WEBVTT
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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
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professional service, or any advice.
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You should seek the services.
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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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Good Morning, True Seekers and True crime Junkies, Welcome back
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to another episode of Hit the Road Jack Finding the Zodiac.
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Like to welcome to the show today, Nolan del Campo.
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Good be reading everybody.
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Good morning. So I had something I was going to
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start out with that I thought was fairly interesting and
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it kind of takes me back to some of the
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cases that I've had up against government examiners. And the
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reason why I mentioned this is because we've had the
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handwriting of Jack Terrence looked at by the FBI, and
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in doing so, it took I want to say, I
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felt like it was about ten months or so. I
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know Dennis and I kept asking what's the results, what's
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the results. They kept giving us excuses like there was
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some terrorists, you know, handwritings that they were having to
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work with, and that they really didn't have enough examiners,
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and then they found an examiner to do it. But
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then the agent, Chris Hopkins, had indicated that the agent
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that was looking at the handwriting had gone above and
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beyond and done thing or done things that he says
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he wasn't authorized to do, and made it sound like
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he's a newbie, he didn't know what he was doing.
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He got it overly excited about something, and they squashed
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it and took it away from him. And that didn't
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make any sense to me.
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No, just an opinion, right, right, Yeah, you know, it's
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not factor, it's false, it's not right or wrong.
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I feel like, if this is real and they did
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legitimately give it to this guy who was the underling
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of the document examiner in Quantico, because that's where they
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said they sent the handwriting back to, is that I
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felt like the way he stated it to me is
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that this guy probably found out or identified exactly what
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I did, which was Jack was the author of these writings.
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His findings did not coincide with what they wanted him.
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To fire exactly. And so Chris Hopkins had indicated that
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because he had gone above and beyond well, what's that mean?
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What's above and beyond me? He was thorough exactly, and
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he came to some conclusion that I obviously was never
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going to see that, uh an opinion of so literally
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they he said. Then they turned it back over to
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the head person and I think that was a female
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document examiner. And so we waited another, you know, a
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couple months, and then finally on one of our visits
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into the FBI office, we were presented with an opinion
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letter from them, and it literally was like one page
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and then one paragraph on the second page, and in
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it it said Jack may have written the zodiac letters.
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Jack may not have written the zodiac letters. I was like,
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what the hell does that mean?
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What I mean, if he may have that, it employs
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he may not have. You don't have to say he
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may not have. You always say he may have inconclusively.
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That's what that okay? And that and that's what's bringing
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me to the point of what we're going to talk
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about right now, is this inconclusive decision making that occurs
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on the document examiners that are retired from government or
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law enforcement. I want to play I'm going to have
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this clip played real quick and then I will come
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back and explain afterwards. So let's see to be or
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not to be? Oh, I can't laugh my rib my
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rib anyways, let's go ahead and play that video really
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quick and we'll get that out of the way, and
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then I'll continue on with what I have to say.
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And I asked them to identify to me what is
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an approved laboratory.
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They didn't.
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What percentage of cases.
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Are you able to make a positive identifications of handwriting?
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Now you'll find in many cases a lot of times,
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but do with the government, they have a very large
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number of inconclusives. In fact, it's interesting to watch when
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someone who.
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Has worked for the government for a number of.
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Years goes into private practice. They start giving inconclusives. So
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they find out very quickly that is not acceptable, so they.
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Start giving opinions.
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A love percentage of cases, have you been okay?
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So that is one of the mentors that I have
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in handwriting. She is in her eighties, she's been doing
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handwriting for decades, forty some years. I'm probably putting on
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that maybe even longer. But to hear those words in
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one of the classes that I was taking with her,
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just about kind of It's like a validation type factor,
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where it's something that you know, going through these core
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processes up against these different document examiners, you know that well,
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my thought is always they're either a higher gun or
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they're just not well trained to come back with the
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opinions that they've come back with. But to hear her
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say that they come back with these inconclusives as a
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way to stay in the case and make money rather
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than to actively be able to identify or eliminate somebody
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from handwriting is an injustice to the business. And when
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they show up in the courtroom, they have thirty year
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cvs working for law enforcement or the Department of Justice
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or the government, and the court somehow holds them to
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some higher regard than they do private practice. It's taken
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a long time for me to be able to overcome
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some of these individuals' opinions. But that means that I
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have to work extra hard to explain to the court
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and to show the court how handwriting works. And so
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that takes us back to this inconclusive that they did
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on Jack's handwriting. I knew it the entire time. A
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good document examiner is going to be able to make
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an identification or should be able to or exclusion of
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an individual, or at.
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Least cite similarities and differences and give facts that back
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up what they're oppaining.
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Correct. I want to say, in one of the last
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cases that I went up against a government document examiner,
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the court did not find for me because they said
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that I didn't I didn't talk about similarities. I only
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talked about dissimilarities. Well, was a forgery. There was no similarity.
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Just I get lost sometimes in thinking of these judges
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that want to take it upon themselves to say, oh,
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that looks similar. No, in your layperson's mind, you think
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that looks similar. But I'm going to show you how
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it's different because it is a forgery. If it was similar,
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we'd be talking about an identification instead. At any rate,
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taking us back to Jack's handwriting and the inconclusive, I
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just want people to understand that, regardless of what the
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FBI came back with and a, I don't even believe
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that that opinion letter was written by a document examiner. Again,
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it did not satisfy the criteria for writing or extending
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an opinion in a case, especially as short as it was.
