Zodiac Killer Attacks 2 at More Lake Berryessa

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. Good Morning,

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True seekers and true crime junkies.
Welcome back to another episode of Hit the

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Road Jack Finding the Zodiac. Today
we are going to talk a little bit.

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I'm bringing some things back from last
week we were going to have.

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I'd like to actually welcome on now
Nolan del Campo and Terry Batcher. Good

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morning, Good morning. Okay,
So I literally started to work on the

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word pick up last week. I
think, if you remember, Nolan,

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I had done some comparisons to the
word pickups, and I thought it was

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probably in my best interest to go
and look and see what I could find

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from Jack, because I was really
just making a comparison between the crime notes

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themselves. So I went back and
I looked up some stuff from Jack.

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Let's go ahead and throw the power
point. I'll show you guys, what

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I found, all right? So
up here in this left horror is my

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mouse come here, all right?
So up here in this left hand corner,

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I have the word pickup twice,
pick off twice, and the word

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picked up, and that runs down
the top is Jack, and the next

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is John Benet Ramsey, followed by
the Atlanta Georgia Killer, followed by the

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Zodiac Killer, and then followed by
Jack once again. When I actually found

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the word pickup in Jack's writing.
Now, of course, the context of

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the word pickup is used differently between
these two messages, so one is hyphenated

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and one is not. But when
I put those together, I found that

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the lineup and the spacing of these
were pretty darn accurate, I'd say,

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I mean, obviously, despite the
fact that that hyphen is in there,

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there's quite a decent space beyond the
hyphen for the word up in the John

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Benet Ramsey version of pickup. But
we still found that the U fell on

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the right hand side of that marker. And when we did the lineup of

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Atlanta, Georgia and the Zodiac Killer, we found that the lineup and spacing

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of those were also similar to one
another. So now we have spacing and

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lineup between Jack and John ben A. Ramsey and then the Atlanta Georgia and

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the Zodiac. When I found this
other word picked up from Jack, I

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found that the sea. Can you
guys, see that that c is identical

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in shape in form, despite or
missing the connections because the bottom picked up

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is incursive, we can still see
that the form, in shape and of

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those character letters are actually in um
are consistent with one another. Also to

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the fact that the eye dotting of
the eye actually took place over the top

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of the sea in both cases between
Jack and the Zodiac. So I thought

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that was a very interesting find.
A lot of people will ask me how

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I can cross compare cursive writing with
with printed writing, and this is how

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we This is how we would do
it. Obviously this is not incursive,

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but we can still see that the
shape and the flow as it moves from

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one to the next is still similar. The slant is the same, the

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placement of the eye dots the same, the shape of this he is the

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same. So that's what I look
at when I'm looking at cursive writing.

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If that's all I have to compare
to a printed written letter, UM,

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what do you guys think about that, Well, you don't have much of

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zodiac and that's Jack right. Zodiac
was a strict M, a strict print,

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and of course we can see that
by this this two stroke P up

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here, So we have the stem
that comes down and then we have the

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bull that's made separately. That's not
the easiest or fastest way to create the

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letter P. So um. That's
what people do when they're attempting to disguise

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their handwriting, is they'll go into
a strict two and three stroke, hoping

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that they don't leave any of their
signs behind. But we've already made a

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match to Jack and the zodiac on
the p's, so I'm not worried about

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how this one looks different from here
so far, because we know that in

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Jacks. Like one comments that I
make about it is that I picked up

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on it. Picked up on it
last week and your last presentation, Nolan

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brought it up, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right,

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pick up. I didn't even you
know blue right. I've looked at that

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ransom note. I've had that thing
opened many times over the years, and

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it's surprising what you could miss.
You know what I'm saying I mean for

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me anyway, I'm still fighting stuff. But you know what I'm saying.

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I was I thought, oh,
absolutely went back and yeah that's absolutely a

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good point, you know, and
all the other thing. I could sit

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and talk about and tell you about
things about that for hours on end,

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and I would when they had pick
up, you know, until last week.

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You know what I'm saying, Well, we did cover um. And

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actually I'm going to make a disclosure
really quick. I had this very interesting

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phone call from a gentleman who wanted
to show me his soult to the ciphers

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um. He called something the golden
ratio. Have either of you heard of

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that? No, something in mathematics
land. It's something, it's something to

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do with mathematics, and it has
something to do with um. These numbers

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he gave. He gave me a
list of numbers and he said, add

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them up, divide them. You
keep coming up with this one point six

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two ratio, but whenever I applied
it to the dates of the murders,

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I couldn't get it to come up
to one point six two. And it

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frustrated him. So he got offensive
and rude and started acting like I was

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too stupid to handle a calculator.
Before I know it, I'm cussing at

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him. He's cussing at me,
and he tells me see you next Tuesday.

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I haven't been called to see you
next Tuesday in a long long time.

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Either way, I just wanted to
make a disclosure to everybody out there.

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If you're going to request my time
and energy to listen to your story

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about how your suspect is the Zodiac
killer, do not be rude and offensive.

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Just send me the handwriting the birthdate
of your of your suspect. If

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you have a solve to one of
the ciphers, feel free to share your

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methodology with me as concise as you
can be in if I can reproduce that

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what you found objectively, I will
share yourself. But please do not get

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upset if I cannot recreate it,
because it seems so fantastical. He literally

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thought that, um, all of
the dates of the murders amounted to a

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golden ratio, And he tried to
discuss some mathematical equation, and then he

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and then when he got rude.
It was more or less he was comparing

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some Stanford mathematician to me, And
I said, whoa, WHOA, I

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do and writing, not math.
Dude. Ya comes to people out there,

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they are going to be su about
the zodiac stuff. Most of us

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nonsense. You got the right guy. It's Jack Terrence says. Nobody else

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fits the whole bill, and it
tells you, oh, it's this guy

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that they're full of crap, because
the guy is Jack W. John W.

