Jack and Nora 1997-1999, Part 2

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0:52 Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac. I'd like to welcome the show today. When he met Hey, Hi, good morning. Good morning. How are you good? Are you? I'm good? You sound so clear? And Chris, Oh maybe this this these new headphones? Yay cool. Maybe I'll finally learned when I use them. That's okay. I just learned how to use the timer on my smart watch that I didn't even know it existed. I was looking to do my I my heart rate variability, and I skipped across. Oh my gosh, I have a timer.

1:40 A watch is a watch? People. I know you just want to something new every day. Literally, I could if I had the time. I just simply don't have the time with this. I don't even think I had music on my phone until probably like the last four or five years. So while everybody else is like MP three streaming and doing all this stuff, I'm like, no, I need my battery for my phone. Yeah, well, I guess. I guess I'm kind of that same boat, I would think, because I mean, yeah. That when my girlfriend just told me she slid into my dms on Instagram and I bolt fell over. I said, you did what? She's like, come on, you don't know what a DM is? You into someone's DM? I said, I do. I've just never had it happen to me before because I never owned it, like Instagram or staff Chattered.

2:27 I've never owned any of these accounts up until probably the last month. And she just discovered it. She lives in Florida, and she said that she sent me a recipe by it, but then had to text me to tell me. Yeah, for that social media stuff, I bed my assistant to do that. Oh that's hilarious. Well, I was starting out today with just some rhetoric. It was interesting that I got yesterday because last week we talked about this eighty year old man in this handwriting case that I had, and he had received this propaganda from I think it was like Conservative Association of Waste by the government or something like that. And his responses were absolutely hilarious, Like he wrote on their duh, Like he's eighty years old and he's writing capital d.

3:16 Oh my gosh h. And he's like, every time they say something, just reprint the law larger and larger each time they disagree, and show them it's a law on the books. They have to follow it, but we can exactly clearly see that's not what the government does. Right. Yeah, I love it when I see old people online. I love it. It gets me so excited. I don't even know why, but it's just so exciting for me, Like an eighty year old online, Oh my god, it's so cool to me. Well, and we were just talking last week about Jack in his experience with the internet. So mind you, we're in nineteen ninety seven and he's signing up for the Internet, and at that time he is probably seven twenty eight I think is he twenty eight? I think he's twenty eight. Yeah, nineteen twenty eight is when he was born, so he's not terribly old at that point, but he's getting up there.

4:13 He's getting up towards the seventies. But he's always been technologically sound, so you know that it didn't shock me that he was getting the internet. But how did he have the money to do something that most Americans couldn't afford to do at the time. I don't think my mom had one in ninety seven. I know my family didn't. There was absolutely yeah that was that was not a computer in the home. M I don't even think. I'm took my dad a bit longer to do. My grandmother got was the first one to get one, I know, because she was they retired to the beach, and she wanted to what sohow to communicate with everybody? So she got one and we and then we would email each other back and forth after so many years after she'd had her computer.

4:54 So that was a that the funnest thing emailing yes. I miss that, I do, I really do. I go back to my old original email, the first email I ever had, sometimes just to reminisce really. Yeah, And I had to in a case. One of the cases that I was working on was a will that had been forged and had been produced in twenty seventeen after being non existent. The man died in twenty fifteen, and in twenty seventeen this will pops up, and by twenty nineteen, my client is contacting me to render an opinion on the signature. So I went to the courthouse to view the will, and the will purported to have been made in two thousand and one, but it was extremely bright. I was like, Wow, this is the brightest white piece of paper that's twenty something years old that I've ever seen. So I am back and a woman.

5:44 I climbed into I kept an e and not an email file, if you will, but it was all emails in there from me and one of my best friends when we first got onto the internet and started emailing each other. And I had all of these emails from two thousand and one in that file, which has been kept in a filing cabinet all these years, basically protected from most things. But when I pulled them out, the variation and degree of yellowing that occurred from two thousand and one through like twenty seventeen was very apparent. Which one was from two thousand and one. So I went in and I snapshoted pictures of the will next to these different gradations of color on the emails that I had, and it mapped out literally to twenty seventeen. When my client says, you believe they built and forged this will, I was blown ut Like the whiteness of it was precisely twenty seventeen we lost, which is kind of unfortunate.

