Ramsey Murder Rocks the Nation

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0:52 Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac. I'd like to start by welcoming to the show. Nolan del Campo, Good morning everybody. Good morning, fabulous week out there, lots of rain, little sunshine. We're ready for fall and winter. It looks like, yes, we are. I know that we were going to get started here on some research that was continued and followed up from the phone numbers that were dialed out to Colorado from Jack's phone bill, and of course Lindsay had done some stellar research on that she was able to actually locate what these numbers went to, which I was kind of shocked over. And of course we're waiting for her to get on because I did not want to start without her.

1:46 There's a box says present, is that her? Hey, hey, good day, perfect timing, all right, okay, So Lindsey took it upon herself to throw these phone numbers into a search system. Now, what is this search system that you use? Is cyber background checks dot com? Cyber background checks dot com? Does that cost money? If you want a thorough search, then yeah, but you can do a basic search on there for free. But I'd pay the monthly whatever fee it is. I think it's only like sixty nine or something like that.

2:29 Really, I could probably use something like that, especially with the numerous amount of phone numbers that I've gotten here. So cyber background checks dot com. Huh, I think I could write that off minute? Oh I can, Yes, we can. Ha. We do hear what she found? I mean, like. Literally, I was pretty stoked. I'm very impressed with what she got here, all right. So she ran the numbers the three oh three four nine four four seven seven four. I think that ultimately you determined that what I found that was calling in for the accuracy on. Time, correct, yep? Okay. And then the second number was the three zero three six three seven six nine two, And of course I did go back and look at Jack's records to notice that he also dialed a six one nine one, which came up in your search. During the search for this, you show that this area code covers Denver, Aurora, Arvada, Westminster, and Boulder. And at first I thought to myself, like, wow, like Boulder, Colorado, you mean we're we're about ready to step into this whole John Bane Ramsey thing, like this is a little crazy, but it looks to me like it might be wrapping out to something completely different. So we're going to cover what it was that she found. So, hello, I guess I need to get to my presentation.

3:50 There we go. Now it works all right. So you found that these phone numbers led back to actual articles and newspapers. Correct, yep, the first one you found was bring Big Spring, Harold, and that is an article date of May thirty first, nineteen ninety six. While some of this writing is just so small, I laughed because one of the first things I saw on there was actually a cartoon. Of I'm not Bob, I'm not Bill campaign ninety six. So far it says clearly one is Bill Clinton. Who's the other guy? Goal?

4:37 Goal goal? Now what were they running for? What was the King in ninety Oh okay, yeah, tells you how much I like you Clinton, Sam Yah. Yeah, And I certainly didn't vote for him, so I don't even recall. But yeah, So that was a very interesting little article there, and some of the other articles that I found, and I'm just going to breathe through them. I'm not going to read them. A fellow's conviction overturned because he understood his sentence. This was a child molester. Basically, he had committed some child crimes and he had pled guilty, and in his actual sentencing, his attorney read to him the sentences that he could possibly receive by admitting to this plea of guilty. And then it was ultimately overturned and he was released because they said the judge didn't read those sentences to him, that his attorney dead, and that somehow that was piled play by the court.

5:35 The court should have read it. But either way, he got off and he was released, set free. Do they try him though they read charge and retri. I couldn't, but he was pleading guilty, so there was no trial, right. But that's the technicality. The judges are supposed to read the. Advisor, Okay, but it wasn't for lack of him knowing what his potential sentence. Obviously, Also, if the DA did not object, the d should. Have objected, the judge should have. If it was the judges. Judge, Yeah, that was just it was bad lawyering and judging. But at the same time, that's harmless error if he understood.

6:19 But as long as you review the word for word advisors and they're the same thing, the judge would have read. But that's that's what they call it technicality. That's a stupid technicality. So from what I can tell, and to me, I thought to myself, like, honestly, was that something pre planned? You know me? Yeah, I would think in most jurisdictions, well in California anyway, that they would be recharged or retried. I just know that so many times in the courtroom when an attorney tries to tell the judge what his job is or tries to object to something that is obviously the judge's job to make make a decision on that, judge loves to slam these attorneys and say, hey, that's my job. That's why I sit here, that's why I get the big money, right right, I'm the gatekeeper. I get to make those decisions. Blah blah blah. Either way, it was just an interesting article. And then we of course had this gentleman border he was actually a colonel in the military. He supposedly committed suicide over some stupid questions in regards to two little bows that he was wearing for some service that he had done, and they claimed that he wasn't in active battle when he was in fact on a ship, because I believe he was Navy.

