citizen of Oregon. Well, they obviously have some affinity with San Francisco. And when you blow this trolley train stamp up, you've got a Navy guy on one side and you've got a guy with a briefcase, a tie and sunglasses on the other side. And to me, that screams D.B.

12:32 Cooper and the possibility. I mean, what were the chances you'd get both a Navy guy and somebody who looks like D.B. Cooper on this trolley train stamp? Dan Cooper. but Modesto is not too far from where that woman was, uh, almost kidnapped and her woman and her child. Kathleen Jones. Exactly. Yeah. That's not the freeway. She was on the back roads outside of Modesto when she, she had that situation go down with her car. Right. And I want to say that what they have from a dust, it was the cutouts of either the Modesto B or something like that, that was used for the actual creation of the letter itself. Um, So it's a little deeper than just, oh, they mailed it out of this area. I mean, they literally used something from that area.

13:20 Aside from the findings that the Playboy magazine had been used for a cut and paste job in a pretty major communication. Just a little aside. I published an article in the Modesto news article one time. I was a journalist. But what was it on? The DMV or something. I forget what it was. It was like 30 years ago. 35 years ago. But if you only ever did it once, you think you'd remember? No, I actually, what it was, I got an interview and a tryout with the paper. They wanted to hire me. And I published it then hiring someone else. I was only like 22 at the time. So that was 40 years.

14:11 Let's not say that again out loud. Then our next set of stamps that we see have some actual crossovers are the bell, Liberty Bell, that's used on the herb cane. Now, of course, they've always tried to state that this was a fake letter, that this was a copycat not written by the Zodiac. I highly disbelieve that altogether. But the Liberty Bell stamp. Then we cross over into Atlanta, Texas. Child Atlanta Georgia child killer and we see the eagle stamp now carrying on with that as we go into more of the Atlanta Georgia killer stuff we see the four pack of stamps that were sold together so now we can make an identification of the eagle stamp. used in May of 1978 in the Atlanta, Georgia child killer case.

15:02 We can see the Liberty Bell that was used in the Herb Cain letter on April of 1978. So it is consistent that these communications are being mailed at the same time using the same style and book of stamps. Now is this, I'm trying to see, that's a 22. Oh, I need some glasses. Okay. And that's a 15. Okay. So The Sacramento stamp is a flag stamp, but it's a 22 cent, so it is not consistent with the flag that is included in the four pack. But to continue on, we see why I put these in here. So these are communications I do not have, but we know that they exist. And this is in February of 1988, accompanying sheet of graph paper bearing the hand-printed letter front and back, beginning, this is the Zodiac. Now, the one thing I want to mention about graph paper is that we saw that was something that Jack heavily used for whatever reason when he was making notes in regards to busting people at Hewlett-Packard.

16:06 He used graph paper to write on. So it does not shock me. And this is that time frame. Jack was at Hewlett-Packard from 1983 to 1990 or so around there, because I know by 92, I believe he was out of the era, separated from Nora once again. But it goes on to say, envelope postmarked Chattanooga, Tennessee, buried in the hand-printed address McDonald's. Now, of course, the reason why I pulled this one out is because Harriet strongly believed that she was targeted at McDonald's. And instead of her getting the mail with whatever was inside of that envelope that ended up killing her coworker because her coworker was there that day.

16:50 So she thinks it was anthrax too, right? And she thinks her father, who was a merchant marine, was a target as well because he opened some package in the kitchen. This is what she tells us. He opened a package in the kitchen and where he sat is basically where he ended up emulsifying and bleeding out everywhere. So she presumed that it was also anthrax. And that is because the dog became very ill. And when taken to the vet was given Cipro and Cipro is the common medication given for people who come into contact with anthrax.

17:32 So is that freaky? Real quick. Have you had any communications with Harriet in the last year or so? I have not. I have not. Wow. I think we should have her on as a guest one of these times. I mean, she was helpful and just, she just kind of, you know, went a little wild or whatever. I don't know, but. Well, we were having a, um, uh, a parting of ways based on the fact that she would not concede that there were additional pages to the, um, letters to John Walsh. So in these, uh, scorpion letters there, it was very obvious that we were looking at page one that had a following page because the sentence wasn't completed, or they, we were looking at page two, which means that there was a page one that, um, was subsequent or that was, um, Missing as well. And we know that John Walsh made statements that he was receiving threats through these communications. And quite frankly, in the, in the pages that we've seen, we've not seen any direct threats towards him. So maybe those are the pages that are withheld and, and me standing on the maybe part of things.