6:39 I couldn't believe a judge, somebody who probably handles documents more than anybody else that I would know of in my life, didn't understand that premise that there should have been aging on that paper that didn't occur, on top of the fact that the signature was a trace forgery. So a little disappointed, But sometimes these judges they think they know best and they're going to decide, yeah, we want to control Anyways, the rhetoric that I got yesterday was a brochure, say, voters, sign voters, your signature will help stop waste and fraud. Now ask me how I feel about that. The scare.

7:20 Anything that's targeting voters. They're up to something. Good morning, Nolan, welcome to the shows. Well, they want our signatures, obviously to place on the ballot. They say a Transparency Act, which is supposed to well we'll get to that, but just to read this stuff was quite comical, knowing what we've been dealing with and knowing that we can't control what any politician does. I mean, we saw newsome re rezone what is that redistrict California because he claims he wants to to uh pounce back at Trump for redistricting Texas in Florida? Will those people redistrict on their own? But he wants to call it Trump in order to you know, satiate his his constituents into voting to remove something we voted for before, which was allowing somebody other than politicians to handle the redistricting for voting purposes.

8:18 So do we really have any control? No, but I laugh that this is going to get it on the ballot, and even if we vote for it, what does that mean? Well, the letter that we read last week from the eighty year old basically stated that the d OJ was preventing the the igs from going in and investigating different frauds and wasteful spending and different things like what they mentioned, sex parties with the Obama administration and the DA and all of these things. So if they can still prevent it in the end, isn't this just meant to play on our emotions. Oh yeah, that's what. That's what. That's that's how they get to you. It's literally the easiest way is through your emotion. That's why it's so important when you're researching to set that emotion aside, like completely eliminate it from what you're doing, because if you don't, then you won't have you won't have that clear mindset to see what you need to do.

9:17 What you need to see. Yeah. Well, it goes on to say politicians have wasted billions on failed programs with too little to show for it. Californias can't afford to spend, can't afford more wasteful spending. That's why it's critical that you sign and return the official petition arriving soon in a separate envelope package. When you receive it, please fill it out carefully and return it promptly, because the deadline is approaching and it's urgent we qualify for the ballot to stop the politician's waste. I love the near empowerment that they're trying to imply with this, that is, if we actually do vote for it, that it's going to become something that we can then rely on or count on. I don't know who this organization is that's doing it.

9:58 But they went on to say voters can stop the politicians, I again giggled, from spending billions of our tax. The more signatures that get on the ballot, is that the deal. Yeah, I think he needs something like two hundred and fifty thousand signatures, right, right, So they're going to be sending this out. And of course, why wouldn't every single California sign this, Californian sign this, right, Why wouldn't everybody want to stop or bring accountability? But it says we can stop the politicians from spending billions of our tax dollars unfailed programs. Your signature will bring accountability and transparency and the waste California voters in the coming days that we see the blah blah containing official voter petition for the Transparency Act. This important measure is designed to help stop waste, sproaden abuse of our tax dollars and give voters the information we need to hold politicians accountable. The Transparent the Act will, it says, require independent financial audits of new taxes. But it's not going to provide people to stop the people who stop us from doing those audits that we saw in that twenty sixteen letter last week.

11:15 It says require audit results to be posted publicly, including in the voter information guide, and require new taxes to comply with California's state spending limit, ensuring excess revenues are refunded to taxpayers not handed to special interests either way. Is this where they say our vote counts. I just thought that was kind of kind of comical because right now they are talking about coming in and investigating California and Governor Newsom. I mean, we did see on one of those they used a beautiful picture of our downtown homeless camp in the actual brochure, and of course everybody is really kind of giving kudos to Newsome for his allowance and letting that the homeless can't continue. And what's at with that?

