July 31, 2026

My Experiences with the Zodiac Killer Case, Part 2

My Experiences with the Zodiac Killer Case, Part 2
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Continuing this week with more on the investigation of Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. as the best suspect for the Zodiac Killer crimes and more, law enforcement involvement or lack thereof, responses from those that would like this to stay a mystery, and the evidence that has been turned over in this case against Jack. Get the full low-down on the parasites involved in a massive cover-up of epic proportions. Are these crimes properly investigated? Must someone from the Epstein files be convicted first???

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome to the show today. Nolan del Campo.

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Good morning everybody.

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Good morning. Any exciting cases this last week.

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Oh, I got about three new ones. Yes, I got

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a crazy week.

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He does, like the second time I've heard that today.

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It has been a crazy week. I'm getting ready to

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paint the house tomorrow. On the outside. I finished the inside.

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I've been just completely working full on. And then I

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took in a probably one of the biggest cases of

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my career. I would assume, Wow, we're looking at hundreds

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and hundreds and hundreds of cases of embezzlement in the

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tune of over six million dollars. So it's it's going

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to be insane. They want to bring me in to

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and stay locally wherever they're going to put me up

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at so that I can go into their office and

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go through all their case files. I was kind of

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bleary eyed and a little bit mind spun, just sitting

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around exhausted, literally looking yeah, I can't really discuss all

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of that just yet. Obviously it's yeah, I'll leave that

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one to the side, but it's definitely going to be

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very interesting, and I'm just going to have to weave

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everything else that I have to do for other clients

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in between it. But I feel like it's going to

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be he asked. The attorney made a comment about how

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this was going to be my retirement case. Well, how good?

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My thought was, how good are you going to pay

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me to do it? I don't see retirement in my future,

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at least not my near future. So we were back

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last week talking about what happened or how I entered

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the case, some of the things that I've experienced, the

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things that really throw up some red flags that make

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you wonder what the heck is going on? Right? I mean,

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I'm being told no, don't look at it, yes, look

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at it. No, I'm not right I'm in over my head,

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like I was so confused in the beginning of working

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with Dennis Kaufman on this stuff. I know that we

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left off at the January two thousand and nine, which

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is when I was contacted by Dennis. We talked about

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him being in the hospital, me needing handwriting, so I

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reached out to my mentor, who then provided me with well,

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I think it was. I don't know. If I was

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going to ask for a sample of handwriting, I'd want

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it to be something I thought was more natural, But

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instead what I got was the Malvin Belly letter, which

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not only was it the most highly disguised handwriting of

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all the zodiac letters, but it was also manipulated before

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being put up on Tom Voyd's site. I don't know

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at what point it was manipulated. Dennis believed the images

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all looked a little bit different back in two thousand

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and one. I did a deep dive trying to find

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anybody that I could that had stored or saved or

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researched these particular communications. So of course I also have

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different versions of them as we go through. Makes me

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wonder how much manipulation has actually occurred to these letters.

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But some of the people that we dealt with throughout

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the case was like Deborah Perez. We talked about her.

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Now one year she's claiming to be the love child

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of JFK and Marilyn Monroe, and then the following year

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she is supposedly the daughter of the Zodiac Killer. These

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are the type of people. Good morning, lindsay, hello, welcome

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to the show. Are all missed? Pretty face? We're doing good?

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Can't explain busy, tired, all of the things. So yeah,

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Deborah Perez was a huge joke on the system, but

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San Francisco pet paid attention to her, a a disbard

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all the media, disbarred partner of the Melvin Belli group,

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and E Fly Bailey was there representing her as her

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pr person. Of course, my mentor, Bart Baggett, was the

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one that was going to be writing a book and

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doing a documentary on her. Now, of course all we

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have is hearsay on that, because he told me that

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specifically over the phone. But those things never occurred, and

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likely because I had come out with my opinion. Now

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you have to understand when I sent my work to Bart,

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because I wasn an apprenticed at that time. It didn't

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require his opinion, but I didn't know that. I just

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wanted I wanted him to see what I saw and

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give me either good instruction or tell me what to do.

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And literally he did not at first want me to

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release my opinion that there were some rents made. He

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then came back and stated that Dennis didn't fit the

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criteria of the contract that I had with Bart Baggett

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because he did not pay me, so I was not

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obligated to render Bart's opinion. But Bart came back and

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told me without even looking at my work, so I

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didn't even get an opportunity to discuss as So when

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we're given cases as apprentice, we get a chance to

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discuss our findings with our mentor and to determine whether

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or not we found everything we should have found, if

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we missed anything, if we were wrong about something, if

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we were looking at something the wrong way, like you

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have these discussions over it, and that happens with every

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case that they provide you in training and every case

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that you take as an apprentice. Because you're basically financially

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obligated to the school, you're paying anywhere from fifty percent.

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I want to say it was even as high as

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seventy five percent at one point in time of your

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fees to your mentor, because they're ultimately the ones that

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are supposed to go over your work and then let

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you know what opinion you're supposed to deliver, and that

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obviously did not happen in this particular case, probably number

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one because there was no money in it for him.

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But at the same time he had he had other

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motives for not looking at my work or discussing it

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with me. He just flat out said, no, no, it's

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too big of writing. Well, that's one of the alterations

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that was done to the letter that he happened to

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have sent me. I was in math class in college,

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so everybody has to keep in mind I had recently

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gone back to college in two thousand and eight for

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a legal assisting degree. I figured I was going to

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become an attorney. Could you see that, Nolan? I know

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how to argue, that's for sure, but no, it's not

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the area I want to be found your niche? What's

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that you found your niche? Yeah? Yeah, I didn't need

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to be in contempt every other week and being thrown

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in jail because there's just so much nepotism and injustice

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that occurs in the courtroom.

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And when I had a terrible decision come out Monday

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from h on Auburn.

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Terrible.

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I'm going to Auburn on the eighteenth. I have court

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trial for a case there Auburn.

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There's an Auburn in California.

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Yeah, it's a county seat in Plaza County.

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Yeah, we have Auburn here too.

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It's a beautiful Yes. I did the I did the walk.

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They do a Halloween walk of Auburn to discuss the

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people that used there's so much crime.

