My Experiences with the Zodiac Killer Case, Part 2

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0:52 Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac. I'd like to welcome to the show today. Nolan del Campo. Good morning everybody. Good morning. Any exciting cases this last week. Oh, I got about three new ones. Yes, I got a crazy week. He does, like the second time I've heard that today. It has been a crazy week. I'm getting ready to paint the house tomorrow. On the outside. I finished the inside. I've been just completely working full on. And then I took in a probably one of the biggest cases of my career. I would assume, Wow, we're looking at hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases of embezzlement in the tune of over six million dollars. So it's it's going to be insane. They want to bring me in to and stay locally wherever they're going to put me up at so that I can go into their office and go through all their case files. I was kind of bleary eyed and a little bit mind spun, just sitting around exhausted, literally looking yeah, I can't really discuss all of that just yet. Obviously it's yeah, I'll leave that one to the side, but it's definitely going to be very interesting, and I'm just going to have to weave

2:22 everything else that I have to do for other clients in between it. But I feel like it's going to be he asked. The attorney made a comment about how this was going to be my retirement case. Well, how good? My thought was, how good are you going to pay me to do it? I don't see retirement in my future, at least not my near future. So we were back last week talking about what happened or how I entered the case, some of the things that I've experienced, the things that really throw up some red flags that make you wonder what the heck is going on? Right? I mean, I'm being told no, don't look at it, yes, look at it. No, I'm not right I'm in over my head, like I was so confused in the beginning of working with Dennis Kaufman on this stuff. I know that we left off at the January two thousand and nine, which is when I was contacted by Dennis. We talked about him being in the hospital, me needing handwriting, so I reached out to my mentor, who then provided me with well, I think it was. I don't know. If I was going to ask for a sample of handwriting, I'd want it to be something I thought was more natural, But instead what I got was the Malvin Belly letter, which not only was it the most highly disguised handwriting of all the zodiac letters, but it was also manipulated before being put up on Tom Voyd's site. I don't know

3:52 at what point it was manipulated. Dennis believed the images all looked a little bit different back in two thousand and one. I did a deep dive trying to find anybody that I could that had stored or saved or researched these particular communications. So of course I also have different versions of them as we go through. Makes me wonder how much manipulation has actually occurred to these letters. But some of the people that we dealt with throughout the case was like Deborah Perez. We talked about her. Now one year she's claiming to be the love child of JFK and Marilyn Monroe, and then the following year she is supposedly the daughter of the Zodiac Killer. These are the type of people. Good morning, lindsay, hello, welcome to the show. Are all missed? Pretty face? We're doing good?

4:45 Can't explain busy, tired, all of the things. So yeah, Deborah Perez was a huge joke on the system, but San Francisco pet paid attention to her, a a disbard all the media, disbarred partner of the Melvin Belli group, and E Fly Bailey was there representing her as her pr person. Of course, my mentor, Bart Baggett, was the one that was going to be writing a book and doing a documentary on her. Now, of course all we have is hearsay on that, because he told me that specifically over the phone. But those things never occurred, and likely because I had come out with my opinion. Now you have to understand when I sent my work to Bart, because I wasn an apprenticed at that time. It didn't require his opinion, but I didn't know that. I just wanted I wanted him to see what I saw and give me either good instruction or tell me what to do.

5:41 And literally he did not at first want me to release my opinion that there were some rents made. He then came back and stated that Dennis didn't fit the criteria of the contract that I had with Bart Baggett because he did not pay me, so I was not obligated to render Bart's opinion. But Bart came back and told me without even looking at my work, so I didn't even get an opportunity to discuss as So when we're given cases as apprentice, we get a chance to discuss our findings with our mentor and to determine whether or not we found everything we should have found, if we missed anything, if we were wrong about something, if we were looking at something the wrong way, like you have these discussions over it, and that happens with every case that they provide you in training and every case that you take as an apprentice. Because you're basically financially obligated to the school, you're paying anywhere from fifty percent.

6:35 I want to say it was even as high as seventy five percent at one point in time of your fees to your mentor, because they're ultimately the ones that are supposed to go over your work and then let you know what opinion you're supposed to deliver, and that obviously did not happen in this particular case, probably number one because there was no money in it for him. But at the same time he had he had other motives for not looking at my work or discussing it with me. He just flat out said, no, no, it's too big of writing. Well, that's one of the alterations that was done to the letter that he happened to have sent me. I was in math class in college, so everybody has to keep in mind I had recently gone back to college in two thousand and eight for a legal assisting degree. I figured I was going to become an attorney. Could you see that, Nolan? I know how to argue, that's for sure, but no, it's not the area I want to be found your niche? What's that you found your niche? Yeah? Yeah, I didn't need to be in contempt every other week and being thrown in jail because there's just so much nepotism and injustice that occurs in the courtroom.