12:17 You could comment on politicians and the homeless issue. Yeah, it seems like everyone wants to throw money at it, to the point of spending one hundreds of thousand dollars for each homeless person and nothing ever helps. Why don't we try not spending a dime for like a year to see what happens. I mean, it's not I think we'll be about to say, and the problem is not ever going to go away no matter how much we spend. Now, well, if people are dead set on doing drugs and living on the streets and not you know, picking up and moving on and building something with their life, there's nothing we can do about that. I don't know how we could, you know, get them out, because I feel like if they didn't put any money towards the homelessness problem, that it, like you said, it's only going to get bigger. And then who's impacted by that? You know?

13:05 I feel bad for the people who have to live in, or around or walk past that particular homeless camp. It's a political football. It just you have to if you're electric politician. It's an issue with the public because people don't like seeing the homeless people. They're isores in there. They're actually I've been attacked by a homeless. God, I remember that. So it's a problem. But all the money that they throw out is to throw at it is not helping. That's at a point I know that here in Citrius Heights, and I found this out the hard way. One Thanksgiving I decided to get up and make a massive amount of breakfast burritos. I mean a massive amount. I probably spent a good four or five hours on this, and I went out to try and give them to the homeless people that were in the area. And it turns out Citrus Heights relocates the homeless during the holidays, so they don't play on our empathies so that they're not asking us. Yeah, I was like blown away. I could not find one homeless person to give a burrito too.

14:05 I had to drive thirty five minutes out of my way to Rialinda, you know what I'm talking about, Nolan, in order to find homeless camps in order to be able to pass out all of this food that I made. So it's interesting the tactics that they'll take and the money that they'll spend and do what they do. But then that's because they want us to not be handing our money to them, not to be empathetic for them, but to be out buying, you know, Christmas gifts for people, because that's what makes them money, not us helping somebody else out. Either way. Ah, here was another letter that was sent to me at one point in time. These are called the Hunter Thompson Gonzo Communications or Gonzo letters. The individual who sent them to me was under the impression there was a possibility that either A he was the Zodiac or b the Zodiac wrote these letters on Hunter Thompson's paper. I don't really recall, it's been so long ago since I I addressed it, and I know that when I was working on these letters, Terry Vee was extremely interested in them and had made comments about how you know, he believed that the little red heart statement in these letters led back to Jack Terrence because he had a heart on his arm for his mom.

15:17 Blah blah blah. I've been told that these letters were very consistent with the Dear Marco letter or the red Phantom letter that was too it was about Count Marco, which was I believe a columnist, Right, did I lose Nolan? I done lost Nolan writing a journalist question. Anyways, When I put these letters side by side, there are some I mean, I think that the most nagging characteristic that occurs is the way that he oh backwards, is the way that he carries off the end of one of his letters way down deep into the next line, which I wanted to be able to show people some differences here because he tangles a lot, And so we can see like in the word nothing here and this g is moving right into the word the This is somebody that is so busy, has so many fires or so many irons in the fire, that he doesn't know what to do with himself, and its it complicates the reading because it's dragging through the next line. That's nothing that you see happening really here inside of the red phantom letter.

16:29 While we do see it dipping down into the next line, it's not literally tangling up with the next word beneath it. So that's a very big difference in the graphological world when we're talking about space and use of space and how busy this individual over here is versus how not busy the person who's committing the serial killings are. And that's kind of I think that that was my thought every time they named somebody who was very busy, either making movies, making you know, documentaries, and starting nightclubs and doing all these things. These people are too busy to be out there praying on people and writing law enforcement. They've got better things to do with themselves. There you are, Nolan, you know, Count Marco, did you ever you did?

17:16 Yeah? Okay, he was in the chronicle. I believe he was a columnist. Columnists, Okay, so he basically just wrote articles for them or was he like writing like dear a letter. No, he answered letters, but he also wrote columns. He was very well known. And that's why the Zodiac wrote to it. Well, and he says the red Phantom says, since the Count can write anonymously, so can I. Yeah, Zodiac, that's a Zodiac letter, right, No. Yeah, But what I'm saying is is that he's he's he's intimating that Count Marco is writing under a pseudonym or some some is anonymously.