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In the case.

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Yes, in the history of Auburn. I was like absolutely

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blown away. But it makes for a great spooky, haunted walk.

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And and you know I'm gonna have to look into that. Yeah,

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you have got I didn't even know California. Wow. Oh

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they played they played it out so like they literally

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they'll walk you to the old fire station and they

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had the whole story about the madam who had a

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brothel and she gave the money to the fire department

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to build their building. And but you know she's dressed

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she's dressed in ghost attire basically because she's now dead, right,

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but telling her story of being a citizen of Auburn

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back in those days. It was super cool. I thoroughly

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enjoyed it. So they played the entire thing out and

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acted the entire thing out at several different locations, and

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you just walk from one to the next and you

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got your little show. It was absolutely phenomenon. Anyways, Hi, digress,

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we're back to what we were talking about here. So, yes,

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I was in school re educating. Actually, you know, I

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kept getting hit in court with this you need a

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bachelor's degree, even though I'm coming up against people with

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bachelor's degrees in art or in a foreign language or

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whatever it hits. It was ridiculous and had nothing to

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do with the field. So I was literally just wanted

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them to stop talking about not having a bachelor's degree,

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even though as of today, I still don't have one.

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I have two AA degrees, which is basically the same

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amount of schooling as a BA. Some judges have looked

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at it that way, and you're not really required to

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have any type of degrees as an expert as long

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as you're an expert in the field that you're in.

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So I'm in my math class and I get a

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call from another mentor from the school, Bob Byer. He

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is calling me because he says that I needed a

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second opinion on the zodiac stuff. I didn't ask for

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a second opinion. I didn't send anything to him. I'm

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now confused because I didn't ask you, Bob Byer, to

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peer review my work. We spent about fifteen twenty minutes

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on the phone where he just kept trying to convince

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me that I was wrong, that I didn't know what

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I was talking about, or Jack wasn't the one, and

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that Bart was right, and that I needed to basically

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walk away from this case, which I thought was that's

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a deep dive, right, I mean, you're instigating somebody, yeah,

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to facilitate whatever your agenda is. And so into the

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conversation I find out he didn't even open my work either.

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He said he couldn't do yeah, And because I just

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kept drilling him, I wasn't letting it go. I'm like,

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did you look at the characteristics? I mean, I clearly

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mapped it all out. And then I finally got him

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to admit that he couldn't He for whatever reason, couldn't

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open the seat the DVD that the work was on.

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I don't think he ever had it. I don't think

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Bart ever sent it to him. I think he was

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just exactly because Bart told him.

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That's mean.

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Yeah, well, that's what I'm trying to stay here. Like

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people don't seem to understand when Bart tells me, I'm

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in over my head. What I don't understand is that

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there's some type of conspiracy going on with almost everybody

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who's involved with these cases. So I end up telling

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Bob Buyer off. And I don't think I ever really

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spoke to him again or requested anything from that man

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ever again, because how dare you call me and tell

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me I'm wrong when you haven't even looked at the work.

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That's not what a mentor does. A mentor goes over

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that work with you. And now twice I've had two

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mentors from the same school who have totally sloughed it

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off and never looked at the work. And I found

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out at a much later date after the administrator. Administrator

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of the school was involved with Bart for many years

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and then they broke up, and they broke up after

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he and her moved here to California. I think to

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do this documentary in this this book deal with Debora

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Perez but they ended up breaking up, and I ended

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up housing her mother at one point because she was

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traveling from somewhere a way up north to LA to

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help her daughter move, and she stopped in and rested

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at my house for a bit before she traveled on

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back down. And during that interaction with the administrator, she

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had indicated to me that Bart never opened up my

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work either, So I was the first I knew he hadn't, right.

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I mean, my gut told me, you're not looking at

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what I'm showing you. But I got my confirmation that

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he hadn't actually opened up my work. So we then

224
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went on.

225
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So they're going out of the way to try and

226
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stifle you. Well.

227
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I received threats, I received alter letters. I received two

228
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:14.639
bad opinions from two mentors. I mean, yeah, I'd say

229
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:18.759
that's pretty pretty sufficient to claim that there's something going

230
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.320
on here. And the only thing I know is is

231
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.440
that Bart is wrapped up with this hollyweird stuff, you know,

232
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So this leads me right back to where we've been

233
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looking this entire time, I feel like. So then we

234
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.200
went to the FBI, So of course Dennis wanted me

235
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to give the opinion to Chris Hopkins and Ken Hitmeyer.

236
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We did. I did spend about two and a half

237
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three hours giving this presentation. But when I first walked in,

238
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Chris Hopkins really just wanted a file folder from me

239
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and us to go away, even though he seemed to

240
00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.879
be extremely cordial and very personable with Dennis. I explained

241
00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.240
to him that I brought a laptop. It's on my laptop.

242
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.159
I have to walk you through it. You're not going

243
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.279
to know what I mean or what I'm saying based

244
00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:06.600
on me just delivering you a paper version of it.

245
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:11.120
Nobody ever does so. The first half an hour forty

246
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.960
five minutes with Chris Hopkins, he was answering his phone,

247
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.519
he was taking messages, he was looking at text messages.

248
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I was getting extremely perturbed. I'm a professional, not being paid,

249
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.919
came in here to deliver evidence to you, and you're

250
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.960
treating me like I am some person you can just yeah, yeah, yeah,

251
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.639
you weren't paying attention. Clearly your part wasn't in it.

252
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.639
About thirty minutes into it, I must have said something

253
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.679
that literally snapped him into play. He shut that phone off.

254
00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:40.440
It never rang again. He closed it and put it away,

255
00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:42.559
and then for the next two and a half hours

256
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.799
allowed me to completely use his attention one hundred percent

257
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:52.200
while I was giving that presentation that subsequently turned into

258
00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:57.279
an additional three presentations, and one of them he specifically said,

259
00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.960
I think it was the linguistics, the linguistics, spelling your

260
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.320
the things that were similar with Jack. He had indicated

261
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.879
that there was not enough resources within the FBI to

262
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.120
do this work, that the only one that would would

263
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:12.519
be me, And of course I'm not getting paid for it.

