July 24, 2026

My Experiences with the Zodiac Killer Case

My Experiences with the Zodiac Killer Case
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Winding down this presentation on Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. as the best suspect for the Zodiac Killer crimes and so much more. From shout outs by crazy people to tear downs from the Zodiac Killer community of cons, I have stayed steady and true to my belief that the handwriting shows that Jack wrote the letters involved with the Zodiac murders and many more unsolved crimes across the US. I will share the agencies that Dennis and I reached out to and walk you through 4 years of investigation.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome from the other room of my

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house today, Nolan del Campo.

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Good morning, everybody.

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Good morning, Oh my goodness, we are finally at I mean,

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this is the only statement for the slide that is

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on here today, and that is that Jack passes away

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in August of two thousand and six. Now, I want

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to say that I remembered it being the eighth. I

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did a search through the presentation, could not seem to

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find his date of death. But I want to say

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that it was somewhere between the eighth and the sixteenth

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of August, because that's when we start to see other

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things shake and move. But I really want everybody to

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focus on the fact that we do not. We're going

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to see one more communication that I believe is from

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the Zodiac Killer, but it had been postmarked in nineteen

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ninety and we have talked about it a couple times

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throughout this presentation. But it is the last communication I

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believe that we see written by the author the Zodiac Killer.

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So it is not coincidental that we have Jack passing

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away in two thousand and six and we stop seeing

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these letters. I haven't seen any other letters come in

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that make me think that there's somebody adopting or copycatting

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or attempting to mimic the Zodiac Killer. Otherwise we'd continue

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to see communications pop up if it were let's say,

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a group programmed to write a particular way to make

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us believe that it was the Zodiac But nonetheless not coincidental.

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Jack is passed and letters are done, right.

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Yep.

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And we kind of walked through a brief breakdown of

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you know, Dennis turning Jack in in two thousand, two

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thousand and one. In two DNA is done, Jackson is

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not completed within that parameter. Dennis tells Jack that nobody

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believes him. Jack turns over the storage shed into thousand

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and three to give Dennis more evidence. Two thousand and

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two and three he's reaching out to Tom Voight, who

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Dennis Kaufman is also having an issue with at that

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particular point in time. So Jack was very well aware

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of Tom Voight trying to get his identity out there.

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Two thousand and five we see the Tim Miller letter

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where he says, my identity has been given out basically,

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and why nobody knows is really secret or key to this,

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which is I think my premise this entire presentation is

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why is why are we not looking at the people

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that are potential good suspects instead of hosting websites upon

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websites on fake suspects. Right, that's remids go ahead.

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Question.

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When did the Afrodity Jones program on Zodiac featuring you

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and Dennis?

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When did that come out?

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I want to say that twenty ten or eleven, So

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we aired it shortly after I released my opinion, after

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Diddie Jones came in and filmed at my house actually

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for some of the segments. Yeah, so, but I didn't

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even come into the case until two thousand and nine,

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so that was relatively quick for her to have jumped

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on board and done a segment on the Zodiac. It was.

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It was very good and quite frankly, at the end

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of it star Well Dennis and chapter the Stars, I'm

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I'm just the expert.

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Humor and whatnot. It was good.

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Yeah. Yeah. We did get to doing some giggling and

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laughing and some you know, shocking exercises for her to

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see that it's hard to stop doing the things that

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are ingrained in us, and the Zodiac took the best

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whack at it. But even then we would see him

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fall apart right and start writing with his own natural handwriting,

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which I tell everybody you can only disguise for so long.

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The brain's going to it's going to flip out something

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that is your normal at some point somewhere throughout that letter,

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no matter how hard you try to disguise that. So

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right after Jack dies, I say right after so if

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he dies of August of two thousand and six, by

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March of two thousand and seven we finally see the

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Christmas postcard come out, which I want to say it's

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almost kind of like a marketing strategy because we have

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the two thousand and seven Jake gillen Hall movie coming out.

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So did they sit on this card, you know, waiting

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to pop it out because they had a new movie

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coming out, so this would raise more hubbub and media

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awareness and get everybody excited again over a card they

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had never seen. I mean, who put it out? I

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want to say, let me read this off because it'll

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tell who it is. So inside the Chris card was

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a copy of two postal carrier keys with serial numbers

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that coincided. Now, Harriet Souchet declared that the postal numbers

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on these keys were to the New Jersey state area

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and an international master postal key. These keys were universal

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and believed to have come from a military supply, or

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at least that was Harriet's take on it. Voight says

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they're from a man in Eureka. So these were post

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office box keys. But they have two different numbers on them.

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So I'm not sure why anybody would have two different

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post office box keys with two different numbers that we

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attracted two different places. That in itself is interesting, unless

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that was just another way for Voight to steer things

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in another direction. So basically, the Christmas card has Groucho

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marks type, you know, glasses with yea disguise out the

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big nose and the mustache, and he's sitting in front

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of a jack rabbit no less. Yeah, we've got all

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those jack references, and it's and it says from your

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secret pal. Can't guess who I am yet? Well look

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inside and you'll find out that I'm going to keep

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you guessing. Happy holidays anyway, So again that little haha

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joke feature that the Zodiac liked to do. So the

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Christmas Card from the Zodiac postmark nineteen ninety, but was

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not produced until March two thousand and seven. It's supposedly

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circulated in the postal system. It says that it circulated

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in the postal system until this time, per the Wikipedia source,

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but the dates may be portrayed by the source incorrectly.

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I thought that this had gone to the editor and

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had sat at the San Francisco Chronicle amongst other lost

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mail or what have you, I thought, until he discovered it.

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It was discovered at the Chronicle.

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Yeah, yeah, so up until that point though obviously, I

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mean it was mailed. When I say, did I have

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a date on this, it's just as received. Oh, received

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March two thousand and seven, even though the postmark was

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nineteen ninety and I don't get it is a Christmas card,

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so it does. I think it says December early December though.