18:01 It's made up name. Yes, I forget that, Okay, that's what I was looking for them, right. I never checked them out because the same. Name as those up porn guys. What's that strip club? What? Yeah, yes, there's a famous strip club in San Francisco, Mitchell Brothers. He might have been related to them, I don't, I forget, But anyway, he just took on the name cam markup. Well. I was hoping by putting these letters side by side, that you could look at them and see the differences between the handwriting itself, and to note that those differences are pretty severe. And in the fact that this is the disguise that the Zodiac chose to use, which are these long, dragging tails and exit strokes that are occurring, is that we don't see things like the hyphenation and and some of the forms. Like Hunter Thompson, it looks to me like he always used a capital letter R.

19:11 And we've talked about this before that the Zodiac clearly wrote an all in proper capitalation for capitalization form with lowercase letters, and we don't see more or less these capital letter rs and things like that that were accidentally dropped in any of the communications. So when we found a capital letter R, it was obviously intended and it was a ruse and a disguise. It was not because he actually used that like we see in Hunter Thompson's writing. Story looks like this to relic the artists that accompanied him on the Kentucky Derby article, and they got a bunch of shenanigans, but they also did collaborating on other things, right.

19:54 Well, And when you read it it sounded like he was a little bit mad at him. Ralph wrote, yeah, yeah, okay, because he. Says things like the jokes over Ralph, you sucked on my back long enough, like, and he makes references to being pan sexual or having pants. But thanks anyway for this rotten pan sexual art. So deadman? Was he an artist? Yeah? Speak of the drawings for some of the Thompson articles, the most famous being the the what's it? The Kentucky Derby one that's where they almost got arrested, almost got killed and did a ton of drugs and liquor. Deedman wasn't used to that. Yeah, Thompson kind of turned him out a little bit.

20:47 Well, Thompson has a very interesting past, so it says. In nineteen sixty seven, shortly before the Summer of Love, Thompson wrote the Hashberries is the Capital of the Hippies for the New York Times magazine, and he criticized Sam Francisco's hippies is devoid of both the political convictions of the New Left and the artistic core of the Beats, resulting in a culture overrun with young people who spent their time in pursuit of drugs. The thrust is no longer for change or progress or revolution, but merely to escape to live on the far perimeter of a world that might have been, perhaps should have been and strike a bargain for survival in purely personal terms. He wrote later that year, Thompson is right. They provide us with whatever it is that they want to distract us with.

21:34 You know, they feed the inner cities with drugs. They throw cell phones into children's hands. It's something every decade, I think, says Later that year, Thompson and his family moved back to Colorado and rented a house and would he creaked a small mountain a hamlet outside Aspen and in early nineteen sixty nine, Thompson received a fifteen thousand dollars royalty check for the paperback sales of Hell's Angel and used a portion of the proceeds on a downpayan on a home and property where he would live for the rest of his life. It was one hundred and ten acre piece of land that cost him seventy five thousand, and he named the house Owl. Farman often described it as his fortified compound. So interestingly enough, while he was being accused I'm guessing of being the Zodiac, it shows that he was off in Colorado, not even in the California area. And then, of course I want to say that he spent a year let's see its notes. Purportedly, Oh and he purportedly committed suicide at the age of sixty seven. Let me see if I can figure out his output declined too. What's that.

22:40 A hundred timeson? Was a gun for a lots of guns? He also ran for sheriff of Aspen almost one. Yeah, yeah, no, that's what that's what That's what's in this rhetoric here. So this is what I'm saying, is that this man was far too busy. And I'm the things that I'm telling people about right now is literally how busy he was that he couldn't have been off doing what the Zodiac was doing. Oh so, yeah, says Thompson ran unsuccessfully for sheriff of Pitkin County in Colorado and in nineteen seventy on the freak power ticket. So he's clearly, during this very important time frame in Colorado running for a why a sheriff, I mean, of all things.