264
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.879
Why am I doing your guys' job. I did what

265
00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.519
I needed to do. I assessed the handwriting. I think

266
00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.639
that Dennis is on the right track. Here's what I

267
00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:25.399
have run with it. Well, we know four years later

268
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:29.200
they did indicate that they were going to close the

269
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.480
case on Jack Terrence. I don't know if they were

270
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.399
just again looking to just shut cases down, but they

271
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.320
attempted to close the Anthrax on Bruce Evans at the

272
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.200
same time. So it kind of gave me a sense

273
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.559
or a feeling that they were looking to close the

274
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.480
Zodiac case on somebody who wasn't alive during Anthrax, and

275
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thus they needed to close the Anthrax case on somebody

276
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:53.879
who was dead first. But that was just again a

277
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:58.360
gut feeling. As for the Deba Perez stuff, we did

278
00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:02.360
handwriting for Janie Henson, which is guy Ward Hendrickson's daughter.

279
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.000
The person that Deborah Perez was claiming was her father,

280
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.639
he is not. She was adopted, so there was no

281
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:13.679
genetic predisposition. As discussed by Bart. We saw Deborah pof

282
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:17.399
back into the ether within a year. We've talked about

283
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.000
Harry Phillips and their assessment of the DNA on the

284
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.759
twenty on twenty episode in which case Jack's they had

285
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:25.879
Jacks DNA at this time, but it was not ran

286
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.879
and it was not included in this episode, And Harry

287
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:31.200
Phillips said, that's because we knew the other eight people

288
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.000
weren't the zodiac. So what do you know that you're

289
00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.759
not telling me? I think these people, I don't know

290
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.080
about you guys, but sometimes I feel like these people

291
00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:45.519
are completely on the end with some of this stuff.

292
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.200
You know, media is the only one that gets to

293
00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:51.200
go in and talk to a prisoner in prison. I mean,

294
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.360
Nolan and I just kind of are going through this

295
00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:55.519
right now. They won't allow us to do a live

296
00:16:55.559 --> 00:17:01.279
interview and record Mister Peter Wilson in regards to elful debt, yeah,

297
00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:05.279
wrongful murder conviction. So it says specifically, we're not allowed

298
00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:09.519
to bring in any recording devices unless we are the

299
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.079
basically the news media, so not even just being a podcaster,

300
00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:18.079
you're not media. So only they so you.

301
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.079
And then dragging their their heels as far as allowing

302
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.960
access too. I've been in touch with them multiple times

303
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:30.440
and they're not getting.

304
00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.960
Back to me exactly. Yeah, so we're having a complication tightly.

305
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.039
Odd because.

306
00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:38.519
That's really odd.

307
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.519
If he were actually just incarcerated, not like in a

308
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.720
mental or I don't know where he is, but I

309
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:49.559
can just show up and they have to let me

310
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:50.640
see him being a lawyer.

311
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.160
Yeah, and see, and that's what's strange. So we filled

312
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:59.240
out the saying is you keep cutting out, Lindsey, you

313
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:04.920
keep starting we can intermittently, which is weird.

314
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:15.519
Right again, lindsay, yeah, okay, what about now? Yes, yeah,

315
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.319
the second Charlie Kirk case and.

316
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.680
You keep cutting it in and out. I don't know

317
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.039
what's taking Lundy.

318
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:27.240
Maybe try going out and coming back in.

319
00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:36.480
Yeah, So anyways, yeah, oh no, now we hear you. No,

320
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.559
now we hear you.

321
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.359
We'll get it back. So anyway, let's keep it moving.

322
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:50.599
Yeah, all right, so basically doing the handwriting that excluded

323
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:54.480
guy Ward Hendrickson. We did another episode on CBS thirteen

324
00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:57.920
for that. We then went into Aphrodity Jones, which I

325
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:01.319
believe we talked about last week. Her f BI sources

326
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:04.160
indicated that the handwriting was a match between Jack W.

327
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.680
Terrence Junior and the Zodiac writings, Mitzi Roberts and the LAPD.

328
00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.640
We took information to them again. The Captain sat there

329
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.160
on the edge of his seat, licking his lips, totally

330
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.920
into the presentation I was given, but then ordered Mitsi

331
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.240
Roberts to leave it alone.

332
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:21.680
Yeah.

333
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:27.359
Yeah. Then we found out the NAPA shares well, they went, nope,

334
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.039
you're not doing anything with this. We also took it

335
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.839
to the NAPA Sheriff's Department and NAPA PD. This was

336
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.319
a singular visit with both agencies after they had received

337
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.359
a government grant to work on cold cases. When we

338
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.160
got there, they indicated that they did not have sufficient

339
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.720
resources from this grant in order to revisit the Zodiac case,

340
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.000
which I thought was pure crap because I'm bringing you evidence,

341
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:51.799
clear evidence that you can oh, we have more evidence

342
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.279
in other cases. They say that if you had more

343
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.440
evidence in other cases, they'd be solved already. You douche.

344
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.720
Oh I said that. That made me mad?

345
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:01.759
Did you cry?

346
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.759
Uh? We did?

347
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:07.599
Oh? No?

348
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.720
Did I did something else for Bileo? No? No, I

349
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.680
don't think that we ever attempted to go in there.

350
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.880
But yeah, they so, they indicated they didn't have the resources,

351
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.200
but they had better evidence in other cases. Well here,

352
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.960
I'm walking evidence right through your door. But I don't

353
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:31.119
even begin to understand what the difficulty here is. So

354
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.960
that was the response from them. I also did a

355
00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:40.160
forty hour rigology class in order to identify fingerprints with

356
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.039
the NAPA Sheriff's Department, and I was there for a week.

357
00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.440
I had reached out to the cold case detective. He

358
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.880
kind of shunned me and put me off. The gal

359
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:55.519
who headed the event for it was Ron Smith and Associates,

360
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.880
which teaches and trains in these different fields, including rigolo,

361
00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:05.200
but they also do blood splatter and gunshots I'm sorry,

362
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.599
bullets and all kinds of different forensic techniques. They go

363
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.680
around and train people all over the United States, maybe

364
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:16.119
even out of the country. But the gal Briam Breedlove,

365
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:20.480
who was a fingerprint analyst for the Sheriff's department there

366
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:27.079
in NAPA, had intimated that she could possibly if we

367
00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.240
could get the cold case detective to release the prints

368
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.839
on the Zodiac case, we could at least an attempt

369
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.720
to run the right fingerprint that I have right thumb print, sorry,

370
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:39.559
that I have from Jack Terrence and his military records.

