Jack and Nora 1998-1999

0:00 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services. Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

0:52 Good morning to seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac. I'd like to welcome to the show today, Nolan del Campo, Good morning everybody, and Lindsay Matt Hello, good morning. All right. Well, I woke up to an onslaught of messages from friends today. I really honestly didn't even know we had started bombing Iran or that we had started any type of issues. I mean, I was still in shock over the kidnapping of the president of Venezuela, and then we hear that they have killed Iran's leader and we're having these power struggles again. And now I think what they said was his son Israel or Iran's the leader's son is now in charge. Is that correct? Nolan, are you up to day. Yes, Okay, So one of the conversations I was having with my assistant in one of these days, I'm gonna get her on here because it's quite comical to listen to us address these issues. But I had mentioned to her that in my research through the Zodiac cases and looking at all of these different established crisis situations that have been created by the US to make it look like we were being attacked so that we could go to war with other people, I had explained to her that we had these gentlemen rules of uh on the on the battlegrounds basically, and this goes all the way back to you know, our early wars even you know between the South and the North here in

2:24 the United States, where they literally had rules of people you could attack and people you couldn't attack in the military, UH, so that they could efficiently be led to continue the war. When I've always thought, well, take out the guy leading, then they'll be lost, the war will be over. Right. Does that make any sense. Me? What's that? That's what they did with Kennedy. That's how. Yeah, they took out the leader and and look, we kidnapped a president. That didn't end that issue, right, it just created a bigger one. Now we go and we take out Iran's leader, that didn't stop it. That created an even bigger one, and now people are retaliating. So one of the one of the pieces of UH information that came up in my phone. And maybe it's because they heard I said this, I don't know, but it basically says it also highlights hagsss avow during a recent news conference that there would be no stupid rules of engagement in the war, and asked if the Defense Secretary had complied with rules to prevent the commission of war crimes.

3:33 The strike, if a US rule was to be confirmed, would amount to one of its worst single cases civilian casualties in decades of US conflicts in the Middle East. So that's them bombing this this school, right, Yeah, so they I think that it has been pretty much solidified that we initiated that attack on that school. That's what it seems like. But I don't I don't know. I still don't know. I always like to dive a little bit deeper. To me, it seems as though if there was a strike to be had, that that would have came from Israel and they would have done it. Yeah, thank for behalf. I think that's what it is. So that led me to the next message that I received this morning from my good girlfriend. She's been my dentist for more than thirty years. She's even sponsored this podcast at one point in time. And it is a former marine who fought in Iraq and he is listing, so let's start this PowerPoint presentation up because he had some numbers on here, and I want to briefly just describe what these numbers were so you'll see this. Oh, there we go. We'll see right here in the center with this marine who fought the Iraq War, and he's talking about our aid to Israel. So he's stating that we basically annually give them some exorbitant amount of money for military defense and aid, and just twenty twenty five to twenty twenty six, we've given them three point eight billion in military aid. We've given them five hundred million

5:08 in missile defense, eight point seven billion in supplemental aid, and five point two billion for the Iron Dome. Does anybody know what the Iron Dome is? I know I'm gonna sound stupid, but I'm not part of war. I stay away as much as possible. Okay, I hear about it all the time, but it's I don't know what it is exactly to explain, it's. One of those secret things we'll never really know, right well, maybe forty years from now when it's all outed what this whole entire thing was about. And then I guess, just randomly, Trump gave him another four billion, so a total of twenty two billion dollars in the last year to fight this war basically against iron. And so he goes on to say that Israel was really one of the prime factors that even the ira wore because they basically sat there stating that they knew Saddam Hussein was avidly working on nuclear weapons and that he must be stopped at all costs. So we go in, Yeah, we go in and we take him out, and we have all of these different allied countries that assist with us, and he's showing the loss of the military personnel involved in these battles, and it turns out that he says not one IDF military member has been killed. So this in these wars that Israel keeps starting and creating and we keep coming to their aid, they're not even there as an ally with US and they suffer no losses.

6:35 And that coincides with the rise of organizations like Blackwater private military forces. There's several other British ones. Blackwater is the biggest. And who is Blackwater? There a private military entity from the United States and they contracted the Department of Defense to conduct war. They were heavy presidence in Iraq. The whole Fallujah thing were they murdered some of the black Water guys or killed them, you know, war right, Yeah, even gotten involved with ice there soil. Now that's crazy. It's interesting to see who who who owns that company? But I dare say out loud.

