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Aug. 28, 2026

Dennis Audio Calls with LE

Dennis Audio Calls with LE
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Dennis Kaufman records phone calls with law enforcement to investigate the investigators. Playing one against the other to see who will do their job yields. The conversations either say they are placating Dennis or there is a real force preventing them from investigating Jack W. Tarrance, Jr., as the Zodiac Killer. It’s like a parody of who’s on first, and who has the ball!!! Shows a silly game by our law enforcement, and at any time they could have ruled Jack out!

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

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WEBVTT

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Oh, oh, oh.

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Oh, oh, oh.

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Good morning, True Seekers and True Crime Junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Road Jack, Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome Nolan Del Campo to the show.

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Good morning, everyone.

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Good morning. So it looks like you're going to entertain

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us this weekend with one of your friends that are

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in a band. Do we want to give a shout

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out to them?

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Yeah, they're called Simple Solution. They're playing at the boardwalk

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not too far from your house.

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Right, right.

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You said eight o'clock on Saturday. Tomorrow, that is.

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Right.

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What type of genre?

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She's a dancer, a professional dancer. And so I said, well,

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my brother's a professional dancer. And she said, what's his name?

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I said, Mike Del Campo. And she said, he's one

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of my mentors.

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What?

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Yeah, she knows my brother really well.

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That's hilarious. Six degrees, right?

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Yeah.

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I just met this bartender named Loxy. She works at

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the Torch Club where they have live music. And she's

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from New Orleans. So I know this other bartender that

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goes to my main bar, the Old Tavern. And her

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name is Patty. And she's from New Orleans. So I

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mentioned Loxy to her. She says, I know Loxy from

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New Orleans.

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It's a small world.

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Both transplants.

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Yeah.

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Well, we are going to be climbing right back into

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this law enforcement audio that we had from Dennis Kaufman.

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Of course, as I stated, even though I have the

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URLs up here, let's go ahead and throw up the

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PowerPoint presentation. There we go. I do have the URLs

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up here, but as discussed when I attempted clicking on them,

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it shows that they are broken, so they must have

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been removed from the Internet. Good thing we still have

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them for our show. And, of course, we are going

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to kind of just cover. So last week we left

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off on Ken Hitmeyer, and he had indicated that they

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still had a letter from Jack. And, of course, while

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they're making all the fuss about how the FBI could

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have gotten it done within 30 days, SFPD is claiming

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Kelly Carroll is stating that he didn't receive anything six

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months into what Dennis perceives to be SFPD in possession

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of Jack's letter and stalling on the DNA testing. And

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of course, we heard Kelly Carroll did not seem all

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that excited to hear from Dennis or want to jump

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into his evidence with him.

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Right.

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Right.

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I mean, he sounded kind of blasé about the entire thing.

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I think he got more excited about Deborah Perez.

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Clearly giving her hundreds of hours, the fake suspect.

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Tell the truth.

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Right?

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Well, it makes you ponder. So, with the History Channel

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throwing up that Dennis Kaufman's evidence wasn't taken seriously, when

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the reality is, it seems the only people they take

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seriously is fakes and false suspects.

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It's so weird.

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I think they're kind of afraid of being exposed. It's

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such a terrible job. And now they don't want anyone

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to solve it.

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That doesn't make any sense because Kelly Carroll....

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Deborah Perez and people like that. I don't get it.

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Well, Kelly Carroll isn't from the time frame in which

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they failed to catch the killer, right? I mean, we're talking.

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It makes his office look bad, though. He's SFPD, Tosche.

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The whole bit.

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How?

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I mean, obviously, if they close the case, they're still winners.

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Right, that would make him look great. Yeah, but I

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don't know. I don't get it, like I said.

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It doesn't make any sense. The lackluster that he has

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for the evidence in this case, the testing of the DNA,

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something that could have simply helped Dennis to walk away

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from this thing six months in. We heard him saying

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it was the longest six months of his life, felt

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like six years. I'm pretty sure at that moment when

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he made that statement, he did not realize that he

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would still be in the heart of it for another

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13 to 15 years. And of course, yeah, with the

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flip-flopping around and the missing evidence and the taking of evidence.

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And sometimes I wish that he had sat down and

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cataloged it all, recorded it all, and then given it

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to one entity. And that entity that had the biggest bone, right.

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In the fight.

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And that just didn't happen. But So Ken hit Meyer

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says that they have another letter. And when I listened

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to that, it blows my mind because we hear Chris

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Hopkins saying we could do a turnaround on that envelope

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in 30 days. Well then why did you send it

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to SFPD to begin with? I mean, like you said,

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technically serial killings are FBI jurisdiction. So it's rather confusing

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the information you're being given by these entities. Um, And

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with that other letter that they had, if SFPD stalled

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for six months, nothing stopped the FBI from testing the

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other letter that they had. Right.

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They have the best facilities for testing things like that.

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Why would they send it to San Francisco to have

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it tested when they could have done it themselves?

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Right.

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Oh, and even with the handwriting, when we submitted the

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handwriting to Quantico, they It was, gosh, a good 10 months.

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We weren't getting answers back. And we would get stall

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statements like, oh, the handwriting, the handwriting expert. Like there's

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only one in the whole FBI. The handwriting expert is

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working on a terrorist case, which is priority. Well, I

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get that. Absolutely. But wasn't the Zodiac also a terrorist?

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Yeah, domestic.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, isn't there still victims, family members waiting for answers

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in regards to their loved ones? I mean, come on. Anyways,

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we're gonna start this one out. This is Tom Connor

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of South Lake Tahoe PD. Of course, Dennis got him

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involved because of the Donna Lass matter and the fact

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that Jack had moved basically around the same exact time

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as Donna Lass had to South Lake Tahoe. Jack was

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in pictures with his daughter for Christmas time up there

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and she worked at the same casino as Donna Lass.

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So we have that connectivity there. So let's go ahead

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and listen to this seven minute and 20 or seven.

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Yeah.

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Seven minute and 25 second audio with Tom Connor of

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South Lake Tahoe PD.

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Yeah, it is.

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Okay, I knew I got something wrong with that. I'll

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be able to email that to you. I was going

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to ask you, too, honestly. I mean, I know that

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Ken called you before, and Kelly called you in San Francisco,

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and they got probably... Honestly, just between me and you,

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I assure you that it's not going to get out, anything.

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They must have their results back, right?

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Because they're not, for some reason, they're not interested in

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the stuff I gathered.

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I don't know why.

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Well, if you're talking about the DNA stuff, the evidence there,

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I don't know. Really? You know, I have.

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I called that Kelly Carroll guy.

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I think I told you this once before. I called

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him like four or five times there for a while.

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And I waited because he told me he was going

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to have it back about mid-February. And I waited until mid-March,

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giving him an extra month. Oh, he told you that too? Yeah.

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So I waited until like mid-March, giving him an extra month.

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of an extra month's leeway, figuring, you know, I know

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how this stuff works. You set up a time schedule,

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and it quite frequently takes you a lot longer than

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you thought it would. And I called him, and I,

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you know, didn't get any answer back. And then I

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waited a while, and I called him again. No answer back.

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All I ever got was an answer machine. I called

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him like four or five times. And it wasn't until you,

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I don't remember if you called me or you called

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Ken or Ken called him or what, all of a sudden.

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They all called him. Yeah, this is that one day

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I got like four or five calls inside an hour.

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Right.

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And one of them was this guy, Kelly, in San Francisco.

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He said they still hadn't got it back yet. And then,

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you know, Ken also called me, and that's when he

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told me you were going to go to Texas and

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talk to Jack person to person and interview him. So,

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since then, I haven't heard from them.

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Really?

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So... Huh. What do you think is going on with it?

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I have no idea. My best guess is one of

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two things. They don't have DNA evidence. They don't want

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to say so.

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Ah, right.

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Or they do have it in their.

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They're.

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Methodically, systematically going back and trying to get DNA from

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all the people they think did it, and they're comparing it.

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They don't want anybody to know that's what they're doing.

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Uh-huh.

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So that's my guesses, and that's all they are is guesses. Right. Yeah.

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I thought the same thing, that they might not, was not,

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might not able to obtain the DNA, but it's weird

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because my cousin, the sheriff in town, heard the same thing,

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but they didn't get it.

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Right around the same time that you had said you

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had heard it, and.

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I heard, if I remember right, it was like I

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was talking to an investigator It was a female investigator,

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wherever it was. For some reason, I'm thinking Vallejo, but

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it might have been... Sonoma County or someplace, one of

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those areas up there. And she had told me that

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her boss, see this is all like six hands interruption,

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you know, so you can't count on it. She had

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told me that her boss knew a judge who was

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a judge in San Francisco and the judge told her

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boss that they already had the DNA evidence and they

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were already checking it against Arthur Lee Allen. Uh-huh. So,

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I mean, that was back in February, I think, February

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or March. Was it? Yeah. Uh-huh. That I got told that. But,

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you know, I can't verify it.

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In a normal situation, I'm sure, among law enforcement, they

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are glad to share certain information.

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But with a case like this, it's a whole different story,

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I'm sure.