371
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.079
But she couldn't get him to budge and do anything

372
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.880
for us either, So literally being cut off from withinside

373
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.440
the joint for a second time. So yay, NAPA, and

374
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:58.799
that's where I'm from. I'm pissy. Let's see. I reached

375
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:03.200
out to Bruce Ivans in these cases just to discuss

376
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:05.240
but I didn't know he was dead at the time.

377
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.720
That letter somehow made it into the hands of the

378
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.200
New York Police Department. I received a phone call from

379
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.279
a not so nice detective out of the police department

380
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.839
threatening that I should not be attempting to contact scientists.

381
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.920
That was much mattered, Yes, what what what.

382
00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:26.759
Is?

383
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:31.839
I wasn't threatening nobody. I wasn't like, you know, asking

384
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:36.319
for secrets. I wasn't. I was literally reaching out to say, hey,

385
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.359
I think you're innocent, and I have a handwriting that

386
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.319
matches this I'd like to know more about the greeting

387
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:45.400
card you received kind of thing. And of course I

388
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.640
got that threatening phone call and I thought, I mean,

389
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.920
it shook me up a bit, obviously, when a police

390
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.039
officer calls you and tells you to stop doing something.

391
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.920
I was like, it's and I asked my questions. You

392
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.799
know me, I'm stubborn. I'm like, it's illegal to contact

393
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.640
a scientist. I don't I don't understand at length what y.

394
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.759
Yeah, well, and they should be mal that's a federal offense.

395
00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:12.000
And why did it go to them.

396
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:14.519
Now never intercepting it.

397
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.559
Well, then that's just another oddity in this whole thing,

398
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:23.880
I mean honestly.

399
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.519
Also, it was a phone called, so you don't have

400
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.279
no proof of who this actually could have been.

401
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.519
It could have been FDI, could have.

402
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.920
Been well, I mean yeah, other than him identifying himself.

403
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:38.000
And I'm sure he identified himself with his name and

404
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.359
may or may not have it somewhere, and that I might.

405
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.519
Actually I did notice that I have some information in

406
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.079
here from back in that day as to responses from

407
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.359
these different agencies We're going to go over as well.

408
00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.720
But I just want to say that he really just

409
00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:56.279
kind of asserted. He's asserted as and and you're right,

410
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:01.599
I don't know, it could be any of those agencies. Lindsay,

411
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:03.160
do you do you not sound a girl?

412
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:05.079
Ah? Yeah?

413
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.319
Can you hear me now? I can hear you now?

414
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:08.680
So what were you trained to say?

415
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.480
I was just gonna say, that's really weird that they wouldn't.

416
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.359
You're having a hard time interviewing him, because in the

417
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:19.319
Charlie Kirk case, there's another citizen journalist that was able

418
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.079
to interview one of the patsies that claimed that he

419
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.039
was the shooter on nine to ten and then was

420
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:29.799
later charged with child pornography. Ironically, as they all do,

421
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.519
you know, as we know we've seen that pattern of

422
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.440
them charging them with that and the phone. But he

423
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:40.640
was able to get two interviews with him. So that's

424
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.160
really weird and like and that's like a very high scale,

425
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.480
you know case. So for you guys to not be

426
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.000
able to get, you know, an interview with a with

427
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.160
an inmate like that, that's really weird.

428
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.119
There's something along with that. And so I applied first

429
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.599
and got approval. Then we sent in Nolan's application, which

430
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.160
should have just gotten an easy and simple approval. Peter

431
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.000
Wilson indicated that he wanted to be able to be

432
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:09.400
interviewed because Nolan would be his attorney, which I think

433
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:11.799
was kind of a misstep on his part because Nolan

434
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.920
was coming in to assess what was going on with

435
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.519
the case. He hadn't agreed to take the case, so

436
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:18.240
that threw a wrench into it. And now all of

437
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.559
a sudden, this other entity reaches out. So it's HCF

438
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:25.160
of Stockton, which is a mental health facility for inmates.

439
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.720
So they reach out to Nolan via an email telling

440
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.519
him he needs to complete this other stuff. Nolan does it,

441
00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.680
and now can't get anybody on the phone, right, can't

442
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.240
get anybody on behind it to answer.

443
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:44.440
Email address, and I sent numerous emails and they're not responding. Right.

444
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.680
Jump through every they asked me to jump through, and

445
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.680
I mean the application speaks for itself.

446
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.279
It's pretty detailed. You helped me get it.

447
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:55.599
Yeah, no, And it should have just been a simple

448
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.799
approval so that Nolan and I can set up a

449
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.359
time and go in and sit down that you're Wilson.

450
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.319
Escape bars, that my license is good and then get

451
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:04.720
back to me.

452
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:06.480
Let's schedule a term dating.

453
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:10.359
Dad and I don't understand, and I don't understand. I mean,

454
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:14.480
I think that this facility, facility will actually allow us

455
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.200
to be in the same room with him versus on

456
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:19.079
the other side of a window. But what why why

457
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:23.799
are we prevented from recording any part of the conversation

458
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:25.079
or interview that we're having.

459
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.480
I've been countered resistance like this several different prisons as well.

460
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:34.400
BACKA Bill is the worst. I used to do role

461
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:38.640
hearings for life criminals and Backer Bill. They treat you

462
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.359
like a criminal because they figure you're on the criminal

463
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.720
side because you're the lawyer.

464
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.519
Yeah, yeah, we would even let you do audio. They're

465
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:50.839
they're like this, they're not allowing audio.

466
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.519
They say, I can record him if he calls me,

467
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.640
So he's welcome to call me and I can record

468
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.640
him that way. But and maybe maybe I have to

469
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:01.720
do that. Figure out how it is that he has

470
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.319
to call me, right, I don't know.

471
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.079
Us we'll remember what he says.