23:23 But he poured his heart and soul into that campaign too, so he had no time to do other stuff. No, and it says Thompson's output declined as he struggled with the consequences of fame and substance abuse and failed to complete several high profile assignments for Rolling Stone. For much of the late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties, he worked as a columnist for the San Francisco Examiner. So I think that's where people are putting together, but it's the wrong time frame, folks. Most of his work from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen ninety four was collected in the Gonzo Papers. He continued to write sporadically for outlets including Rolling Stone, Playboy, Esquire, in ESPN dot com until the end of his life. We already discussed him running.

24:06 He became known for his intense dislike of Richard Nixon, who he claimed represented the dark, venal, and incurably violent side of the American character. He covered George McGovern's nineteen seventy two presidential campaign for Rolling Stone and later collected the stories in book from book form as Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail seventy two, which was done in nineteen seventy three. He also did a bit on the Hell's Angels, but he literally went underground and was not underground. I'm sure they knew who he was, but he traveled with them. Basically, it looked like some of the things that he's done. That's it. Put it on the map. That book, the Hell's Angels book. But they he interfered in Angels, was beating up his girlfriend and interfered, and so a bunch of them kicked his ass and almost killed him.

24:58 Oh wow, And did you read that book? I haven't. I've read parts of it, not the whole book with it the book right here. Go the other direction. There you go. Gonzo Okay, he didn't write this. This is about all the people that knew him contributing chapters. About his Oh gotcha. And that's called the Gonzo Papers now just called Gonzo okay. So some other he wrote he wrote. Also, there's there's another compilation called The Great American Shark Hunt.

25:42 Is a compilation of different short stories, and there are mainly essays and and their their their non fiction and kind of new journalism style where he puts himself in the story. Gotcha. Well, so that I did see that kind of cross connected back and forth with Jack some of the things that he's done. But nineteen sixty one he was in Big Sir Hot Springs as a security guard. In nineteen sixty five, San Francisco, immersing himself in the drug and hippie culture, began writing for the Berkeley Underground paper The Spider, and I looked at that, like the underground is something that the Zodiac talks about in the Tom Voight letters. And then late nineteen sixty seven he moves back to Colorado and in nineteen sixty eight he writes about Lyndon B. Johnson. We know that Jack had a relationship with Lyndon B. Johnson, hunted on his ranch, was invited to his wedding to his wife. Wow, Woody Creek, Colorado. Right, that's what some of these things cross connected fairly well.

26:48 And I can get the points or the coincidences that are occurring. Yeah, it's too many of them sixty seven and they hate Ashbury too. That's where Manson started well, and the whole. Entire thing is that the period is wrong for the Zodiac for him being there and what he was doing at the time. It says he then moved to Woody Creek, Colorado, which we heard about him trying to become the sheriff. In nineteen eighty five, he's writing on couple's pornography research in San Francisco from mid eighties to nineteen ninety as a media critic for San Francisco Examiner. He wrote for Playboy Politics and Pornography in two thousand and that's all right up the alley, right, I mean Playboy Politics and Pornography.

27:33 And it was well known back when the Zodiac was authoring letters, and especially in the DV Cooper one, where it had been noted that the cutouts had been pulled from a Playboy magazine and that the FBI had scoured these What a job to have guys scouring the Playboy magazines for criminal activity? They say, anyways, two thousand and five, two thousand and five, amitst suicide? Or is suicided? I wrote down? But they did say recent developments? And this is interesting? Why In twenty twenty six, so there's an article that the Colorado Brewer of Investigation confirmed the original conclusion of suicide after a review requested by Thompson's widow, Anita.

28:18 This review found no new evidence or circumstances that would change the initial findings from two thousand and five. The investigation reaffirmed that Thompson had been suffering from chronic pain and depression prior to his death, and I'm great that they put out their chronic pain and depression. Now, if you'd said chronic depression, I might have found him in line for somebody who might commit suicide. But it sounds to me like his wife did not believe it was suicide. So that's why I wrote in there, or suicided, taking out whatever. If you might have been a shotgun to the base, oh. Boy, that would be a Chris Bush right, Oakland County child murders either way. Now, interestingly enough, we just looked at this this letterhead here that says Hunter S. Thompson at the top of these five x seven letters, and I low behold come up with pretty much the same type of paper that Jack has. Okay, yeah, Nolan, Nolan's.