18:43 I really kind of tend to believe that there are some missing pages, but when I asked her how that affects the solve, since she only has a portion of, Um, she was, she tried to tell me and stand firm on the fact that there were no other pages. And I just find that hard to believe. And her making that statement makes absolutely no sense because she has no way of knowing that. Why be so adamant when it's nobody knows for sure. Exactly. And that's all I tried to get here. Yeah, that's all I tried to get her to concede to, and she wouldn't. She got so hot. She got so mad. And I think it was because. Of the media. Right. Like, I'm questioning the solve because we should be able to say that there is a possibility there are other pages and that this solve could be larger. And she just wanted to say, nope, that's all there is. And I couldn't do that.

19:33 You've got to be open-minded. I see your point. But I like Harriet. Anyway, a friend of mine got a job at Lake County Public Defender's Office. So I'm going to go up there and visit him soon. Maybe I'll look her up. I think she ended up in Santa Rosa. Oh, she moved. Okay. Yeah. Absolutely. That wild accident when she got dragged by a car or something. Oh my God. A truck. Yeah. Oh God. And then told that she had no recourse that it was her fault because she walked against the light. Whatever. Oh, excuse my language. All right. So it says accompanying from entitled McDonald's profile change notice, hearing the hand-printed message beginning, this is shit.

20:16 Envelope Postmark Chattanooga, Tennessee, February 1988, bearing the printed address McDonald's to Northgate Park, Chattanooga, Tennessee. So I don't really have much more on that one. And then we have one to Ambler Tours, which is an envelope Postmark Los Angeles, California. That's a very typical place for Zodiac to write. Postmark Los Angeles, March 7th of 1986. Bearing the hand-printed address, Ambler Tours, 1010 2nd Avenue, Suite 1900, San Diego, California, 92101. So it's mailed out of Los Angeles or postmarked in Los Angeles and mailed to San Diego. Accompanying a hand-printed letter, bearing and printing beginning, high blank, we are. So why are they hiding this from us? And I get it.

21:07 This is, they're doing an examination. So I often do this when I notate in my opinion letters. and I identify, say, a question document, such as Q1 or Q2, and you can kind of see that here to the left, I will put beginning, but I usually write the entire sentence out. So it would be interesting to figure out what these letters were and why they became important to the case, especially since- I think we might have- Hey, can y'all hear me now? Yeah. Can you hear me now? Okay, yeah, I had to refresh because I didn't, I could hear y'all, but y'all couldn't hear me. Yeah. Okay, we can hear you, Daryl. We can see your little image, too. Right?

21:49 All right, so another notable similarity in communications, which, again, there's a possibility the Bruce Ivins card was a taunt there at the end, but I did find that this actual stamp was very consistent from the Bruce Ivins greeting card to the Tim Miller greeting. Uh, finale letter again, very similar timeframes. This is September of 2005. Um, I don't know if I remember what Bruce Ivan's date was on it. I just put in here 2006, but we then get into the Tom Voight stamps and we see the taxi cab stamp from Thailand. Uh, we see, I'm sorry, from, I think this one would have been, uh, Malaysia. Okay.

22:32 Okay. And then we have a postmark from Thailand, which looks like he purchased a printed stamp. Is that $ 28 to mail from Thailand? Well, maybe it was a Thai money. So it probably converts to way less than that. Gotcha. Gotcha. Or airmail could be expensive. Who knows? I mean, I know it is today. If you tried to do an airmail, you're probably looking. At $ 60, $ 70. Yeah. Either way. Way back when. That was like 25 years ago almost. Right. Now, so I guess I hopped. I did blow these up for people to be able to look at. And the way that I determined that there was a possibility that this was, in fact, the same stamp from Bruce Ivins to Tim Miller was the placement of the stars.

23:24 We can see the 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. And then there's one off to the right. which in this particular stamp you can see. So we've got the one, two, three. We've got that one in the center. We've got the two at the top, which is very consistent with this. And we also see this crisscrossing point, which is made to look like the flag is actually rippling. Yeah. You mean the one that stood straight and flat all by itself? Yeah. So, OK, is that the Eiffel Tower? Why is the Eiffel Tower by the American flag? That doesn't make any sense.