7:40 Either way, it's a very suspicious death surrounding this guy supposedly committing suicide as a colonel in the military because somebody questioned whether or not he should be wearing ribbons that attributed to him being. In active combat. I thought that is the most ridiculous reason for suicide I've ever heard in my life. Anyways, had to share that, especially. If he was deemed to be in combat. If he was on ship during the combat, then technically he is involved in combat. He may not be like pulling a trigger or being exposed to gunfire or weaponry, but he's at war at that point. Basically, why couldn't those ships be blown up just like any other ship? I mean, technically speaking, if you're where the freaking war is. You have a potential for being blown up, whether you're on land or at sea.

8:30 Yeah, but again back to your point, it seems like it's unless it was true. The allegations were true, and he got to embarrass so badly that he was trying to say something that wasn't true. But from what I'm hearing, it was true. So why did you clear yourself over that? And what I really picked up from the article, which really kind of it just fits in with what I've been saying about media weaponizing themselves against people, is that it appears as though this was whole this was a I gotcha type media project of we're going to defame and you know, denounce you and make you look bad.

9:16 But even then, nothing was so bad that somebody would want to commit suicide over it. However, we're seeing the media actively use weaponizing themselves against individuals, obviously to either tarnish their record or to bring them down or to do something. And ultimately they claim this guy committed suicide, but it possibly could have been suicided, and this is just the story or the background that they've put together in order to facilitate their narrative. Another article that was extremely interesting to me was a murder attempting cartel hierarchy shows rules changing around Cali and the bottom line is still showing Columbia is the head of cocaine and and cartels, and we have people, you know, killing people and taking people out and again killing family members, which is going to bring us to something else that you've researched, Lindsay on the Routier case we're going to be talking about here in a few minutes. But aside from that, I did find that you your research showed that the ad that we're about to talk about that shows that phone number that Jack called came out in four different newspapers, one in Indiana, one in Kentucky. I know that this only includes Port Arthur, Texas, but we clearly see that it did run in a newspaper for Big Springs, Texas as well, and then Laurel, Mississippi, on the Laurel Leader newspaper.

10:44 None of these did I find consistent with any of the other newspapers. Did a little research on the Big Springs. It didn't look like it was anything ever owned by Hurst, so I was trying to see if there was any tie in there as to why or May and we see this one on March thirty or yeah, March May thirty first, and Jack makes the phone calls on June tenth, which is obviously four days after the Rootier escapade and at least after the point I can I can think of. So what I'm trying to read here is that in Indiana it ran the eighth through the fourteenth. That's what that's indicating, right, Yeah, no, quick on the.

11:25 Out side, the author of the columnst was Mike Roykok and he used to run in the bad Now. I don't know if he wrote to the b and now syndicated or the beat cart is syndicated column, but his column used to run. Into be Sacramento Bee Yeah huh, which is also where okay, all right, it was just a little yeah, a little side note Corbin, Kentucky. It ran May twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six through June fifteenth, but it didn't run on May twenty ninth and on June second, So it sounds to me like they paid for that ad run through that entire time. Port Arthur, Texas ran only May thirtieth, nineteen ninety six. June sixth and June thirteenth, so only three actual runs in Port Arthur, Texas and Laurel, Mississippi, ran from June first through June twenty first, but not on the second or eighth of June. So we now have a place where this phone number appears the Big Herald.

12:24 I kind of did a breakdown just to see where it's at. It indicated that it was only circulated within the let's see Howard County area of West Texas, which is approximately nine hundred square miles. We can see that that is literally up over in this direction. Jack is down here in the Sageen, Texas area based on the mail that we're looking at, which is approximately four hours and fifty two minutes away from it, with the closest drive to Big Springs, where this actual newspaper could have been picked up. So it kind of boggles me how Jack came across this newspaper article to begin with, since it was so far away.