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Terrence Junior JA Jack Darnes. That's
the guy. The evidence is over

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freaking wealthy. You know. They
laughed because he kept saying Jack Torrance with

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an OO is not the suspect,
and I kept thinking inside my head,

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you're right, it's Jack Terrence,
not Torrance. I want to throw one

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real quick thing in about math,
though at some point I'm going to show

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you the seven come eleven stuff,
which he definitely did and has intentionally put

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seven and eleven stuff, you know, because the Paradise slaves, pair of

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dice and all this sort of stuff
that hint. But we'll come to that

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later seven eleven thing. Fancy math
applying to that stuff, now, you

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know. And I've heard the mathematical
thing before. They talk about the last

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eighteen on the unsolved portion of the
hardened solve, and somebody wanted to say

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that that worked out somehow to Michigan
Math Thesis winner or something like that.

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So I've heard a lot of math
being wrapped around it. But Jack was

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an engineer and math it revolves around
his life. Well, he knews some

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math here and there. But to
say that there's a formula for this,

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I mean, yeah, like you
say, give him a chance to show

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you. But you know I it's
when he gets mad and you don't give

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it. Well, that's a dead
giveaway. That's you know. Yeah,

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he's been your wheels on a lot
of people like that. Yeah, when

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when when we were we were in
text mode before we started talking, and

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he was extremely um. He was
being offensive in that well you're closed minded

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and blah blah blah. I said, how am I closed mind? And

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this is why I text mind you? I said, how am I closed

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minded? I asked you to send
me his handwriting and I told you to

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call me, call me before five
pm and we'll discuss it. And if

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either of those don't work for you, I'm not the one that's closed minded.

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You are right, he's a narcissist. Right as soon as they start

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out of your personality, I want
to control you. There you're an overbearing

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narcissist system. Yeah, he kept
telling me I'm wrong. Get it.

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You can't tell me I'm wrong.
He's right. I'm like, that is

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not the way you get Somebody need
to listen to you. So back to

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this last week, we introduced the
debut letter, as Terry calls it,

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of the Zodiac speaking, which is
the no Address letter. And I remember

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you telling me all this time that
you kept finding these tim King clues inside

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of the communications, and so I
thought this is probably a good time because

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you had brought it up about that
when we were talking, and how that

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relates to the Oakland County child killer
case of Timothy King, and that more

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communications to come. We will be
making the same references as they come about.

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But the FBI did state that the
Zodiac Killer predicted as crimes. I

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could never really understand that because it
kind of appeared to me that he was

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leaving clues about the past crimes and
his communications not so much. I mean,

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I don't I do know that the
one in New York, Yes,

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that that was a predictive code that
he stated he was going to kill somebody

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in the future, But I hadn't
really seen that before. So can you

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kind of explain that to us where
you're seeing I have it up here on

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the screen. I had circled downwards
the sport. Yeah, I can show

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you that point out the obvious.
There's Tim on the left side, Berkeley

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and the capital ki MG, and
he used that capital kg to a greater

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degree later on on some of the
documents will see later. But I actually

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came back to find this after I
knew that he was placing great emphasis on

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capital ki n G starting in seventy
eight and the Ramsey Marano and now of

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course they found recently and I found
this kaf forwards with that secret secret witness

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document from the occ K case where
he put King on there twice with capital

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ki MG. So he's you know, it's another one of these things where

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he does this redundantly to where you
Okay, I get it. You're you're

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saying King. Let's go back.
So I went back and did a review

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of the Zodiac Killer documents, went
to the debut of the Zodiac. It

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was up to that point there was
no Zodiac Killer. The Zodiac thing came

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on right after Larry Lake, Barry
Essa and the knife attacks on Heartnel.

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So this is before the Zodiac.
Speaking is before the Lake barry Essa.

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No, well, unless they're telling
me the wrong thing. I looked this

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morning. I looked up the subject
and they're saying this happened in August.

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Wasn't Lake barry Essa in September?
Remember, Yeah, so that the debut

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of Zodi all right, this came
first. So it was I'm sorry I

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had that backwards just like that.
This is my life. I was up

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at four in the morning, so
I'm a little punchy here. But so

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anyway, yeah, right away,
you know, and as soon as I

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went back to look at this,
this and some of the sister documents to

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these speaking documents. The first time
I saw him, that caught my mind's

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eye. And trust me, my
subconscious is several times smarter than I actually

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am. And it was like,
okay, but you don't you know,

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fully doesn't register. And they came
back and go, oh my god,

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he's got t I M right there
on the left hand side playing his name

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big and loud, and on the
right hand side he's got King. So

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do you think it was back to
think he chronologically that I discovered it?

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Okay, and if he does it
over and over and over. He does

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it repeatedly. He puts tik M
M and I w W. They looked

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like m's inverted, and he loves
to invert things as a lot of things

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and devices he used Terry terry,
terry, terry. I'm sorry, I

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got control here. So what you
want me to say about this? It's

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still ob us a left sun right? No, no, no. So

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you think that he was literally planning
this as much as seven years in advance,

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Oh, absolutely, And then you
get to the question why, which

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we can talk about later. But
I asked the question why, and you

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know, basically he's making statements all
the time. He was constantly making statements.

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And in this case, I think
the hy had to do with his

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father, and his dad was an
attorney and was stationed in Vietnam, and

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it was relocating people from the militarized
zone further south, rebuilding their encampments and

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stuff for them, and probably putting
buttons on them to identify them, you

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know, because of the language barrier. I don't know, just to guess

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on my part. Oh see,
I thought you knew. I thought you

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knew that he was using buttons,
and that's how you made a connection.