24:06 Eiffel Tower. This, I think, is a spaceship. Oh, I thought it was Eiffel Tower. I think this is more of like a NASA thing. I don't know. Harriet probably would have known. That's for sure. But I did see also this stamp and oh, this this is why it's OK. So it's not this. This is the cancellation stamp. So so for for something on Earth is their cancellation stamp. And I think this is probably some type of a NASA thing. But this flag right here in the Atlanta child Georgia killer case is this flag right here. So now we've got the bell, the eagle, and the flag. And the only thing we didn't actually see used was Liberty. Lady Liberty.

24:55 And then we got two Eisenhowers down below. Yep. And one's from Zodiac and one's from D.B. Cooper. And of course, like I. Said, Zodiac was quite familiar with Southern California. And I think Jack was too. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. He traveled in and out of it so much and was, you know, residents in those locales at different times, especially when he was doing like firefighter training or TV repair automotive. Well, I think automotive repair, he did it in Texas, but also when he was state, well, when he was in the military, he at one point in time lived in the Riverside area and then returned to Riverside where his brother was after, being out of the military for quite some time. So he's very familiar with the Southern California area, more so than most of us, that's for sure.

25:47 All right. Where are we at? So here are additional... And what happens in between the time, real quick, in between the. Time Sherry Jo Bates is killed, in between Sherry Jo Bates and the Zodiac crimes, Robert Kennedy shot in the head in June of 1968. Yes. In L.A., Ambassador Hotel. And anyone that believes that Sirhan Sirhan killed Kitty is wrong. Sirhan Sirhan was a hypnosis victim. He was MK Ultra, the whole bit. He may have fired brakes that day. I don't think he even fired bullets. Right. Anyway, it's a little aside. Yeah, it is very, yeah, suggestive of the timing. Um, and so in 68, Jack would have been in Nyack at that point in time, but always on the move.

26:38 He's a top, a tow truck driver, you know, never going to be missed at his job. But, um, we have here, I started to map out the places that these communications were mailed to. And so starting back with Bowerdorf, it went to the Los Angeles police, which is very much what Black Dahlia did. In the Lipstick Killer case, it's to Mayor Kelly Roosevelt and the OPA, which is the Office of Price Administration, who handles what I was told by Harriet was rationing of meat during that time frame to the Indians. Yeah, often they would be... given rancid meat that wasn't any good and they weren't even capable of eating it. But then there was also a meat shortage, I want to say. So there was some black market meat stuff going on. There was a whole lot of, you know, nasty business back in that day.

27:33 It seemed like meat was that commodity that made everybody crazy. And there are a lot of connections, relations back and things like that between the LA murders, the Dahlia group of murders. It wasn't just one. And then the lipstick murders. There's a lot of clues that tend to maybe link the two murders, or not the two, the two groups of murders. Right. Well, and between those, with the lipstick killers and things like... what we see in the Elizabeth short case is, and the Bauerdorf is the promise to turn oneself in usually at a local pub, but they never actually show up.

28:18 So I, you know, I never seen any information on whether or not the cops showed up and posted up waiting for this person or what went down about it. But the killer often liked to write that he would meet up and tell all at a local watering hole. We saw that all the way through Oakland County child killers, uh, where, again, the supposed slave, which was interesting, of Allen, A-L-L-E-N, tie back to Arthur Lee Allen, I'm sure, indicated that he would also tell all on this person who he was scared of, but he never showed up. And that was all messing with Dr. Danto, again, the psychotherapist, which we were just, you know, looking at last week, the affiliation with him and possibly the CIA and MKUltra and being part of all of this mess. Let's see. And as early as the lipstick... So also the lipstick killer wrote.

29:16 He was sorry to get old, sick Dagnon instead of his girl. So he was really, I guess, supposedly stating that he was looking to get Dagnon's father, but not her. But you climbed through her window. You left with her. You didn't make any attempt to go through the house and find Dagnon himself. So it sounds to me like this was just another one of those mob things. We're going to take out a member of your family. and then you're going to conform and do what it is that we tell. You to do yeah much like sherry joe bates. Right Also, he starts in 4546, do not notify FBI or police. This is something that we often hear in kidnapping cases. Don't notify or your child's dead. Just get me the money. And usually there's a ransom that's involved.

30:01 And in Dagenham, there was a ransom note. But just like JonBenet Ramsey, she was already dead before the note was even found. So that... Literally was not a ransom note. This was a message to the family for something that they're up to or against or not participating in the way this group feels they should be. So we see this shout out to them and then the loss of some family member. Also, there were surgical things done to her body. Why is that good? Yeah, yeah. Just like Elizabeth Short and some of the other girls in murders. Yeah. And her being beheaded, so Dagnon being beheaded, and her body parts being found on Hollywood Boulevard. Meanwhile, Black Dahlia body parts are found off of Dagnon Boulevard in Hollywood.