7:19 Great book on it and it's religious. Right people on it all right. So it says how Israel's Dome defense system works. Missile explodes near rocket, destroying it. So basically it's an anti anti defense. So with somebody fires on them, they have an ability to take it out of the sky. So they call that the iron dome or the shield, which is the area in which they can knock other missiles out of the air. Is what it looks like. Yeah, that's what I thought explained that right, That. Was no, he actually even gave me a picture, so I didn't have time to read all of that on there, but based on what I'm seeing, this is what it looks like, which I would have to assume. And I was having this debate with my assistant that we had also had this type of technology, and she was under the impression that no, we don't, and I'm like, no, no, no, that that just can't be true. It doesn't make any sense, so I to you, right. So the other thing that hit me with this text about US giving Israel all of this money to fight this war to boost up their military, is that all of this destruction that we that we are actually carrying out is at some point in time going to have to have retribution, just like Kiroshima.

8:43 Are we going to go back in and now suffer the tax paying dollars of the American citizens? This should be doing us service. Our tax paying dollars should be providing for our homeless, for our people who are low income with no food, should be providing for this. But we're now going to have to spend money, I'm sure to rebuild this area, and it just absolutely disgusts me. Do it destroy and. It's like nine to eleven alliver again? Well, yeah, we perpetrated that against ourselves again making it look like somebody else had done it. And that's the theme that we just keep seeming to follow. And in this particular clip where this marine is talking about this, he refers to this war that we're having right now as Operation Epstein Fury, and I thought, what the shrek?

9:32 Like a lot we're saying it too. It's like very viral. Well, and so I had to look that up. I had to Google and hopefully AI is correct, right, like, if there's anything that we can count on now, as this foresped information into this robot that is putting it all together collectively for us, whether it's telling us the truth or not, this is the information I came up on, it says based on search results up to March twenty twenty six. Project Epstein Fury, often referred in the context of Operation Epic Fury and the surrounding Epstein Document scandal, represents a chaotic intersection of a major military operation and a mounting political crisis for the administration of President Donald Trump. Here are the key aspects of the system of this situation.

10:13 Operation Epic Fury military action on March first, twenty twenty six, President Trump authorized Operation Epic Fury, a joint US Israel military campaign against Iran, targeting nuclear facilities, missile sites, and leadership. The campaign was presented as a move for peace through strength. The distraction narrative the timing of this or similar action has been widely interpreted by critics, media commentators, and some supporters as a strategy to distract from the intense scrutiny regarding the release of Jeffrey Epstein related files, with some calling it Operation Distraction from the Epstein Files or using the anagram forget Epstein. We know about the Epstein files scandal the uncorroborated allegations. In March of twenty twenty six, the Department Justice Department released more files, which included uncooborated accusations against Donald Trump, which the White House deemed completely baseless.

11:08 Of course they did, of course they did. Oh political fallout the situation caused tension, with some supporters feeling betrayed and concerned about to cover up. Some commentators described the MAGA movement as tearing itself apart over the handling of the files. In summary, Epstein Fury refers to the intense anger with him a segment of Trump's base regarding the withheld Epstein documents. And now I've started seeing more pictures come out with Donald Trump and young girls, gross with his shirt off. One of them makes it look like the girl's got her arm around him. But I caution everybody about AI and the ability of some of these pictures. Yeah. See, because when I look at the picture of this little girl is standing to his right and her arm is purportedly all the way up and over, but the way the hand is actually positioned on his shoulder is not connected to the arm. And her poor little arm would have to been like four feet long for her to get all the way around Trump and over to the other side. And that was just one of them that I had the time to view. And I thought, you know, just be careful for yourself that you're not putting out there bad rhetoric. If there are legitimate pictures, then of course share that stuff, but make sure that they're legitimate, legitimate pictures before passing them around. Get away the right exactly.

12:26 And and and I don't put anything past him, because you know, I've already stated that I believe the band aid Florida put on Epstein with his fake little arrest in two thousand and six was a stall tactic to allow Trump to come up with a way to uh get Epstein's yeah yeah, yes, yeah, plausible yeah, plausible deniability that he has anything to do with Epstein when it is very clear that he was buddy buddy and you cannot be buddy buddy with Epstein with knowing what he's involved with. I'm sorry, Oh yeah, I don't want to hear from any of these people. We just work without. Being the friend.