472
00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.200
Right, But it's just so much stronger when it comes

473
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:15.079
out of their mouth. Right, It's not just us saying something,

474
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.480
it's like coming from that person. And and I don't know,

475
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.319
we've got to get that figured out. I got that

476
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:20.880
on the list.

477
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.559
How I definitely did the call and then start from

478
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.079
there and then like, because you know, that's what this

479
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.079
other journalist was able to do. They were able to

480
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.920
talk to him on the phone, right, Yeah.

481
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:33.119
They just have to be able to have the time

482
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.039
and make that phone call. So so back to this

483
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.599
one sad badge, he comes in, he drops off the

484
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:41.440
cheese letter which refers to Monticello, and we talked about

485
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.839
Monticello Ranch. I think it was out there in the

486
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.319
Lake Berryessa area, So there is some type of consistency

487
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.519
with that letter, though I still don't know that that

488
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:54.960
wasn't some you know, pull uh plot that that tom

489
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.000
Boy and his trolls were attempting to pull off on

490
00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:59.400
Dennis and I and they had a big chuckle over it.

491
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.720
So I just left that one alone. We have Dave Mack.

492
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:06.759
Dave Mack is the one that actually had provided me

493
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:11.440
with the the Tim Miller finale letters. And of course,

494
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.799
as Tim Miller was at my house, he had a

495
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:17.839
I think he was a former head of the FBI.

496
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.519
He was talking with in regards to the possibility that

497
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.079
Jack Terrence being the Zodiac could also have been the

498
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:28.680
I forty five killer and they fed the the email

499
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.640
and the you are at the IP address that I

500
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.720
had for Dave Mack to that guy. That guy supposedly

501
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.920
attempted to look him up and could not find him,

502
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.000
so that was interesting. We talked about D'Antonio, who was

503
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:46.039
a big oliphan although he was quite harassing in itself,

504
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.279
just like Tom Voyd. Jake Wark's another one of those

505
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:54.759
trolls that likes to harass and beat people's personalities up

506
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:56.720
if you will. I mean, he like literally went in

507
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.640
posted on a blog for Christina Klow, who's working on

508
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:03.119
these Son of Sam letters. Then I'm a drug addict,

509
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.279
which I can let that one go a little bit.

510
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.799
I mean, haha, I know the truth, and I'm usually

511
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:11.160
that type of person. You don't know what I do,

512
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.680
so make all the accusations you want. But he put

513
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:19.480
it in typeprint on a blog. He has since removed it.

514
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:20.880
What's that?

515
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:22.920
So you learned?

516
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.359
Aid work with this person that's working on the set

517
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.160
of Sam stuff.

518
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:28.640
She did indicate that they were looking at doing a

519
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.319
documentary and she asked me if I would be interested

520
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:33.400
in participating in it, but I told her I was

521
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.799
extremely busy right at this moment. Once this work in

522
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:38.200
the house and so forth is done, then I can

523
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:40.799
think about it. I still haven't done any handwriting really

524
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:43.039
in that case, so I'm not sure where I could

525
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:47.079
be helpful just yet in a documentary, but we'll see.

526
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:53.079
So let's see. We had Harriet Soouchet, who came in

527
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.759
with all the codes, and of course she believes her

528
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.960
father was killed by anthrax in nineteen ninety or nineteen

529
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:02.200
ninety one. He basically bled out at the kitchen table

530
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.400
after receiving a package in which case some type of

531
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.960
powder flew all over the place after he had opened

532
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.720
it up. It became pretty much a cosmat scene. Her

533
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.319
dog got sick, and she was provided cipro, which is

534
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.319
one of the common medications given to prevent anthrax in

535
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:24.000
humans from killing humans. So it was interesting to note

536
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.799
that as early as nineteen ninety ninety one cipro was

537
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:31.000
being handed out. We know that they started cataloging anthrax

538
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.440
in nineteen ninety three, so it makes sense that they started,

539
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:39.200
you know, building some type of protection or an antibiotic

540
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:43.720
I guess if you will, for that particular disease. I'm

541
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:51.480
sorry chemical. Let's see now. Of course, she did a

542
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.279
lot on the codes and some of the things that

543
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.519
she actually found out was interesting. She also had a

544
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.119
computer that Dennis and I attempted to pick up from her.

545
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.039
It was the first time we ever met her in person.

546
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.960
That is, she was on Dennis's message board having some

547
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.640
of the same issues with Voight and Crew. But she

548
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.440
had a computer that was from back in two thousand

549
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:13.359
and one with all the original images on it. We

550
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:16.559
couldn't get or pull anything off of it. It unfortunately

551
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:19.279
had fried and probably had been delivered some type of

552
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.160
a virus, as we see with many of these websites.

553
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.000
In fact, if you were to go to my message board,

554
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.599
the likelihood is is that once you typed in that URL,

555
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:29.799
you're going to actually get a message that says that

556
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.400
it is not a safe site. And I think that

557
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.200
they have triggered this on purpose so that people think

558
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.720
that this site has a virus, which it doesn't. I've

559
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.480
never installed any virus, not in anything. So if there's

560
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:44.519
an image on there that I pulled off the internet,

561
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.839
that may have a virus that came from the people

562
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.319
who put it online, not me. And I've not had

563
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:53.960
anybody complain that their computer had shut down or gone

564
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.839
bad because they had been at my site. But it

565
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.599
is a common message. People tell me that they get

566
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:04.319
Tim Miller and Steph Watts coming out in regards to

567
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.400
the finale letter. We saw all kinds of movement in

568
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.319
the case, but Tim Miller still had his favorite suspect.