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Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of reasons for it,

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one of them being it's a high-profile case. Right. You

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never know who, when you start letting information out like that,

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who's going to leak it.

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Right.

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There are certain times when you just can't have that

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kind of stuff going on, just like with our drug

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task force. When I was over there, now the guys

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that are over there, they don't tell patrol or anybody

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over here what you're doing.

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Oh, you guys have no idea what he's doing now?

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No. I don't know what they're doing over at the

220
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drug task force. They don't tell me who they're working with. And,

221
00:11:15.730 --> 00:11:19.370
you know, because I might just accidentally talk to somebody

222
00:11:19.769 --> 00:11:22.610
who tells their wife, who knows somebody, and next thing

223
00:11:22.629 --> 00:11:24.889
you know, everybody's got the cap out of their bag. Right,

224
00:11:24.929 --> 00:11:27.610
they're tipped off before they're there. So they do it

225
00:11:27.629 --> 00:11:30.500
for that reason. The other reason is they don't want

226
00:11:30.529 --> 00:11:32.399
somebody else to get to glory before they do.

227
00:11:32.539 --> 00:11:32.720
Right.

228
00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:34.240
Well, that's what's with this case.

229
00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:35.639
That's what's with this case.

230
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:36.700
Some cops are like that.

231
00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:39.360
Me, I can give a shit. I'll give them everything

232
00:11:39.419 --> 00:11:40.240
I got gladly.

233
00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:42.799
I can tell. You know, honestly. You be the hero.

234
00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:42.899
Yeah.

235
00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.500
Leave me out of it. I don't want people.

236
00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.070
You know what would happen if I were to solve

237
00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:51.830
this case by accident or luck or skill or whatever

238
00:11:51.870 --> 00:11:53.809
you want to call it? What would happen is I

239
00:11:53.850 --> 00:11:58.690
would be deluged with reporters and newscasters, and I don't

240
00:11:58.730 --> 00:11:59.370
want that shit.

241
00:12:00.389 --> 00:12:02.470
Exactly.

242
00:12:02.549 --> 00:12:04.210
I can tell you that type. And Kelly is a

243
00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:05.080
different story, though.

244
00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:05.720
Could be.

245
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.879
And, you know, I'm not talking bad about people, but

246
00:12:07.899 --> 00:12:09.419
I'm just saying that I wish you were working there,

247
00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:12.080
so we'd probably have the same time. But, you know,

248
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:14.919
I don't know. I just got to know stuff pretty soon, because,

249
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.600
I mean, for some reason, they're not interested in this gentleman.

250
00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:19.919
That really makes me wonder, because... What do you mean,

251
00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:21.200
Ken is or San Francisco is?

252
00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:24.950
Well, see, what Ken is, I told Ken, I called

253
00:12:24.990 --> 00:12:27.690
CI and I myself, and I asked them if an

254
00:12:27.750 --> 00:12:29.649
individual can submit evidence, and they said no.

255
00:12:29.669 --> 00:12:32.029
It's got to be from a law enforcement agency. I said, okay.

256
00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.690
So I said, now, does the agency have to be,

257
00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:37.690
in other words, does they have to turn in original

258
00:12:37.710 --> 00:12:39.570
Zodiac letters to be compared to in this?

259
00:12:39.649 --> 00:12:40.009
Yes.

260
00:12:41.029 --> 00:12:42.590
Well, I called Ken and I told him what happened.

261
00:12:42.929 --> 00:12:44.600
And he said he could submit the evidence for me,

262
00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:46.370
but I don't see how he could because he don't

263
00:12:46.389 --> 00:12:48.710
have none of the original letters. So it wouldn't work.

264
00:12:48.750 --> 00:12:50.210
He said he thought they had copies. I said, no,

265
00:12:50.230 --> 00:12:52.509
they don't have copies. They need to do it from

266
00:12:52.529 --> 00:12:55.129
the originals. So once again, there I am stuck with

267
00:12:55.289 --> 00:12:58.210
Kelly Carroll again and the Vallejo Police.

268
00:12:58.990 --> 00:13:02.480
Did you send all those letters that you obtained to

269
00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:03.500
Kelly Carroll?

270
00:13:04.299 --> 00:13:06.539
No, I haven't yet because I sent him some over

271
00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:10.500
the email and he wrote me back and he said

272
00:13:10.539 --> 00:13:12.779
that he would print them and then have them analyzed.

273
00:13:12.820 --> 00:13:14.860
But how can you have a copy analyzed? As far

274
00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:16.159
as I know, they always want the original.

275
00:13:16.179 --> 00:13:16.279
Right.

276
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.460
Yeah, but what he could do with that is they

277
00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:21.490
could look at him and say, hey, this is close enough.

278
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:22.710
We should look at the originals.

279
00:13:22.889 --> 00:13:23.870
Okay, they can kind of get an idea.

280
00:13:23.889 --> 00:13:27.629
Yeah, I mean, it's not nothing. You know, if you're

281
00:13:27.649 --> 00:13:30.090
going to try to use this in court as evidence

282
00:13:30.129 --> 00:13:33.879
to convict somebody, you better have the originals. Right, okay.

283
00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:34.299
But you can.

284
00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:38.100
work off a copy just to get a ballpark idea

285
00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.879
of whether you're close or not. If the handwriting's way off,

286
00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.159
they're going to say, this ain't even close, don't bother.

287
00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:47.470
If it's close, they'll say, hey, guess what? I should

288
00:13:47.529 --> 00:13:50.889
bring that stuff in here. Okay, gotcha, that makes sense.

289
00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:52.669
I mean, again, that's my guess.

290
00:13:52.730 --> 00:13:56.090
No, you're probably right, that makes sense. So that's what

291
00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:57.909
it is. Okay, well, he did drive him back, and

292
00:13:58.230 --> 00:14:00.129
him and Mike Maloney, I guess, is the guy's name,

293
00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:01.809
his partner's name.

294
00:14:01.929 --> 00:14:03.929
But anyway... Okay.

295
00:14:04.070 --> 00:14:06.190
Well, I'll email this stuff to you.

296
00:14:06.250 --> 00:14:09.129
I just hope somebody can get something on him soon

297
00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:10.049
because I was thinking about.

298
00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:13.919
Hey, if you got him to answer your email and

299
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:15.820
you got to send that stuff and you're getting further

300
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:16.860
ahead with him than I was.

301
00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:18.419
I guess so, huh?

302
00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:20.799
Don't get discouraged, pal. Okay.

303
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.559
Well, hey, if you can come up with an idea

304
00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.299
how to... You know, I know it's Jack and it's

305
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.019
just like, how do you prove if you can come

306
00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:28.720
up with an idea?

307
00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:29.539
Man, I'm all ears.

308
00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:31.659
You got any more ideas?

309
00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:32.019
Whatever.

310
00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:32.620
Okay.

311
00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:36.659
I'm game. Send me your stuff And if it gets

312
00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:38.580
through I'll send you a reply so you know that

313
00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:41.389
I got it Appreciate that, that would be great Alright,

314
00:14:41.429 --> 00:14:45.570
so I'll talk to you soon man Okay, bye.

315
00:14:47.629 --> 00:14:53.899
So Okay, I'm a little confused Mostly About him saying

316
00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.759
send him the stuff The handwriting, I'm assuming, right?

317
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.320
I guess But we're talking a lot about DNA stuff

318
00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:03.840
too Yeah, but they.

319
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.120
Wouldn't send them DNA because they have no DNA. I mean,

320
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.820
there were cigarette butts involved with the Donna Laff stuff.

321
00:15:11.259 --> 00:15:13.840
Good morning, Lindsay. Good morning.

322
00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:17.480
Real quick, who was he talking to just now?

323
00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:18.759
I know it was Dennis.

324
00:15:18.990 --> 00:15:22.629
Dennis was talking to Tom Connor. He is a police

325
00:15:22.669 --> 00:15:24.490
officer with the South Lake Tahoe PD.

326
00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:25.610
Okay.

327
00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:29.190
And he's a real straight shooter. I like the guy.

328
00:15:29.230 --> 00:15:33.809
Yeah, he was. Yeah, he didn't seem to be messing

329
00:15:33.850 --> 00:15:36.980
around with things as much as the FBI was with Dennis.

330
00:15:37.029 --> 00:15:40.279
I wanted to feel like the FBI was on Dennis'

331
00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:43.139
side because that's the way they made it appear. But

332
00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:45.000
it sounded to me like they were doing a lot

333
00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:47.179
of double talk, whereas Tom is like, you know what,

334
00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:51.750
let's just do this. Let's just get it done. I

335
00:15:51.769 --> 00:15:55.629
want to make a couple statements. Again, why wasn't Jack

336
00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:58.769
ruled out if they did have DNA? How did they

337
00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:03.000
rule out the other suspects with Harry Phillips on 2020

338
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.139
when they did Arthur Lee Allen and the other seven suspects,

339
00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:10.779
which included most of whom's on Tom Voight's board as

340
00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:13.480
a possible suspect and ruled all of them out? If

341
00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:16.440
they could rule all of them out, how come they

342
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:23.590
couldn't rule out Jack? I mean, it's a valid question, right?