13:07 Even without being his friend, he knew of him and was around him because of others and his you know business, he still would know even if he wasn't his friend personally. Right, and gossip doesn't just happen at the lower level of society. I'm sorry. There was words that were said that anybody who was associated with Epstein would know exactly what he was involved with and into. So that's that rant on the Epstein. But then that took me into a little bit more research where I wanted to find out does Iran even have nuclear weapons? I did not know if it were true. This is what Ai says. As of March twenty twenty six, Iran is not known to possess operational nuclear weapons, but it has developed significant uranium enrichment capabilities that place it on the brink of potential nuclear weapon production. While holding enough sixty percent enriched material for multiple weapons, intelligence suggests it has not taken the final step to build a bomb. And here's why.

14:06 The enrichment level is at sixty percent, which is close to the ninety I don't see that as close. That's that's only two thirds of the way there. That's not close. Close would be like ninety eight percent there. But they need ninety percent in order to make a nuclear weapon. So are they that close? I really don't see that they are. So that whole excuse back over here on the distraction narrative is that they are going to you know, attack with nuclear weapons or we're attacking their nuclear facilities, really doesn't hold any water. And that's AI based. Well, And don't you remember last year whenever we sent these bombs to bomb these certain places over there to make sure they didn't have any nuclear weapons.

14:48 So but it was it was it was. Done in a strategic way to not cause much destruction or or any any cause any harm to any you know, persons that may have been in the areas, Like. Did y'all remember that. That was all because if Charley Kirk, Charlie Kirk went to Trump and was like, please don't, please, don't go to war over there, and so he agreed to just clear facilities. Hmmm. Well, and that's what brings me back even need. This is what I'm saying. We don't because they don't have the capabilities that they're claiming that they have or the reason why we're bombing these areas. And the fact that we bombed a school was no mistake. Make that clear, It was no mistake.

15:36 This is what initiated what is going on right now, and whether or not we actively did it. I love that the media is playing it off like, well, we haven't confirmed that the US is responsible. Well, if the US is responsible via the Israel route, then the US is responsible. And this whole entire chaos is just absolutely Acidine is going to do nothing but cost us money and lives, because, as indicated by this marine, IDF soldiers are never the casualties. They're well protected with inside their little iron dome and their bubble. I'm disgusted anyways, all right, that. Was this war, no, and they likened it.

16:18 You know, what is interesting is that it's been likened to World War Two, which we know again was a way to get the rich Jews out while genocide and the lower level of society Jews were all persecuted and burnt and enslaved in camps, and we actually had parts in that we had our own camp there. We were supporting with businesses that provided wood and coal and steel and things for this particular war, while we claimed we were helped fighting them. It's just it's disgusting that it's much bigger than we can imagine, a game than we even know, and the chess game is starting to play out in a way that it's starting to show the reality of how we have up in these type of involvements.

17:02 And they didn't really didn't get through either about the what's gonna what's this going to lead to? Well, one thing that's going to lead to is a lot of the Islamic people hating the United States forever and declared gy hod and and maybe terrorism here in the States and and you know, all over Europe and different bases in the Middle East. Election, and so it's there's so many other things that like the straight of hor moves the oil they're about one fifth of the world's oil is not being shipped out because one fifth of the world is well goes with the straight of home moves and that shut down because the Iranians have a capability to do that.

17:43 And it's misplaced anger. They don't have coal ballistic missiles to attack the United States. They have to attack what's the region exactly, And it's misplaced anger. If these people want to, you know, would you say g had if they want to commit to hod On on American citizens or anybody who wasn't responsible for pushing that button or making that decision. It's no different than US rioting in the BLM matters when we didn't create this, but you're going to haunt US American citizens over it. It's absolutely disgusting. It is innocent people are getting killed and harm because of the whims of dictator.

18:25 And yeah, I thought this was a religious war. I'm obviously completely out of the loop. I think Israel just wants to control Iran. States both. Yeah, but what what do they really have there that we want? They're old oil? Oh okay, so it does take us back to the resource they're going to And yeah, they're going to end up with those resources anyways, why not just go take them? Why not just go take them? We have. Full surrender, uncondasional States.

19:06 Wants the United States wants the resources, and Israel wants. The land the power that makes. Sense, they want their land to Yeah. This is not again. This is another one of those not our war type things. But we're going to suffer and pay for it. And I'm completely disgusted by that. And then we voted. I don't know if y'all voted three times, but I voted three times for that man for Trump. I voted for Trump, but I voted for the Republican Party, and Trump was a byproduct of that. I think that his re entry into office the second round was for exactly this purpose that we're seeing right now. Number one, to offset the Epstein files, which would demolish most of the government officials. I believe not one person still has been arrested for any of these acts. I think that it was also.