13:08 Where did the officer Legensy commit suicide in Texas? Uh? It would have been Big Springs, so it will at least, yeah, at least, let's see, Jeremy Borda killed himself with a bullet to the chest. Now, not many people kill themselves with a bullet to the chest. I mean. Yeah. And there's little mystery as to why he did it. The Navy's tap man knew it was likely he would soon end his remarkable, remarkable career in embarrassment, shame, or even disgrace. How it doesn't even make any sense if he was given these ribbons. He was given these ribbons, and you have to get given them, right. You don't just give them to yourself, right, I hope so. But I'm any ribbons that you bear on your chest has been given to you by a superior officer somewhere.

14:00 I thought it worked. Let's see the reason. Until a year ago, he had worn two tiny ribbons on his chest that indicated he had been in combat in Vietnam. Military experts now differ as to whether he was entitled to wear these ribbons. Some say no because he had not been indirectly involved in combat, Others say yes because he served on ships that were in the combat zone, and others say maybe so it's it's the stupidest thing ever for anybody to have willingly committed suicide over I can't make out it is. It is coming up in the big Springs, Texas. So I'm thinking bored if fifty six was almost certain to be it on the media hot seat and wanted to stick it to Admiral Borda, maybe those who had an axe to grind, jealous colleagues or someone with a grudge.

14:47 So they're looking at it, you know, from very different ways as to why this even became a news But we know that the newspapers and the media love that whole we gotcha moment, whether it's true or not. Newsweek climbed on board. I see like all kinds of it says it was too juicy of a story for today's gotcha journalists to resist a man of prominence and achievement. Ah, but with a hidden and embarrassing secret and flaw makes no sense to me. Anyways. They trying to make it exciting, right, so they could be talking about somebody from a different area. But it ran in the Big Springs. Issue, needless to say, like we were saying, this article, or at least this particular newspaper was approximately three hundred and thirty one miles away from Jack And in the classified section, lindsay you found.

15:41 Tell us about this one. Ah. So so when I searched. When I first searched it up, I was like, I found like the several newspapers, but only certain ones as you stated. And then whenever, the first thing that caught my eye was the word secret, and I was like, wait, is this the number? Is this number under this? Because it had, you know, it pulls the number that I searched, and it highlights it, so like my eye immediately went there to secret, and I was like secret, secret banking, secret banking systems, Oh my god. And then I just was like stuck in that little. Rabbit hole for like a couple of hours or so, and I just started jotting every single thing down, like the dates that.

16:26 That this particular AD ran. And then, as you can see, with something odd about it, I thought was like, it's a twenty four hour recorded line with a pre recorded message reveals whatever you need to get this four thousand dollars to open this new bank account, to. Make this four thousand dollars. I guess, uh, they're trying to get you to open a bank account. It makes it sound to me it's okay. So the ad read secret banking systems, open bank accounts, make four thousand a day amazing twenty four hour free recorded message reveals details and it has two numbers, and both of these numbers can be found on Jack's bill. I took that to mean that they're asking people to assist in opening bank accounts for others. I mean, how many bank accounts does somebody need?

17:21 I think this is nobody's going to reply to that. I think it was a contact number for Jack. Yeah, I definitely thought it was a code. We were definitely definitely thinking in that direction because it's like I used to tell my dad, My dad was a huge get me on for all of these oh make thirty two thousand dollars a month doing blah blah blah. I'm like, Dad, if that were possible, wouldn't everybody do it? Nobody be working anymore, We'd all just hop into that bandwagon. We'd all make it happen. So, either this makes Jack look like less than the intelligent individual for reaching out to these individuals to make four thousand dollars a day. Oh, there's more. To this particular and it is listed in the classified its unless I remind you, we just got done talking about the fact that the cartel and the mafia and all of these people in the syndicate still exist in nineteen ninety six, and that the CIA and all of these other individuals actually used the classified newspapers to give messages back and forth. And we've actually seen that occur in the Zodiac case right where they're talking from the Oh gosh, I forgot the zodiac sign that was on it, but they were talking to the Zodiac in regards to other people, the masters and so forth in I believe this group of individuals. But yes, this was a very interesting fine, lindsay.

18:46 So I went ahead and I mapped that out. Port Arthur, Texas would have been another likely place because it's in Texas that Jack could have received it. So I ran those distances and literally from where Jack was at this is Port Arthur is three hours and thirty seven minutes away and two hundred and fifty miles if you drove straight through Highway ten all the way to Port Arthur, which really lines up against the border of Atlanta, Georgia, basically, which I've discussed before, the path that Jack would take was Highway ten in most cases. So I did one more search and I looked at it in relation to League City in Galveston, It's approximately an hour and twenty eight minutes away from League City in Galveston, so much closer obviously that the other location, but very far out there for Jack to have driven to have received, picked up or or you know, gotten this particular newspaper. And of course Port Arthur was a completely different newspaper it was. Oh, it didn't say which one. It just said Port Arthur, Texas.