343
00:16:23.610 --> 00:16:26.450
It's like they wouldn't even touch his stuff. Anything to

344
00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:28.529
do with anything to do with Jack, they didn't want

345
00:16:28.549 --> 00:16:29.019
to touch it.

346
00:16:29.970 --> 00:16:32.929
Exactly. And how did my mentor, who was putting out

347
00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:38.149
a fake suspect, Deborah Perez, know about Dennis? When I

348
00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:40.750
called him to say, hey, this guy's calling me about

349
00:16:40.789 --> 00:16:46.320
this really old case of unsolved murders. And he already

350
00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:51.860
knew who Dennis Kaufman was. How does the industry know

351
00:16:51.929 --> 00:16:56.460
about Dennis Kaufman? He's clearly not made documentaries yet. He's

352
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.750
not gone and done... He's probably done some news.

353
00:17:02.450 --> 00:17:05.529
Feeds, I would think, up at that point. But even then,

354
00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:09.619
how is it that my mentor is following Dennis and

355
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.500
then proclaims that Jack isn't what they're looking for as

356
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.980
far as intelligence is concerned? Because I explained him as

357
00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:21.140
a security guard for Hewlett-Packard when I really didn't quite understand.

358
00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:26.130
He was contract security, had a vast background that makes

359
00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:29.970
him qualified for being the Zodiac. So all these questions

360
00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:33.049
come up. And how did they get all the DNA

361
00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:37.369
from the others? That blows my mind. You've got eight

362
00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:41.059
people who are dead, and you have all their DNA?

363
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.180
Some of them were not convicted people, like Arthur Lee

364
00:17:44.259 --> 00:17:44.799
Allen was.

365
00:17:46.460 --> 00:17:48.420
Well, I guess maybe it depends on if they had

366
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.589
a previous record, they could have had it.

367
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.650
When did they start taking DNA as a protocol for felons, Nolan?

368
00:17:57.670 --> 00:17:58.509
Do you know?

369
00:17:58.529 --> 00:17:59.460
Probably the early 90s.

370
00:18:02.190 --> 00:18:07.190
Okay, so most of these people were from 60s, 70s, right?

371
00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:10.170
I mean, and I didn't see that many of them

372
00:18:10.289 --> 00:18:11.029
had records.

373
00:18:13.430 --> 00:18:15.309
Yeah, that's a good question.

374
00:18:16.109 --> 00:18:20.029
Right. My next question that boggles me always, and because

375
00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:22.670
you and I, Nolan, have tried to get in to

376
00:18:22.789 --> 00:18:27.720
visit Peter Wilson in regards to his case, and they

377
00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:30.359
want us to be media if we're going to interview

378
00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.400
or record or do anything like that. So how is

379
00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:36.900
it that people like Harry Phillips and 20 on 20

380
00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:41.700
and all of these media syndicates get access to evidence

381
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:46.289
and the items necessary to complete these DNA tests. Isn't

382
00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:48.109
that a breaking of the chain of custody?

383
00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:57.430
Well, I think that that would go to, towards, you know,

384
00:18:57.569 --> 00:19:01.430
a FOIA, like anybody could FOIA, like, you know, anybody

385
00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:01.809
could FOIA.

386
00:19:01.829 --> 00:19:03.170
You can FOIA DNA.

387
00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:03.369
Yep.

388
00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:06.160
Oh, well, not DNA.

389
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:06.759
Okay.

390
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.420
This is what I'm saying. So how is it that

391
00:19:09.579 --> 00:19:15.019
the mass rich elite media for entertainment purposes is capable

392
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:17.880
of getting their hands on items to complete tests such

393
00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:21.349
as DNA? How did they acquire the other eight people?

394
00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:23.769
And why did Harry Phillips say we tested the other

395
00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:25.990
eight because we knew they weren't the Zodiac when I

396
00:19:26.089 --> 00:19:29.660
asked them why they didn't have results for Jack? that

397
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.799
very moment dennis has turned him in when they're doing

398
00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:36.500
this whole entire you know testing and show so they

399
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:40.619
get all of the reviews and the the the credit

400
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:45.630
for excluding these eight people but why again are they

401
00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:46.380
avoiding Jack?

402
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.220
Yeah. I wonder if your mentor had something to do

403
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:51.640
with that.

404
00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:56.440
Yeah. I know, because he's right up there with all

405
00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:00.380
of them. So, originals. As it pertains to originals, we're

406
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:02.849
listening to Tom Connor say that if you're going to

407
00:20:02.869 --> 00:20:07.309
go to court, you better have the originals. That's not true.

408
00:20:07.309 --> 00:20:08.990
99% of my cases, I am not working off of

409
00:20:09.049 --> 00:20:12.740
the original. If somebody has committed a forgery, I don't

410
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:16.480
need an original to show you that the handwriting isn't

411
00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:19.029
what it should be, and the memory movement doesn't match

412
00:20:19.069 --> 00:20:21.009
the person or the suspect that it's supposed to.

413
00:20:21.029 --> 00:20:25.869
I mean, it helps to have the original, but if

414
00:20:25.910 --> 00:20:26.650
you don't have.

415
00:20:26.470 --> 00:20:28.490
It, you don't have it.

416
00:20:28.509 --> 00:20:31.799
Yeah, I think it goes down to, like, you know,

417
00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:34.700
what judge you're going to be facing, what judge is

418
00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:36.539
going to be, you know, working the case, and it

419
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.329
goes down to, like, you know, like... Like Nolan said,

420
00:20:40.710 --> 00:20:42.750
it might be a little bit better if you have it. But,

421
00:20:43.329 --> 00:20:45.609
you know, I think you kind of just have to, like,

422
00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:48.630
ballpark it, you know, depending on the case and the

423
00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:50.940
judge and the court and the state and, you know,

424
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:51.539
where it's at.

425
00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:56.420
Like, you know, all of it together. I mean, 70%

426
00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:58.900
of my cases are in probate. And I would say,

427
00:20:58.940 --> 00:21:01.599
like I said, 99% of them I have not seen

428
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:05.440
the original. I go to court. I testify before any judge.

429
00:21:06.450 --> 00:21:10.670
And decisions are made in regards to people's inheritances and

430
00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:14.809
their livelihood based on this. I mean, people are paying

431
00:21:14.849 --> 00:21:15.890
thousands and thousands.

432
00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:17.490
Have they ever asked you for the original?

433
00:21:18.789 --> 00:21:19.170
Have you?

434
00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:21.670
Just for instance, like in a case, have they like,

435
00:21:21.849 --> 00:21:24.269
so just like for instance, in a case you're presenting

436
00:21:25.049 --> 00:21:27.380
a copy of some handwriting to the judge, has the

437
00:21:27.410 --> 00:21:32.680
judge or possibly, you know, the other parties involved asked

438
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:34.019
for any originals before?

439
00:21:34.819 --> 00:21:38.359
I always ask for the original. If it's in regards

440
00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:40.799
to a probate case, typically speaking, the will would be

441
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.539
lodged with the court. So I'm capable of going to

442
00:21:43.579 --> 00:21:46.910
the court and doing an examination of that original. I

443
00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:50.369
find that the original is only necessary when I'm authenticating it.

444
00:21:50.430 --> 00:21:52.230
So if my client comes to me and says, I

445
00:21:52.509 --> 00:21:55.630
need your opinion to support to the court that my

446
00:21:55.690 --> 00:21:59.890
father signed this trust agreement. Then I have to 100%

447
00:21:59.890 --> 00:22:02.660
see the original in order to determine the presence of

448
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.779
wet ink. Because now it's authenticated versus just an identification.

449
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.039
And in this day and age of technological cut and

450
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:21.140
paste or digital cut and paste, you are literally... required, basically,

451
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:24.700
to see that wedding. But most people aren't coming to

452
00:22:24.740 --> 00:22:29.369
me because it's an original good signature. Most people are

453
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.289
coming to me because they don't think dad's will was

454
00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:35.630
signed by dad. And in that case, I don't require

455
00:22:35.650 --> 00:22:38.450
the original to show that the memory movement is opposite

456
00:22:38.509 --> 00:22:41.490
to what we expect to see coming from that individual.

457
00:22:43.509 --> 00:22:45.390
The originals, you can just blow that one right out

458
00:22:45.430 --> 00:22:48.279
of the water. Also, you wouldn't want to give away.

459
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.980
Another thing that I think of is you wouldn't want

460
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.460
to give away that original to the court because it

461
00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.279
could get lost.

462
00:22:59.519 --> 00:22:59.680
No.

463
00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:04.589
The courts don't seem to lose things.

464
00:23:05.410 --> 00:23:07.990
The party is supposed to lodge the original with the court,

465
00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:09.869
retain a certified copy.

466
00:23:10.470 --> 00:23:10.730
Yes.

467
00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:13.880
You have to lodge the original. Now, a trust does

468
00:23:13.900 --> 00:23:14.720
not have to be lodged.

469
00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:15.779
A trust.