19:58 The INTELLI that was and that wasn't even an American decision that was over there. For the record, I voted against Trump every single time, the person running against him, but against him. So this is I thought this was interesting because this was the response after this text message about this marine from my girlfriend. She she says, I hope they don't strike on our shores. This is so freaking unnecessary. All Izzy's fault. She's calling Israel Izzy. We are, she says, we were enslaved by them. I wish everyone would be brave enough to boycott them in mass.

20:44 There like the Frankenstein Monster, and we're like Doctor Frankenstein. We gave them the power to wreck havoc in the region. All that the show that goes to him, that was just in one year one year. Why Why are we defending somebody who never defends us, who is never anymore? Are enforcer the scorpions tail There are enforcers there are in that land, and they're ruled by white people. Exact reason is right, it is well as was supposed to be World War two, right like con.

21:28 And it does it is a religious war as well. At the same time. Yes, yeah, well we are back on jack now religion. Yeah me too. Yeah. I can't imagine that any god of any sort of any denominating or any uh different culture would want this if they truly believed in God. So I've had enough of that mess, August. God, there's not ten thousand gods. So I'm as long as you love that one God and love people, and that's and you're good. We don't need anything else. And we don't need to tell you who your God can be. Let it be whoever you want it to be, as long as you're a good person. Yeah, all right, So back to Jack August eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight. We're still showing them at thirty three fifty Auburn Boulevard. The reason why I keep mentioning that they are still here at this entress is we're going to see some heavy movement here shortly. And this is actually some medications for Nora, and we see Jack's handwriting on it. So I wonder at this point if Nora has already lost her eyesight and that's why we see Jack doing everything, and that we saw in nineteen ninety seven was our last written words from Nora may also have some play, I think as well into her dating of the of the journal, and I'm sure that her memory. If you're losing your eye sight, you're losing your leg, you're losing you know, body parts, your brain cannot be operating maximumly. So we

22:58 do see that he's handling this and telling her how much, how many she's supposed to take per day. And of course Dennis had told me that she that Nora was afraid Jack was trying to kill her, and she refused to take her medication. So when Jack would bring it in, she'd tongunge it and then once he walked out, she'd spit it out and toss it under the bed. Talk about that in a little bit. Another one of the doctors, for doctor mark Off. We see here this is in regards to Nora. Once again, let's see if I have any Yeah, this is for Nora Terrence. So this is her doctor information. And we see that Jack is writing on this one of the addresses for her doctor Lawrence Ellison, and he writes building. And the reason why I brought that up is because you're either a person who uses the word building in an address sequence or you're not.

23:49 Lawrence Ellison would have sufficed care of doctor whomever. And then the address right. And the reason I bring that up is because in Black Dogs we see the use of the word building and it's actually tangled in with the street address, so it starts out Herald Express one line building. Second line then begins twelve forty three, and the next line is Trenton Street, So he's intermingled not only the use of the word building, but the actual address is kind of a run on sentence there. When I got into the Dear draft Board letters, we see pretty much exactly the same thing chimes building rooms ten twenty. So rooms ten twenty should have been followed after five hundred South Salina Street, not tangled in once again with the name of the building with the word building in there.

24:39 And of course, when we get back into the nine to eleven attacks, we see the word building one more time after the Heart Senate Office. The next line starts building above the city and state. And when I compared that word building with the word building in Black Dahlio, we found that the not only did he do it in all caps pretty much very similar to the nine to eleven attacks, but we also saw this interesting break and differential spacing between the last four letters of the word, which was consistent with blast volume as well. Yeah yeah, so these are these are interpersonal human habits, and filling out an envelope is also another one of those things that we will all do a little bit differently. In graphology, I learned some people will actually put the address to the left instead of dead center of the envelope. They will put it to the right, or they will, you know, do these strange you know combinations like we see building and then the beginning of the street address and how that works in either one of these.

25:39 So I put mine in the center, yes, and address too. Yeah, and that's the proper way to do it. But as we all, as human nature, will deviate in different ways. When they do deviate, that makes it extremely significant as far as a connection is concerned. Yep, So on two. Odd the way that it's written ud be the MTG that says. Right, And yeah, I didn't I failed to bring that up. But yes, there's no period after friend or not, the.