7:49 And when I had a terrible decision come out Monday from h on Auburn. Terrible. I'm going to Auburn on the eighteenth. I have court trial for a case there Auburn. There's an Auburn in California. Yeah, it's a county seat in Plaza County. Yeah, we have Auburn here too. It's a beautiful Yes. I did the I did the walk. They do a Halloween walk of Auburn to discuss the people that used there's so much crime. In the case.

8:30 Yes, in the history of Auburn. I was like absolutely blown away. But it makes for a great spooky, haunted walk. And and you know I'm gonna have to look into that. Yeah, you have got I didn't even know California. Wow. Oh they played they played it out so like they literally they'll walk you to the old fire station and they had the whole story about the madam who had a brothel and she gave the money to the fire department to build their building. And but you know she's dressed she's dressed in ghost attire basically because she's now dead, right, but telling her story of being a citizen of Auburn back in those days. It was super cool. I thoroughly enjoyed it. So they played the entire thing out and acted the entire thing out at several different locations, and you just walk from one to the next and you got your little show. It was absolutely phenomenon. Anyways, Hi, digress, we're back to what we were talking about here. So, yes, I was in school re educating. Actually, you know, I kept getting hit in court with this you need a bachelor's degree, even though I'm coming up against people with bachelor's degrees in art or in a foreign language or whatever it hits. It was ridiculous and had nothing to do with the field. So I was literally just wanted them to stop talking about not having a bachelor's degree, even though as of today, I still don't have one.

9:54 I have two AA degrees, which is basically the same amount of schooling as a BA. Some judges have looked at it that way, and you're not really required to have any type of degrees as an expert as long as you're an expert in the field that you're in. So I'm in my math class and I get a call from another mentor from the school, Bob Byer. He is calling me because he says that I needed a second opinion on the zodiac stuff. I didn't ask for a second opinion. I didn't send anything to him. I'm now confused because I didn't ask you, Bob Byer, to peer review my work. We spent about fifteen twenty minutes on the phone where he just kept trying to convince me that I was wrong, that I didn't know what I was talking about, or Jack wasn't the one, and that Bart was right, and that I needed to basically walk away from this case, which I thought was that's a deep dive, right, I mean, you're instigating somebody, yeah, to facilitate whatever your agenda is. And so into the conversation I find out he didn't even open my work either.

11:02 He said he couldn't do yeah, And because I just kept drilling him, I wasn't letting it go. I'm like, did you look at the characteristics? I mean, I clearly mapped it all out. And then I finally got him to admit that he couldn't He for whatever reason, couldn't open the seat the DVD that the work was on. I don't think he ever had it. I don't think Bart ever sent it to him. I think he was just exactly because Bart told him. That's mean. Yeah, well, that's what I'm trying to stay here. Like people don't seem to understand when Bart tells me, I'm in over my head. What I don't understand is that there's some type of conspiracy going on with almost everybody who's involved with these cases. So I end up telling Bob Buyer off. And I don't think I ever really spoke to him again or requested anything from that man ever again, because how dare you call me and tell me I'm wrong when you haven't even looked at the work.

11:57 That's not what a mentor does. A mentor goes over that work with you. And now twice I've had two mentors from the same school who have totally sloughed it off and never looked at the work. And I found out at a much later date after the administrator. Administrator of the school was involved with Bart for many years and then they broke up, and they broke up after he and her moved here to California. I think to do this documentary in this this book deal with Debora Perez but they ended up breaking up, and I ended up housing her mother at one point because she was traveling from somewhere a way up north to LA to help her daughter move, and she stopped in and rested at my house for a bit before she traveled on back down. And during that interaction with the administrator, she had indicated to me that Bart never opened up my work either, So I was the first I knew he hadn't, right.

12:49 I mean, my gut told me, you're not looking at what I'm showing you. But I got my confirmation that he hadn't actually opened up my work. So we then went on. So they're going out of the way to try and stifle you. Well. I received threats, I received alter letters. I received two bad opinions from two mentors. I mean, yeah, I'd say that's pretty pretty sufficient to claim that there's something going on here. And the only thing I know is is that Bart is wrapped up with this hollyweird stuff, you know, So this leads me right back to where we've been looking this entire time, I feel like. So then we went to the FBI, So of course Dennis wanted me to give the opinion to Chris Hopkins and Ken Hitmeyer.