569
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.519
Later on he sent out his private investigator, Bill Young,

570
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.920
who had me do the handwriting for Clyde Hedrick, which

571
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.880
I determined was not amounched to the Zodiac writing, albeit

572
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.039
he I don't even think he could have been out

573
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.519
here during the timeframe that was necessary, because if he's

574
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:33.480
back in Texas and you have no evidence that supports

575
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.960
he was in California, I think it was more or

576
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:40.240
less their attempts to force fit Clyde Hedrick into the

577
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:45.000
Zodiac box when it's just quite the opposite. Hendrick is

578
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.279
probably not the killer of his thought, and I'm gonna

579
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.240
say probably not, But we do believe that there are

580
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.559
other people that are involved, and there's a possibility that

581
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.759
the Zodiac was writing for a group of people in

582
00:32:54.799 --> 00:33:01.240
regards to some of these crimes. And see I've received

583
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:06.039
internet harassment, I've received trolls. I have people that are

584
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.599
still call me today asking me to look at their

585
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:12.119
suspects handwriting. Just as recently as this last week, I

586
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.160
received a phone call from another individual who wanted me

587
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:17.480
to look at the handwriting of someone she believed could

588
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:19.880
have been the Zodiac, but then it indicated he wasn't

589
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.880
born until nineteen forty six. Well, that would have made

590
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:26.880
him like in his early twenties and not necessarily something

591
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.160
that we would expect to see for the timeframe. So

592
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.000
there's just a lot that you end up going through

593
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.480
when you're in these cases. You're being denied access to

594
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:41.400
law enforcement who refuses to investigate. You've got people coming

595
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.160
out trying to diminish your character or even ruin your reputation.

596
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.559
Let's not forget that. I also suffered almost a complete

597
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.759
business shut down after I released my opinion against Bart's wishes,

598
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:58.559
and that was because he and some of the other

599
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.279
students I get or apprentice they might have already become

600
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:06.880
document examiners. He had gotten them to do kind of

601
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:10.880
a media war against me in advertising in my area,

602
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.159
which they undercut my prices and cost caused the pay

603
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:18.320
per clicks on Google to go up exponentially. It was

604
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:23.360
absolutely insane. I was seeing pay per clicks for seventeen

605
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.159
dollars for one click. Nolan, Wow, yeah, it used.

606
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:30.400
That is crazy.

607
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.239
It had been anywhere from a dollar thirty to you know,

608
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.880
two dollars and seventy cents and then what it's This

609
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:39.320
is why I quit using Google pay per click because

610
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:43.360
they turn it into a all out bidding war basically.

611
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:45.880
And I watched the price of a pay per click

612
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.039
go from a buck fifty to seventeen dollars per click

613
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:54.119
because they were advertising in my area. Now it's going

614
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.880
to be who wants it, who will pay more for

615
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:00.639
that click? So I was suffering some into the tune

616
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.480
of one thousand dollars a month in paper clicks, but

617
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:07.000
I'm not getting any business because they've advertised to undercut

618
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:11.599
my feets. It was absolutely insane that I thought I

619
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.760
was going to start to death for about three months

620
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:16.400
until everything kind of rectified and cleared itself out. And

621
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.480
again I didn't even find out that that war had

622
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.239
been waged on me until twenty twenty one when one

623
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.800
of the people who participated in it admitted to it.

624
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.800
And go figure, they're a president of a forensic society

625
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:31.159
I was a member of and Europe. It just It

626
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.519
blows my mind that anybody could do this to anybody

627
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.880
in our industry, let alone somebody who is running a

628
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:45.719
forensic society. Really yeah, all right, So, and all the

629
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:49.360
while and the harassment, the lack of teamwork from void,

630
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.039
wortd' antonio, Sad Badge, many others have caused a divide,

631
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.960
just like law enforcement. So no soul is going to

632
00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:58.360
be insight unless people start getting on board and telling

633
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:01.880
the truth. I'm here. Here is the actual email address,

634
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:06.159
davemackfive at gmail dot com. My knowledge so this is

635
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.000
November twentieth of two thousand and nine, he contacts me.

636
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:13.039
My belief at the time is ex LAPD Dave Mack.

637
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:17.960
He's a police officer. Again his IPS address, I'm pretty

638
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:19.519
sure he's the one that led the way for the

639
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.440
Tim Miller letter and then he just absolutely disappeared. So

640
00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.320
he basically dropped off the URLs to I want to

641
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:32.320
say it was photobucket or no sorry, uh no, it

642
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:38.039
wasn't photobucket, so I'll find it. But he led the

643
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.000
way to that, so that I found both of the

644
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:44.400
actual versions, the handwritten version and of the cutout version,

645
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.599
which again Tim Miller had never seen the handwritten version,

646
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.639
so very interesting. The letter goes missing in less than

647
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:53.480
a year of him turning it over to the League

648
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:57.760
City Police Department, and then it ends up on the

649
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:02.679
internet in two different versions, and he hadn't seen so

650
00:37:02.840 --> 00:37:05.400
leading back to that whole media stuff, we can see

651
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.320
here we've got barred up here with Larry King, which

652
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.760
is one of his big to dos. He seems to

653
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.280
be quite like these other individuals that are kind of

654
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.320
media hogs seen a Wong Michelle Dredsboul. There are people

655
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.760
in this industry that really tout I mean, Patricia Fisher.

656
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.880
These people will actually put their media references on their

657
00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:30.400
websites as if being in the media gives them some

658
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.480
type of credibility.

659
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.239
Yeah.

660
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:39.360
Well, we've seen over the years how many cases were

661
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:40.320
covered on Larry King.

662
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:42.920
I mean, come on, almost all of them. He gets

663
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:48.079
everything right. Yeah, And you know, I started contemplating yesterday

664
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:50.840
in a conversation with a friend about how and I

665
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.760
know this I might get some feedback, but maybe even

666
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:56.639
negative feedback, I don't know, But how I felt that

667
00:37:56.760 --> 00:38:02.679
COVID was the modern day Holocaust, right, meant to help

668
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:11.239
those prosper while population control takes place and small businesses

669
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.559
get put out. I mean, like literally, I don't know

670
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.280
how many small businesses during COVID went out of business,

671
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:22.159
but who rose up? Amazon delivery companies, online companies. People

672
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:26.239
that already had the money have now taken over the

673
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.719
small person's business, which is kind of disgusting either way.

674
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:33.920
So we did see here at one point in time,

675
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.199
did the movie get it wrong? What do you think

676
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:38.800
of the two thousand and nine confession of Debora Perez?