26:20 No punctuation to indicate it. Yeah, capital C a. Well. But Jack for whatever reason was never really good, even when I go through his own in his own personal communications, he was never good at the acronym for the states. So we always spelled out the first three to four five letters, such as caliph. I mean, he. That they would nail something that was spelled like that. Well, it's enough, it's enough. To determine its location, so Washington he might put something like w A S H right like he he always either spelled it completely out because he never knew the proper acronym. I believe which is.

27:05 On the Belles is mister Belvin Bellie. Why not be. I think because there was some think. I think bell I is. I think Belli is in this group. And he's showing a form of respect to bell I by calling him mister and addressing things properly to him when he fails to address the rest of the address properly. So you got to go into that psychology of giving him the respect versus the rest of that information. I don't trust bell as far as you can throw him. No, no should I guess his his cultural background. To tell you, well, Battalion, there's.

27:53 No coincidence that he was Jack Ruby's. Lawyer right now, none whatsoever. So we see some checks here where in December third of nineteen ninety eight. Again they are still on Auburn Way, so we were clocking them right on in. We do have these. I had some of his again when he keeps specific things, because he didn't keep everything. If Jack kept everything, I would not hold so much into the items that he had kept, because it would have been everything. But Jack specifically kept very strategic things in my mind, and we're going to get to that here in a second, because one of them I think is extremely strategic. But this supports that Jack and Nor we're still in California. It does say here on the eighteenth that GED Charles eight a M which I thought was a little strange because we know that they left him in nineteen ninety seven back in California with Dennis and Joy in order to finish his GED.

28:56 So either he didn't finish it while he was here in California and had to come back when he came back to Sack, or well, they've been back for a few months at this point, but is showing that he's again attempting his g D on the eighteenth. Uh. I thought this one was interesting simply because it says bought a cart and a cigarettes. Who marks that on their calendar? Yeah? That either he unless he hasn't smoked in a really long time and he's like admitting to something that he quit long ago and. Just to remind him later to stop. I mean that's something I could think of. Right Or I thought it was funny he needed to remember when he bought him because maybe he thinks somebody's stealing them from him. Who he wanted to track how many packs there were, And you know.

29:49 He used to pick up cigarettes the time that crom scenes. And what would that have to do with him marking his calendar about when he bought it. I I just thought it was interesting. Nobody marks that on their calendar unless there's a reason to track it. It may very well be what he said, he fell off the wagon and he writes that down. But things are very stressful with Nora right now, so I can completely understand if he started smoking again. Also, I see here that they these these numbers have been listed and again he did not keep well he did not. No, I think I have this entire calendar. It looks like I did based on the scan. So I was pulling things out of it that I thought was interesting. One of the things that I was noting on here was some of the different letter A formations that he used, because I was under the impression that he basically had this more let me see go back to this. He had this more hard pressed a with had this concaved top that was very angular, and then I started seeing things like in Congratulations here and in see where it was this doctor Mayo, that A is done more like a curved number two versus the version that we just saw, and that curve number two version was used in the Zodiac letters. In fact, it was one of the plights Dennis had in a version of Robert Graysmith's book that came out that Dennis then believed Robert Graysmith changed that look of that particular

31:21 page because it had that bell top a, which in fact, the FBI was making suspects right when they were doing investigations and interviewing people. So why were they asking for that bell top a. If we can't find that bell top a today in any of those communications, it screens that the communications images have been changed for the purpose of not being able to come to a conclusion. Even though I did, oh, here it is, I did blow it up. So we had this A, which was Jack's attitude, I'm gonna call it his attitude A from when he was working at Hewlett Packard and in the military. Again we have that very angular top and then of course we get over here where he has Nora, and we start to see these rounded versions. Look at that one up there. So some of these are very consistent with some of the other letters. And I'm gonna need to go back and actually compare those two the letters that are not associated to the zodiac. But I believe part of a collection that the Zodiac wrote, so that would be something.

32:26 My numbers look very small to the zodiac. Oh yes, and I've plotted the numbers out. There is on every single level, Jack is a match. In the handwriting, the diagrams, the way he puts together an envelope like it just goes on and on and on, and at some point, if it wasn't him, it would have stopped. At some point I would have went, no, he had never done this, and now I have to exclude him. And that just did not happen. What last, my my Head's it all right? So February twenty third and nineteen ninety nine, Nora dies and Jack uses the thirty three to fifty Auburn ard in the death certificate thirty three. I don't know what that means.