13:42 We did. I did spend about two and a half three hours giving this presentation. But when I first walked in, Chris Hopkins really just wanted a file folder from me and us to go away, even though he seemed to be extremely cordial and very personable with Dennis. I explained to him that I brought a laptop. It's on my laptop. I have to walk you through it. You're not going to know what I mean or what I'm saying based on me just delivering you a paper version of it. Nobody ever does so. The first half an hour forty five minutes with Chris Hopkins, he was answering his phone, he was taking messages, he was looking at text messages. I was getting extremely perturbed. I'm a professional, not being paid, came in here to deliver evidence to you, and you're treating me like I am some person you can just yeah, yeah, yeah, you weren't paying attention. Clearly your part wasn't in it.

14:31 About thirty minutes into it, I must have said something that literally snapped him into play. He shut that phone off. It never rang again. He closed it and put it away, and then for the next two and a half hours allowed me to completely use his attention one hundred percent while I was giving that presentation that subsequently turned into an additional three presentations, and one of them he specifically said, I think it was the linguistics, the linguistics, spelling your the things that were similar with Jack. He had indicated that there was not enough resources within the FBI to do this work, that the only one that would would be me, And of course I'm not getting paid for it.

15:12 Why am I doing your guys' job. I did what I needed to do. I assessed the handwriting. I think that Dennis is on the right track. Here's what I have run with it. Well, we know four years later they did indicate that they were going to close the case on Jack Terrence. I don't know if they were just again looking to just shut cases down, but they attempted to close the Anthrax on Bruce Evans at the same time. So it kind of gave me a sense or a feeling that they were looking to close the Zodiac case on somebody who wasn't alive during Anthrax, and thus they needed to close the Anthrax case on somebody who was dead first. But that was just again a gut feeling. As for the Deba Perez stuff, we did handwriting for Janie Henson, which is guy Ward Hendrickson's daughter.

16:02 The person that Deborah Perez was claiming was her father, he is not. She was adopted, so there was no genetic predisposition. As discussed by Bart. We saw Deborah pof back into the ether within a year. We've talked about Harry Phillips and their assessment of the DNA on the twenty on twenty episode in which case Jack's they had Jacks DNA at this time, but it was not ran and it was not included in this episode, And Harry Phillips said, that's because we knew the other eight people weren't the zodiac. So what do you know that you're not telling me? I think these people, I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I feel like these people are completely on the end with some of this stuff.

16:45 You know, media is the only one that gets to go in and talk to a prisoner in prison. I mean, Nolan and I just kind of are going through this right now. They won't allow us to do a live interview and record Mister Peter Wilson in regards to elful debt, yeah, wrongful murder conviction. So it says specifically, we're not allowed to bring in any recording devices unless we are the basically the news media, so not even just being a podcaster, you're not media. So only they so you. And then dragging their their heels as far as allowing access too. I've been in touch with them multiple times and they're not getting.

17:30 Back to me exactly. Yeah, so we're having a complication tightly. Odd because. That's really odd. If he were actually just incarcerated, not like in a mental or I don't know where he is, but I can just show up and they have to let me see him being a lawyer. Yeah, and see, and that's what's strange. So we filled out the saying is you keep cutting out, Lindsey, you keep starting we can intermittently, which is weird. Right again, lindsay, yeah, okay, what about now? Yes, yeah, the second Charlie Kirk case and.

18:21 You keep cutting it in and out. I don't know what's taking Lundy. Maybe try going out and coming back in. Yeah, So anyways, yeah, oh no, now we hear you. No, now we hear you. We'll get it back. So anyway, let's keep it moving. Yeah, all right, so basically doing the handwriting that excluded guy Ward Hendrickson. We did another episode on CBS thirteen for that. We then went into Aphrodity Jones, which I believe we talked about last week. Her f BI sources indicated that the handwriting was a match between Jack W.