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So the use of the ZIP code below the address

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is a form that's used both by Jack and the

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other identified communications. Again, placement on the envelope is also identifying,

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not just how you write the words upon it, but

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how you use that space on the envelope. And I

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do find that those were similar. This is about the

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time that doctor d Antonio came from Arizona so two

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thousand and seven to blame Arthur Lee Allen again by

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saying he sees the name of Ala secretly embedded in

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the zodiac letters, and Professor Deuhurst from Northern Arizona University

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came and took a world of film that was found

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in Jack's belongings in two thousand and eight from Dennis

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in order to develop them. I'm not gonna hop into

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let's see two thousand and nine. I also discovered Chris

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Pickle from CBS thirteen came out of Arizona as well.

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I don't know if there was some big push or

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ploy for Arizona people to want to jump on this

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California case. I mean, albeit the Zodiac is perceived by

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most just to be five to seven attempt victims, right,

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attempted victims, five murders, two that survived. If it was

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just that, why is there so much interest coming out

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of Arizona, I asked, right, The only thing I could

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really think of is that when Jack was a security

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guard at Arizona University. I believe that was during the

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time they were cataloging the different strains of anthrax. So

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is there a connection to these, you know, doctors, professors

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and movie people or I'm sorry, media people coming out

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of the woodworks from Arizona and wanting to cling on

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to Dennis if you will. I know that Stephen Dewhurst

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wanted to write a book, so he paid Dennis for

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those rights. Chris Pickele, I guess the benefit there was

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getting the airtime right with this spectacular story on Jack

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being the suspect, which brought her a lot of strife

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and turmoil. At least she's portrayed it that way. And

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then Stephen Dehurst or doctor Antonio Boy, me and him

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had it out. I say, me and him, that was

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so wrong. Him and I had it out a few times.

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But he's much like Tom boy.

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Right.

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They all want to push their suspect and then degrade.

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In fact, I'm talking to somebody right now who puts

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up with Tom Voit's site, but definitely says, you know,

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he likes to stay clear year of what I refer

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to as the trolls.

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Real quick on Doerst. He never did write the book, did.

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He He did? I've been yeah, we're gonna see I

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think we're going to see another portion of it here

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in this next couple slides. But yes he did, and

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he did like most others did, which was boom, let

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me turn that phone off. Good lord, I'm not getting links.

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Can you have one? Rescind I emailed him alreadyme on

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Lindsey says she's not getting the links, but I don't

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understand getting It's the same link.

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Yeah, she should have started that said.

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It's always the same link. Go back. He doesn't resend.

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Sorry guys for taking that quick break.

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If another question, Yes, what happened to the roles of film?

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Some were given to the FBI, some were given to

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Stephen Dehurst. Some of those negatives were returned by Stephen Dohurst.

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Some were kept. He claimed he had the right to

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keep them. Because he bought the rights to write the book,

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which I thought was pure crap that didn't make to

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the evidence. Yeah, the FBI, all of the film that

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they produced produced a whole bunch of families and kids

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and all kinds of things, and Dennis's I don't know

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one of them. They're not family. Have no idea why

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these pictures are these rules of film are in Jack's

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belongings with all these kids and stuff on it, because

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they weren't anybody that Dennis knew, right, I don't know.

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Only two to two and below it's not showing anymore.

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I don't know. In the the show one, can you

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send Lindsey a link? Email her a link again, I

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don't know, showing up in her She says, it's not

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showing up on her stream yard. I don't know what

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that means, because.

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Well, you've just re sent it to her email.

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I think, okay, just sent Okay, Now we can get

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back to what we're doing, all right. So aside from that,

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we saw Deborahrez come out and blames her dead adopted father.

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I'm again trying to figure out. Now these are old words, guys.

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We've come a long way since then. We know some

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of these answers, But why everyone is rushing to conceal

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the identity of Jack by blaming dead men. The only

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thing that I could think of at the time is

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that ant Brex was the reason. If they could close

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Zodiac on somebody who is already dead, then it could

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never be connected to Anthrax, and possibly this entire scheme

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or syndicate of individuals could not be found out because

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it would not be linked. I did find an interesting

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article from the Valeo Times Herald. This is an old one.

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It's going to take us back to the Cecilia Shepherd

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and Brian Hartnell, and it's out of Valeo actually, so

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Mayor Island. It looks like San Francisco Bay Naval Shipyard.

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So this is literally coming out of the Mayor Island

224
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newspaper September. It looks like tenth of nineteen sixty nine.

225
00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.559
I can barely read it. Yeah, we're going to find

226
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.440
some things interesting in here, and I'm hoping that I'm

227
00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:55.279
going to be able to read all of this clear enough.

228
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:59.000
But it says multiple wounds, fatal companion listed as serious.

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00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:03.679
Authorities give out more details on merciless attack by Jane Smith.

230
00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.240
Times Harold's staff writer so NAPA. Cecilia Shepherd, the twenty

231
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.600
two year old co ed stabbed by a hooded killer

232
00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.519
at Lake Berryessa Saturday, lost her fight for life at

233
00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:16.480
three forty five pm Monday in Queen of the Valley Hospital.

234
00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:22.879
Her parents, Mister and Missus Robert Shepherd of Riverside, were

235
00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.840
at her side when she succumbed to multiple stand wounds

236
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.240
inflicted by an unknown assailant who attacked the girl and

237
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:33.799
her boyfriend Brian Hart, now twenty, as they sat by

238
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.559
the lakeside one fourth of a mile north of Park

239
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.919
headquarters at an evening picnic.

240
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:41.120
She was.

241
00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:43.879
Go ahead, just.

242
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.759
Another tie in for Riverside. I didn't know her parents

243
00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:48.120
were for Riverside.