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To the buttons law. Did not
know that it was a theory. Why

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the fixation on buttons, as we'll
see him Zodiac killer documents. You have

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this fixation on the word buttons,
buttons, dispelled them, intentionally spelled them

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correctly, things like that. But
it brings me to my next point is

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that you also commented that the zodiac
spelling errors were definitely intentional to place on

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the item as a signal, which
is also along the lines of what Harriet

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believed. She believed that there was
intentional pointing out or misspellings to draw your

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attention to that portion, and then
somewhere between those missmellings were the message that

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was really trying to be conveyed.
And I'm hoping to have her on next

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week to do the actual soul that
she has for the newest signal. That'll

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be interesting. But you also believe
that, oh yeah, there are signals,

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is the intentionally misspelled words or signals, and what those signals actually are

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what the actual message always trying to
point to take some more study, and

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you have to take it around and
then it'd be nice to find some proof.

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And there is some proof in different
forms. But we get into a

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deeper, deeper subject when we go
there with that. But the point is

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is, yeah, you can see
that on for example, the Ramsey Murder

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notes, some difficult words were spelled
perfectly correctly, and others were intentionally misspelled,

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like business and possession. We're intentionally
misspelled. And so he definitely knows

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how to spell when you can spell
adequately properly things like that, because he

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proved that he can spell it,
and plus you could. You know,

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It's like Bob Shild's always said,
how long do you think in advance he

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wrote this stuff? I said,
I think he's put a lot of time

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into planning everything he did right,
and you also sorry, You also mentioned

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that there was a switching of key
codes can show a far different message.

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So what did you mean by switching
key codes? Well, I mean is

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if this this is old gangster stuff
going back, they're old black white movies

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that touched on this, where these
gangs would communicate with each other by using

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applying a key code to a daily
publication like a newspaper. And then if

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you have a different key code for
each person you're dealing with or whatever,

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you can control the message they get
and you get vice versa. And so

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in other words, you can take
a page and write a key code and

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just take any any production, anything
you want, and write a key code,

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and your messages is now with If
a person has that key codeing right

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to anything, you can take this
first paragraph and make it into a convoluted

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into a key quote. So if
you have a key, you have a

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key to something. You have a
way of communicating when nobody knows it unless

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you have the key codes. You
know what I'm saying, because they can

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pick up the newspaper that, oh
it says the rain in Spain, blah

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blah blah, you know, and
then you decode that old the boss man

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wants me to do this, and
that it's it's it's a it goes way

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back, it goes back. They
touched about stuff and as where old black

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and white movies are great because they
talk about that stuff being around already,

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you know, in the twenties and
earlier. And it's yes, kind of

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quote and information is way older.
It's centuries old really, but putting it

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in a saying it's easy to understand. Putting it in a movie makes it

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seem so fantastical. So um,
you know, like you couldn't imagine that

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these kind of things are going on, But I do. I know that,

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Nolan. You a lot books about
the CIA and about that kind of

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stuff. And yeah, to the
NSA, they're the ones that are there,

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the code soldiers. Oh, and
actually the biggest security organization in the

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United States. They're bigger than CIA, bigger than the FBI National Security Association.

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And where did they came out of? I think I talked about this

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before. They came out of the
early on before. So like the the

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FBI and the NSA were a spinoff
of something else. The CIA and the

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NSA came out of the OSS right
after World War Yes, right where I

249
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was around for a long time,
and Hoover was in charge of the FBI

250
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from the late twenties on. I
can't remember what I ate for breakfast,

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but I can remember stuff like that. My brain is just crammed with senseless

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stuff. Best the best book about
codes and the NSA is called The Puzzle

253
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Palace. Huh, oh, very
good. Is it a lengthy book?

254
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Is it easy to read? It's
tough to get through, so it's really

255
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technical, but it's a great book. It's uh. It's often quoted gotcha,

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And there's probably not a perfect science
because as you can imagine, if

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you have gangsters using their own lingo
that you know, the communicates, and

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they use it, they're already speaking
in code, you know, with with

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this guy is this and you know
represents something. Now you're trying to break

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00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:34.880
that code, well you got to
know their lingo thinking of how they talk

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to you, who they were referring
to. They might add pet names and

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things like that. So it was
very difficult to crack that kind of a

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code, you know, almost maybe
impossible many times you'll you know, but

264
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that's what they say. The only
person who can really correct the code as

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the person with the key. So
right, all right, Well then that

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brings me to Terry's take on the
Tayton Lobby Onca Murners, which I thought,

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Um, Nolan, this is probably
your your your realm NA, yeah,

268
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because I am not really up to
date on any of this stuff,

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but um, some of the things
he mentioned to me I thought was interesting

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was that Manson admitted to be in
a crime family operative to Geraldo, Um,

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both La Bianca and Folger the coffee
heiress were big money, which you

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know, I never even really touched
on that terry when I when I listed

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those and I ran past them just
because it was something happening during the time.

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What I failed to recognize is that
we had Georgette Bauerdorff in this series

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and she was a oil heiress.
We had Tennyson in nineteen forty eight,

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who was the son of a steel
magnet. We have senators daughters that are

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being killed, and all of these
have in common is that they're all unsolved

278
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murders. I mean, well,
with the exception of the Titan La Bianca,

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they obviously hemmed up for people for
people for it. But um,

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yeah, that's where you guys take
over think real quick. As Tom O'Neill

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00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:07.400
checked him out on Joe Rogan Show
talking about this stuff, and he revealed

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some he was a deep dive into
that whole subject of that a lot more

283
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than I'm just kind of superficial to
the Masoning chis book called Chaos. I

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mentioned it last week, and it's
about mainly the date Lobbianca murders and the

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Manson claim, but it's also about
the FBI, the CIA and domestic programs.