19:04 Terrence Junior and the Zodiac writings, Mitzi Roberts and the LAPD. We took information to them again. The Captain sat there on the edge of his seat, licking his lips, totally into the presentation I was given, but then ordered Mitsi Roberts to leave it alone. Yeah. Yeah. Then we found out the NAPA shares well, they went, nope, you're not doing anything with this. We also took it to the NAPA Sheriff's Department and NAPA PD. This was a singular visit with both agencies after they had received a government grant to work on cold cases. When we got there, they indicated that they did not have sufficient resources from this grant in order to revisit the Zodiac case, which I thought was pure crap because I'm bringing you evidence, clear evidence that you can oh, we have more evidence in other cases. They say that if you had more evidence in other cases, they'd be solved already. You douche.

19:58 Oh I said that. That made me mad? Did you cry? Uh? We did? Oh? No? Did I did something else for Bileo? No? No, I don't think that we ever attempted to go in there. But yeah, they so, they indicated they didn't have the resources, but they had better evidence in other cases. Well here, I'm walking evidence right through your door. But I don't even begin to understand what the difficulty here is. So that was the response from them. I also did a forty hour rigology class in order to identify fingerprints with the NAPA Sheriff's Department, and I was there for a week.

20:43 I had reached out to the cold case detective. He kind of shunned me and put me off. The gal who headed the event for it was Ron Smith and Associates, which teaches and trains in these different fields, including rigolo, but they also do blood splatter and gunshots I'm sorry, bullets and all kinds of different forensic techniques. They go around and train people all over the United States, maybe even out of the country. But the gal Briam Breedlove, who was a fingerprint analyst for the Sheriff's department there in NAPA, had intimated that she could possibly if we could get the cold case detective to release the prints on the Zodiac case, we could at least an attempt to run the right fingerprint that I have right thumb print, sorry, that I have from Jack Terrence and his military records.

21:39 But she couldn't get him to budge and do anything for us either, So literally being cut off from withinside the joint for a second time. So yay, NAPA, and that's where I'm from. I'm pissy. Let's see. I reached out to Bruce Ivans in these cases just to discuss but I didn't know he was dead at the time. That letter somehow made it into the hands of the New York Police Department. I received a phone call from a not so nice detective out of the police department threatening that I should not be attempting to contact scientists.

22:20 That was much mattered, Yes, what what what. Is? I wasn't threatening nobody. I wasn't like, you know, asking for secrets. I wasn't. I was literally reaching out to say, hey, I think you're innocent, and I have a handwriting that matches this I'd like to know more about the greeting card you received kind of thing. And of course I got that threatening phone call and I thought, I mean, it shook me up a bit, obviously, when a police officer calls you and tells you to stop doing something. I was like, it's and I asked my questions. You know me, I'm stubborn. I'm like, it's illegal to contact a scientist. I don't I don't understand at length what y.

23:05 Yeah, well, and they should be mal that's a federal offense. And why did it go to them. Now never intercepting it. Well, then that's just another oddity in this whole thing, I mean honestly. Also, it was a phone called, so you don't have no proof of who this actually could have been. It could have been FDI, could have. Been well, I mean yeah, other than him identifying himself. And I'm sure he identified himself with his name and may or may not have it somewhere, and that I might. Actually I did notice that I have some information in here from back in that day as to responses from these different agencies We're going to go over as well.

23:50 But I just want to say that he really just kind of asserted. He's asserted as and and you're right, I don't know, it could be any of those agencies. Lindsay, do you do you not sound a girl? Ah? Yeah? Can you hear me now? I can hear you now? So what were you trained to say? I was just gonna say, that's really weird that they wouldn't. You're having a hard time interviewing him, because in the Charlie Kirk case, there's another citizen journalist that was able to interview one of the patsies that claimed that he was the shooter on nine to ten and then was later charged with child pornography. Ironically, as they all do, you know, as we know we've seen that pattern of them charging them with that and the phone. But he was able to get two interviews with him. So that's really weird and like and that's like a very high scale, you know case. So for you guys to not be able to get, you know, an interview with a with an inmate like that, that's really weird.

24:52 There's something along with that. And so I applied first and got approval. Then we sent in Nolan's application, which should have just gotten an easy and simple approval. Peter Wilson indicated that he wanted to be able to be interviewed because Nolan would be his attorney, which I think was kind of a misstep on his part because Nolan was coming in to assess what was going on with the case. He hadn't agreed to take the case, so that threw a wrench into it. And now all of a sudden, this other entity reaches out. So it's HCF of Stockton, which is a mental health facility for inmates. So they reach out to Nolan via an email telling him he needs to complete this other stuff. Nolan does it, and now can't get anybody on the phone, right, can't get anybody on behind it to answer.