244
00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.600
So Yeside, Yes, So there was she So Sherry Joe

245
00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:59.159
Bates went to Riverside Community College and she and Cecilia

246
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:03.639
Shepherd went to Riverside University. I believe it was, but

247
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.679
there was, yeah, there was. There was some type of connection.

248
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.000
I thought, as though they knew each other or somebody

249
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.679
affiliated with Cecilia Shepherd had attended a wedding of some

250
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:19.200
sort with the Bates or vice versa. There was there

251
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.720
was some talk about some connection between them. Or the

252
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:27.240
possibility of them having crosspaths and Riverside.

253
00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:33.000
And Brian Hartnell relocated to Riverside too, right, I heard.

254
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.639
I don't know if he's still he's probably retired by now,

255
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.480
but he was practicing law on Riverside right right.

256
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.159
We did try to reach out to him, but he

257
00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:46.039
did not respond back. It says she was knifed mercilessly

258
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.879
seven times in the back and abdomen. I thought she

259
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:53.679
was stabbed more times than that, but so seven times

260
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:59.879
back in ab abdomen. Hartnell's condition was listed as serious

261
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.920
by a hospital spokesman. His parents, mister and Missus Calvin

262
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:12.720
Clavit Calvin and Heartnell of Troddale Organ. So it looks

263
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:20.240
like they're out of Troutdale. Organ kept a constant vigil

264
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:27.920
at the hospital, as had the Shepherds since early Sunday.

265
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:31.759
Heartnell was stabbed ten times in the back. See so

266
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:36.640
I thought the female I know I was. I was

267
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.839
under the impression that too. But again, we're paying attention

268
00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:43.599
to a newspaper who may not necessarily have those numbers correctly, right,

269
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:48.160
something first to argue over no suspect. Sheriff's investigators said

270
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.720
they have not yet identified a suspect in the killing.

271
00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.680
Something to the murder of three vale of residents in

272
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:01.160
two separate incidents last December, OH link linked to the

273
00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:06.599
murder of three Valeo rest residents in two separate incidents

274
00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:11.200
last December and July and all points. Bulletin was issued

275
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.599
to law enforcement agencies throughout the nation, describing the killer

276
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.960
as having been having brown hair, about five foot nine

277
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.839
to six feet tall, twenty to thirty years of age,

278
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.440
two hundred to two hundred and fifty pounds, with a

279
00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:34.119
husky voice. Now, except for the twenty to thirty year

280
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:40.559
old part, that does pretty much describe Jack moving on.

281
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.160
He had that hood on. And was that description coming

282
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:46.000
from hert andelt?

283
00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:49.559
I think that it was supposedly coming from the victims

284
00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:54.400
at Blue Rock Springs and Lake Herman Road. Lake Herman Road, Yeah,

285
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:59.039
Mogeaux that survived. But here's the thing that headlights. Yeah,

286
00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:03.480
the headlights are are blasting towards the car and pitch darkness. Right,

287
00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.160
so he's got headlights, he's not going to see Jack

288
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.559
walking up on him, and he's not going to really

289
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.920
see Jack at all because Jack is shining a flashlight

290
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.480
into the car right into his eyes, right because that's

291
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:17.599
what he's using at that particular point in time.

292
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.960
Sol also had multiple layers of clothing on which I've

293
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.079
found odd.

294
00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.359
Very odd. And of course the fact that he claims

295
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.480
to have looked up and back as the assailant was

296
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.279
getting into the car, so the light inside the car

297
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.359
gave him a visual of what the person looked like.

298
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.680
I just don't know if somebody attacked me, if i'd

299
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.240
have the wherewithal to even raise my head, what am

300
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.519
I asking to get? Like, Oh, you're not dead yet,

301
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.480
come back, let me kill you, Like I don't know

302
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:56.559
about you, but I'm playing dead, no doubt. I'm certainly

303
00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.839
not looking up to see if I can make an identification,

304
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:00.680
because witnesses don't survive.

305
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.039
It doesn't make sense.

306
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.880
So that's where that age range comes from. Is Migeaux.

307
00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:11.119
I believe according to the description given by Heartnell, the

308
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.680
attacker was wearing dark clothing shoulder length. Shoulder length. You guys,

309
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.440
and I want you to keep in mind Dennis's hood

310
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:20.920
or Jack's hood that was found in the PA system.

311
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.480
It stopped at the shoulders with a cutoff a shoulder

312
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:34.279
length hood with holes for eyes, glasses and clip on glasses.

313
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:39.000
Which showed through the hood. He flaunted the gun sight

314
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.319
emblem on the on the hood where it came over

315
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:47.240
his chest. So once again we're talking about exactly what

316
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.599
what Dennis found in that PA system. It stopped at

317
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.039
the shoulders and it went down the chest with the

318
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:59.799
emblem obviously on the chest. Let's see said he said

319
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.839
he had had escaped from Deer Lodge State Prison, Montana

320
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:10.400
and had killed a guard during his escape. However, the

321
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:16.400
story was checked by authorities and proved false. So of course,

322
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.000
I mean, he also said he needed money to get

323
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.599
to Mexico, and he never went to Mexico, but Mexico

324
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.200
was kind of a common theme that we were hearing

325
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.880
throughout these communications.

326
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:30.000
Why is he if he plans to kill him, why

327
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:32.400
is he giving him this erroneous information?

328
00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:34.279
All?

329
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:42.559
Oh, we've got Linds Mack today. Good morning, Lindsay. Hey, Hey,

330
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:48.200
yes I can. We're covering an old article, but I

331
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.799
found some interesting information in it. So I'm just reading

332
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:53.880
through that just to sift out what it was that

333
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:58.759
I found. So Park rangers Sergeant White was the first

334
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:02.799
to reach the couple after Park headquarters was notified of

335
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:06.960
their injuries, and I'm ad. I mean some of these

336
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.160
words you cannot read. What's that?