19:49 So it didn't actually say what the newspaper was that ran it, so I couldn't check on that one either way. Very very interesting. Now this is the law of leader. This one ran in miss Missippi, so it clearly has. And so was this a reach out to four different members of the group. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, to tell you. That we're let them know and they would be able to decode. I mean, clearly Jack was a man of decoding if that message was received on the other end. So I went back and I looked to see how long Jack had actually spent on these particular phone calls. I want to say that on the let's see here.

20:31 Come on, Okay, Nope, that's time. I think you passed it, you do, I saw it. I think it was back further because it was June. Oh huh, you're right, yeah, yeah, see yeah, that's nineteen ninety five, ninety six, February YouTube there, No, that's cable bills. Nothing there, okay, right here. So on June tenth, there was three phone calls placed, and that means that he had to have gotten it from an at well, he either picked that newspaper up from somebody else that had sent it on to him after that date, because I don't believe that the dates actually coincide with the Texas runs, but we don't know when Big Springs actually ran it.

21:25 So he spent one minute on the phone message with sixty one nine one, So why turn around and called sixty one nine two. I would assume that they put two phone numbers in there if it were to be to compensate for several phone callers, right, if one was busy, you could. Call at that kind of thing. Yeah, So he did one minute at then sixty one nine one number. Then he did the six one ninety two and spent two minutes on it, and then he turned around and he called back. And this all happened between ten twenty six and eleven thirty pm on the tenth, So we did two minutes, and then he called back and spent another minute on the six one number. Why so many times if you got the information that you needed.

22:12 Again, writ it down. It wasn't what it was supposed to what it purported to be. That's my take. Anyway, Yeah, say that again. It was what the ad wasn't what it was purported to be. It was something else, and he was supposed to call it and get certain information, and he did. He did. He certainly he had to call both numbers. Yeah, yeah, even though that says or that may be an indication you need to call both to get exactly what it is that you need to get from it. Who knows? Yeah, code too, well, you know what. And let's err on the side of you know, Devil's advocate and say this was just a scam. Does that mean that we've been being scammed by people for a very.

22:58 Long time, ever forever? And I saw even more things that looked like scams inside that newspaper as I was reading the classifieds. I did actually. Download and print out the entire newspaper from Big Springs. So well that brings us to Oh and by the way, I did look up the dancing at relies. I do not know why that girl even put out there that I should even. Look at that. That literally was some type of ridiculousness where five people from out of the country had been temporarily held as being suspicious but were then released because they had nothing to do with the nine to eleven attacks. But then this conspiracy theory or the story came about about how they were dancing to the success of the nine to eleven events, which turned out to be completely false and untrue.

23:45 But you know, it's got to run its realm with everybody as far as conspiracies are concerned. So there was really nothing to take off of that. And I don't know why that person referred me to even look at that. That was the stupidest thing I ever read. Ah Well, because Israel had they think that had a partake into into the nine to eleven well. They want to try and say that that's where she got it from. Well but even then, so these people have been found to be innocent released. They were just tourists, right, They probably went back home, no big deal. Whatever they were doing probably had nothing to do with the nine to eleven events at all, Otherwise they wouldn't have been released and sent home. I mean I did watch that movie, like I said, where they held that one guy they that they thought had some information, not that he was part of but he had some information, and he was what held seven years in Guantanamo being tortured and beaten and sleep deprived and music blurring at him and all these things that we see on the Ozark Netflix series.

24:46 So if they would, they would have done that to these five, if they thought literally there was anything that they had to offer. Brown. Ah, that is crazy funny now what you led me to. However, Lindsay, on the other hand, literally bought up my entire morning this morning, because none of what we're about to share right now was even in my presentation until this morning. I thought I might as well take a look at this Darly Routier stuff and see what's going on. And I think that I vaguely remember back in whatever time frame, it was the sprain of the Silly String and everybody jumping on board against this woman who purportedly was appearing to have too much fun after her children had died.