25:38 Email address, and I sent numerous emails and they're not responding. Right. Jump through every they asked me to jump through, and I mean the application speaks for itself. It's pretty detailed. You helped me get it. Yeah, no, And it should have just been a simple approval so that Nolan and I can set up a time and go in and sit down that you're Wilson. Escape bars, that my license is good and then get back to me. Let's schedule a term dating. Dad and I don't understand, and I don't understand. I mean, I think that this facility, facility will actually allow us to be in the same room with him versus on the other side of a window. But what why why are we prevented from recording any part of the conversation or interview that we're having.

26:26 I've been countered resistance like this several different prisons as well. BACKA Bill is the worst. I used to do role hearings for life criminals and Backer Bill. They treat you like a criminal because they figure you're on the criminal side because you're the lawyer. Yeah, yeah, we would even let you do audio. They're they're like this, they're not allowing audio. They say, I can record him if he calls me, So he's welcome to call me and I can record him that way. But and maybe maybe I have to do that. Figure out how it is that he has to call me, right, I don't know. Us we'll remember what he says.

27:10 Right, But it's just so much stronger when it comes out of their mouth. Right, It's not just us saying something, it's like coming from that person. And and I don't know, we've got to get that figured out. I got that on the list. How I definitely did the call and then start from there and then like, because you know, that's what this other journalist was able to do. They were able to talk to him on the phone, right, Yeah. They just have to be able to have the time and make that phone call. So so back to this one sad badge, he comes in, he drops off the cheese letter which refers to Monticello, and we talked about Monticello Ranch. I think it was out there in the Lake Berryessa area, So there is some type of consistency with that letter, though I still don't know that that wasn't some you know, pull uh plot that that tom Boy and his trolls were attempting to pull off on Dennis and I and they had a big chuckle over it.

27:59 So I just left that one alone. We have Dave Mack. Dave Mack is the one that actually had provided me with the the Tim Miller finale letters. And of course, as Tim Miller was at my house, he had a I think he was a former head of the FBI. He was talking with in regards to the possibility that Jack Terrence being the Zodiac could also have been the I forty five killer and they fed the the email and the you are at the IP address that I had for Dave Mack to that guy. That guy supposedly attempted to look him up and could not find him, so that was interesting. We talked about D'Antonio, who was a big oliphan although he was quite harassing in itself, just like Tom Voyd. Jake Wark's another one of those trolls that likes to harass and beat people's personalities up if you will. I mean, he like literally went in posted on a blog for Christina Klow, who's working on these Son of Sam letters. Then I'm a drug addict, which I can let that one go a little bit.

29:06 I mean, haha, I know the truth, and I'm usually that type of person. You don't know what I do, so make all the accusations you want. But he put it in typeprint on a blog. He has since removed it. What's that? So you learned? Aid work with this person that's working on the set of Sam stuff. She did indicate that they were looking at doing a documentary and she asked me if I would be interested in participating in it, but I told her I was extremely busy right at this moment. Once this work in the house and so forth is done, then I can think about it. I still haven't done any handwriting really in that case, so I'm not sure where I could be helpful just yet in a documentary, but we'll see.

29:48 So let's see. We had Harriet Soouchet, who came in with all the codes, and of course she believes her father was killed by anthrax in nineteen ninety or nineteen ninety one. He basically bled out at the kitchen table after receiving a package in which case some type of powder flew all over the place after he had opened it up. It became pretty much a cosmat scene. Her dog got sick, and she was provided cipro, which is one of the common medications given to prevent anthrax in humans from killing humans. So it was interesting to note that as early as nineteen ninety ninety one cipro was being handed out. We know that they started cataloging anthrax in nineteen ninety three, so it makes sense that they started, you know, building some type of protection or an antibiotic I guess if you will, for that particular disease. I'm sorry chemical. Let's see now. Of course, she did a lot on the codes and some of the things that she actually found out was interesting. She also had a computer that Dennis and I attempted to pick up from her.

30:59 It was the first time we ever met her in person. That is, she was on Dennis's message board having some of the same issues with Voight and Crew. But she had a computer that was from back in two thousand and one with all the original images on it. We couldn't get or pull anything off of it. It unfortunately had fried and probably had been delivered some type of a virus, as we see with many of these websites. In fact, if you were to go to my message board, the likelihood is is that once you typed in that URL, you're going to actually get a message that says that it is not a safe site. And I think that they have triggered this on purpose so that people think that this site has a virus, which it doesn't. I've never installed any virus, not in anything. So if there's an image on there that I pulled off the internet, that may have a virus that came from the people who put it online, not me. And I've not had anybody complain that their computer had shut down or gone bad because they had been at my site. But it is a common message. People tell me that they get Tim Miller and Steph Watts coming out in regards to the finale letter. We saw all kinds of movement in the case, but Tim Miller still had his favorite suspect.