30:52 And then we have the ransom. Note from Humphrey Ramsey. That says that he's going to behead her, which, of course, Dagnon was beheaded. So, again, all the tiebacks. In the Elizabeth Short, he was constantly writing the LA Examiner, the Los Angeles Herald and Express. The Sorry Mary letter was just to make it look like he walked off into the ocean and committed suicide. It was evidently found with clothing on the beach. And to whom it may concern, I can't help myself for what I've done, basically, or what I'm about to do right now. I'm trying to make it look like he committed suicide by walking off into what? The billowy waves. And the billowy waves is a typical poem that the Zodiac wrote in one of his communications. So there's a tie in there. The Oswald case, it was written to the Dallas police and it called out Howard Spencer and link Ruby to Oswald, which we already know, right? I mean, and Ruby being the one that gets, makes it into the police department and shoots.

32:06 Ruby was friends with a lot of the cops. Ruby was friends with everybody. The press, Dallas Morning News, the police, they knew him on a first-name basis. Yeah, well, I'm sure he's on the take and he's protecting them for something or they're protecting him and vice versa. A lot of them went to his clubs and used his girls. A lot of his girls were prostitutes as well as dancers. Well, when we get into Sherry Jo Bates, we see that, again, it's to the editor. we want to say press enterprise, which is the Riverside newspaper. He wrote to Joseph Bates, which was a family member, just like, you know, writing the ransom note.

32:51 Yeah. The dad, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then to the chief of police. So basically using a teletype piece of paper in triplicate form with carbon papers, he made three communications, just like the three handwritten communications where Bates had to die and So we're seeing triplicate form that crosses over into Zodiac because we see things in triplicate form. And that tells me that he's kind of at the height of his ego in completing these communications because he's willing to take the chance of being caught by doing more than just one. Yes.

33:33 The Dear Draft Board, local draft board, number 58, is written to the Dear Draft Board, of course, in the guise of somebody who was from Vietnam, but basically complaining about all the things that had occurred and taken place, drugs that they'd been given, headaches they're having, issues and problems that are not being handled mentally, which kind of plays right on into that whole MKUltra stuff that Harriet was talking about and some of the solves we've seen by Lauren swearing them. In 1968 to 74... Also, was it. Huh? Was it Jack's son in Vietnam? Yes. 100%. Okay. No connection. Well, a lot of people were in Vietnam, so... Right, right.

34:19 I had uncles that were there. Yeah, tens of thousands. My father and uncles were there as well, so... 1968 to 74, Zodiac Killer is writing to the Vallejo Times... to the San Francisco Chronicle, to Melvin Belli, which I believe has also been placed into this neat little group. He was Ruby's lawyer. And F. Lee Bailey being one of his former partners, and then the matchup between. He was a lawyer in the DeSalvo case, which also involved hypnosis and mind control. Oh, gosh. That's how Wesley Bailey got his first Boston Strangler, DeSalvo.

35:01 And whose name is in Sir Hans Rand's book? DeSalvo. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just a nice, tight little group there. Yeah, it's like ongoing because they keep getting away with it. So they keep going on and on. They keep linking back. You know, it's like Zodiac style, you know, just clue, clue, clue, clue, clue, link back, link back, references. And it's, oh, I'm just, I mean, they're being cute. They like being cute. Melvin Belli's former partner, F. Lee Bailey, was also a former partner of the Disport Attorney who came out as the, uh, uh, public speaker for Debra Perez as a fake suspect trying to claim that her former adopted father was the Zodiac Killer.

35:56 So we again still see... It was completely preposterous. And she fell off the face of the earth as quickly as she arrived. So I'm still kind of shocked that Bart is going to, you know, run a documentary and possibly a book on a completely different suspect. It just absolutely, it's mind shattering, because then it makes you want to question how well do you know your job? How many times? He's just a hired gun himself. He just, he just wants to make money and he wants fame, but he doesn't care that much about the truth. It's crazy. It was his father that actually attempted to induct me into the handwriting industry. When I first needed my own handwriting examiner. And because he did the profiling of handwriting, psychological behavior and stated that, I showed the propensity for integrity and morals and ethics that I would be perfect for the industry. And when I asked him what he means, how is that missing? He alluded to what we do call as hired guns. So it's very funny that his father would be the one that wants me to become a document examiner because of what he sees in my handwriting.