470
00:23:16.349 --> 00:23:20.589
around the probate system unless there's somebody contesting it, forcing

471
00:23:20.630 --> 00:23:24.559
it into a probate action. But the original is always

472
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.180
going to be lodged. I've actually even seen a judge

473
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.259
decide on a will that was a copy because it

474
00:23:32.299 --> 00:23:34.329
was the only source that anybody had.

475
00:23:35.289 --> 00:23:35.490
Right.

476
00:23:35.789 --> 00:23:37.950
And I mean, everything on the outside. Well, it's just

477
00:23:37.990 --> 00:23:39.170
like your birth certificate.

478
00:23:39.630 --> 00:23:42.230
Well, I have a case in Placid County right now

479
00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:46.519
where people are pointing the finger at each other as

480
00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:47.779
to who has the original.

481
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.920
And they have a copy.

482
00:23:50.660 --> 00:23:54.190
But nobody's coming up with the original. And the copy

483
00:23:54.250 --> 00:23:57.529
itself says, this original is supposed to be put in

484
00:23:57.569 --> 00:24:01.009
a safe deposit box. Well, the deceased had a safe

485
00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:04.670
deposit box, and the ex-wife had the key to it,

486
00:24:05.190 --> 00:24:06.690
but she's saying she doesn't have the will.

487
00:24:06.710 --> 00:24:08.690
And she's saying, no.

488
00:24:09.589 --> 00:24:12.250
My client has the will. My client doesn't have the will.

489
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:15.319
She never had access to the safe deposit box.

490
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:16.400
Right.

491
00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:17.000
So anyway.

492
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:19.720
Play the who's on first, who's got the ball, just

493
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:24.210
like law enforcement here. And if the court can make

494
00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:27.329
that decision based on a copy of a will, we

495
00:24:27.369 --> 00:24:31.730
can certainly, I mean, to the extent of losing, the

496
00:24:31.789 --> 00:24:34.299
courts don't tend to lose things like the police department

497
00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:39.759
having these cases. I did have to spend a couple

498
00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:42.279
hours and then come back one day for, I think

499
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.680
it was Marin County, for a will that we couldn't

500
00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:49.720
locate because the matter was being heard. So the will

501
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:51.789
was up and down on all different kinds of floors

502
00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:54.049
doing all kinds of things, back to the judge, back

503
00:24:54.089 --> 00:24:56.690
to the probate department. And they had to track it down,

504
00:24:56.750 --> 00:24:59.990
but it wasn't lost. We certainly were able to get

505
00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:05.519
it once we figured out whose hands it was in. So, yeah,

506
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:09.319
the loss of stuff is mind-boggling in these cases. We're

507
00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:12.700
going to see— I' m sorry, our next audio file is with

508
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:18.380
Steve Brown from Sonoma County PD, and he is talking

509
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.059
about missing items from the victims. So when we see—

510
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.500
the finale letter to Tim Miller that states you could

511
00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:28.660
look for, you could search for my clues. These, I think,

512
00:25:28.700 --> 00:25:31.849
are the things that they're talking about. So let's go

513
00:25:31.930 --> 00:25:34.509
ahead and play Steve Brown, Sonoma PD.

514
00:25:35.869 --> 00:25:39.650
I've been in contact with Tom Connor from Lake Tahoe Police.

515
00:25:41.190 --> 00:25:47.349
Lake Tahoe, and who else?

516
00:25:47.470 --> 00:25:49.349
FBI, can't hit my name, Chris Hopkins.

517
00:25:52.539 --> 00:25:53.099
Ken what?

518
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:54.019
Hitmeyer.

519
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.450
H-I-T-T-M-E-I-E-R.

520
00:26:01.509 --> 00:26:02.730
And he works for FDI?

521
00:26:02.869 --> 00:26:05.369
Yeah, exactly.

522
00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:08.250
What's the guy's name? Chris Hopkins.

523
00:26:09.470 --> 00:26:10.359
That guy or who?

524
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.519
That's a guy too. He's head of the evidence response

525
00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:13.740
team here.

526
00:26:16.539 --> 00:26:17.039
And who else?

527
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:18.500
That's about it.

528
00:26:19.180 --> 00:26:19.500
Okay.

529
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.819
And then when you contact the FBI guys, what are

530
00:26:21.859 --> 00:26:22.339
they saying?

531
00:26:23.099 --> 00:26:25.779
They're saying they've turned it over to the counties that

532
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.400
they've happened in, and it's their case now. You know,

533
00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:30.920
I don't know if they've turned it over for prosecution,

534
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:32.880
if they've got DNA and it matched my dad's, and

535
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:33.519
it's not saying.

536
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:33.980
I don't know.

537
00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:37.720
Well, you know, I talked to somebody, and they didn't

538
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.660
get DNA off the letters that were sent to the paper.

539
00:26:40.900 --> 00:26:41.559
Okay. So.

540
00:26:42.380 --> 00:26:44.380
That's probably why they don't get back to you, because

541
00:26:44.420 --> 00:26:45.440
there is none.

542
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.339
That's what I figured, too. I thought that might be

543
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:48.799
the case.

544
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.099
What other shit did you find in storage? Do you

545
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:51.759
have a list?

546
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.140
Yeah, I've got updates for you. Or if I gave

547
00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:56.680
you a list of.

548
00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:00.769
What some of our victims are missing? I still got

549
00:27:00.789 --> 00:27:03.029
everything here. I haven't gotten rid of nothing.

550
00:27:03.069 --> 00:27:05.779
Was there any girl stuff, girl jewelry or anything?

551
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:07.700
Yeah, there was.

552
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.619
Yeah, there was. I didn't know if it was my mom's.

553
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:11.940
I didn't even think about jewelry.

554
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:13.980
Do you have it?

555
00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:16.769
I've got some of it. Yeah, I couldn't get everything

556
00:27:16.809 --> 00:27:17.210
out of storage.

557
00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:19.190
The reason I had to go down and get it

558
00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:22.049
is because it was storage's aunt's house in Arizona. She

559
00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:24.009
was getting ready to get rid of it. He had

560
00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:26.809
owed her like $ 800 on it. So me and her

561
00:27:26.829 --> 00:27:28.670
friend went down there. We gave her a couple hundred dollars,

562
00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:30.009
and she let us take what we could fit in

563
00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:30.490
the trailer.

564
00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:33.009
We pretty much had to leave the rest. So I

565
00:27:33.069 --> 00:27:36.329
hope I didn't leave anything good. I hope I didn't.

566
00:27:37.710 --> 00:27:38.470
Where do you live at?

567
00:27:38.809 --> 00:27:39.930
I'm in Sacramento right now.

568
00:27:39.990 --> 00:27:40.890
What's your address?

569
00:27:41.309 --> 00:27:46.410
It's 79-41... Holly Drive.

570
00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:48.349
H-O-L-L-Y.

571
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:48.730
Yeah.

572
00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:51.059
And that's actually in Citrus Heights.

573
00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:52.160
I know where that is.

574
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:52.740
Okay.

575
00:27:54.940 --> 00:27:58.680
Yeah, I've got a list. I'll have to pull it

576
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:01.109
out of our files. Maybe we can compare it and

577
00:28:01.289 --> 00:28:02.390
see what the hell we have.

578
00:28:02.430 --> 00:28:04.430
Yeah, because I've got everything sitting here in a pile

579
00:28:04.470 --> 00:28:04.930
that I got, so.

580
00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:08.289
If there's something in there that might matter.

581
00:28:08.329 --> 00:28:10.569
You can mop me up on my bus. I don't know.

582
00:28:10.630 --> 00:28:12.769
I mean, it's not a problem of me showing you

583
00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:13.670
a list of what I have.

584
00:28:13.690 --> 00:28:13.930
Okay.

585
00:28:13.970 --> 00:28:14.569
What's it hurt?

586
00:28:15.069 --> 00:28:15.380
Yeah.

587
00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:17.640
You know, if there's something there that's great. If not,

588
00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:18.900
it's all right.

589
00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:19.700
What's it hurt?

590
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:21.819
You know, I hate to throw something away that would

591
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.779
be a key thing, you know.

592
00:28:23.859 --> 00:28:24.900
Exactly. All right.

593
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:27.380
Well, I'll get a hold of you later in the week.

594
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:28.000
Okay.

595
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.240
And I'll let you know. That sounds good.

596
00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:30.720
All right, then.

597
00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:31.859
All right. We'll talk to you soon.

598
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.720
Thank you. Okay.

599
00:28:32.779 --> 00:28:32.940
Bye.

600
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:33.160
Bye.

601
00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:36.829
Okay.

602
00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:41.470
Now, beg so many more questions. Re-listening to these things

603
00:28:41.529 --> 00:28:46.519
really kind of draw questions out in me. Steve Brown

604
00:28:46.579 --> 00:28:49.160
said he was told there was no DNA on the

605
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:55.019
letters by which to test. So what did they test?

606
00:28:55.099 --> 00:28:57.819
What DNA did they have to test for Harry Phillips

607
00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:00.420
20 on 20? Or was that whole entire thing just

608
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.119
a charade? Right.

609
00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:05.630
Well, and how is there not DNA on a letter?