32:12 Later on he sent out his private investigator, Bill Young, who had me do the handwriting for Clyde Hedrick, which I determined was not amounched to the Zodiac writing, albeit he I don't even think he could have been out here during the timeframe that was necessary, because if he's back in Texas and you have no evidence that supports he was in California, I think it was more or less their attempts to force fit Clyde Hedrick into the Zodiac box when it's just quite the opposite. Hendrick is probably not the killer of his thought, and I'm gonna say probably not, But we do believe that there are other people that are involved, and there's a possibility that the Zodiac was writing for a group of people in regards to some of these crimes. And see I've received internet harassment, I've received trolls. I have people that are still call me today asking me to look at their suspects handwriting. Just as recently as this last week, I received a phone call from another individual who wanted me to look at the handwriting of someone she believed could have been the Zodiac, but then it indicated he wasn't born until nineteen forty six. Well, that would have made him like in his early twenties and not necessarily something that we would expect to see for the timeframe. So there's just a lot that you end up going through when you're in these cases. You're being denied access to law enforcement who refuses to investigate. You've got people coming out trying to diminish your character or even ruin your reputation.

33:46 Let's not forget that. I also suffered almost a complete business shut down after I released my opinion against Bart's wishes, and that was because he and some of the other students I get or apprentice they might have already become document examiners. He had gotten them to do kind of a media war against me in advertising in my area, which they undercut my prices and cost caused the pay per clicks on Google to go up exponentially. It was absolutely insane. I was seeing pay per clicks for seventeen dollars for one click. Nolan, Wow, yeah, it used.

34:29 That is crazy. It had been anywhere from a dollar thirty to you know, two dollars and seventy cents and then what it's This is why I quit using Google pay per click because they turn it into a all out bidding war basically. And I watched the price of a pay per click go from a buck fifty to seventeen dollars per click because they were advertising in my area. Now it's going to be who wants it, who will pay more for that click? So I was suffering some into the tune of one thousand dollars a month in paper clicks, but I'm not getting any business because they've advertised to undercut my feets. It was absolutely insane that I thought I was going to start to death for about three months until everything kind of rectified and cleared itself out. And again I didn't even find out that that war had been waged on me until twenty twenty one when one of the people who participated in it admitted to it.

35:23 And go figure, they're a president of a forensic society I was a member of and Europe. It just It blows my mind that anybody could do this to anybody in our industry, let alone somebody who is running a forensic society. Really yeah, all right, So, and all the while and the harassment, the lack of teamwork from void, wortd' antonio, Sad Badge, many others have caused a divide, just like law enforcement. So no soul is going to be insight unless people start getting on board and telling the truth. I'm here. Here is the actual email address, davemackfive at gmail dot com. My knowledge so this is November twentieth of two thousand and nine, he contacts me.

36:10 My belief at the time is ex LAPD Dave Mack. He's a police officer. Again his IPS address, I'm pretty sure he's the one that led the way for the Tim Miller letter and then he just absolutely disappeared. So he basically dropped off the URLs to I want to say it was photobucket or no sorry, uh no, it wasn't photobucket, so I'll find it. But he led the way to that, so that I found both of the actual versions, the handwritten version and of the cutout version, which again Tim Miller had never seen the handwritten version, so very interesting. The letter goes missing in less than a year of him turning it over to the League City Police Department, and then it ends up on the internet in two different versions, and he hadn't seen so leading back to that whole media stuff, we can see here we've got barred up here with Larry King, which is one of his big to dos. He seems to be quite like these other individuals that are kind of media hogs seen a Wong Michelle Dredsboul. There are people in this industry that really tout I mean, Patricia Fisher.

37:22 These people will actually put their media references on their websites as if being in the media gives them some type of credibility. Yeah. Well, we've seen over the years how many cases were covered on Larry King. I mean, come on, almost all of them. He gets everything right. Yeah, And you know, I started contemplating yesterday in a conversation with a friend about how and I know this I might get some feedback, but maybe even negative feedback, I don't know, But how I felt that COVID was the modern day Holocaust, right, meant to help those prosper while population control takes place and small businesses get put out. I mean, like literally, I don't know how many small businesses during COVID went out of business, but who rose up? Amazon delivery companies, online companies. People that already had the money have now taken over the small person's business, which is kind of disgusting either way.