25:34 I don't know about you, but I've been to several celebrations of life where we literally partied, had a great time, shared stories, laughed and giggled, and it was over the death of somebody like this is. And this was actually for his birthday because yeah, and that was like one of his favorite things to do at his parties with the silly string. So I mean, and if it was a celebration of life, like I mean in Mexico, that's. What they do at memorials. It they literally feast and spend time with each other and it's like a party, right and nobody. I mean, there's a funeral, there's a way, there's but the celebrates their life's of the person and the way they live their life.

26:21 And they wouldn't want to work. Right, And a birthday, a birthday is just that, a celebration of life. So and all the invitations and stuff had already went out for his party for that day, so they wanted to let the people that were invited to his party originally come to the grave site and literally celebrate in part and do like a little party for him. And I know, in the middle of some of my grief over people having passed, I've had my moments of laughter, giggles and otherwise, And it seems to be some way for solace or to you know, alleviate some of that paid and grief that's going on in your heart to give you a moment of positivity. And it is not a bad thing by any means. So I wanted to talk about Darley Rutier because I am more interested in her husband now than I thought I ever could be too.

27:15 WHOA, Okay, I'm glad you said that. So she's basically sentenced to death for the murder of one son and has not actually been to trial for the second son at this point, which really makes no sense. Basically, they she claimed to have fallen asleep on the couch and the kids had done a sleepover with her downstairs. Her husband and the youngest child were upstairs. This all really kind of sounds really familiar to some of the cases that we've talked about where others were in the house and claim to have not heard a thing while somebody was being murdered. So we know that this is possible because it's happened more than once throughout our presentation.

27:56 I'm just a little confused on her injuries, because nowhere could I find that she said she engaged this particular intruder or fought with him. So I'm a little discombobulated on that, but hopefully you can enlighten me, because, like I said, I haven't had a lot of time. They are appealing again and they're running DNA tests since in twenty eighteen, I did not find any information in regards to the completion of these tests or what they surmised. We know that they're wondo. It and how that just blows me. We're solving crimes like DeAngelo and you know, as of recently some more based on DNA and it's taking how long since twenty eighteen to get these DNA tests done.

28:36 This is a little. Disgusting as far as I'm concerned. This test should have been ran immediately. If this woman is innocent, she doesn't belong spending another day in prison, just like Peter Wilson. Now, from what I can grab from the scene is that they indicated there was a thumbprint on an end table that did not match any of the family members. However, one forensic technician had indicated that he could not exclude the ring finger of Darlee as being the print that was there. Now, not being able to rule somebody out is different than being able to make an identification, and this kind of lousy forensic testifying that we saw in Peter Wilson case is really what I'm reading has gone down in this particular case as well. So basically, on June sixth of nineteen sixty six, she goes to sleep at two thirty one in the morning, she's dialing nine to one one. She happens to be the one that calls the police. I don't know if I could literally commit a crime such as that and then turn around and call the police. But some of the evidence that's is really disturbing me, as this sock with blood on it that is a match to the blood from the family that was found seventy five yards outside of the house, and it is indicated there's no possible way for her to have left the scene of the crime while on the phone with the impending death of the second son, who purported only would have lasted eight minutes bleeding out in the manner in which he was stabbed, and she was on the phone with nine to one one for

30:06 six of those minutes, so that would have left her two minutes to literally jog two hundred and twenty five feet down the road, drop a soft drog back two hundred and twenty five feet and then they claimed she cleaned herself up at the kitchen sink. Did she really? I'm really trying, I'm trying to suck all this down, but I'm having a hard time. What did you look at the photos of the sink, It clearly does not look like she was cleaning up. It clearly looks like she was in there, like trying to get away or trying to get some towels for the boys to cover their wounds, because apparently she had some dish rags in there and that's what she would win in there for. And then if you look at the same photo of the sink, it literally looks like she was searching for something. So it's clear go here, Yeah, she was going over there to get some dish towels to cover up the wounds and try to, you know, do whatever she can for the boys while.