33:07 Free Mason, Oh, but. This is his address. He didn't have a choice over this. Nora was due to be released November fifteenth, nineteen ninety nine. So basically, she's in the hospital in February and she had her leg amputated due to infection and diabetes. She was not on oxygen or any respiratory machines. Yet she was found in a coma on the floor of her hospital room, suffering an anoxic brain injury caused by the oxygen somehow being cut off from her brain. So Dennis has been banned from the hospital. This time he's talking about aneurysm. Is that what you mean? No? Anoxic brain injury? Iced to work for a neurosogoon.

33:47 H I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know where I even got that information. I must have picked it up somewhere. I will have to check it now that you call me out on. It, Well I didn't usually, I know, like so many because I've worked there for ten years. You sound like you went underwater. Oh can you hear me? Yeah, you just sound like you went underwater. You were very clear before, and now I get kind of this hollow. I'm in the bathroom, feel. Not in the bathroom. But worked for a nurse urgeon for ten years and. You've never heard of it? Okay, Well that's something we can Jack no time to waste. But this was in Jack's book, he said, Dennis's book. Jack almost pulled off, pulled this off, but things didn't go as they were planned.

34:33 Jack planned on my mother meeting death the day she went into a coma. Now Jack was faced with the possibility of Mom coming out of the coma and then she could let someone know what he did. Jack was able to carry out his murder, but made a fatal mistake in the process. Jack brought suspicion upon himself by his desperate attempts to overcome the unexpected. He only left suspicion in one person, and this person is the last person you want to double cross. That one person is me. So basically, while Jack, while Dennis's mom is suffering in the hospital, all of a sudden, Dennis tries to come and visit her and he's being blocked by the security guards. He's being totally can't go in that a bomb threat was called in and they stated that it was Dennis that did it. Now he is blaming right, yeah, he is blaming Jack for this actual act because he knows he didn't call in any type of a bomb scare.

35:25 But he is now being prevented from seeing his mom, and of course he was not able to be there with his mom when she passed. He was evicted basically from the hospital and not allowed to come back. And his perception is is that when she went into this coma that it was likely something that Jack had done to her that caused it because she wasn't having any respiratory issues. And subsequently, when she went into that coma, if there was a fear that Jack had she was going to come out of it. She is now one leg down, basically blind as the information goes, and basically going to be a complete burden on Jack, which we see Jack didn't even really like her the year previous when he's going through congestph car failure, so he does whatever he can to get Dennis blocked and banned from the hospital, and Dennis believes that he cut off the oxygen to Norris, causing her death. Over all.

36:15 See well, and that also shows like his control that he had, that he had that type of control that he could prevent someone from visiting their mother while they were dying. Well and check this out. So while Dennis was convinced that Jack had something to do with her, death, and after finding out years later that Dawn, Jack's brother was working as an orderly in the very same hospital, so it could have been Jack's brother that called in this bomb scare. I just thought you got to be kidding me, Like, what are the chances? Dennis remembers Jack talking taking a shot with his knife, with his knife at him at a storage shed, and Charles pulled the cock knife from Jack's hand, which infuriated him. So I guess Jack was ready to spear Dennis with a knife and Charles had to rip it out of his hand. But this was another one of those stories where there's no love for this family from Jack.

37:07 How often do you see bomb threats at hospitals? You just don't anally? And how did they identify who it was? This is Dennis right, well, and nobody would do that. What power had they given Jack to decide who it is or who it was? It wasn't about a power given to Jack. They believe Jack was the one that perpetrated the call. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying, but like they believed him, Like how do you just believe? No, if you call it a bombs well, right, call it a bomb scare? And then what say, I'm Dennis Kaufman, so that you get banned when you try to come in and see your momb You're right, and no one's right.

37:50 Nobody would do that to themselves. Now, well, now we actually see on March twenty fourth and nineteen ninety nine, we do have a see an unsolved murder of thirty five year old Victoria Dean Sunday Brutin. Now, of course, this is a good month after Nora has passed, and we know that Jack is on the run and he's moving around and I'm going to show you how that works. But we do see that he's crossing Nora out, so that does mean that she has already passed. And this is on July third of nineteen ninety nine. He's crossed out the address that tells us he's no longer at Auburn Boulevard. But we don't know where he is collectively at this point I can guess, but I'm going to assume it is probably back to Texas. And then we're going to see that he has actually moved back into Arizona.