38:32 So we did see here at one point in time, did the movie get it wrong? What do you think of the two thousand and nine confession of Debora Perez? So this was actually on his website at one point, and that just kind of blows my mind because we know in the long run that she was just a giant fraud. And I'm pretty sure that I found the actual blogs in which she was discussing she was the love child of JFK and Marilyn Monroe. So it's just another I don't know. So California says father father was Zodiac killer and she played a role, and this is says mister McLean said that miss Perez had past psychological exams and that her handwriting claims have been confirmed by Bart Baggett, an expert document examiner from Los Angeles. What do we think of that?

39:18 Wow? You know, so basically he put he got in the league with Deborah Perez and she was a fraud. That kind of makes him a fraud too. Yeah. Well, and I had and well, and I meanutation well, I mean he's backed off of it obviously since then, you know, claiming that there was no affiliation. But I took a lot of this stuff early on. And again, he had the conversation with me that he was going to write a book and do a documentary on somebody he believes was legitimately the daughter of the Zodiac Killer and that she had the hood and she had Paul Stein's glasses and his keys and these things that she never never actually even had. And again and she wasn't related to this person, so that she was claiming. So the whole thing was a farce. And you're right, it should hurt your opinion. But I hear these days he's charging three thousand dollars to do a case. It's all about the money in the end. And he actually sent me off all the way to South Carolina to trial in a case. I declared the signature to be a valid signature, and because I couldn't release my opinion as an apprentice, I had to release his, which then told my clients that it was a forgery. I even tried to protect my clients before having them engage me to go to trial and tell them that all I have to do is see one time your dad did this, and this is going to be a legitimate signature. I need you to understand. I feel like this is a legitimate signature. But their dad had done something so drastically

40:49 different in his signature while he was married to a very fraudulent person for thirty years and very upset about it, but he was a good Christian man that was not going to get a divorce lost all night teen acres and houses on a lake to this woman who presented a will from nineteen seventy six, even though there was evidence including the minister of this man stating that he had been working on a new will that was going to exclude this woman as an heir. And so I get there, and of course I see things like bailout paperwork for his son where he is signed using the exact same signature that they didn't recognize as being his.

41:32 So he briefly made a change for thirty years and the way he did his signature, and he actually would wrap his first capital letter with a circle, which is a sign of trying to protect himself. He changed that and on his deathbed went back to his normal signature that the daughters knew in that a trip. Yeah, psychologically speaking, right, Yeah, he's wrapped up in something fraudulent and ikey and he doesn't like it, and he's trying to protect himself for thirty years. And then when he's being set free, basically dying, does he go back to his normal handwriting. So bottom line was I got there. I get to see that he has definitely used this signature for the last thirty years.

42:13 And my clients have just paid an excess of five grand for me to go to South Carolina. And guess who got half that money? Tod Boy hm hmm, I your maggot. Yeah, you're making the one who told me that it was a forgery. I did not want to render that opinion, but I had. So wrong about everything he got. I can't believe he still makes money. Because you only had. It never matters unless you're impeached in court. Most of the cases you don't come up against another documentary examiner. So how often do you really have to fight for your food? You don't. But if you declare everything a forgery or authentic in favor of your client going into courts where you make the most money.

42:59 Iey Cross exaviting him when he gave his testimony, I would impute his credibility by bringing up Deborah Parros. I know, I know, I know, you make him look real bad for. A jury or a judge or whatever. Well, it was shameful. I literally cried on the court steps in South Carolina. I mean I was. I was beyond broken to know that I was sent on a job that I knew instinctively and had told my clients that I believed that it was a legitimate signature despite that one item, and even had the wherewithal to tell them if I see another signature where he has done this, then your complaint is done. It's over. It's a legitimate signature.

43:44 And they still took me and guess what afterwards, they never talked to me again. And that's not that's not how it usually goes with my clients. I have clients that will still contact me, will keep up with me, will you know, check in on me. And again I said, ninety five to ninety six percent of my cases, I'm not trying to go to court. I mean, despite the money that's in it there, it is not a comfortable place to be. It's very stressful, and you want your client to not have to suffer those costs. Obviously not the case. Here more information as we walk up and down some of the websites was the latest movie Zodiac Links Stark, stars Jake Gillenhall, Mark Ruffalo, and Anthony Edwards.