37:06 And meanwhile, his son has become the very person that he's telling me I need to combat. And that's That's not something I knew at the time. Right. I mean, wow, that's wild. Yeah. I didn't know about his dad. Wow. That's crazy. Oh, Kurt Baggett. I absolutely loved him at pieces. Now there are lots of document examiners in this industry that don't have a great taste for him. But I absolutely loved him. He was a kick in the pants. And whenever I was having issues or problems or I wanted a peer review or I wanted to talk about something to do with handwriting, he was always there. So I got a little disappointed in the last few years when I attempted to contact him and didn't receive any messages back. I wasn't sure if he was just not ill or if he was not practicing anymore. Or if because Bart and I had the falling out, he wasn't talking to me anymore because, of course, he's Bart's dad.

37:55 I don't know. Yeah, or maybe he just got old. Right, right. Um, so Zodiac killer back to them. We've got definitely written to the editor, just as we seen in some of these former communications, we've got the San Francisco examiner, the Vallejo times, Harold, uh, San Francisco chronicle, uh, San Francisco examiner, uh, Sacramento B, which obviously, you know, that is some of the, uh, letters that we have back here talking about, I think the onset of, uh, flight, uh, 305 in the D.B. Cooper case because a lot of the clues that are found in these mailings definitely do allude to that particular plane, where it was at. So we'll definitely be seeing that stuff as we move further into the linguistics. Let's see, San Francisco Chronicle. Okay, so we've got the Examiner Chronicle, L.A. Times, Paul Avery, Avery, was that his name or did he spell it incorrectly?

38:58 I think it's Avery. Avery. Gotcha. Well, he did it more than once. So either he likes to purposely mess up that guy's name. Oh, yeah. Taunting, basically. Poop, poop, poop. I think that's what he's messing me the wrong way. You're not in a situation for me to spell your name right. Yeah, you're not. Or dumbing himself down once again, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah. Trying to make it look like he doesn't know what he's, yeah, that he's not a smart cookie, but he's very much a smart cookie. Cookie. He did it on purpose, yeah. Right. So moving into the DC Freeway Phantom, it was found in the, the communication that we're discussing was found in the coat pocket of Brenda Denise Woodward addressed to no one.

39:45 And that was a very interesting communication, but it was very short and very sweet. We talked about it last week a little bit with the hyphenation of the names and the underlining and the things that we saw that was consistent throughout the communications. November... I. Just had a thought. Yeah. Real quick. You know how... San Francisco law enforcement basically usurped Vallejo and everyone else, Santa Rosa, everyone else into the Zodiac. There was only one murder, well, alleged Zodiac murder in San Francisco. The rest were in neighboring areas. Vallejo was the epicenter of Mount Diablo, Vallejo area. So why? But most communications were directed to the Chronicle. Was the Zodiac trying to move things that way in order to get the Santa Rosa people and other investigative agencies off the main case? And maybe the Zodiac wanted to take over. I don't know.

40:50 Yeah. My theory in regards to the San Francisco mailings is that this is his connection to getting that information out there. I was going to. Say that we have to look at the owner of that media outlet. Hearst. No, Hearst didn't own the Chronicle. He owned the Examiner. Examiner, right. But he wrote both. He wrote Chronicle and. He wrote Examiner. Right. The Chronicle, at that time, was overtaking the Examiner in popularity in San Francisco. Back in the day, it was the Hearst Papers, but the Chronicle slowly but surely, it used to be considered a rag, actually, but slowly but surely, the Chronicle got bigger and bigger, and Herb King, and Count Marco, and they all wrote for the Chronicle. And Gray Smith was a cartoonist at the Chronicle. So, anyway, and I think Paul A. was a writer at the Chronicle, too.

41:48 Well, and we've seen all the way up into today's media that when fake news is being had, it's usually benefiting one side or the next. But they are the ones that are controlling the narrative of what people see, read, and believe. So, again, just fits right on into that tight-knit little group of what their whole agenda was. Create the serial killer. And I thought that Harriet had mentioned at one point in time that the Chronicle was owned by K-Ron, which was a news outlet. K-R-O-N? Yeah. Yeah, it's a TV station.

42:32 TV station. All right. So it all just goes back to those in the know, those that I call the syndicate, the mob, the mafia, the elite, those that would have every purpose to boost their sales in newspapers by having this type of a program go off and then just blaming it on some random serial killer. But we can see already we're up into, you know, 1970s that these are definitely connective programs. based on just the limited amount of information I've given you so far. Well, I was going to say it also not only benefits them financially, but it also benefits them getting the public into fear and being scared. In that vulnerable state of mind, which is part of the mind control, they have to get you into that emotional state in order for you to easily believe things that they're telling you.