337
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:12.880
Yeah, it looks a little blurry.

338
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:17.079
It's very blurre. It's very hard. Fisherman Ronald Bong of

339
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:20.640
San Francisco, with his nine year old son, pulled his

340
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:25.319
boat into an inlet near the isolated shore line about

341
00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.119
six thirty pm. He cut his motor and in the

342
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.440
silence heard cries from heart Now. He pulled his boat

343
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.559
to within twenty yards of the shore and saw the

344
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.960
couple bloodied and crying out that they had been stabbed

345
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.319
and robbed. Fearing trickery. I don't know how much he

346
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:45.160
got away with because I felt like he didn't take anything.

347
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.160
So what did he want? Change keys? I don't know

348
00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:53.640
what were they robbed of. Fearing trickery, Fong headed to

349
00:22:54.279 --> 00:23:00.599
Rancho Monticella to sorry Rancho Monticello to alert these park

350
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:09.200
rangers ladin Land or I don't know Lynd and White

351
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.480
were summoned. So I wanted to bring up the fact

352
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:15.559
that it talks about Monticello because we have the cheese

353
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.000
letter that discusses I know, we always giggle over the

354
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.160
Cheese letter because we don't really know if it's real

355
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.480
or not, and I can't find an image of it anymore.

356
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.400
It's clearly been taken down for whatever purpose. Tom boyit

357
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:33.119
decided it wasn't necessary, but definitely Discusss Monticello in the

358
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.960
progression of that letter. So I find it interesting that

359
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.799
we are seeing Monticello in one of the attacks, and

360
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.400
then there's a communication that was deemed a hoax or

361
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.039
taken down, or maybe it was just a hoax. Tom

362
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:45.920
boyd and his crew was trying to pull on Dennis

363
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:52.400
and I. It says that let's see free self. White

364
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.759
said when he arrived at the scene, Heart and All

365
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:58.400
had freed himself from a rope which bound his hands

366
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:03.160
and had crawled about one hundred yards. Ranger Dennis Land

367
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:09.599
brought him back to where Miss Shepherd was basically writhing

368
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.720
in agony. White and Land wrapped a couple of blankets

369
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:23.559
and attempted to quiet someone while waiting for an ambulance.

370
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.000
While White said he kept them talking in an effort

371
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.599
to keep their minds off their pain and also to

372
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:34.359
obtain information for the Sheriff's office, He said they said

373
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:39.519
they were seated near shore on their picnic when suddenly

374
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.799
a man with a hood over his space and an

375
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.000
automatic pistol in his hand, came toward them. The hooded

376
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.319
man said he was an ex con from Colorado and

377
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.279
wanted a car and money. Hartnell said he only had

378
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.039
seventy five cents. So this is what I'm saying, Why

379
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.920
did they call it robbery? He had seventy five cents,

380
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:02.799
but he did have a car, and he gave the

381
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.839
man the keys for his car and told him it

382
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.599
was up the road. White recalled. So I'm not sure

383
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:12.160
if those keys were ever located again, or if that

384
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.759
was one of the clues or trophies that the Zodiac

385
00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:19.839
took and was in fact missing and never seen again.

386
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.240
I'm not sure what that was ended up being. It

387
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.160
says both tied. The man said, I have to tie

388
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:30.160
you up. I have to here's that statement again, I

389
00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:32.039
have to tie you up, I have to kill you.

390
00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:37.599
Bates had to die. He had some plastic clothesline cut

391
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.000
into Now this plastic clothes line is where Sandy Betz

392
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.920
comes in talking about the clothes line, and we've seen

393
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.920
clothesline use definitely in some of these crimes.

394
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.079
He showed us some clothesline that.

395
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:56.799
Way right and pre cut, and Charles mentioned that Jack

396
00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:01.000
used to carry pre cut cord in his trunk of

397
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.480
his vehicle that was not big enough to tie anything

398
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.880
down other than probably a person. He said, I think

399
00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.799
about two to three feet long pieces of this white cord,

400
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:20.200
this right cut into Oh, this actually gives I can't

401
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:24.480
see the number cut into so many foot strips which

402
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.599
he tied them with, so it's not I can't really

403
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:35.000
make out what that word says. Cut into something foot one, two, three,

404
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.559
I don't know, foot strips which he tied them with

405
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.599
their hands behind their backs and then between their legs,

406
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.920
so he hog tied them. And we know Jack's you know,

407
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:53.319
affinity for hogs. After killing all those ones, then the

408
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.720
man said, I'm going to have to stab you people.

409
00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:02.240
I'm going to have to once again. Heartnell said, please.

410
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:03.519
Me.

411
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:09.920
First, I'm chicken. I couldn't stand to see her stabbed.

412
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.920
The man told him, I'll do just that. He stabbed

413
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:16.440
Heartnell until he passed out. The poor girl, she just

414
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:21.960
has to watch. Then he knifed her until she fainted.

415
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.279
When he stabbed Heartnell, it was deliberate. When he stabbed

416
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:31.720
the girl, he laughed in a frenzy. White told or

417
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:35.240
White said, Heartnell told him he said, Miss Shepherd was

418
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.559
writhing on the ground in agony and kept pleading with

419
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.079
him to give her something to kill the pain or

420
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:47.799
knock her out, while White, who was who has patrolled

421
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.000
the lake for ten years, described the scene as unbelievable.

422
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.880
I've seen a lot of things people cut by boat

423
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:58.720
blades and such, but never anything like these two nice

424
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:04.039
kids cutting pieces, he told a Times Herald reporter. Cut

425
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:08.640
into pieces. I'm not sure if that was just sensationalism.

426
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.559
No, they were stabbed. They weren't cut into pieces.

427
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:13.359
I know.