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And there's one theory that Manson was
actually an informant and another theory that

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he was actually doing hits for other
people and it was some of the not

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just these murders, but others as
well. So yeah, and it goes

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into mtel Pro and mk Ultra.
It's a really good book, really well

290
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researched, really well written. I
think it came out in about twenty eleven.

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00:21:55.480 --> 00:22:00.880
Chaos is Tom O'Neill. Yeah,
So what did you mean by Boobilisi

292
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:06.480
was a phony? Well, the
stuff he was writing about and you can

293
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you can check this out with a
better I mean a guy like um Tom

294
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O'Neill, and he is just saying, you know, the more you look

295
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into Booliosi, even his his stuff
on the GfK assassination, the more you

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00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.359
realize that he's just a pontificating mess. He was nothing. He was.

297
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.119
He got more things wrong. He
wrote an interesting book, so lots of

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copies, but a lot of its
fiction. And I have friends that are

299
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.960
voracious readers that have told me that
they're saying, yeah, as far as

300
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:45.480
that term calling Polanski a super Jew, I can pick that up in trade

301
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.000
school from a guy that was a
Jew. I didn't know a jew from

302
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:49.720
my elbow. You know, when
I was in trade school and his name

303
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.960
was I forget. Now he says
he described himself as a super Jew.

304
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.759
I said, what's that and he
says, well, he's my people will

305
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.480
put me in business. Several times. I can go bank up and they'll

306
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.440
put me back into business. And
he says, we have special protection and

307
00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:07.799
special privileges that you you Pians don't
have this sort of stuff. Now,

308
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:12.240
whether it was blathering so I just
used that term and describing Polanski because look

309
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.680
at him, he got to buy
with being a rapist that escaped him,

310
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.960
is hiding around Europe, but yet
nobody picks him up and brings him back

311
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.319
and haulds him to trial. So
he's got protection. Look at the protection

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00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:27.079
Epstein had, you know, uh, and then the protection went away suddenly

313
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:33.440
on him. One day. You
can get back to Bugliosi and the Tate

314
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:40.160
Lobbianka. So Bugliosi was the la
da that prosecuted that take Lobbianca cases.

315
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:45.480
There was also another murder, Gary
Hinman murder committed by Bobby Bosley who was

316
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:51.680
one of the family and Susan Atkins, but they chose not to include that

317
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.079
and to take Labbianca because it didn't
have the headlines. That's the type of

318
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.680
guy Bugliosi was. But also then
he wrote the famous book or Skelter based

319
00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:07.519
on his theory of the motive and
the Tate Lobbianca murders, being that Charles

320
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.400
Manson wanted to incite a race war
between the blacks and the whites, and

321
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.599
that's why they were trying to make
it look like the Black Panthers had committed

322
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:19.559
a lot of these murders, and
they would they would write things that they

323
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:23.960
were trying to frame the Black panthers. So he was setting the narrative kind

324
00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.759
of like Gray Smith Witt did against
Arthur Lee Allen and his Zodiac books and

325
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.960
so and so, what Tom and
Neil says is that that theory of that

326
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.160
motive for these murders it's just all
wrong. It's it's it's all Bugliosi.

327
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.839
He didn't to sell books, and
it's not it's not a valid theory of

328
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.559
the motive. Well, then that
makes sense to me now because it hadn't

329
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.759
before, and you would, and
Terry, you had also said that Tate

330
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:56.799
and Seabring were lovers. Yeah,
there's a picture on the internet going around

331
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:57.880
as you're product to go in the
way back, but you'd find it.

332
00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:03.279
But in the back yard of I
think the Key residence, there is a

333
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:10.160
picture of a pregnant uh Sharon Tate
with uh Jay Seabring. That's a fake

334
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.279
name, that was in his real
name. He was from out east.

335
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:18.079
Anyway, He's standing there wearing a
speed a sporting a big heart on.

336
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.039
You know. I'm like, and
so that's something that Tom O'Neill also says

337
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.400
that that that they were lovers,
and I how I got to confirm that,

338
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.799
But I can only point to the
one picture if you can find it

339
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.359
of him them standing in the backyard, like, oh, here's my pregnant

340
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.200
wife and she's with her friend.
He's got a he's wearing a speed right.

341
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.519
You know, he's you know,
sticking off. You know what I'm

342
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.519
saying. It's like, oh,
mad, you know who does that?

343
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.480
Who does that with a guy's wife? You know, if he's supposed to

344
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:56.240
be Polanski's wife. I mean maybe
in California or a Yeah, it's well

345
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:03.480
documented that and Aaron Tate her boyfriend
girlfriend before she met Polanski, right,

346
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.279
Oh, but he still was in
love with her until the day they both

347
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:17.160
died because I don't remember that sort
of detail now I've read, so basically

348
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:19.920
she's still hanging out with him obviously, even while her husband is out of

349
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:23.640
town. Right, Yeah, they're
really good friends. Yeah, they were

350
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:36.279
tight. I betted to motive.
What's that? Two other points that can

351
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.599
go to motive for for the Tate
murders anyway, and uh perhaps love Yanka

352
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:49.759
both Seabring and Frankowski, uh Fulger's
boyfriend that were heavily involved in dope dealing,

353
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:59.880
Frank with MBMA and Seabreen with cocaine, so right into the Chicago drug

354
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:07.279
mafia kind of stuff. Yeah.
We Kowski had ties to Canada and that's

355
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:11.920
where the main uh suppliers the m
DMA were coming and he was going to

356
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.359
be the La connection. And you
have to kind of be made to do