31:05 Weapon. Yeah, so let me oh, let me oh, where am I going? All right? So evidently this is a butcher knife, or this is a knife from the butcher bocket. Looks like a bread knife basically to me that was used for this the blood And you can see this schematic up over here that is describing the blood from red is supposed to be damon, so that is here, and we have blood over here, Darlee, we have blood pretty much all over the place. I mean, here's the kitchen, here's the utility room. But she did indication she felt that the intruder had left out the utility room and that this her blood being found here probably would be explainable if she had chased after this individual and then DeVaughn in Yellow was literally kind of just isolated to this one spot. So that would almost indicate if this blood of this individual is being tracked all over the place, is either being tracked by the assailant or literally is being ran around the entire house. And her blood is pretty much everywhere, back and forth. But as you said, if she's going to the kitchen and grabbing, you know, towels and making her way back over to the boys, that would explain how her blood then ends up in these locations as well.

32:26 It is a horrendous crime scene. I mean, look at this house. Though it's a very affluent. Go ahead, Nolan. A couple of questions, was the knife from inside the house was her? Yes? Okay? And where was the father? And all this upstairs supposedly asleep with the infant not woke into anything until his wife screams for him. At the end, yep with there was a third child, then a younger child, yes, a seven month old that was upstairs with him. Apparently he was being. Evidently she had awoken, I think, to hearing one of the children's scream, but that doesn't tell me when she was stabbed versus them. Again, we were not getting really kind of a clear story of what transpired.

33:15 She made it. So she woke up to a scream, found both of them stabbed, and I would assume at that point that she was also injured herself or stabbed. Yeah, why when she woke up, she was already stabbed. So a lot of people think, including her stepsister who is on her side and trying to get her out because of this, because they don't think obviously she did it. They think that she was in some type of psychosis, uh, maybe passed out and she remember And so the bits and pieces that she does remember that she has reported it doesn't make sense because it's different pieces. Because as we know, our brain is is it actually is used as a defense mechanism in our brains to protect us from certain things. And I know it sounds crazy, but that's literally how the brain works. So they could possibly cause some type of psychosis where it's trying to protect you.

34:15 From things that it doesn't want you to remember. If that makes sense, you can look it up. I don't know if you are familiar with that, but it is definitely a sign. It is definitely a scientific thing that can just has captain in many cases. So watching her, I was just watching I was just watching a reality show not too long ago, in which case one of the individuals had been woken up by their significant other and of course he went to bed kind of inebriated. So if she's on any type of drugs for postpartum depression or anything else that could have inebriated her to a certain degree, he gets woken up and literally for the first five to six minutes, he is so out there. He asked the same question seven times, like his brain could not click and come and like rationalize what was occurring at that very moment. So for her to have woken up in that state, but would also somebody wake up after being stabbed, She says she was woken up by the screen of the sun versus you know, would you wake up to your body being slashed and stabbed like?

35:21 That? Was the dad of her suspect. No, evidently, which is very interesting. So he evidently when they met, was a seventeen year old assistant manager at some joint that eventually grew really fast into great degrees of wealth. You can see this house here, it's a gorgeous house. The neighborhood absolutely beautiful. The amount of jewelry she's got sitting just in one location, I'm sure doesn't encompass every single piece she owns, but you can see there's a lot of gold sitting on that counter. Very nice. Actually, he made his he was his self made. I guess I don't know how much he would make it made, but he was a self made what do you call it, uh.

36:06 Entrepreneurs, Yeah, entrepreneur. And they made the computer boards what they called. Ope, you were you were saying that motherboards? Yes, they yes, he created those, that's what they created for in his business. That's extremely and then puts it right up there in the realm of if somebody wants that business, they they. Are able to take it. Some of the theories and now look, I see this, you know, crime scene again with all this blood everywhere. And one of the theories was that he had or that she They were in financial straits and owed a lot of money, now to whom we don't know, one could suspect to the all because that seems to be who you borrowed money from those days, and and and the taking of children or family members in order to instill some type of message is something we've definitely seen them do.

37:00 But the DA. Actually suspected that this was a financial motivation. She was trying to alleviate herself of expenses of these children. But why kill the two older ones? They're much cheaper than the younger one, and they only had life insurance policies of ten thousand apiece, which was only going to be enough to literally actually bury them. Turns out the husband had a life insurance policy of eight hundred thousand, So why not kill the husband instead of the kids? That's yeah, that seems like an odd motive. Yeah, very odd motive. It doesn't make sense, but that's what they wanted to claim. So basically going through this information and putting so fingerprint expert Pat Wurthheim would later testify before in a Pierce Court that he could not rule out Darley Rutier's right ring finger as the source of the print. But nobody can explain this bloody sock seventy five yards from the house. I did read additional information that indicated that the DA sounds to me like another Peter Wilson case where they, you know, withheld information, they did limited forensics, then they testified badly to those forensics in order to secure a conviction. I've read an article that now says one of the jurors who had convicted her of being the culprit has now stated that them that them themselves and other jurors have indicated that they decided this case wrongly and that it couldn't have been her that killed them.