610
00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:10.319
There's got to be some. I mean, you know, everyone

611
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:14.259
don't just handle a letter with gloves or anything.

612
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:20.009
I mean, but the Zodiac showed the propensity to understand

613
00:29:20.089 --> 00:29:24.769
the available law enforcement techniques that could get him hemmed up.

614
00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:29.480
I mean, if he's using a spittoon full of people's

615
00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.420
spit to seal his letters, then yes, I can understand

616
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:36.529
that they couldn't break apart a DNA profile in order

617
00:29:36.630 --> 00:29:39.710
to compare that. But we heard Harry Phillips on 20.

618
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.460
20 on 20 rule out eight people. What DNA did

619
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:44.079
they rule.

620
00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:45.460
Them out on? Right.

621
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:47.039
Who knows?

622
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:53.549
So confusing. But Steve Brown, obviously, again, another willing participant

623
00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:57.549
interested in what Dennis has. And again, I have no,

624
00:29:58.230 --> 00:30:00.490
I never spoke to him. That was one agency that

625
00:30:00.529 --> 00:30:03.150
Dennis and I never attempted to go to because the

626
00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:06.569
hitchhiker murders in Sonoma County did not have... handwriting involved

627
00:30:06.609 --> 00:30:09.539
but it did have missing pieces of jewelry which were

628
00:30:09.619 --> 00:30:13.279
found in that that um ammo can that most of

629
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.869
the items like the bent over tip of the pilot

630
00:30:15.910 --> 00:30:19.769
razor pen that looked like it had been extraordinarily used

631
00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:27.670
very very um hard loved To say the least, why

632
00:30:27.690 --> 00:30:30.349
would anybody keep a dried up old Pilot Razor pen?

633
00:30:30.490 --> 00:30:32.369
I mean, usually you throw it away when it's dead.

634
00:30:32.849 --> 00:30:36.619
This pen meant something to Jack and is coupled with pieces.

635
00:30:36.630 --> 00:30:39.900
It was like one of a set of an earring.

636
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.660
And there were multiple earrings, which I showed back in

637
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:48.589
the presentation for that time frame. So, more questions than answers.

638
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:50.089
All right.

639
00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:50.670
Well, we've got.

640
00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:54.230
There were lots of odd trinkets that came across in

641
00:30:54.329 --> 00:30:55.009
Jack's stories.

642
00:30:56.029 --> 00:30:59.109
Well, yeah, I was just thinking that, like Dennis said,

643
00:30:59.170 --> 00:31:02.049
he said, well, I hope I didn't miss anything, but

644
00:31:03.710 --> 00:31:06.539
why couldn't he get all of it? If it was me,

645
00:31:06.980 --> 00:31:10.799
I would have a group of people bring their trucks.

646
00:31:10.539 --> 00:31:15.539
And whatever that could be.

647
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.859
I would create some type of fund and whatever I

648
00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:21.490
need to pay and whatever trucks I needed, I'd have

649
00:31:21.529 --> 00:31:24.130
it rallied up to make sure I got every little thing.

650
00:31:24.869 --> 00:31:27.109
Tiny inch and tiny piece.

651
00:31:28.210 --> 00:31:28.430
Right.

652
00:31:28.490 --> 00:31:30.799
It's odd that he had access and got some of

653
00:31:30.859 --> 00:31:34.819
it but didn't get.

654
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.039
All of it.

655
00:31:34.299 --> 00:31:38.759
It almost seemed like he wasn't allowed to get all

656
00:31:38.779 --> 00:31:38.990
of it.

657
00:31:39.589 --> 00:31:40.750
He was rushed to get it.

658
00:31:41.579 --> 00:31:44.380
She was willing to take a few hundred, obviously, like

659
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.609
a good debt collector lets mitigate our losses by taking

660
00:31:48.650 --> 00:31:51.309
what we can get. But I mean, honestly speaking, if

661
00:31:51.369 --> 00:31:53.769
she was willing to take a few hundred, I'm sure

662
00:31:53.789 --> 00:31:56.289
she would have sat on those items for a bit

663
00:31:56.349 --> 00:31:59.569
longer if it took time to appropriately act and bring

664
00:31:59.589 --> 00:32:02.579
the right truck or trailer or whatever you needed.

665
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:02.680
Yeah.

666
00:32:03.029 --> 00:32:03.730
To get everything.

667
00:32:03.750 --> 00:32:03.829
Yeah.

668
00:32:04.069 --> 00:32:06.990
And Dennis clearly didn't have any clue what he was

669
00:32:07.049 --> 00:32:09.289
sitting on and what the possibility of any of the

670
00:32:09.390 --> 00:32:11.579
items would have meant as far as evidence is concerned.

671
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:13.660
It took him eight years to figure out what was

672
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.319
in the PA system, the hood.

673
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:16.789
Eight years.

674
00:32:16.849 --> 00:32:19.430
He's sitting on this PA system while Jack's saying, don't

675
00:32:19.470 --> 00:32:21.079
get rid of it. If you ever get rid of it,

676
00:32:21.109 --> 00:32:23.049
make sure you give it back to me. And it

677
00:32:23.109 --> 00:32:25.589
takes him eight years to figure out that there's evidence

678
00:32:25.650 --> 00:32:30.529
in it. So I can't... I bet he lost a

679
00:32:30.569 --> 00:32:32.099
lot of good stuff in that.

680
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:37.579
Man, that could have sealed the deal about solving this thing.

681
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:38.720
Right?

682
00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:42.740
If we had just more stuff. Who knows? Maybe, maybe not, but.

683
00:32:43.700 --> 00:32:47.640
Is there like a chain of custody for the remaining items?

684
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:51.190
Well, I mean, only turn it over. And if something

685
00:32:51.269 --> 00:32:53.329
happened to be one of the victims, like that could

686
00:32:53.349 --> 00:32:56.309
be confirmed through the police files that, you know, they

687
00:32:56.329 --> 00:32:58.549
were missing a necklace or missing a bracelet or missing

688
00:32:58.609 --> 00:33:00.960
an earring or, you know, whatever those items were. And,

689
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:05.099
and we know that there was another aunt in Texas.

690
00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:07.599
So this aunt that had this storage shed in Arizona,

691
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.759
there was another aunt in Texas that, That also held

692
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:13.460
some of Jack's belongings that she tossed because she never

693
00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:15.329
thought she was going to see him again. And when

694
00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:18.690
Jack showed up in September of 2005 to collect those belongings,

695
00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:22.630
that's on the onset of Dennis telling him nobody's paying attention.

696
00:33:22.670 --> 00:33:25.349
They don't believe me. They don't think you're the real deal.

697
00:33:25.430 --> 00:33:27.990
And I think that he struck out to that aunt's

698
00:33:28.009 --> 00:33:29.970
house purposely to pick up what he knew would have

699
00:33:30.009 --> 00:33:32.430
been evidence. And the aunt had already thrown it away.

700
00:33:34.390 --> 00:33:34.650
Wow.

701
00:33:35.170 --> 00:33:38.829
But also, since Dennis turned over the FBI, they won't

702
00:33:38.869 --> 00:33:39.589
give back, right?

703
00:33:40.289 --> 00:33:43.230
No, they won't give back. They haven't excluded Jack once again.

704
00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:46.490
You know, where's this exclusion to help Dennis to move

705
00:33:46.589 --> 00:33:50.410
on if Jack truly isn't it? He has never gotten

706
00:33:51.069 --> 00:33:54.690
a one word from any law enforcement agency, to my knowledge,

707
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:57.559
that said, we have ruled Jack out. You can move on.

708
00:34:00.329 --> 00:34:01.029
So are you right?

709
00:34:01.089 --> 00:34:01.869
I would be the same way.

710
00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:03.210
I would never be able to move on.

711
00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:04.289
I would literally die.

712
00:34:04.529 --> 00:34:04.849
Yeah.

713
00:34:04.910 --> 00:34:06.809
How do you move Jack out?

714
00:34:07.289 --> 00:34:09.750
Yeah, it should be a simple process. If you guys

715
00:34:09.789 --> 00:34:11.570
can show us in any way, shape or form that

716
00:34:11.610 --> 00:34:13.800
Jack couldn't possibly have been the person, but not one,

717
00:34:14.010 --> 00:34:16.760
not one person. And the entire time I have been researching,

718
00:34:16.780 --> 00:34:20.239
investigating this case. Not Tom Voight, not Bart Baggett, not

719
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.539
anybody has been able to come forward with any evidence

720
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:28.780
that says not Jake Wark, not Oren Shack, not Ward.

721
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:31.719
I mean, there's so many people that have been against

722
00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:34.550
Dennis and Jack as a suspect, but not one of

723
00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.210
them can present one piece of evidence that would show

724
00:34:37.289 --> 00:34:39.590
or support that Jack couldn't possibly be the Zodiac.

725
00:34:39.929 --> 00:34:40.289
Not one.

726
00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:46.469
Our next audio is Kelly Carroll from SFPD discussing the

727
00:34:46.530 --> 00:34:47.230
palm print.