428
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:18.640
So again with the news the assailants termed a psychopathic

429
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.440
killer by authorities called apartment what's that.

430
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:29.839
Name? Huh? If you read a.

431
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:36.200
Couple I get a couple words from lindsay. So. He

432
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.279
called the Dapple police department about seven thirty pm and said,

433
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.440
I want to report a murder or a double murder.

434
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.640
There are two miles. They are two miles north of

435
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.319
park headquarters. They were in a white Volkswagen Karmagia. And

436
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.240
then he didn't hang up the phone. In a quiet voice,

437
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:58.960
he added, I'm the one that did it. The dispatcher

438
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.880
heard the phone put down but not hung back up

439
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.279
on the receiver. The call came from a payphone with

440
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:16.640
a two five to five prefix, believed to be at

441
00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:23.240
the Napa, California Wash. Fingerprints taken from the phone booths

442
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:27.160
are being checked for identification. The message written on the

443
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:33.279
karma Gillo was uh was the most apparent clue it

444
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:40.000
I think it's his clue is the Valeo slays. Written

445
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.079
on the white it says white but right door with

446
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:49.240
a black felt pen were dates of the two Valayo shootings,

447
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.720
December twentieth and July fourth, along with the date of

448
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:58.839
the bury Us attack at the time five pm. The

449
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.279
message was signed with a crossed it's going to be

450
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:10.079
the cross circle obviously used to represent yeah, used to

451
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:13.400
represent now, I like there's this they say, used to

452
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:18.000
represent the crosshairs in a telescope gun sight. Sheriff investigators

453
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:20.359
removed the door from the vehicle and brought it to

454
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:26.559
the Sheriff's department for examination. Who that was a hard one, Goodness,

455
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:27.880
I had to strain.

456
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.680
To me, which is the key evidence? Is the writing

457
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.119
on the car door with reference to the other verters,

458
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:38.400
the dates.

459
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:44.920
Right, You want to clearly yeah, he wants to be

460
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.240
known for what it is that he's doing. That's for sure.

461
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.920
But that description of the hood was pretty much just,

462
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.880
you know, straightforward. It stopped at the shoulders, as it

463
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.720
is the one that that that Jack having the PA system.

464
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.680
It donned the gun sight symbol on the front of

465
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:02.960
it that came down the chest, and it's square ish,

466
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.480
not square on top, but square ish instead of being

467
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.279
I'm guessing rounded or pointed as some executioner hoods are.

468
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.319
I did find some additional handwriting I thought was interesting

469
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.759
because it obviously gives us more to look at. Jack

470
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.039
does definitely seem to have many different ways that he

471
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.559
can write. I want to see. Let's see. So this

472
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.000
one is to Gary. It's now Monday, two pm and

473
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.160
we should be out of here in another hour, so

474
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.720
should be there tomorrow morning. Sometime I'm confused by the

475
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:39.319
note because it sounds like he's writing a letter that's

476
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:42.440
not going to make it to the location before he does,

477
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:45.440
because he says he's going to be there tomorrow morning.

478
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.359
The radiator didn't hold. Had to take it to a

479
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.599
radiator shop this morning and get it repaired. He had

480
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.680
to put a strip of metal over the crack and

481
00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.000
solder it. We are going through Carson City on through

482
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.720
Highway fifty to Interstate fifteen, then eighty nine to flag Staff.

483
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.200
So we should be there when you get home from

484
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:11.160
work Tuesday evening. Take care, be good. But then he

485
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:19.559
crosses out be good, et cetera. Love unk. I hope

486
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.039
I knew that was bound to happen. I might very

487
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.680
well be my mama coming on all right, So per

488
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:29.519
Steven do her real quick.

489
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:33.480
On my last slide, there was a number underneath John Terrence.

490
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:37.480
Was that a social Security number or purportedly?

491
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:41.400
And of course we see him now using John once again. Yeah,

492
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:43.160
I don't know what the deal is with this man

493
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.400
going back and forth as though he doesn't know who

494
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:51.599
he is. Well, yeah, one minute he's John, the next

495
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.920
minute he's Jack, you know, then he's whomever. I mean,

496
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:59.480
he's used so many different aliases, per Steven do Her spook.

497
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.240
In two thousand, a DNA sample was taken from Chub

498
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:05.559
Chubb's cheek. So we had some questions about the DNA

499
00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:08.240
and I said, I didn't recall clearly. These are my

500
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:12.160
notes from back in twenty ten to twenty thirteen, so

501
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:16.039
it's what I knew at that time. DNA sample was

502
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:19.200
taken from Chubb's cheek by FBI agents from San Antonio

503
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.599
as he lay uncomprehensibly in a rust home. The FBI

504
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:25.759
thought it possible that it would be an important key

505
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.039
to the puzzle, a piece that showed where the other

506
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:31.559
parts fit. Chubbs was Jack's last living relative who shared

507
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.799
the mitochondrial genes of Jack's mother and Chubb's sister Na.

508
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.440
It would it would be the same DNA pattern that

509
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.119
Jack would have carried in his hair. And then I wrote,

510
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.000
why did the FBI engage the handwriting and everything Dennis

511
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.559
threw at them, including the hood if it wasn't a match?

512
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.200
So if they did this in two thousand and eight,

513
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:54.200
why did they continue to patronize DNIS clear into many

514
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:57.599
of my reports? I gave something like four of them, right,

515
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.440
So if it wasn't a match, and I'm sure they

516
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.559
wouldn't have given maybe they did give Dennis that information

517
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:07.759
and the YouTube responder was correct, and there was some

518
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.000
sort of a match to a nephew or something like

519
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:13.840
that on one of the letters that would have led

520
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:17.360
the FBI to to continue into this investigation and seeking

521
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:20.599
out information on Jack. Yahuse here we are eight years later.