357
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.960
that, right. You don't get
to you don't get back in those days

358
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.720
what people don't understand and probably still
today, you don't get to be a

359
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:29.640
drug dealer in any particular area that
is primarily ran by somebody who's a strong

360
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:33.680
arming person, Right, I mean
you are either given way to do that

361
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.960
or you're taken out of the way. Yeah. And Sebring also was known

362
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.640
as the hair dresser to the stars. He was the most famous hairdresser in

363
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:48.119
LA at that time. Yep,
Well what his real name wasn't all in

364
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.960
us, like I could look it
up, but yeah, JC Breven after

365
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:57.599
Sea Breed Raceway, it's more Sea. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a

366
00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:02.559
fancy His real name was not fancy. And he's buried in Michigan. I'd

367
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.240
stayed in Michigan or whatever I think
under his real name. I don't remember,

368
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.119
but but yeah, absolutely, it's
yeah. He was a big deal

369
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.240
and so it wasn't another act of
domestic terrorism in all of I was just

370
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.920
gonna say, you just took my
words right out of my mouth. It

371
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.960
does seem to run intoandem with other
strong arm attempts at very influential people that

372
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:26.359
resulted in an unsolved murder of a
loved one. So um, yeah,

373
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.880
I although, like I said,
they're they're back and forth. You one

374
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.359
day you get you get yes,
Manson was the perpetrator of it, and

375
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.920
the next day it is he's part
of some you know, larger group or

376
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.839
organization. Um, but I think
that there's enough evidence with what I've read

377
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:45.400
and what you guys are talking about
to say that there is likelihood that Manson

378
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:49.960
was part of something much larger.
And what is the family and everybody keeps

379
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:55.079
saying the family. Let us not
forget him. The mk Ultra factor,

380
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.599
which you know that's come up for
a long time, and also this stuff

381
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.079
comin'neilside up and and I'm sure Noli
can tell you a little more about that.

382
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:11.680
But there's Cisco with there was a
famous MK Ultra Cia doctor. I

383
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:17.200
don't want to come scientists that I
guess Gottlieb. I think the doctor was

384
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.960
Gottlieb, but I want to say
that No, Gotlieb was in charge of

385
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:26.920
back East and this guy was acid
with Gotli that was his name. So

386
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.160
as yours I can tell is that
it originated in New York and was in

387
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.720
Japan and then in nineteen fifty five
it came to San Francisco. So they

388
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:40.200
had already opened operations in New York
with the MK Ultra and I think that's

389
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.279
where Gottlieb. But maybe Gotlieb was
the one that was involved with the Canada.

390
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.920
I'm not there's so many locations,
but I know that Canada, New

391
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.359
York, Japan and San Francisco were
all hot spots. And we know that

392
00:29:53.640 --> 00:30:00.119
the Zodiac Killer makes references to all
of those locations. Jolly West, what

393
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:07.240
was CIA affiliated psychologist, psychiatrists,
mind control, m KA Ultra hypnotists.

394
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.759
And he had an office at the
San Francisco they hate Ashbury Free Free Medical

395
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:19.640
Clinic. And the Charles Manson's parole
officer, Roger Smith, after he finished

396
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.880
being a federal parole officer, also
had an office there. And those two

397
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:29.720
the people at Manson saw quite often. And now there's theories that both of

398
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.119
them were involved in in kay Ultra
And there's a reason why man Manson would

399
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:38.359
get in trouble and he never got
his parole violat and then he would get

400
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:44.200
arrested several times and nothing would ever
happened to him. They let him out

401
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.799
all the time. So that says, how can this keep happening? Do

402
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:55.240
you think right? And do you
think the Family is any relation to what

403
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.480
you know I've been talking about this
Netflix thing called the Family um, which

404
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:04.559
is the high powered, high powered
and elite people who actually run the world,

405
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.480
not just our country, but the
world. Um is that you think

406
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:14.319
there's a relation between those two families. The Family, I think it's coincidental.

407
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.119
Family is just another name for what
they call the Manson Clan of the

408
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:23.559
mainly women, but some men and
some people were in it for forever.

409
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.519
Some people were in it for a
month, a week or whatever. But

410
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:36.000
they just The book that sand Ed
Sanders wrote on the Manson Clan is called

411
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:41.079
The Family, So that's what they
were known as. These guys, these

412
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.920
guys could very well be just a
subset of the family. I mean,

413
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.359
if they're doing the bidding of the
high power elite and the ones that are

414
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.440
running drugs and running guns and doing
the things that the average public is not

415
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:56.279
doing, they would be the family
to me, right religious the people that

416
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.559
were based in Manson's Controllers, Yeah, I might have been linked up to

417
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:06.240
what you're saying, that dear picture
of a bigger family, gotcha. I'm

418
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.680
not going to say controllers, but
handlers. Handlers there you go, all

419
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:14.519
right, Well, that's going to
actually take us into if I can get

420
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.440
myself over here, it's going to
take us into Lake Barriessa. Come here,

421
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.599
ah. So on September twenty seventh, nineteen sixty nine, Brian Hartnell

422
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:27.960
and Cecilia Shepherd or at Lake Barriessa. This is the first time the Zodiac

423
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.880
appears in a hood that has the
zodiac sign sewn onto it. And I

424
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:35.680
liked Terry's take on this. Terry, you had something to say about the

425
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:42.240
hood that we spoke about briefly yesterday. Well, had had these two perished

426
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.839
at that attack, nobody know about
the hood, and so it would have

427
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:50.640
been a useless play. And the
fact that Cecia Shepherd passed away, what

428
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.160
about twenty four hours later, slipped
into a callment and never came back,

429
00:32:53.960 --> 00:33:00.279
shows that she must have been very
carefully and skillfully stabbed twenty times. It

430
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:04.480
was twenty six times, I believe, versus Hartnell was sitting up in bed,

431
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.720
you know, so she was able
to able to corroborate what what Brian

432
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:13.279
Hartnell was saying. So head they
died. No, there's no good for

433
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.960
the hood hood. So this whole
Zodiac thing would have fallen to the wayside.