43:31 I think that's a good point. I think, like, Zodiac, Symbody's Liberation Army, a lot of these MKUltra-type thing, Manson, it's about putting fear in the communities, which allows the powers that be make harsher laws and restrict our freedoms more. Well, and this is I think this is how this case got labeled by the FBI is extortion. So that always bothered me. The FBI did not list this file as a serial killer, which rightfully so they should have. I mean, we're seeing multiple murders right across jurisdictions. But they label it as an extortion file. And I think that's kind of how I came to the conclusion that the Zodiac was killing so he could write. And he was extorting them for front page access, obviously, to get his message through. So... What's that?

44:22 I don't think it was, I mean, extortion of other things, but not necessarily money. He wasn't killing to make money. No, he was killing to extort newspapers for front page access. Right. But was he really extorting them? Was he really extorting them when they were making millions of dollars. Off of these headlines? No, no. They were good for each other. That's the Hegelian argument. That's the Hegelian argument. That's definitely what that stands for is they create a crisis and no matter what the outcome is, they win. So if we go left, they win. We go right, they win.

45:06 They know that no matter what happens, they are going to be happy with the end results. And that's what we see in these communications to these newspapers. So D.B. Cooper wrote the Reno newspaper, chief editor at what's called the province, the editor for Oregonian, which Harriet, when she maps that back, maps that editor as part of this group as well. Um, Albany, New York, and then in 1973, we see that they write the times union in Albany, New York. The SLA letter was also written to the, um, editor citizen letter was written to SERS and editor of the San Francisco chronicle. Channel 9 Newsletter was written to Channel 9 News. So he's definitely hitting all of the media outlets and wanting to brag about what it is that he's doing. Again, I don't see all serial killers moving in this manner. Most of them don't want to be caught because they truly enjoyed the kill. And so if this was some type of a program to create and start... mesmerizing individuals into these types of crimes, then to me, it's no different when they put on the news, oh, we busted this person for making a pipe bomb using these materials. Why would you tell the public out loud what materials it takes to make it?

46:38 Right. And what was Nixon's campaign slogan in 68? The war on crime. Exactly. It's crazy. And again in 72. Yeah. Before that, it was just anti-communist, like Reagan. But it was like crime. And then like Reagan, the war on drugs. There's always a war on something. Well, and then. The Riverside Phantom, or yeah, the Riverside Phantom letter to Count Marco is also mailed to the editor of San Francisco Chronicle. The Christmas card for Donna Lass is mailed to a family member. The, let's see, Dr. Danto letter is actually mailed to the psychiatrist, which we saw with Mr. Adams.

47:24 So when we see Mr. Adams, the letter to Mr. Adams, it is somebody who is declaring he works for the mob. He has been a killer. He has killed people. He wants help. There's something wrong with his brain. So again, it leads back to that dear draft board letter. Like all of it just kind of blends one into the next. And I swear, if you put all of these communications together, they don't overlap. They run chronologically correct that almost tells a story of walking through this person's life and what he's been doing all these years. Herb King went to dear editor for the Vallejo and the Vallejo Police Department or to Toshi, should I say, the San Francisco PD. Yep. Atlanta, Georgia, went to the KHJ TV studios. So again, writing directly to the media. Peachtree Street also is a location for the media in Atlanta, Georgia. Let's see if I see anything different in here. John Bonilla Ramsey was written directly to Mr. Ramsey, just as Dagnon's ransom letter was written to him. We have one that's written to Senator Leahy, Senator Daschle. So now we see the politicians coming into play.

48:46 Tom Voight, somebody who's supposed to be high up there taking care of and handling, you know, the mass information and evidence in these cases to Tom Miller in regards to his daughter. But evidently there was a possibility there were two of these letters and one went to the police. police department and one went to Tim Miller. However, both have been lost. Then the Bruce Ivins greeting card, which we've seen several greeting cards that were also used in the Zodiac stuff. So we see those type of tie-ins. I think that's about all we've got. We've got about 30 seconds, you guys. Is there anything else you might want to add before we sign. Off no it went by quickly today. Yes it did well i want to thank both of you for being here then and obviously i want everybody to have an amazing weekend and we will see you next friday thank you guys for being here peace Bye.