522
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:30.360
I hear you now keat morning. So, yeah, what happened

523
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.400
to this source of DNA? Was it ran? Was it

524
00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:36.000
putting codis? I do remember recall the FBI saying they

525
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.360
couldn't put Jack's DNA into COTIS because he wasn't a criminal,

526
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.760
which is clearly untrue based on the three different indictments

527
00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.679
that he had and won was assault with a deadly weapon,

528
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.360
including probation. So why it wasn't his I mean, when

529
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:54.599
did we start taking people's DNA As a matter of fact,

530
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:56.119
I do not know.

531
00:34:56.519 --> 00:35:01.840
But yeah, a record record.

532
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:04.239
Yeah, But the thing is, is it even when you

533
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.800
ran his background reports, because his record were under different

534
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.280
versions of his it wasn't his name. When you run

535
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.239
a background on him, you don't see that he has

536
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:22.079
any arrests or convictions. Okay, well, so strange that even

537
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:26.159
focus on the SFPD in two thousand. Oh okay, So

538
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.719
we focus on the SFPD in two thousand and they're

539
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.559
botching of Jack's DNA supplied on an envelope by Dennis

540
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:37.760
to the FBI and subsequently to the SFPD. January two

541
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.719
thousand and nine, this is when I'm contacted by Dennis Kaufman.

542
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.280
He at the time is in the hospital recovering from

543
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.079
an infection in his foot. And this is where I

544
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.239
basically wanted to start to tell my story in regards

545
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:52.719
to this case and how I got involved and what

546
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.519
it really meant. So Dennis couldn't get to me for

547
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:57.840
a little bit. Like I said, he was suffering from

548
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.159
an infection in his foot, partially due to diabetes, I'm sure,

549
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.239
and I was waiting for him to actually bring me

550
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:06.599
the handwriting. So I called my mentor at the time,

551
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.639
Bart Baggett. I was, I want to say, it was

552
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:13.599
probably about seven or eight months away from completing my

553
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:16.920
apprenticeship when I contacted him, and of course we had

554
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.079
a decent conversation on the phone. He told me to

555
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:21.719
take it on for entertainment value, but not to hold

556
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.400
too much into it because he was working himself on

557
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:28.800
a particular suspect or should they say, the daughter of

558
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.519
a suspect that he was going to be writing a

559
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.119
book about and doing a documentary on. And he offered

560
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:37.119
to send me the zodiac letters because I had no

561
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.840
reference for them, I did not know where to obtain them,

562
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.480
or you know, I was assuming that I would get

563
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.480
the best versions from him, because he was very familiar

564
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.480
with the case he happened to be working on another suspect.

565
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:52.800
I didn't know at the time that he had actually

566
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.480
done episodes on America's Most Wanted with John Walsh and

567
00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:59.440
with Tom Void, or that he had patronized Tom Voyd,

568
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.800
but clearly that's probably where he got some of his

569
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:08.800
information from. Either way, he sent me the I want

570
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:10.760
to say it was the Melvin Belli letter, one of

571
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:13.800
the most disguised letters. I mean, of all the letters

572
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.880
that you would send to somebody, I wouldn't task that.

573
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.119
Maybe he gave it to me because I was an

574
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:22.400
apprentice and I was still new and hoping that I

575
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.400
wouldn't figure it out because it was so heavily disguised.

576
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.000
But it became clear that you could break it down,

577
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:29.559
and by the time I got to the bottom of

578
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.800
that letter, we started to see that author revert back

579
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:36.239
to some natural handwriting, and quite frankly, it was found

580
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:39.079
in Jack. So those characteristics that I was looking for,

581
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:42.320
such as the cursive O with a loop in the center,

582
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:45.280
all of these things could be found in Jack's printed

583
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.760
writing as well. And I want to say I stayed

584
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:49.960
up until about four o'clock in the morning even though

585
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.400
I had school the next day, probably even had a test.

586
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.679
Who knows. I was lucky to actually make it through

587
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:58.559
two degrees in psychology and legal assisting with a three

588
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:02.800
point eight seventy five while battling the enemies of the

589
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.280
Zodiac killer cases, because that's literally what it felt like.

590
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:09.800
But I stayed up til four in the morning, and

591
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.920
I found more than twenty significant and I would say

592
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:17.880
fine slash subtle traits that an individual would use in

593
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:21.840
handwriting that was consistent between Jack and the Zodiac. So

594
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.239
I was desperate to get more handwriting from Dennis. Dennis

595
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.559
was desperate to have me look at his website and

596
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:31.599
the evidence that he had collected and put together. I

597
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.159
withheld from doing that until I could complete the handwriting examination.

598
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.599
And then once I completed that and identified Jack as

599
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.679
the possible author of these documents, so actually not possible,

600
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.360
I identified him as the author of the Zodiac letters, and

601
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:52.239
then the pressure was starting to be applied. Dennis really

602
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.599
badly wanted me to climb onto CBS thirteen News to

603
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:59.920
render my opinion on the news. Bart Baggett did not

604
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.519
want me to do such a thing. He actually came

605
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.320
back and said the writing is too large. You it's

606
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.960
not the same author. He also made a statement, well,

607
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:11.519
Jack was just a security guard. There's no way he

608
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:14.519
could have perpetrated these crimes. Well, we have found out

609
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:17.079
since then. Jack is so much more than just the

610
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:18.679
security guard.

611
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:24.280
What's in it for Baggett to just cut your theory

612
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:24.800
on Jack?

613
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:30.440
Well, when I started, well no, when I started the school,

614
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.159
he was based out of Texas, and he had said,

615
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:35.320
you have all of California. You know, you're going to

616
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.360
be one of the very few, the only one in

617
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:39.960
the school in California that's going to be your area.