29:26 You're gonna guess okay, he'd he backed out good anyways, all right, so Jack Heron's had his own actual letter head just like Hunter Thompson. I was like, wow, look at that. They both It must have been a thing back in the day for them to use. But this was approximately the same time frame this letter was. Let's see, found after December twenty third of nineteen ninety six. And this is a letter to Dennis, which is the person who brought me into this case, believing that his stepdad Jack was the suspect or the best suspect as the Zodiac. But I pulled one thing out of here is that he says, I'll probably talking to use guys and use guys as a mob term, and he spells it y o U s e use guys. I was like, that's interesting, Yeah, I think you, uh, you've chats on that before.

30:25 I think, uh, I forget what we were talking about before, but I remember seeing that term before. Yeah, well it's a it's a popular mob term, use guys. That's like, oh, that's why it was we're were talking about the mob. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so interesting to fight it in Jack's owner handwriting. But again, uh, we can see here where a lot of these extenders that we were talking about come down almost two the next line, but they don't tangle and overlap and and and cause confusion in the actual communication. So I find that Jack's writing is obviously much more consistent with the Red Phantom than a Hunter Thompson's. So, continuing on air Jack's Life, we're in December tenth of nineteen ninety seven. Now Dennis and Charles totaled the honder record at two thirty five am, when Charles was hit by a drunk driver at something that was out of Nora's diary. She also wrote on December eighteenth, nineteen ninety seven, that Flova, Jack's mother passes away this morning, so Jack and Charles fly back to Texas to make arrangements to Barrier, and Nora indicates that Flova never liked her even since the day she met Jack twenty six years ago. So this would actually confirm the statement that Jack and Nora met in nineteen seventy one, even though I didn't have any evidence supporting that they were together until nineteen seventy four, but by her own admissions in her diary, they had been together for twenty six years now. While let's see here, While well, I

32:00 don't know how long Jack was in Texas, but I threw in this other unsolved murder because he happened to have flown back at this point in time. On December nineteenth and nineteen ninety seven, we had twelve year old Michelle Presik and Valerie Lane in Spring, Texas is a missing person last seen at her residence, which many of the victims had been blonde hair, blue eyes, one hundred and thirty five pounds on a birthmark on the palm of her hand. On December twentieth, nineteen ninety seven, she was reported missing with an orange Tabby cat and a blanket. So whoever it was that took her took things to make her comfortable as well, including her cat and her blanket. Kind of reminds me of the John Bonnet ramsay wrapping her up in her blanket or you know, yeah, like ekey stuff. Also, Norik reconfirms that they break up. She's reconfirming what I say is that they break up only one time in nineteen ninety one, for three months in their twenty six year period. But I'm like, what about the worse in the eighties? Was that a ruse to protect assets or Jack's arrest for the assault with a deadly weapon against her and Dennis and the family. I know that there were many other occasions where it was supported that Jack was in a completely different place based on his mail and where it was going versus where Nora was. So she only says that they were only ever broken up for three months, but I show that that period actually lasted into nineteen ninety two based on her own diary, so some things are just a little wacky.

33:30 December twenty fourth of nineteen ninety seven, Jack and Charles return from Texas. So yes, they're there literally for two weeks from December tenth till December twenty fourth. So I've answered my own question. And they're driving back the Honda Civic that was left behind when they moved to California earlier this year. I had This is Suspect Zero. This is the DVD cover for one of the movies that I think very closely resembles some of the programs that we've been talking about and the possibility that Jack Terrence and the Zodiac Killer was some type of a program. Uh. The interesting part about this is that this is literally somebody's purportedly working for the government, obviously off the books, undercover, out there searching for I want to say, searching. He's remote viewing different serial killers and seeing in his mind their crimes through this process of hypnosis that was used in order to induce these visions, and then he could track that serial killer and then kill him. And then on the other side of it is the FBI trying to track him because they think he's the serial killer when in reality he's killing serial killers. So would people make the what's that?