38:29 I just look at her, let's go back. I just look at her wounds and wonder how anybody could inflict this type of pain to themselves. She is bruised all over her hands, Yeah, that's understand. Cut marks, yeah, I mean cut marks up and down her arms. She's got slash marks across her neck and how I'm trying to imagine how she would have done this one that trailed all the way down her should I would have thought if this was so excruciating once you cut this one initial part, you wouldn't have continued on, yeah, downward. And this actual gap right here makes me wonder if she wasn't in a laying down position where the shoulder was then tucked more closely to her opposite side of her neck that she was cut on.

39:21 And then that's how that. Skip in that cut actually appeared, is because her shoulder was folding in, because she was truly laying down sleeping. Yeah, if the next one than the other one, that would seem to be a skip and then just the tip of knife caught the shoulder. Right and yeah, And of course they said something like two millimeters away from actually cutting her jugular, so she would would have died, and maybe the culprit did think that he successfully cut her jugular. Now, there's been some recent information in which the ex husband he believes her innocence and had the leader innocence. They divorced in twenty eleven, but new information is revealed that he had wanted to do an insurance scam and was looking around for individuals to rob the house steal his property that he could then turn around and reclaim from the burglars once it had occurred, and that this was or may have been the attempt to do so. There's talks about infidelity, there's talks about financial ruins, there's talks about a bad marriage.

40:29 But the bottom line is is that he eventually admitted to the fact that he was, if not joking about it. He says he never acted on it, he never actually paid anybody to do it, but that he was talking with other individuals, including Darley's step dad or something like that in regards to perpetrating this burglary or this robbery as an insurance scam to get caught up. And Nolan, what's crazy as all he owed was twenty two thousand dollars. That's nothing. Nothing. And here's the deal. This guy he was super young, right, I mean he made his money agun. Yeah, and they needed to. Look at him a lot closer, all his dealings and whatnot before they prosecuted. I think they jump a gun.

41:13 I'm not saying, and I'm not you know, but I'm saying there's a lot of loose ends, shall we say, to just jump like to rush to judgment. Right, Yeah, So I looked up who is Darren Rudier. Darren and Darley Rudier had met at a restaurant in Lubbock, Texas. You guys, Lubbock is where Jack is from, of all the places in that gigantic state, Lubbock, Texas on the afternoon of Mother's Day in May of nineteen eighty five, after the latter's mother had set up a meeting between them working at the same eatery where Darren, at just seventeen, proved to be an ambitious assistant manager. She knew that he'd be a good match for her fifteen year old daughter, so in nineteen eighty five, they waited till nineteen eighty eight to get married until she turned eighteen, so he's literally twenty years old when they get married in nineteen eighty eight. They had their first date that same evening, fell in love became inseparable. In fact, they only waited till August of nineteen eighty eight to get married due to their age. And it says and he was an entrepreneur since he was thirteen years of age, and Darren was doing very well at the time as an assistant manager. Okay, okay, yeah, well, so then that means that I then map out the why again does Jack keep these phone bills? If Jack was notorious for keeping all his receipts, I wouldn't be

42:43 questioning it. But like my dad, who kept everything, he had every bill and every receipt all the way back to the Dawn's end of time, he had kept throughout his entire life, and I had to discard it when. He passed here. With Jack, he only keeps certain things, and of course these phone billspen to be two of the things he kept. I thought the Boulder, Colorado stuff was going to relate more to what he was doing with John Benney Ramsay, but then it turns out to be this whole secret banking system that's going on. So I then map quest where the Rutier's crime occurred in relation to Big Springs and Port Arthur, and it looks like both of these areas are about as far away from the Rudiers crime scene as the newspapers that ran are from Jack's house about four hours and fifty two minutes. Literally, this one's four hours and fifty three from Rolette, Texas to Port Arthur.