728
00:34:50.179 --> 00:34:52.159
Yeah, he had done a move. What do you need

729
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.400
right now, today? Okay, what I need is, would you

730
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:58.789
guys be willing to... He's got Jack's palm prints already.

731
00:34:59.409 --> 00:35:01.429
Now, they need to be compared.

732
00:35:01.469 --> 00:35:02.630
How does he have them?

733
00:35:02.969 --> 00:35:03.150
Huh?

734
00:35:03.230 --> 00:35:03.929
How did he get them?

735
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:07.130
I don't know how he got them, but he's got them. So,

736
00:35:07.150 --> 00:35:07.989
of course, we catch.

737
00:35:07.889 --> 00:35:08.449
Dennis, right?

738
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:40.739
Playing loose with information. How did he get the palm print?

739
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.519
And he's referring to Steve Brown of the Sonoma County

740
00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:45.900
PD who is in possession of the palm print. And

741
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:47.719
Kelly Carroll is like, you don't know how he got it?

742
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:53.179
I feel like he basically called Dennis out on that one.

743
00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:56.119
But he is alluding to the fact that yes, there

744
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.800
is a palm print. He didn't come back like Tom

745
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.659
Connor who said there wasn't any DNA on the letters

746
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:05.550
or there was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He literally said, yeah,

747
00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:07.829
we can get that compared. Have him give me a call.

748
00:36:08.469 --> 00:36:13.210
So where's the results from that palm print? Inconclusive or otherwise?

749
00:36:14.050 --> 00:36:14.250
Yeah.

750
00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:18.929
Our next audio is Steve Brown from Sonoma County PD

751
00:36:19.090 --> 00:36:20.250
on the palm print as well.

752
00:36:20.269 --> 00:36:23.949
I mean, if they're willing to let you go there, well,

753
00:36:23.989 --> 00:36:26.989
I mean, if they're going to pay for it, well, yeah,

754
00:36:27.050 --> 00:36:29.570
it's just that, you know, once I go there, then

755
00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:32.699
if I was to go back there, You know what

756
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:32.980
I'm saying?

757
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.780
I was thinking about holding them off until Christmas, maybe.

758
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.019
Yeah, that's a better idea, actually.

759
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:41.449
If I held them off until Christmas, and that would

760
00:36:41.469 --> 00:36:43.070
give us time to do this other stuff.

761
00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:44.550
Right. Okay.

762
00:36:44.570 --> 00:36:47.670
Because we should know, if I can hold Kelly, Carol,

763
00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:50.429
and they're willing to compare those prints I got, and

764
00:36:51.070 --> 00:36:53.269
not treat, you know, he's going to ask me, what

765
00:36:53.289 --> 00:36:55.030
are you even involved in? That's exactly what he's going

766
00:36:55.050 --> 00:36:55.409
to ask you.

767
00:36:55.429 --> 00:36:55.750
I don't care.

768
00:36:55.789 --> 00:36:57.349
I'm going to say, hey, you know what?

769
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:01.000
We have seven dead girls in this county at the

770
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:01.960
same time.

771
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:02.619
That's right.

772
00:37:02.659 --> 00:37:05.349
We don't know who killed them. And in fact, they

773
00:37:05.389 --> 00:37:07.289
credited the Zodiac. Whether he did it or.

774
00:37:07.289 --> 00:37:08.090
Not, I don't know.

775
00:37:08.110 --> 00:37:09.389
But that's what I'm trying to find out.

776
00:37:09.659 --> 00:37:10.119
That's right.

777
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:12.059
That's what I told them. I said, you guys have

778
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:13.719
more homicides in their county than you do.

779
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.500
Well, San Francisco has one, right?

780
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:16.170
They only got one.

781
00:37:16.179 --> 00:37:18.119
You have seven of them.

782
00:37:18.139 --> 00:37:20.840
The only thing San Francisco had was all the letters

783
00:37:20.929 --> 00:37:21.590
to the paper.

784
00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:22.739
Exactly right.

785
00:37:23.090 --> 00:37:25.590
Yeah, just because he sent letters there doesn't mean he

786
00:37:25.610 --> 00:37:27.449
didn't kill the seven girls in your county at all.

787
00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:29.010
No, it doesn't.

788
00:37:29.070 --> 00:37:29.969
And the thing is, you have.

789
00:37:29.869 --> 00:37:32.510
A composite of the man from your county, and it

790
00:37:32.550 --> 00:37:33.510
matches my stepdad.

791
00:37:33.889 --> 00:37:34.150
Right.

792
00:37:34.170 --> 00:37:36.829
It's a dead ringer. Right. You have just as much

793
00:37:36.889 --> 00:37:38.949
evidence as they do as far as that goes.

794
00:37:39.329 --> 00:37:42.400
Yeah, I'm not worried about them. I can handle those guys. I...

795
00:37:43.269 --> 00:37:45.630
I know you can, man. Fuck it, I'm not worried

796
00:37:45.650 --> 00:37:48.510
about it. I'll just say, you know what? Either work

797
00:37:48.530 --> 00:37:50.619
with me and let me try and compare it or

798
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.210
fuck it, I'll go somewhere else and get it.

799
00:37:52.219 --> 00:37:53.920
I don't need their shit.

800
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:57.900
I'll give you a call tomorrow. If I get a

801
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.599
hold of him, I'll call you tomorrow for sure. Okay, Steve,

802
00:38:00.619 --> 00:38:03.400
I appreciate it, man. I'm behind you 100%. Whatever you

803
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:06.099
decide to do, man, it's our call. All right, and

804
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.280
hopefully I'll talk to you tomorrow with an answer from him.

805
00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:09.639
Okay.

806
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:10.519
All right.

807
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:11.739
Good enough, man. Thanks for calling.

808
00:38:11.780 --> 00:38:12.360
Later, Dan.

809
00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:12.679
Okay.

810
00:38:12.699 --> 00:38:13.000
Bye-bye.

811
00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:13.280
All right.

812
00:38:14.590 --> 00:38:14.929
Okay.

813
00:38:16.170 --> 00:38:16.710
Real quick.

814
00:38:17.650 --> 00:38:21.449
It says Steve Brown, Sonoma County Police Department. But the

815
00:38:21.489 --> 00:38:25.269
counties don't have police departments. They have sheriff departments. Cities

816
00:38:25.329 --> 00:38:28.889
have police departments. So is he with, like, Santa Rosa

817
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:32.480
Police Department? Or is he a sheriff?

818
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:34.460
I thought he was with Sonoma County, and he may

819
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.800
be a sheriff. I may have it listed incorrectly.

820
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:37.000
Yeah.

821
00:38:37.059 --> 00:38:37.280
Yeah.

822
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:41.730
Yeah. That may very well be. More importantly, let's take

823
00:38:41.789 --> 00:38:45.510
note to the fact that the Sonoma County composite is legit. Yes.

824
00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:48.719
We just heard from Steve Brown. So Tom Voight and

825
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:53.559
these other jack wagons attempted to downplay the composite from

826
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:57.199
Sonoma County as though it was just done by some

827
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.670
random person boohooing out there to, you know, spruce up.

828
00:39:01.449 --> 00:39:04.369
albeit it is a dead ringer for Jack. And I

829
00:39:04.409 --> 00:39:07.650
mean dead ringer, not a possible mm. I mean, we're

830
00:39:07.969 --> 00:39:10.409
going to see these composites when we go through the

831
00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:13.599
information that matches and suggests that Jack's the best suspect.

832
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.679
But now we hear a sheriff, whoever he is, admitting

833
00:39:20.139 --> 00:39:22.860
with Dennis that the composite is a dead ringer that

834
00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:24.070
they have for Sonoma County.

835
00:39:24.789 --> 00:39:27.630
And he points out what most people see as obvious

836
00:39:27.650 --> 00:39:31.090
that people don't seem to realize, they had seven murder victims.

837
00:39:31.429 --> 00:39:33.010
San Francisco had at most two.

838
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:39.079
I think there were more, obviously, because the Zodiac claimed

839
00:39:39.099 --> 00:39:40.909
he wasn't going to tell him when he killed anymore.

840
00:39:40.949 --> 00:39:43.530
He's going to make it look like accidents and or

841
00:39:43.590 --> 00:39:47.130
fake accidents and and otherwise. So I think that there

842
00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:49.929
were probably and I think they attributed a lot more

843
00:39:50.010 --> 00:39:52.349
crimes than we know to the Zodiac, which is why

844
00:39:52.469 --> 00:39:56.030
I just slumped in every single unsolved murder across the

845
00:39:56.059 --> 00:39:56.619
time frame.

846
00:39:57.380 --> 00:39:58.079
Mm hmm.

847
00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:00.599
We got about nine minutes and I have about six

848
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.039
more minutes of audio. So let's get into Tom Connor again. Well,

849
00:40:04.059 --> 00:40:06.869
I was just going to say real quick. I have

850
00:40:07.469 --> 00:40:11.650
basically nine minutes. Can you hold your thoughts? Let me

851
00:40:11.670 --> 00:40:13.789
get through these. We have six minutes. That'll give us

852
00:40:13.829 --> 00:40:16.360
three minutes at the end. All right. So this one

853
00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:19.099
is Tom Connor, South Lake Tahoe PD, and it's the

854
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:22.639
palm print and information about Kathleen Johns.