38:37 So I was under the impression that this particular expiration date of two thousand and five was when he was back well, that his stay in Arizona had only been one stay during ninety three to ninety whatever it was. And it actually turns out or was that, Yeah, it was in the nineties when he was in Arizona on Copley Drive. But now we see the phone book and has his driver's license, which is an Arizona driver's license with an expiration date of two thousand and five, so we are finding him back in Arizona at this point in time. It turns out that a relative actually owns Copley address, which Dennis has indicated and given some information in regards to that. And here is the actual storage shed where Jack stored his stuff in Arizona. So Jack moves back to Flagstaff, Arizona in his travel trailer that he parks on the property of ant Babe. We heard about ant Babe in Nora's diary. Though this check looks like a rent check to Betty Sterner for September third of nineteen ninety nine. Jack left a storage shed full of stuff when he left Arizona and headed back to Dale, Texas in late of October nineteen ninety nine. This is a picture the storage shed at fifty three eighty eight talking to the kit. What's that I lost her?

39:58 How do you get the Yeah? Where did I get the chat? They like random and you're cutting in and out, so I'm not getting you clearly and a luster, maybe I can explain this, all right? So it has the address fifty three eighty eight Copley Drive, flag Flagstaff, Arizona. I can now you're asking where I got the chat connection. Yeah, well, this is wondering if it was one of those things that they give him back to you. I know they used to give him back to you when I was when I was like, uh. Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, all right, yes, exactly. That's a Jack is in possession of these, and Jack chose to keep it for whatever reason. Again, he didn't keep every single check, so why does he keep these red herrings as I call them? So this one actually lists the Kopley address, and we can see by September third of nineteen ninety nine, he is definitely in Flagstaff, Arizona. He's making a rent check to Betty Sterner and this is the storage shed in Arizona where his items were. He has also had a.

41:03 It looks like it's not usable. Anymore. It looks pretty old. I'm sure it's dilapidated, but out there in the country you can store anything you want as long as you don't mind it being eaten up by rats and stuff like. Whatever it is. I just know that this is where Dennis eventually went to pick up Jack's belongings in Arizona when Jack gave him permission to go get it. So we see that Charles has now been added to the account and they are in Arizona now. I also noted that these items, this the green metal box and the tupperware box that had things like the knife that Dennis believed was used in Black Dahlia, the dried out pilot razor pens we believe were used in the Zodiac communications, jewelry that may possibly have come from the hitchhiker murders.

41:49 Pre cut cord or rope. Now why this, I don't know why this was never taken from from Dennis, because I think this could have been something that was directly compared to any number of these victims that were tied up or hog tied with this type of rope. But this is the type of rope that was found in the trunk of Jack's car. Let's see here, this looks like some key chains that had to happen to go back to Michigan and to Illinois. So again we have more red herrings that are just kind of plodding around and placing. And these were precious enough for Jack to actually contain in a single set of boxes. Yes, Zodiac like to maintain mementos of his conquests and.

42:32 Whatnot exactly in the original letters. Having gone missing altogether means that we couldn't do a direct comparison of the ink. But this could have been tested by any means. Yeah. So the green metal box and tupperware container where the roles of film, knives, earrings, pilot felt to pens, and other miscellaneous items were found in the story shed in Flagstaff, Arizona. This is provided by Stephen Dewhurst's book here, and Dennis believed they were definitely memorabilia from the Zodiac climes or least related crimes in the California area. Now, what got even more interesting, you guys, is the coincidence that the next set of unsolved murders on October twentieth to the twenty sixth of nineteen ninety nine. Now, I had played around with the data. I wasn't sure what it was, but hear they're saying the cold case opened October twenty fifth, which means that the murders must have taken place somewhere on or abouts the twenty fourth to the twenty fifth, and it is the murders of forty five year old Michael Alexander, forty four year old Richard Barnes, and forty six year old Lynn Patrick in Belmont, Arizona. Now, I only captured this unsolved case because it was in Arizona, but I didn't not till this last week that when I looked it up that it's thirteen minutes from where Jack's staying. Oh wow, there's nothing happening, No murder's back here in California. But thirteen minutes from where Jack is currently living is this triple homicide. So it was interesting because as I went through some of the information, I clicked out the cold case opened October twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine. The bodies of three victims were discovered in

44:04 and around a trailer that's up Jack Sally in the forest outside Belmont, a small unincorporated community near Flagstaff. No arrests were made and the triple homicide has been labeled a cold case by the Cocinou Cocanino County Sheriff's office. The area had been marked for logging, and once investigators cleared out the scene, many of the trees at the site were quickly cut down. So basically, they're saying they came in and bulldozed this area within a week of a crime scene. What that Who? It's so wrong. It's just like Martin Luther King in Memphis, Like within the next day, I think they cut down all these trees and bushes and shrubs that were sniper could have hidden to shoot King. They were gone next day.