434
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:22.640
So yeah, and notice that,
notice how Jack drew emphasis to the

435
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.480
word knife over there on the card, or look at how big that f

436
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:36.839
is right now that but but on
that actually on the bleeding knife of the

437
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.920
zodiac one that I sent you,
notice that that knife is not covered with

438
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.559
blood. Only a portion of that
knife has blood on it. Other words,

439
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:49.359
like the stabbing wound wasn't very deep
because if you if you wanted to

440
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.799
dispatch someone with a big knife,
you hit a vital and they're gonna they're

441
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.720
immediately done for. I mean,
they're not going to say another word.

442
00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:59.440
They're going to go into shock and
that's the end of their life. And

443
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.359
you know I do that that didn't
happen. So this is a message,

444
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.400
like you pointed out, and that
it's a message, just like all this

445
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.840
stuff is a message. Well,
so now let let me give you guys

446
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.199
this because I just stumbled across this
as I was preparing for this week,

447
00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:17.440
but this was what was actually going
on. So in keeping with the underground

448
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:22.840
syndicate mafia unions the biggest of the
big money, let's explore another avenue into

449
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.159
what was happening at this time.
These killings may have been a direct message

450
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:34.599
or distraction in an ongoing labor dispute
between first emergency responders and elected officials,

451
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.719
warning them to back down. The
killer made a call after each attack the

452
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:43.360
public is against cops and firemen going
and the firemen are going on strike,

453
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.000
and they did actually within days of
this particular murder go on strike. So

454
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.679
this put pressure on the taxpayers to
put the bill and end the strike as

455
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:54.719
soon as possible. This resulted in
more money, more new hires, and

456
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:59.960
a new nine one one call center
which was everything the employees in the union

457
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.039
we're asking for. Well that's interesting, I've never heard that before, but

458
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.599
things like that do make sense.
It's, you know, the killer's camp,

459
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:14.079
or the monopolized media as they are
these days. They're in the side

460
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.000
shows all the time, and they
have much more power than you or I

461
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:22.760
talking about something and putting out a
podcast, because remember when they say something

462
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.840
on the tube, they're getting to
millions of people at one time, so

463
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.400
they can you know. So yeah, it's not surprising. But of course,

464
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.920
back in those days it might not
have been such a monopolized media.

465
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:37.760
There might have actually been more people
that had that had different opinions about things,

466
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.519
or different takes or well what it
What it kind of struck me as

467
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:47.199
is this Golden State killer revelation with
the DNA, where now this whole entire

468
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:53.119
press release on them finding the Golden
State killer really revolved around a bunch of

469
00:35:53.119 --> 00:36:00.599
officials pontificating about themselves and ultimately making
a draw on the public for us to

470
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:07.519
pressure for more funds for DNA testing
and research. Um. So that kind

471
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:09.400
of reminds me of the same thing. Whenever they want something, they can

472
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.239
create some crisis or antagonist type situation
like you said, publicize it on the

473
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:20.840
media out there so that the public
gets in enough war and gets on board

474
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.559
with assisting them and what they really
want to which in that case was more

475
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:28.599
money for DNA research. They do
it all the time. That's their their

476
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.159
best. They have a right there. Why and why wouldn't they have They've

477
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:34.199
got that kind of part. I
mean, they'd say, oh, let's

478
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.719
see what we can do is raise
some funds for this or that or whatever

479
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:43.719
it's or to change laws, yes, to change laws. Yeah, it's

480
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.320
just like absolutely absolutely. Look at
the Vietnam War, the ten offensive that

481
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.400
was that was you know, they
and the sinking of the ship in the

482
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:59.320
Harvard They the sinking of the main
in Cuba. Throughout history, they stage

483
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:05.559
he's the bear in order to change
policy or change the public way of looking

484
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:09.119
at things so they can get laws
and acted, war started. Whatever it

485
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:15.559
has to happen. So well,
and I heard that a lot every time

486
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:19.400
we have a mass shot, school
shooting or something like that, the public

487
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.880
goes into a fit of oh,
it's another one of these scenarios that's been

488
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.440
created to take more of our gun
rights away. They just don't want us

489
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.360
to have guns, so they create
these situations and then they lose that to

490
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.159
take the guns away from the law
abiding citizens who are here to protect the

491
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.360
public right. It's a fear factor
thing too. I believe that they want

492
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.920
more than just you know, you
and I. We'd like to get a

493
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.199
two for one deal. We'd like
to get a deal or a two for

494
00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.960
one deal. I think that they
ringed some of the stuff so that they

495
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.960
get way more than a two for
one or a three for one deal when

496
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.760
they do something, so they might
have a whole scheming and a bunch of

497
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:58.679
things that they feel that they're going
to advantages they're gonna get. So yeah,

498
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:05.119
that's and it hasn't it really escalated
ever since the George Floyd thing.