677
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:42.599
So this was actually on his website at one point,

678
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.760
and that just kind of blows my mind because we

679
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:47.559
know in the long run that she was just a

680
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:50.880
giant fraud. And I'm pretty sure that I found the

681
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.280
actual blogs in which she was discussing she was the

682
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:56.480
love child of JFK and Marilyn Monroe. So it's just

683
00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:00.639
another I don't know. So California says father father was

684
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.639
Zodiac killer and she played a role, and this is

685
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.880
says mister McLean said that miss Perez had past psychological

686
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:09.880
exams and that her handwriting claims have been confirmed by

687
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:14.440
Bart Baggett, an expert document examiner from Los Angeles. What

688
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:15.159
do we think of that?

689
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:18.280
Wow?

690
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.639
You know, so basically he put he got in the

691
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:24.920
league with Deborah Perez and she was a fraud.

692
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:27.840
That kind of makes him a fraud too. Yeah.

693
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:34.760
Well, and I had and well, and I meanutation well,

694
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.639
I mean he's backed off of it obviously since then,

695
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.239
you know, claiming that there was no affiliation. But I

696
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:43.280
took a lot of this stuff early on. And again,

697
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.639
he had the conversation with me that he was going

698
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.280
to write a book and do a documentary on somebody

699
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:52.199
he believes was legitimately the daughter of the Zodiac Killer

700
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:53.880
and that she had the hood and she had Paul

701
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:57.039
Stein's glasses and his keys and these things that she

702
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.599
never never actually even had. And again and she wasn't

703
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.840
related to this person, so that she was claiming. So

704
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.119
the whole thing was a farce. And you're right, it

705
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.039
should hurt your opinion. But I hear these days he's

706
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:14.440
charging three thousand dollars to do a case. It's all

707
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:17.880
about the money in the end. And he actually sent

708
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.119
me off all the way to South Carolina to trial

709
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.599
in a case. I declared the signature to be a

710
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.440
valid signature, and because I couldn't release my opinion as

711
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.960
an apprentice, I had to release his, which then told

712
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.880
my clients that it was a forgery. I even tried

713
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:35.800
to protect my clients before having them engage me to

714
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:38.320
go to trial and tell them that all I have

715
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:40.519
to do is see one time your dad did this,

716
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:42.880
and this is going to be a legitimate signature. I

717
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.000
need you to understand. I feel like this is a

718
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.440
legitimate signature. But their dad had done something so drastically

719
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:52.079
different in his signature while he was married to a

720
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.480
very fraudulent person for thirty years and very upset about it,

721
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:57.320
but he was a good Christian man that was not

722
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.119
going to get a divorce lost all night teen acres

723
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:05.280
and houses on a lake to this woman who presented

724
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:08.239
a will from nineteen seventy six, even though there was

725
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:12.559
evidence including the minister of this man stating that he

726
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.360
had been working on a new will that was going

727
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:21.400
to exclude this woman as an heir. And so I

728
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:26.000
get there, and of course I see things like bailout

729
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:28.800
paperwork for his son where he is signed using the

730
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.079
exact same signature that they didn't recognize as being his.

731
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:35.679
So he briefly made a change for thirty years and

732
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.320
the way he did his signature, and he actually would

733
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:41.239
wrap his first capital letter with a circle, which is

734
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:45.679
a sign of trying to protect himself. He changed that

735
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.440
and on his deathbed went back to his normal signature

736
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:54.880
that the daughters knew in that a trip. Yeah, psychologically speaking, right, Yeah,

737
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:57.760
he's wrapped up in something fraudulent and ikey and he

738
00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:00.159
doesn't like it, and he's trying to protect himself for

739
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:03.719
thirty years. And then when he's being set free, basically dying,

740
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:06.840
does he go back to his normal handwriting. So bottom

741
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.119
line was I got there. I get to see that

742
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.679
he has definitely used this signature for the last thirty years.

743
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:15.760
And my clients have just paid an excess of five

744
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.079
grand for me to go to South Carolina. And guess

745
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:24.320
who got half that money? Tod Boy hm hmm, I

746
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:29.079
your maggot. Yeah, you're making the one who told me

747
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.760
that it was a forgery. I did not want to

748
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.480
render that opinion, but I had.

749
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.320
So wrong about everything he got. I can't believe he

750
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:38.599
still makes money.

751
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:43.039
Because you only had. It never matters unless you're impeached

752
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:46.760
in court. Most of the cases you don't come up

753
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.199
against another documentary examiner. So how often do you really

754
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.880
have to fight for your food? You don't. But if

755
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.840
you declare everything a forgery or authentic in favor of

756
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:58.840
your client going into courts where you make the most money.

757
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:05.360
Iey Cross exaviting him when he gave his testimony, I

758
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.280
would impute his credibility by bringing up Deborah Parros.

759
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:12.800
I know, I know, I know, you make him look

760
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:13.519
real bad for.

761
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:15.840
A jury or a judge or whatever.

762
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.159
Well, it was shameful. I literally cried on the court

763
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.719
steps in South Carolina. I mean I was. I was

764
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.480
beyond broken to know that I was sent on a

765
00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:30.559
job that I knew instinctively and had told my clients

766
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.239
that I believed that it was a legitimate signature despite

767
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:36.599
that one item, and even had the wherewithal to tell

768
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:39.559
them if I see another signature where he has done this,

769
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.199
then your complaint is done. It's over. It's a legitimate signature.

770
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.239
And they still took me and guess what afterwards, they

771
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.480
never talked to me again. And that's not that's not

772
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.360
how it usually goes with my clients. I have clients

773
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.360
that will still contact me, will keep up with me,

774
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.960
will you know, check in on me. And again I said,

775
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.840
ninety five to ninety six percent of my cases, I'm

776
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:05.079
not trying to go to court. I mean, despite the

777
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:08.119
money that's in it there, it is not a comfortable

778
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:10.480
place to be. It's very stressful, and you want your

779
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:14.119
client to not have to suffer those costs. Obviously not

780
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:18.960
the case. Here more information as we walk up and

781
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:23.000
down some of the websites was the latest movie Zodiac

782
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:27.840
Links Stark, stars Jake Gillenhall, Mark Ruffalo, and Anthony Edwards.