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I mean a minimum of three My opinion letter is
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a minimum of three pages. We have to describe the
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documents that we used, both question which would have been
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the zodiacs and Jack's, which I had more, yeah, more
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than one hundred and sixty five examples of Jack's handwriting,
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both cursive, printed, lowercase, uppercase. I had everything. I had diagrams,
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I had drawings, I had, you know, schematics for his engineering.
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I had so many pieces of evidence they didn't even identify,
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but two pieces of his handwriting in that particular letter.
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I would have listed all of them.
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Just a summary by one of the agents working on it.
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Probably wasn't even.
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From the handwriting that was That's what I felt. And
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you know, of course we can only you know, theorize
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that it was kind of just to Playkate, Dennis and
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I rather than a legitimate examination that had been done.
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And we're going to be talking about handwriting today, hopefully
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if we get to it on the Lawrence k. Cline,
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who they call on the internet Lawrence Kine, And again
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I still can't figure out where they adopted this name
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Kine other than they found the word kine. They believed
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in the three p forty cipher and want to now
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formfit that to Lawrence K and it's KAYE. So now
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they've changed it to he's King ka n E. But
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all his documentation that we're going to look at is
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showing that he is K, not KINGBI and well different
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sources on the internet, so like right, and I'll show
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you how that all comes about. But so I wanted
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to just kind of cover that let everybody know that
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it is a running theme in the private industry, in
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the private sector that government document examiners that are I'm sorry,
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government trained, they're in forensics, trained in all kinds of forensics.
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The likelihood that they have taken any cases for elderly
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people because they're probably the least likely person to commit
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a crime, right, these people are handling criminal issues. You
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don't really have eighty five year olds with dementia out
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there committing crimes, so they never get to see this
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type of handwriting. So I just think sometimes that they
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haven't seen enough, but they rely on their thirty year
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CV to get themselves by and hopefully that the judges
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believe them on that. So we are back at I
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just got a couple more slides left on John Mark Carr,
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which is really just the breakdown of the emails between
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Michael Tracy and John Mark Carr. Once again, we have
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an individual reaching out, like I said, to an editor
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or a journalist. We still have this media web of
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people working with the media, and this was just something
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that the Zodiac did so to know john Mark Carr
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was also facilitating emails back and forth making claims that
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you had committed crimes or that he had done other things.
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Really takes me back with that real quick.
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I missed last week, so I had a couple quick questions.
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So we're allegedly confessed. Who did he confess to.
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The Thailand police?
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Okay, but did he do any confession once he got
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back to the States.
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Well, they they extradited him from Thailand back to Los Angeles. There.
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I don't know why they extradited him back there, right right?
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Why not Boulder, Colorado where he committed Yeah, admitted to
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committing this crime. So he goes to la first, then
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he's extradited back to Boulder, Colorado. They find that he
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doesn't match DNA, he doesn't match handwriting, he doesn't match
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anything associated with the case. But he had enough inside
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knowledge that wasn't known to the public that caused them
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to fly all the way over to Europe, grab him
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and bring him freaking back. So it tells me he
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knew more. And now these days, when you're looking at
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stuff on the internet about him, it says, oh, he
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didn't know anything more than what was out there in
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the public. We give people free rides back from Europe
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who aren't giving us any inside information that only the
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killer would know. That's just not the way things work.
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And now is that our theory also that if there
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were outside people, which we think it is, then there's
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more than one person.
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Involved, right right, And so he was excluded as the
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possible killer. So all of this was all made up obviously.
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But if you followed along, I think we talked about
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on one of the shows you were on, is that
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he left out from Sonoma under charges and hopped countries,
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starting in Malaysia, then ending up in Thailand, and then
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ultimately whether he walked himself into the Thailand police and
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claimed that he had killed John Bene Ramsay with enough
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information that made our law enforcement take him seriously and
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go out there and get him, or he was legitimately
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tracked down by Michael Tracy through these emails and found
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at the school that he was currently working at, and
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they arrested him there. I still can't tell the truth
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because again everything on the internet. I sometimes I like
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to say, oh, the media this, but I have to
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remember I don't believe the media.
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He's a fugitive. How can you travel all these places?
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I mean, he's still trial for.
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Exactly. So once he gets once he gets excluded as
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the possible suspect in John Beny and Ramsey, he's then
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extradited back to California, to Sonoma County to face the
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charges for the pedophilia that he ran away from. And
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it turned out that the judge admonished the DA for
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having lost the computer, lost the computer that had the
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child porn on it. We're only talking, we're only talking
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like four years, five years. This man's been gone and
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you've already lost the evidence in which you were going
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to per prosecute him over. So he is ultimately acquitted
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on those charges and set free. Wow, that to me
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sounds like what he did by leaving the country, pretending
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and playing Zodiac, pretending and playing he's or John Mane
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Ramsay's killer. That was all a setup and and he
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was going to be given the right to get off
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of all of these charges once he got back after
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Jack had died. That's kind of the way I felt,
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because it was within days of Jack dying that he