499
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.079
I mean, it's really those country's
gone crazy with all these murders go on,

500
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:13.079
and now there's the label. It's
incredible that it's outrageous, you know,

501
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.079
but well it kind of makes sense
to me. I mean, since

502
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:22.239
we have this political notion that the
Killers Camp seems to be following in these

503
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.480
communications even call out, you know, politicians being scared of him, which

504
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.039
doesn't make any sense because if he's
just some low life member of the public

505
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.559
that's running around randomly killing people,
why would any politician fear him? What

506
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.679
would he have? Does he have
pictures, does he have information? What

507
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.039
does he have on these people?
Other than maybe these situations where exactly what

508
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:46.079
he was hired to do was to
create this type of fear or what have

509
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:51.199
you. I know that in Berkeley
and San Francisco they were rioting because of

510
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.079
the Vietnam Wars. Here's another way
to get people off the streets, you

511
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.840
know, freak him out through the
newspapers and make them run and hide instead

512
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:01.960
of being out protest what the government
was actually up to. Yeah. Yes,

513
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:08.880
And that's one of Tom O'Neil's themes
too about the Manson murders. What

514
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:17.119
they're called is basically it After those
murders, people the general public had a

515
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.679
different way of looking at what they
call hippies and so called like a student

516
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:27.760
protesters, people's long hair, and
people that were kind of progressive. That

517
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.000
people were a lot more fearful of
them. Yea. And they call it

518
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:36.559
basically at the end of the sixties, sold on a fear factor. These

519
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:38.679
days, fear factor is a big
thing. And look at what you're when

520
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:44.280
you get on the free so called
free television networks whatever, it's always on

521
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:46.960
fear or something. If they're selling
something, afraid you need this or you're

522
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.119
afraid for that person. Yeah,
that's why I can't watch that. They

523
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:58.480
played that gun grabbing game for for
decades, where it's okay, they tell

524
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:00.719
the Democrats, Okay, you play
like you're going to take their guns away,

525
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:04.199
and we're gonna play it like in
all you need, we're on their

526
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:09.960
side. All right. Well,
I just want to correct earlier I said,

527
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.480
I said, I misspoke. I
was referring to the Gulf of Tompkin

528
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:22.760
regarding the Vietnam War as an incident
that was to provoke deeper involvement in the

529
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.159
Vietnam War. It was a stage. It was fake. Yeah right,

530
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.519
Wow. However, it just never
ceases to amaze me. But let's get

531
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:37.239
back to Cecilia and Brian. So
the Zodiac Killer binds the couple with clothesline

532
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:42.920
stabs Cecilia Shephard twenty plus times she
passes out at the hospital or she passes

533
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.239
sorry at the hospital, so she
was able to give her first statement.

534
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:51.320
At this point in time, she's
a student at UC Riverside per Am Foya

535
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.840
file from the FBI on October fourth
of nineteen sixty nine. He stabs Brian

536
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.719
Hart now six to seven times,
but he survives as well. And both

537
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:06.000
of these murders are on the murder
map from Sandy Bets. So keeping in

538
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.239
I did map out and kind of
give everybody an idea to see what it

539
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:15.000
looked like where the location was in
Lake Barry Assa. This is just two

540
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:19.559
different versions looking two different ways at
the same actual peninsula in which they were

541
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.679
laying on the blanket at Lake Berryessa. And then somebody on the internet had

542
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.400
placed a picture up here more in
color showing you the tree that the Zodiac

543
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:32.199
was hiding behind and where they were
actually laid out next to the water.

544
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:38.000
So the Zodiac killer also knew exactly
where the location was in regards to park

545
00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:43.079
headquarters. We didn't have GPS back
in those days, but he literally made

546
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.280
a phone call saying two miles north
or something like that, like he was

547
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:51.280
very specific as if he knew how
to track location, and we know that

548
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:55.320
Jack was really really good at that
so and also having he would add had

549
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:00.800
familiarity with the area. I think
one of the things I read this week

550
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.280
indicated that they believed that he was
traveling on his way back to the laout

551
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:10.239
But that doesn't necessarily have to be
his two go point because San Jose is

552
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.679
also having some killings around this particular
point in time, and we know that

553
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.679
Jack has his brother and his mother
and father had or mother and stepfather had

554
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:22.000
lived in San Jose, but that
his brother was still living in San Jose,

555
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:27.159
and he was really on the go
because that address letter was literally him

556
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:31.280
staking he had no address. He
was mobile in a makeshift home out of

557
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:35.119
a bus, and he was driving
that bus around where he was. But

558
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:42.880
he also had his own vehicle at
the same time. So basically, what's

559
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.800
that? Oh? Is that nice? I don't know? Okay, never

560
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:54.280
mind sounded like somebody's emails or something. Populating evidence from the crime scene.

561
00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:00.239
We also have the wing lockers shoe
in print that shows up. It's at

562
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:01.960
the first time that this has been
found at a crime scene. This is

563
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.440
actually I believe at least the second. The plastic clothesline that was used to

564
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.559
bind the victims is up here in
the right hand corner and labeled for evidence.

565
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:16.840
They indicate ten to a ten and
a half. Wingwalker Military Boot Air

566
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:22.400
Force was one of the militaries that
received this particular boot. I had handwriting

567
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.360
on the card door, but we
haven't gotten to that yet. I moved

568
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.519
that picture and not the words,
but basically just giving you kind of an

569
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:34.480
idea. I went and I tried
to do some self measurements here to see

570
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.159
if I could come up with an
actual size. And it was interesting to

571
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.159
note that some people say at ten, some people say at ten and a

572
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:44.960
half. We know that Jack was
a ten and a half, and so

573
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.960
it wasn't so much that I was
doing this to just instill that Jack is

574
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.199
the suspect, as much as I
wanted to show the difference between a size

575
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:57.360
ten and a size ten and a
half. And I found that it was

576
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:01.639
literally only an eighth of an inch
different in actual foot size. But you

577
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:06.840
have to take into consideration that just
because somebody might be a size ten,

578
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.360
they may have whider feet and have
purchased that shoe in a ten and a

579
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:15.079
half because they needed that a little
bit of extra room around the front end