855
00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:27.570
Well, all I want is somebody that If they've got

856
00:40:28.170 --> 00:40:30.869
some kind of rapport or in or any of that

857
00:40:30.909 --> 00:40:33.030
kind of stuff, well, they can talk to those guys

858
00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:36.210
and get a straight-up answer. You know? Yeah. That's all

859
00:40:36.250 --> 00:40:36.929
I'm looking for.

860
00:40:36.989 --> 00:40:38.250
So you really don't have one, huh?

861
00:40:38.349 --> 00:40:38.829
No, I don't.

862
00:40:39.429 --> 00:40:40.269
You really don't?

863
00:40:40.369 --> 00:40:40.630
No.

864
00:40:40.650 --> 00:40:41.329
That's weird.

865
00:40:41.389 --> 00:40:43.920
I really thought you were just being hushed, but I

866
00:40:43.929 --> 00:40:45.139
really think you don't have one either.

867
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:47.840
No. They have not told me one way or the other.

868
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.519
Last night, you know, they told me... They were working

869
00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:53.300
on it. First of all, they told me they were

870
00:40:53.340 --> 00:40:56.980
working on it and wouldn't have an answer by mid-February. Right. Okay,

871
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.610
so I waited until mid-March before I bugged them about it.

872
00:40:59.659 --> 00:41:03.690
You know, things go wrong, you get off schedule. And

873
00:41:03.750 --> 00:41:05.610
then I didn't get calls for a long, long time.

874
00:41:05.650 --> 00:41:07.449
And then I think it was around May or June

875
00:41:08.170 --> 00:41:11.469
when you told... hit Meyer that you were going to

876
00:41:11.510 --> 00:41:14.369
run down there and stirred up all that shit. Yeah.

877
00:41:14.409 --> 00:41:15.250
Carol called me.

878
00:41:15.909 --> 00:41:16.389
Yeah.

879
00:41:16.650 --> 00:41:18.590
And he told me at that time they still didn't

880
00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:21.579
have an answer. Yeah. So I'm going, yeah, this is bullshit.

881
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:22.420
Right.

882
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:24.019
So, you know, whatever.

883
00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:24.699
Yeah.

884
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:26.159
I mean, the guy just, I can't make the guy

885
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:27.159
tell me. Right.

886
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:29.559
Well, I just figured some, you know, when I, that

887
00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:31.679
one day, when they both called you real quick, I

888
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.139
figured something was going on because they both called you

889
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.610
real quick to either tell you, don't tell Dennis.

890
00:41:36.349 --> 00:41:38.610
This or something, you know. Well, you stirred the shit.

891
00:41:38.650 --> 00:41:40.840
I got to give you that. Ah, I got some

892
00:41:40.940 --> 00:41:42.780
reactions anyway. The phone started ringing.

893
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:44.909
Yeah, well, I don't know what the big deal is

894
00:41:44.949 --> 00:41:46.989
about going down to San Jack if they're really not,

895
00:41:47.650 --> 00:41:49.110
you know, so obviously something's going on.

896
00:41:49.630 --> 00:41:50.650
You know, it was then.

897
00:41:50.670 --> 00:41:51.179
I don't know how.

898
00:41:51.769 --> 00:41:54.650
Well, like I said, if this guy has some kind

899
00:41:54.670 --> 00:41:57.190
of working relationship with them, where they'll talk to him.

900
00:41:57.750 --> 00:41:59.619
You know, I would like him to call me or,

901
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.400
you know, give me an answer. So I'm not spinning

902
00:42:02.420 --> 00:42:03.599
my wheels anymore. Exactly.

903
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:05.280
Well, be honest with you, he was here the other day.

904
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:07.349
He actually came to the house, the sergeant did. Yeah.

905
00:42:07.389 --> 00:42:10.369
And we spent five hours here going through this stuff.

906
00:42:10.630 --> 00:42:12.730
And he was just... Didn't believe it.

907
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:13.139
Good.

908
00:42:13.340 --> 00:42:14.199
He was just shocked.

909
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.119
He just says, he just can't believe that, you know,

910
00:42:17.139 --> 00:42:19.719
that these guys aren't running with this because, you know,

911
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.329
he's been, he's been, you know, he's been Allen has

912
00:42:22.369 --> 00:42:23.510
been a suspect for a long time.

913
00:42:23.570 --> 00:42:26.690
Right. And he admitted, I mean, that he had, Allen

914
00:42:26.710 --> 00:42:27.840
doesn't even compare to Jack.

915
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:28.079
I mean.

916
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:30.360
The similarity is incredible.

917
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.280
Like I said, he spent five hours going over this stuff.

918
00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:36.510
He said, I'm going to get that print. I'm going

919
00:42:36.530 --> 00:42:37.469
to check it out myself.

920
00:42:38.510 --> 00:42:42.389
You talked to him about showing Kathleen Johns that video

921
00:42:42.869 --> 00:42:45.719
and see if he'd be interested in sitting there. while

922
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.579
it happens. And if it is, I can get in

923
00:42:47.619 --> 00:42:49.719
touch with her and you have him call me and

924
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:50.699
I'll try to arrange that.

925
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:53.059
Okay. All right.

926
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:55.139
And if he wants to come up here, I'll sit

927
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.199
in with it too. Sure. I mean, he's the guy

928
00:42:58.219 --> 00:43:00.010
that has the strongest case it sounds like.

929
00:43:00.769 --> 00:43:03.409
Well, just because so many, and this is in a

930
00:43:03.449 --> 00:43:05.730
county that the Zodiac hasn't even known they kept committing

931
00:43:05.769 --> 00:43:06.590
any crimes in, really.

932
00:43:06.610 --> 00:43:07.170
Yeah.

933
00:43:07.250 --> 00:43:08.530
It was just the fact that one of the radios

934
00:43:08.570 --> 00:43:10.929
went through there, and there was a lot of unsolved homicides.

935
00:43:10.489 --> 00:43:13.070
In there, and they didn't have any answers for them.

936
00:43:13.429 --> 00:43:13.670
Yeah.

937
00:43:13.769 --> 00:43:15.469
He said this is the best thing he's heard. I mean,

938
00:43:15.550 --> 00:43:16.590
it makes total sense to him.

939
00:43:17.269 --> 00:43:20.710
Well, whatever. Like I said, you know, talk to him,

940
00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:22.710
see what he says, and we'll go from there.

941
00:43:23.070 --> 00:43:23.369
Okay.

942
00:43:23.389 --> 00:43:25.159
Do you know what area Kathleen Johns is in? I mean,

943
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:25.800
is she like up by you?

944
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.090
You know, they.

945
00:43:27.809 --> 00:43:30.769
I'm trying to remember whether she's in San Jose or

946
00:43:30.829 --> 00:43:36.780
whether she's in another... Because the sister called me, and

947
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:44.300
she went down and actually talked to... Excuse me, I

948
00:43:44.300 --> 00:43:47.489
was eavesdropping on somebody else's conversation. Oh, okay. Because I

949
00:43:47.510 --> 00:43:50.929
heard my name came up. But anyway, she talked to.

950
00:43:53.510 --> 00:43:56.269
A gal named Pam Huckabee, a gal named Linda Bowman,

951
00:43:56.289 --> 00:43:59.869
and both those people are sisters to Darlene Farrin.

952
00:44:00.010 --> 00:44:01.940
Yeah, I talked to Pam before myself.

953
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:05.320
And then she also talked to Kathleen Johns. Now, we

954
00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:07.679
did three of them. One lives in San Jose, one

955
00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:11.320
lives in Oregon, and one lives... somewhere else down there

956
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:13.389
in the Bay Area, and I forget exactly where at

957
00:44:13.429 --> 00:44:14.369
the moment. I see.

958
00:44:15.289 --> 00:44:16.809
Okay, so they're not up in your area then?

959
00:44:16.929 --> 00:44:18.210
No, none of them live up here.

960
00:44:18.489 --> 00:44:19.250
Okay.

961
00:44:19.469 --> 00:44:22.429
Yeah, I'll talk to him, see what he says, and

962
00:44:23.030 --> 00:44:25.050
I'll put him in touch with you.

963
00:44:25.449 --> 00:44:27.570
You'll keep me informed if I put him in touch

964
00:44:27.590 --> 00:44:28.230
with you?

965
00:44:28.250 --> 00:44:28.869
Oh, yeah.

966
00:44:29.070 --> 00:44:32.190
Okay. I've got nothing to hide from you.

967
00:44:32.250 --> 00:44:34.590
I know you know. You know how the FBI is

968
00:44:34.610 --> 00:44:36.469
kind of real secretive about what they do and stuff.

969
00:44:36.489 --> 00:44:38.809
Yeah, they do that for good reasons. Sometimes we do,

970
00:44:38.909 --> 00:44:41.670
you know, in the but right at the moment I've

971
00:44:41.690 --> 00:44:43.309
got nothing to hide from you and this wouldn't be

972
00:44:43.369 --> 00:44:45.289
I mean you're a cooperative witness why would I not

973
00:44:45.329 --> 00:44:47.530
cooperate with you right yeah that's true it doesn't work

974
00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:48.369
that way.