783
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.480
In the movie, the author suggests the killers are d

784
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.159
Lee Allen, Who's handwriting We do have a copy on

785
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:36.679
this site. However, Bart Baggett contradicts this theory during the

786
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:40.400
America's Most Wanted episode air date February twenty fourth, claiming

787
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.119
the handwriting of two suspects in the movie simply doesn't match,

788
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:47.000
leave me more questions as to who the real killer is.

789
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:50.679
Update in two thousand and nine, Bart still has not

790
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:53.360
identified the Zodiac killer's handwriting and found it to be

791
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.400
inconclusive when new suspect guy Ward Hendrickson The New York

792
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:01.360
Times did not accurately quote Baggott's p Theleminary qualified findings

793
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:07.159
regarding the handwriting of Deborah Press, Are you eving kidding me? Like? Now,

794
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.400
let's put on it so this is where he's retracting

795
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:12.000
it on his website. We just got done. Did the

796
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.480
movie get it wrong? What do you think of? Why

797
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.920
are we asking the public what we think of Deborah

798
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.400
Perez's handwriting? If you don't believe that she is, to

799
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:25.239
turn around and say that you were misquoted and that

800
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:31.159
he's not made an identification, I don't know. However, Bart

801
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:34.119
Bagett contradicts this theory during the America's Most Wanted Episode

802
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.519
air date, claiming that the handwriting Oh okay, no, I

803
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.000
already read that. That's just a second spot on there.

804
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:41.239
But we do get to see. Like I said, in

805
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:43.840
my opinion, the zodiac writings don't match checks written by

806
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.760
Arthur Lee. Allen and the document examiner in the seventies agree,

807
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:50.440
even as poorly written custody writing doesn't match. What about

808
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:54.079
Lawrence Kaine's writing from the police files under questioning fake writing?

809
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:58.280
See it here? So again, just he's talking about more

810
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.119
of the false suspects while promoting a false suspect, And

811
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:04.280
for me, it just doesn't work. I've stayed strong, I've

812
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:07.679
stayed true to the handwriting examination that I've done. I've

813
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:11.079
not flip flopped back and forth. I have shown the evidence.

814
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:13.440
I've put it out there for peer review. Nobody has

815
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.719
seemed to be willing to stand up and go against

816
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:20.840
me toe to toe to talk about these actual characteristics,

817
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:24.119
and that to me speaks volumes. I've been doing this

818
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.800
forere gosh, seventeen years. Not one person has come and said, Tonette,

819
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.199
let's talk about these characteristics and how I might be

820
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:35.199
wrong exactly. I don't think it will have.

821
00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:38.079
Instead, they just try to silence you, you know, under

822
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:38.519
the table.

823
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:41.440
Oh yeah, we're gonna get to some of that too, hopefully.

824
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:43.639
I mean, obviously we're gonna still be doing my story

825
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.960
up until next week. Now it looks like because I

826
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:49.159
actually have some of the things that media like the

827
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.199
History Channel has said about Dennis and I, I have

828
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.719
these quotes and these things that are happening. When when

829
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:58.360
you people stand up and stop talking ad hominine arguments

830
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:02.599
about the characters of Dennis or myself and or clumping

831
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.039
me into what Dennis had going on, and start talking

832
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.239
about the actual evidence, but not one will do it.

833
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:11.000
I think it's kind of unfair that they're even able

834
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:14.360
to write a blog on their on their History Channel

835
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.280
website about me when you haven't even spoke to me.

836
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:24.679
Yeah, that's that's it's part of their their protocol. It's

837
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:26.719
you know, you see it in a as a pattern

838
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:29.360
in many, many cases of the years that I've researched.

839
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:33.119
I mean, it's just continuous pattern of you know, shaming

840
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:35.960
the truth or the person that's coming to you with

841
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.800
the evidence, and instead they want to dig onto some

842
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.159
baggage that you were associated with, or you know, that

843
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.159
someone else had that you spoke with. Like it's always,

844
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:49.039
you know, they don't want to look at what you have.

845
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.320
They want to look over there or over here and

846
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.639
not even pay attention to what you are coming to

847
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:55.159
the puppet evidence.

848
00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:01.239
Yeah. Yeah. So on February nineteenth ten, a press release

849
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:03.679
on the anthrax mailing said that Bruce Evans was being

850
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.039
named the one and only suspect by the FBI with

851
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:10.199
the assistance of Northern Arizona University, which I found extremely

852
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.719
interesting because you guys, remember when I said Arizona University

853
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:18.119
is the one that cataloged anthrax. Northern Arizona University is

854
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:21.280
where Stephen Dewhurst came out of and walked away with

855
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.639
many negatives and roles of film that had not been

856
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:27.840
developed from Dennis Kaufman. It is also where Chris Pickele

857
00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:31.360
started before she came and started covering. Why did she,

858
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.039
out of everybody, be the only one willing to take

859
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.639
on Dennis's story? She gave him more airtime than anybody else,

860
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.639
even if it had been cut to seconds, in order

861
00:48:39.679 --> 00:48:42.159
to make him look ridiculous or like a fool. There

862
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.679
was a purpose behind that agenda. I absolutely believe that.

863
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:48.960
One week later, and a lot of these people come

864
00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:51.320
from that university, I've noticed.

865
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.360
That's what I'm saying. Like that, there's to me, the

866
00:48:54.440 --> 00:48:57.920
connection in the pattern there with Arizona University kind of

867
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.880
speaks some volumes right now, since we've thk going out

868
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:03.079
of that area and these are the only people who

869
00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:07.679
are willing to pay attention to Dennis, it, yeah, it

870
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:11.760
screams red flag. One week later, Congress comes out and

871
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.079
states that they're passing a bill forcing the investigation to

872
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:16.880
stay open because the handwriting, forensics, and m O does

873
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:19.840
not match Ivans. I think that's about all we'll have

874
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.320
for today. We are down to our final seconds. But

875
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.239
when we come back, we'll continue with the additional research,

876
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.360
investigation and work that I have presented or turned over

877
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:32.639
to the agencies that should be looking at it, and

878
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:37.000
how they responded to it. Thank you both, Lindsay and

879
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.679
Nolan for being here. I hope you guys have a

880
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:43.360
wonderful weekend and we'll see everyone next Friday.

881
00:49:43.280 --> 00:50:06.119
Yes, all Rightody too, An you think anything