618
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.599
Inside of ten months, all of a sudden, he and

619
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.159
Beth both moved to the Los Angeles area, which I

620
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:48.559
couldn't make any sense of. You if you hadn't been

621
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:51.400
planning to make this move and it happened last minute,

622
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.920
at what point would you have, you know, stated to me,

623
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:58.599
guess what, I'm moving into California and half the business

624
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.960
is now going to be gone kind of situation. I

625
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:05.880
think that because he was working on Debora Perez and

626
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.960
he had plans for, like I said, a documentary and

627
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:11.559
to write a book, that this was going to be

628
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:16.719
a money making source for him. So he was upset

629
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.079
that I wanted to come out and tell him give

630
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.039
my opinion on CBS thirteen News, which at the time,

631
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:25.440
when you're an apprentice and you're under contract with the school.

632
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.480
I paid him something like fifty percent of my fees

633
00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:33.679
to peer review any work that I did, and it

634
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.119
wouldn't matter what I thought about the handwriting. If his

635
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.599
opinion differed from mine, I had to release his opinion,

636
00:40:40.840 --> 00:40:46.360
not mine. That was the contract. Dennis, however, could Yeah.

637
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.480
Dennis however, couldn't afford to pay, so there was technically

638
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.199
no contract. So we had a loophole there. And even

639
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:57.559
though bart Baggott had at first he tried to intimidate

640
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.039
me by telling me not to release my opinion, and

641
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.960
then he went so far as to say I would

642
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.159
be kicked out of the school, I would lose my tuition.

643
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:06.679
So I was like physically sick to my stomach for

644
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.920
a week. I'm seven or eight months away from finishing

645
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.280
my apprenticeship and this case that I didn't even ask for,

646
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:16.920
that's dropped in my lap and I'm just seeing the

647
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:19.840
truth and the evidence should cost me, you know, my

648
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.079
twelve thousand dollars in commission or cost me my right

649
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:26.199
to finish becoming a document examiner. I mean, none of

650
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:31.320
it seemed truly fair. Of course, I was then contacted

651
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.960
by his so his suspect was guy Ward Hendrickson, because

652
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:38.800
Deborah Perez claimed that she was the daughter of him.

653
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:42.280
That Bart Baggett said to me, she showed the genetic

654
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.239
predisposition to write like the Zodiac. She was in possession

655
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:48.559
of Paul Stein's glasses, there was a few she had

656
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.320
the hood. I got to hear all of this evidence

657
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.880
she purportedly had in this case when she turned out

658
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.519
to be a phony all the way around. And I

659
00:41:56.599 --> 00:42:02.599
was contacted by Jan Hendrick and she asked me to

660
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:06.199
do an examination on her father's handwriting, which I did,

661
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.719
and there's no way he wrote any of the zodiac letters,

662
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.880
absolutely not. And then she gave me the family background,

663
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:14.559
which was to include the fact that Deborah Perez was

664
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.840
adopted her and I think four siblings or something were

665
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.599
adopted by Jan's father, who married, I guess, and brought

666
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:26.239
the mother, who lived in Mexico with these kids on

667
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.719
a dirt floor, as the story's told, brought them to

668
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.960
the United States to give them a better life. And

669
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.960
here's Deborah Perez trying to tarnish this man's name. But

670
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.519
she's not genetically even really related, so there's no genetic predisposition,

671
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:42.199
you know.

672
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:46.719
I mean, at most her fifteen minutes of.

673
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:50.360
Fame, she got a lot more than fifteen minutes that

674
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:52.960
news story with. I mean, she's she stood on the

675
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:57.000
steps of the chronicle with her disbarred attorney as her

676
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:01.320
publisher or promoter, whatever you call those people.

677
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:06.280
Was that.

678
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.679
Anyway? So yeah, on the steps of the chronicle, you

679
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.760
got to see Sandy Betts there. You know, everybody turned

680
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:19.000
out and showed up. It was a nice little crowd.

681
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:21.800
That story went, I'm sure all over the world. It

682
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:25.760
was everywhere. And then purportedly she was given something like

683
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.039
a hundred hours I don't know if that was true.

684
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.400
Once again, but given one hundred hours by the San

685
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.239
Francisco PD and investigating her bull bs who I was

686
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:39.079
about to cuss because that makes me angry. And so

687
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:41.320
they gave her all of this time only to have

688
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:43.639
her deemed a fraud in the end, and she went

689
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:46.519
away in the ether just as quick as any any

690
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.960
other person has when it comes to having made an

691
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.880
identification or claiming that their dad did. Dennis never went

692
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.039
into the ether. Dennis never just popped up for a

693
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:59.360
year or so, made a big hubub and fell off

694
00:43:59.400 --> 00:43:59.800
the face.

695
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:00.000
Of the earth.

696
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:04.599
This man collectively worked for almost I think thirteen fourteen

697
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.119
years on attempting to show and support the evidence that

698
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.840
Jack had that made him the best suspect for the

699
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:13.679
Zodiac Killer, whereas all of these other people were kind

700
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:18.599
of a fly in, fly out kind of thing. So

701
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.679
let's see here we've had. We talked about Chris Pickele,

702
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.800
We talked about Bart, Deborah pres Oh. In the long run,

703
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:27.480
when it came right down to it, about a week

704
00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.480
after I was threatened that I could lose my apprenticeship

705
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:33.639
and my fees to the school, I was informed by

706
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.559
Bart that because Dennis didn't pay me, that that didn't

707
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.760
did it didn't preclude me from giving my opinion in

708
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:45.719
that matter, since there was no contract basically between him,

709
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:49.199
I and Dennis, because Dennis couldn't afford to pay me

710
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:51.199
and I was basically doing the work for free, so

711
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.719
that meant that I could release my opinion. And he

712
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:55.719
gave me that phone call. Like I said, about a

713
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.480
week after telling me that I could be kicked out,

714
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.199
so I'm sick to my stomach for a week, and

715
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:01.960
then I hear from him that Nope, go ahead and

716
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:06.360
give it and guess what, no book, no documentary. Often

717
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:12.039
to the ether, just like everybody else. Stephen Doohurst did

718
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:13.960
pretty much the same thing. Like I said, when he

719
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.119
decided to keep the roles of film, him and Dennis

720
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:18.639
had a falling out. I haven't talked to Janis in

721
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:20.920
a long time. I know that she moved a few times.