44:28 In the movie, the author suggests the killers are d Lee Allen, Who's handwriting We do have a copy on this site. However, Bart Baggett contradicts this theory during the America's Most Wanted episode air date February twenty fourth, claiming the handwriting of two suspects in the movie simply doesn't match, leave me more questions as to who the real killer is. Update in two thousand and nine, Bart still has not identified the Zodiac killer's handwriting and found it to be inconclusive when new suspect guy Ward Hendrickson The New York Times did not accurately quote Baggott's p Theleminary qualified findings regarding the handwriting of Deborah Press, Are you eving kidding me? Like? Now, let's put on it so this is where he's retracting it on his website. We just got done. Did the movie get it wrong? What do you think of? Why are we asking the public what we think of Deborah Perez's handwriting? If you don't believe that she is, to turn around and say that you were misquoted and that he's not made an identification, I don't know. However, Bart Bagett contradicts this theory during the America's Most Wanted Episode air date, claiming that the handwriting Oh okay, no, I already read that. That's just a second spot on there.

45:39 But we do get to see. Like I said, in my opinion, the zodiac writings don't match checks written by Arthur Lee. Allen and the document examiner in the seventies agree, even as poorly written custody writing doesn't match. What about Lawrence Kaine's writing from the police files under questioning fake writing? See it here? So again, just he's talking about more of the false suspects while promoting a false suspect, And for me, it just doesn't work. I've stayed strong, I've stayed true to the handwriting examination that I've done. I've not flip flopped back and forth. I have shown the evidence. I've put it out there for peer review. Nobody has seemed to be willing to stand up and go against me toe to toe to talk about these actual characteristics, and that to me speaks volumes. I've been doing this forere gosh, seventeen years. Not one person has come and said, Tonette, let's talk about these characteristics and how I might be wrong exactly. I don't think it will have.

46:35 Instead, they just try to silence you, you know, under the table. Oh yeah, we're gonna get to some of that too, hopefully. I mean, obviously we're gonna still be doing my story up until next week. Now it looks like because I actually have some of the things that media like the History Channel has said about Dennis and I, I have these quotes and these things that are happening. When when you people stand up and stop talking ad hominine arguments about the characters of Dennis or myself and or clumping me into what Dennis had going on, and start talking about the actual evidence, but not one will do it. I think it's kind of unfair that they're even able to write a blog on their on their History Channel website about me when you haven't even spoke to me.

47:18 Yeah, that's that's it's part of their their protocol. It's you know, you see it in a as a pattern in many, many cases of the years that I've researched. I mean, it's just continuous pattern of you know, shaming the truth or the person that's coming to you with the evidence, and instead they want to dig onto some baggage that you were associated with, or you know, that someone else had that you spoke with. Like it's always, you know, they don't want to look at what you have. They want to look over there or over here and not even pay attention to what you are coming to the puppet evidence. Yeah. Yeah. So on February nineteenth ten, a press release on the anthrax mailing said that Bruce Evans was being named the one and only suspect by the FBI with the assistance of Northern Arizona University, which I found extremely interesting because you guys, remember when I said Arizona University is the one that cataloged anthrax. Northern Arizona University is where Stephen Dewhurst came out of and walked away with many negatives and roles of film that had not been developed from Dennis Kaufman. It is also where Chris Pickele started before she came and started covering. Why did she, out of everybody, be the only one willing to take on Dennis's story? She gave him more airtime than anybody else, even if it had been cut to seconds, in order to make him look ridiculous or like a fool. There was a purpose behind that agenda. I absolutely believe that.

48:47 One week later, and a lot of these people come from that university, I've noticed. That's what I'm saying. Like that, there's to me, the connection in the pattern there with Arizona University kind of speaks some volumes right now, since we've thk going out of that area and these are the only people who are willing to pay attention to Dennis, it, yeah, it screams red flag. One week later, Congress comes out and states that they're passing a bill forcing the investigation to stay open because the handwriting, forensics, and m O does not match Ivans. I think that's about all we'll have for today. We are down to our final seconds. But when we come back, we'll continue with the additional research, investigation and work that I have presented or turned over to the agencies that should be looking at it, and how they responded to it. Thank you both, Lindsay and Nolan for being here. I hope you guys have a wonderful weekend and we'll see everyone next Friday.

49:43 Yes, all Rightody too, An you think anything