580
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:21.400
of the foot. Yes, I
mean you mean John Walker turns Junior war

581
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:29.400
Walker wing Walker. Oh, I
bet he would. Yeah, he reveled

582
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:35.119
in that name Walker. Nolan.
No more about this than maybe that name

583
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:39.119
Walker comes up as kind of insidious
in the Bush family tree. But we

584
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:44.079
can go go into that later if
you want. Yeah, yeah, let's

585
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:49.039
see to this one. So basically
what I did is I took their So

586
00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:58.400
what's that w W W Walker?
Well, I believe that. I believe

587
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:01.639
that the zodiac in is and letters
called out the bushes, so it makes

588
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:07.239
sense it's right there. So basically
I took I took the measuring tape that

589
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.960
they used on the shoe for the
width, and I obviously then just turned

590
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:15.159
that bad boy sideways and ran it
up and down the length of the sole

591
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:19.559
of the shoe, and I found
that it was just under twelve and a

592
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:25.119
half inches, So ride it about
twelve point three seven five is literally what

593
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:30.000
the measuring tape came up to.
You can see where the lines up to

594
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.599
the edge of the heel down to
the tip of the toe. And when

595
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.920
I'm worked out the simple math on
that. Obviously, I just took some

596
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:42.000
random boots and I measured the random
boots of a size nine shoe, and

597
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:49.119
that size nine shoe yielded a twelve
inch twelve inch soul, so basically an

598
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.679
extra inch and a half for three
quarters maybe on the back three quarters on

599
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:59.360
the front end of extra length on
that particular shoe, because the size of

600
00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:02.000
the foot is on the inside,
not on the outside of the overall shoe.

601
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:07.920
So taking that information, I removed
the one and a half inches,

602
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.880
or I added, should I say
one and a half inches both to a

603
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.760
size ten and both to a size
ten and a half, And lo and

604
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.039
behold the ten and a half Adding
that one and a half inch came up

605
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:22.559
to twelve point three seven five,
which is exactly what is marked on that

606
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:25.320
measuring tape right there. So I'm
going with this is more likely a ten

607
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:30.760
and a half size shoe based on
the sole length itself. I have a

608
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:35.480
question for you, did now he
was he known to wear wing your walkers

609
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.840
all the time or you just put
him on when he went to do his

610
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:42.199
crimes. I think well, he
said he says that he doesn't ever look

611
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.559
normally like he does when he commits
his crimes, and in dB Cooper he

612
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:53.119
talks about using makeup a to pay
like he's literally cia adept in in changing

613
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:58.480
his appearance and looking like somebody completely
different. So would I would tend to

614
00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:02.519
think that he reserved those boots from
his military time and was literally only using

615
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:08.000
them during crimes. I think also
to be fair, Uh, what's his

616
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:13.199
name, Arthur Lee Allen was known
to wear wing walkers as well. Well,

617
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:15.239
that's probably one of the reasons,
but he also flew. I was

618
00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:20.000
under the impression that he was also
a pilot, so it would make sense

619
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:23.159
that he had them, and they
both I believe had access to the PX

620
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.639
or b X whatever they call the
store of the military. I mean really

621
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:32.639
well built boots too, you know. Yeah, And I think Dennis made

622
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:39.480
reference to to Lee Allen uh in
regard to the Berryessa. Yes. Yes,

623
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:44.639
And as a matter of fact,
um, when when when Arthur Lee

624
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:49.800
Allen came up as a suspect on
the news for the Lake Barryessa attacks,

625
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:55.639
Um Jack saw Arthur Lee Allen's face
on the TV and he mentioned out loud

626
00:47:55.719 --> 00:48:01.599
that I that nice guy gave me
a ride home from the lake. So

627
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:08.000
he literally even put Arthur Leallen in
the vicinity. But there was also this

628
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:12.519
talk, because you've got to remember
we're about two years from dB Cooper,

629
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.280
there was also this talk that Jack
was taking flying lessons from a friend.

630
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:20.840
So I started to heavily wonder if
the fact that he had given him that

631
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.679
ride home from Lake Berriessa, he
was also a pilot, had access to

632
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:29.079
a plane. Jack is taking flying
lessons. Jack is then jumping out of

633
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.320
a plane in the middle of a
two hundred thousand dollars heist, and then

634
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:36.280
he makes Arthur Leallen, the very
person who's helping him, the patsy for

635
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:38.679
the entire thing. Well, I'm
gonna have to end it on the hind,

636
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.480
oh right, it it all just
wraps itself around in one neat little

637
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.559
ball. We're going to end it
here with the shoe sizes. I got

638
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:50.480
just less than a minute. If
there's anything else either of you would like

639
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.199
to add, well, it's obvious
that aerial views are if from my experience

640
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.519
of studying this stuff, that yeah, this guy had aerial views of a

641
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.360
lot of stuff, which we haven't
got time to explain right now. But

642
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:05.119
you were saying, how many you
know this is here and it's this shape,

643
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:08.320
and but the aerial views start telling
you something about the crime locations that

644
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:13.800
you know, whether it be a
round in the snow for Donald Lass was

645
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.880
it or right? I mean yeah, and then you'll see it'll come in

646
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.960
with the Ramsey murder too. So
yeah, he could spot things out of

647
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:29.239
the sky. Yeah, how about
you knowing anything else to add? I'm

648
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.639
good, awesome you guys, well, thank you so much. This was

649
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:35.840
a blast. Um. We will
be back next week to finish off the

650
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:38.480
lake Bury and murders. Everybody have
a wonderful weekend and thank you guys for

651
00:49:38.559 --> 00:50:00.440
being here. You do, thank
you all right, right, you feel

652
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:00.480
like the fell lo