43:40 I don't know if that makes a succinct triangle or what that's going on. Here, but then Big Springs to. Rolette, Texas is four hours and forty four minutes, so roughly about the same timeframe as it is from Jack's house to Port Arthur. All right, anybody have anything to add to that, anything you want to talk about, lindsay on that case, not on that case personally. But I just finished the I forty five docuseries on Netflix. It's crazy on how many murders in Texas that people got away with. I think several of those murders they end on three different people, and rightly so, but there's way.

44:26 More that are unsolved that we're solved. Correct And Jack that's his stomping ground too, so and I don't know how close this was I forty five, but it's Texas still, it's is there one. Of the guys. Yeah, if you want to get away with the murderer, do it here. Do it in Texas? Clearly, do it in Texas. Why are range is hundreds of thousands of millions of miles, the. Attitude of the of the of the law enforcement, and the reluctance to pursue. And then when finally, when Arley was a younger girl from a good family, then they pursue it. Exactly. It's like a woman who worked in a bar, or this is that a single bomb? Blah blah blah. They oh, they brought it on themselves. This was the attitude of the cops.

45:17 Exactly. It's just, you know, you don't probably one life more than the other. Your duty is to investigate a homicide. Well, and here's the thing that's the ad homin an argument. When you can't do anything about with evidence or facts, you then beat up on the character of the person. Right, Yeah, you have to be little down because you're doing a lousy job and you can't figure it out. So now you've got to make it sound as though. Or there's complicity with law enforcement, or maybe some of the go over its affiliated with law enforcement. We see Dan Angelo Williams law enforcement, and oftentimes people are either affiliated or or are actual law enforcement, and it's weight or or their security guards, their uniformed jack security are a lot of different Thane Caesar.

46:03 Was a security right. A lot of times uniformed people get away with more shit than someone that's in playing. Clothes exactly, and we know that Suspicious too talked about uniforms that were either security guards or cop like which made the person almost trustable for the individuals who were then victimized by that that particular individualized. And then when they're fleeing crime scenes or whatnot, they're not thought of. As suspects exactly exactly. Well, So climbing back into Jack, because I really thought we were going to hit John in a Ramsey this week, but it turns out we are. We had to push that forward, and I'm not going to be upset by that by any means, because I really did lose myself down a rabbit hole and that was some great research, Lindsey.

46:50 I can't wait to see what we have in store for John ben a Ramsey. But back to Jack. At this point, we have a couple minutes left. We are seeing I did not know AARP was around since nineteen ninety six, did anybody else? I really that they were a long term I had no clue. So it's funny to see some of the stuff you aren't even realizing you know that has been around as an insurance. So every time I see anything on insurance, I automatically. Go to unions. I go to mob paid. Protection like I just and these insurance companies were the ones that would like to give loans, right, I mean, that's what they were doing back in these days. I was a member of aar Pizza n eight.

47:34 But you are I'm old, and we have and we have John Walsh doing ads for them too in the in the two thousands. Oh really, go figure. Yeah, I have so many thoughts about insurance companies, it's unreal. Uh So, Anyways, on October sixteenth of nineteen ninety six, AARP forwarded mail from the ten forty seven PO box, which I believe was Jack or Nora's I'm sorry Flova's residence to the Nelda Street address, which is in sagein Texas. Billion statements for landlines confirmed Nelda Street through at least December of nineteen ninety six, and we see that on November sixth of nineteen ninety six, Flova gives power of attorney to Jack in Texas, so we know that he is back in Texas at this point in time for who knows how long I believe, at least until his mother passes, which brings us to November eleventh, nineteen ninety six, when Jack so he gets power of attorney of his mother on November sixth, and on November eleventh, he takes the entire family to California. That I guess also leads me money, if you know what, possibly, but that leads that leads me to believe once again that yes, in fact, Flova is in a care home at this point. So we see these are entries out of Nora's diary and it is nineteen ninety six. Stress begins and unfortunately we're down to about our last forty seconds here and we're going to have to do our sign off. So we're

49:05 going to be getting into some of the heart of the most interesting parts of nineteen ninety six, and that is Christmas of nineteen ninety six, where Jack was and what was going on. I want to thank you again so much, Lindsay for all your research and Nolan for being here. Is there anything you guys would like to say before we head out. For the next one. All right, everybody, have a wonderful weekend and we'll see you all next Friday. Pepe, thanks