722
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:23.239
I kept in contact with Christmas cards and stuff with

723
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.400
her over the years. I want to say it's been

724
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:26.920
a couple of years since I talked to her, but

725
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.159
it was definitely after I started the podcast. She was

726
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:34.679
having some health issues. We dealt with Harry Phillips. Everybody's

727
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:36.880
heard me talk about that phone call when I asked

728
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:40.760
why Jack's DNA wasn't ran for the twenty on twenty

729
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:44.719
episode with Arthur Lee Allen and all these other suspects.

730
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.920
Eight suspects to include most of the fake suspects that

731
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:53.440
are found on vot's website was excluded for possible DNA matches.

732
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:59.719
Aphrodity Jones. She came in twenty ten twenty eleven to

733
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:05.920
film the Investigation Discovery episode of True Crimes on the

734
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.440
Zodiac Killer. She made a comment at the end of

735
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:14.280
her episode that her contacts at the FBI confirmed the

736
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:19.559
handwriting was a match. She says this in that actual episode. Now,

737
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.400
Tom Voy and his crew then flipped that on the

738
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:24.599
message board and tried to say that Dennis and I

739
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:28.800
were her FBI contacts. No, we're not the FBI contacts,

740
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.719
nor did we ever tell anybody the FBI said, I've

741
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:38.000
been nothing honest about the supposed opinion letter, which was ridiculous.

742
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:40.480
I've never seen anything written so short and sweet on

743
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.679
anybody's handwriting that said Jack may have written it, Jack

744
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:48.079
may not have written it. Yeah, I've been nothing more

745
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.920
than honest about that. So I know that when they

746
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:56.239
try to accuse Aphrodite Jones of stating that her contacts

747
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:59.079
from the FBI were Dennis and I, that he's just dumb.

748
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:01.920
They're dumb. They're just looking to muddy up the waters

749
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.760
and make us look like we're the ones telling her.

750
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.960
She's not gonna believe us, she's not going to take

751
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:10.480
our words for it, and I'm sure that she's all

752
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.480
up there in hollyweird with all of these true crimes.

753
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:17.679
She has contacts, probably in law enforcement all over the

754
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:23.519
United States. Would I wouldn't doubt we delivered. Let's see,

755
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:27.320
we delivered information or negatives to Mitsy Roberts at the

756
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.119
LAPD in the Black doll You case that poof often

757
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:32.880
to the ether. Not only did we lose some of

758
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:36.679
the negatives as well, but Mitsy Roberts was told not

759
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:39.920
to investigate Jack as a suspect. So I don't know

760
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:43.000
if LAPD was just done wasting any money on this case,

761
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.000
but it sounds to me like that's a pretty harsh

762
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:50.119
way to say screw you to all the victims' family members.

763
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:58.280
Yes, wasn't Mitsy Roberts kind of enthusiastic at firstshed it?

764
00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:01.280
Yes, she was very, very interested. In fact, when she

765
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:04.320
received the position in cold cases, she made the comment,

766
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:08.840
like myself, when I watched the Jake Gillenhall version of

767
00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:11.039
The Zodiac Killer, she said, Oh, I'm gonna solve the

768
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.719
Black Dollia case. She goes, I had no reason to

769
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.320
believe that I would, but I said this out loud

770
00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.280
to my friends and everybody. But that's kind of the

771
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.440
same thing I did with the Zodiac I was like, oh,

772
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:24.440
my god, they didn't figure out who it was. They

773
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.079
didn't solve it. What in the world, I totally can

774
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.360
solve this case. And I had no business saying that either,

775
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:32.639
because I had no idea and I certainly wasn't a

776
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.320
document examiner in two thousand and seven when I saw it.

777
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.960
We have dealt with let's see, Oh, we're down to

778
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.639
about the last minute. Okay, so I'm going to hold

779
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.239
up on continuing with that. Is there anything else that

780
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:47.639
you would like to add. We'll just continue on with

781
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:49.599
my story when we come back, and all the things

782
00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:54.920
that we've gone through sounds good to me. Awesome, powesome.

783
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:58.119
So anything fun planned for today? Oh?

784
00:48:58.360 --> 00:48:59.880
I think I'm gonna take the risk day off.

785
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:02.000
You're not going to Tahoe?

786
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:05.519
No, I was thinking about it. My buddy kind of

787
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.840
flaked on me. I was wondering, I don't want the

788
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:11.039
hotels go way up.

789
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:11.719
On the weekends.

790
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:16.760
Yes, they do, that is for sure.

791
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:18.639
But we played golf yesterday.

792
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:21.119
Oh did you win? Oh?

793
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:26.719
We just we don't really keep score. You both played well.

794
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:31.119
Though, good good? So you just basically you're playing against yourself, Kay,

795
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:32.280
just trying.

796
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.400
To improve, trying to make pars Bertie's lucky.

797
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.559
Oh my buddy almost had a hold one on the

798
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:41.400
first hole, not really lanted a foot from the hole.

799
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.000
Shut ah, that's an in your face moment.

800
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:46.920
Yeah no, he got a birdie.

801
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.519
Ah there but not there. All right, everybody, you have

802
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.239
a wonderful weekend. We will see you next Friday. Thank

803
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.840
you for being here again. Nolan Peace, Thank you.

804
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:08.079
And thanks for the use of your living room. Zaza Za,

805
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:17.719
you think like exam