975
00:44:48.369 --> 00:44:50.530
Yeah well I could I could tell you the only

976
00:44:50.550 --> 00:44:52.519
reason I did that of course because I get so

977
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:54.400
frustrated because like I can't get an answer from San

978
00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:56.800
Francisco yeah and it's like you know I feel like

979
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.019
I have to do something you know that's the only

980
00:44:59.039 --> 00:44:59.780
reason but as.

981
00:44:59.739 --> 00:45:02.099
Long as I'm informed hey I I ain't saying nothing

982
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:02.619
to nobody.

983
00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:04.320
Okay. It works, you know.

984
00:45:04.780 --> 00:45:06.539
So, you know, as long as you understand that, I

985
00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:09.099
don't mind putting you in touch with that officer, you know.

986
00:45:09.139 --> 00:45:09.440
Okay.

987
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:12.440
He just asked me not to say who he.

988
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:13.880
Was, so, you know, I got to respect that.

989
00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:16.219
Yeah, and I respect that also. Okay. And if he

990
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.480
says I don't want to let him know, that's fine. Okay. But,

991
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:21.119
you know, if he wants to talk to me, he

992
00:45:21.139 --> 00:45:23.099
can talk to me. Okay. All righty.

993
00:45:23.219 --> 00:45:24.400
All right, Tom, we'll talk to you soon, man.

994
00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:24.639
All right.

995
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:25.139
Okay, bye-bye.

996
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:25.400
Bye-bye.

997
00:45:27.349 --> 00:45:29.159
Okay, and we're going to follow that up with one

998
00:45:29.739 --> 00:45:33.000
quick audio call on Kathleen Johns with Tom Connor from

999
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:34.519
South Lake Tahoe PD again.

1000
00:45:34.539 --> 00:45:39.099
Did you ever get in touch with... Oh, he said

1001
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.630
he would go with me to show... Kathleen Johnson. Yeah. Good.

1002
00:45:43.650 --> 00:45:43.869
Good.

1003
00:45:44.349 --> 00:45:48.130
You know, I talked to Donna Lass's sister today about that.

1004
00:45:48.150 --> 00:45:49.909
She thought it was a real good idea. So I'm

1005
00:45:49.929 --> 00:45:52.250
going to try to get Kathleen Johnson to call and

1006
00:45:52.389 --> 00:45:54.969
see if she's receptive to it. Okay. And I'll call

1007
00:45:54.989 --> 00:45:57.280
you back and let you know where she's at. Okay.

1008
00:45:57.300 --> 00:45:59.960
And then we can go from there. Did you figure

1009
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.219
out what area she's in? You know, right now, we've been,

1010
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:06.719
we had another day of shooting and stuff, so. Did you?

1011
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:11.719
I've been busy. But, uh, anyway, um, Okay. I'm working

1012
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:15.260
on something right at the moment, but I think I'll

1013
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:16.760
be done with that in just a minute or two.

1014
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:17.760
Are you at home?

1015
00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:18.400
Yeah.

1016
00:46:19.780 --> 00:46:23.110
That number real quick so I don't have to look

1017
00:46:23.269 --> 00:46:23.869
it up.

1018
00:46:23.889 --> 00:46:24.510
916-79-4251.

1019
00:46:24.590 --> 00:46:24.889
Okay.

1020
00:46:25.070 --> 00:46:29.369
I'll try to look it up and let you know

1021
00:46:29.389 --> 00:46:30.369
what area she's in.

1022
00:46:30.449 --> 00:46:30.690
Okay.

1023
00:46:30.710 --> 00:46:32.630
Appreciate it. Talk to you later. Okay.

1024
00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:33.070
Bye-bye.

1025
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:39.760
Okay, so there's everybody's proof when I stated and have

1026
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.530
maintained this entire time that they attempted to show Kathleen

1027
00:46:43.570 --> 00:46:49.230
Johns the audio or the video of Jack and listened.

1028
00:46:49.750 --> 00:46:52.929
They wanted her to view him and to hear him speak.

1029
00:46:53.650 --> 00:46:56.289
And when Dennis was put up the night before, I

1030
00:46:56.309 --> 00:46:59.320
believe in the Sonoma County area in order to facilitate this,

1031
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.280
he woke up in the morning and found out Kathleen

1032
00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:04.440
Johns had passed from a heart attack that night.

1033
00:47:04.929 --> 00:47:06.349
That's mysterious as hell.

1034
00:47:08.269 --> 00:47:14.000
But we have validation here that Kathleen Johns was being

1035
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.920
attempted to be contacted in regards to all of this.

1036
00:47:17.619 --> 00:47:20.260
So go ahead. Didn't your parents.

1037
00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:21.840
Live in Sonoma County in Petaluma?

1038
00:47:22.460 --> 00:47:22.900
What's that?

1039
00:47:23.619 --> 00:47:26.179
Kathleen Johns' parents. I'm pretty sure they lived in Petaluma.

1040
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.969
Yeah, I think that was the area or roundabout area. Lindsay,

1041
00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:33.110
you had something to say before we started these last

1042
00:47:33.130 --> 00:47:33.650
two audios?

1043
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.510
Yeah, so I was just going to, so yeah, so

1044
00:47:39.989 --> 00:47:42.250
the one before the last two, I was just going

1045
00:47:42.269 --> 00:47:48.889
to say how nonchalant, how just like relaxed, like, you know, cool,

1046
00:47:49.570 --> 00:47:54.320
like shit talking kind of like combo that he has

1047
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.500
with Dennis is kind of crazy to me.

1048
00:47:58.420 --> 00:47:59.139
They bonded.

1049
00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:01.900
I mean, they clearly bonded over the evidence that he saw.

1050
00:48:03.219 --> 00:48:07.730
And I think he's frustrated, too, that other law enforcement

1051
00:48:07.849 --> 00:48:09.369
isn't really taking him seriously.

1052
00:48:10.630 --> 00:48:14.349
And everybody keeps referring to the SFPD as those guys.

1053
00:48:15.369 --> 00:48:18.460
It's supposed to be us guys. Law enforcement is supposed

1054
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.340
to be us, not those. And that made me think

1055
00:48:21.460 --> 00:48:22.360
of youse guys.

1056
00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:22.699
Right.

1057
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:30.400
Nothing more than mob and syndicate, right? They're going to

1058
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:32.300
go rogue and do it the way they want and

1059
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:35.429
not participate and not help or assist. So we're still

1060
00:48:35.489 --> 00:48:37.690
sitting on this whole concept that we don't know whether

1061
00:48:37.710 --> 00:48:41.610
or not this palm print ever got looked at. No

1062
00:48:41.650 --> 00:48:44.230
decision on whether or not it matched or excluded Jack.

1063
00:48:44.610 --> 00:48:49.179
So again, we're left in limbo. And why do they

1064
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.179
have to have a working relationship? Tom Conner keeps saying,

1065
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:54.900
if you know somebody who has a working relationship with

1066
00:48:54.940 --> 00:48:57.699
these guys, that would get them on board to talk

1067
00:48:57.739 --> 00:49:02.860
with me. And why should that be a thing? I mean,

1068
00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:06.039
you're really showing us how incompetent our law enforcement is,

1069
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:12.010
even in the year 2000, right? 2000, this is probably,

1070
00:49:12.030 --> 00:49:15.610
I'm going to guess around 2001, 2002, somewhere around there.

1071
00:49:16.010 --> 00:49:19.530
I mean, not too long ago, we are still hearing

1072
00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:22.079
that our law enforcement cannot play nice together.

1073
00:49:22.099 --> 00:49:25.380
All right, well, that is good.

1074
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.530
And why is everyone else ignoring what happened in Sonoma County?

1075
00:49:29.590 --> 00:49:31.570
It's seven murders. Exactly.

1076
00:49:31.590 --> 00:49:32.230
Exactly.

1077
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:36.599
And still don't have answers for that. But here are

1078
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:40.559
all the URLs and the different audio files that we have.

1079
00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:42.099
We are at the end of the show with just

1080
00:49:42.139 --> 00:49:45.460
a couple seconds left here. Next week, we're going to

1081
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:48.840
hear one of Dennis's documentary. The following week, we'll hear

1082
00:49:48.889 --> 00:49:51.210
his second documentary. And then on the third week, I

1083
00:49:51.250 --> 00:49:53.570
will be back to bring alive all of the evidence

1084
00:49:53.590 --> 00:49:56.949
that supports Jack as a perfect suspect for the Zodiac.

1085
00:49:57.369 --> 00:49:58.110
You all take care.

1086
00:49:58.190 --> 00:50:00.010
Thank you, Lindsay and Nolan, for being here.

1087
00:50:00.030 --> 00:50:02.550
Have a great weekend, and we'll see you in three

1088
00:50:02.590 --> 00:50:03.130
weeks from now.

1089
00:50:03.750 --> 00:50:04.320
See you soon.