44:53 Was that something that also happened in the JFK shooting, like the grassy nole types, you know. Stuff was still there, Okay, but they aborted everyone's attention to the school book depositor. Yeah, and tried to deflect attention behind on the grassy goal. Right, but everyone knows. Yeah, even people run towards the fens after the shots for they saw like, you know, smoke from a gunshot and they sense that it came from there. Just wait, you know, the bullet. Hit his head and his head right, yeah, right, well, it says that that part of the forest where the victims were camping, they were going to harvest the wood out of there, and lumber companies could come in there and cut those trees down. Joan said, within a week, all the trees that were around the trailer were gone.

45:44 His theory involves the perpetrator or perpetrators wounding Alexander, killing Patrick and Barnes, leaving the scene, and then returning to kill Alexander and shoot the other two victims again who were already dead. Raw, which was an investigative reporter, recalled several details from her time at this crime scene. Journalist explained how the sheer number of shots fired and the isolation of the site specifically stood out to her when she visited WOW. Another excerpt on it is that Alexander was Patrick's boyfriend and Barnes was a friend. Jones said that it is likely more than one person was involved in the killing. It's just a very dynamic scene, Joan said. Some of the shots were fired after the victims were dead. They wanted these people dead. Jones said, so, why did they want these people dead and why did they clear this crime scene? The victims' bodies were found by a neighbor in the forest near Belmont of Forest Road one seventy one. Barnes was found in a trailer at the campsite, while Patrick was found outside on the edge of the campsite.

46:42 A body of Alexander was face up on pine needles of the forest floor. So they came back to make sure the job was done. And that's very mob like. Yeah, that's literally overkill, overkill several people Manson murders. There's a theory that Manson went back to the seat of the crime to shit, leave other clues and to make sure everyone's. Dead wouldn't be surprised. So it says several people interviewed soon after the shooting desks of Richard Barnes, Lynn Patrick, and Michael and Alexander, but no solid suspects information developed at the time. Fingerprint DNA evidence from the October nineteen nine killings are being analyzed and witnesses are being re interviewed, but they're saying that they really don't have any information left on this case to go over because when they try to even idealize what the crime scene look like, while they have pictures, none of those trees are there for them to re enact that case. Sheriff's Cold Case Unit investigator Chuck Jones said, there are no leads and the motive isn't known. I have an idea what may have happened, Joan said, but I got to let the evidence take me where it's going. Jones said, the case still will be difficult to prove in court, even if suspect information is developed. I think that the idea here is to figure out why they were killed. I'm just absolutely blown away by the fact fact that that set of murders is thirteen miles from where Jack was living at that time and right up as Alley murder could have been anything needing money at this point because Jack

48:12 is now down one probably social Security income, with Nora be and dead, and he has to make his moves around. But I do show that then his rent came do and was up as of October of nineteen ninety nine, as it were. Let's see here, yeah, October nineteen ninety nine. We then see him up and go back to Texas, but then ultimately moves to Oregon, and this right here, I want to now look at these because all of these different murders are unsolved murders during the years that Jack was known to be in or around Arizona. So it makes me now want to look at these particular murders and that's why are there and look at some of these things. I mean, what I got this one minute?

49:00 Where is it? Okay? This particular url is the Lumberjack on jack central dot org. Wow, this one nineteen eighty five, Virgil Hope was found shot to death and his trailer Neil Happy Jack on October fourteenth. Yeah, a lot of Jack connections there. Anyways, we will pick up in two thousand when we come back. That's where we're going to find Jack and organ we're going to start discussing that. I just don't think it's a coincidence that he happens to be thirteen minutes from a triple homicide where heavy gun use was used and they came back to make sure that the suspects were dead. So on that note, that is all we have. You guys, thank you both for being here today. Very intriguing conversation in regards to this whole Iran issue, and I hope to see everybody next Friday. You guys have a great weekend.

49:48 Are we going to know a little back, but don't your stuff. Next time. We can, but I think we're going to be. At Jill and that suspect Mark Hansen. We can talk about that. I didn't. I forgot all about that, but we can talk about that. I'll text you after we're done. Guys, I'll see y'all later. Take care, take care,