34:49 It's crazy? It will And if you get the if you get the version with the special features, you will see that the program that was done by the military. One of the people who ran the program actually speaks on the remote viewing and what they do to use remote viewing to view setups of compounds in another country and they've literally been able to accurately lay out maps of the planes and buildings and the other things, and these people have never set foot in these places ever. So it's a very very interesting excerpt in the special features about remote viewing and how it works. And then of course it's being used in the movie Suspect Zero. A lot of the different attributes or characteristics about this individual who's playing the hunter of serial killers is very similar to Jack, from shiny shoes to pleted pants to I mean, I probably wrote down three pages of notes watching this movie on things that were coincidental about the zodiac and low and behold the actual emblem. Now, of course it doesn't have the cross symbol, but it has the zero with the slash mark through it, and it's labeled it is very similar, and it was very, very shocking to see that this program. And of course this is the one where I say that Harold Cooper from the Blacklist, he's the FBI not director, but like special agent for the Blacklist.

36:13 He plays the FBI director in this particular movie, and he's super super young and super skinny. Interesting. Now, this is where Dennis pipes up in his book and says that in nineteen ninety eight they moved back to Sacramento. Joanna owned an antique and collectible store at the time. One day I noticed that some of the old whiskey bottles that used to be full is now empty. I soon found out that Jack had started drinking again after seventeen years, and he had drank the whiskey that was in those bottles. I figured that Jack was an old man now and thought his drinking would be harmless. I had no idea what was about to happen. Jack was planning his next murder, my mother. To get away with this crime wouldn't be easy. Jack was going to murder his next victim, and he was going to do it in front of everybody without bringing suspicion upon himself. And to come where we.

37:07 Ad on time. No, yes, we do. I wanted to get into this. So December twenty fifth and then this is out of Nora's diary December twenty fifth, nineteen ninety seven, they had Christmas dinner in their office that they got I don't know how. So again we show them moving from from wherever it was at this point in time, I think it was Texas back to California, and he's renting or leasing a shop let alone a place from somebody who's not working with no money. Again, I'm just I'm dumbfounded at how he's capable of getting these things done, which was also kind of interesting. They're having Christmas dinner in their office while Dennis believed his office to be in actual living space too in Orangeville on Greenback and Hazel when I was working with him, he literally had rented a space for a cell shop or a cellular phone repair shop, and he was literally living out of it and purchasing storage sheds to sell things. But that might it might be Jack that Dennis got that idea from that that was something that was okay to do. I think that these were the black I think this is the last words we're going to hear from Nora from December twenty fifth of nineteen ninety seven, because I did not have any other diaries from her after that. On January twentieth, nineteen ninety eight, we see Jack writing letters in regards to Flow as a state, and he's using the address of thirty three fifty Auburn Boulevards, Space thirty nine,

38:39 which confirms he is back and that is his location with his RVaR motor home or whatever it is he's pulling up and living in at this point. Because this is that when you and I were talking about last week, no one that was on Watt and Auburn and you just basically drive up your own rig kind of thing, right, It's right. So what I thought was interesting about this is that what Jack was up to because we might be looking at him like he was an old man after his you know, congestive heart failure issues and the hospitalization in early nineteen ninety seven, but this letter kind of tells me that this man is up and running once again. So it's set to Jim, which is an attorney, and I think who is handling the estate, probably for his mom, and it says Hi, Jim, I talked to Sandra at the County Clerk's office there in Bastrup about changing the deed into my name, but she said that I should talk to you about what is required. Mom passed away December eighteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and we had her funeral December twenty second in Lockhart, which that confirm when we go back. Yeah, so they returned two days after the funeral. Basically I only Orangeville, not just a couple of months. They moved back to California in nineteen ninety seven, which was extremely interesting to me because why would Jack, in the end days of his mom pick up and move. It would had to have been norm

40:11 that wanted to do so. In Uri, because my family's had three properties out there right by the intersection of Greenback and Hazel, One on Cafesia by the cemetery there, one on Arbardi by Phoenix Field. Okay, so the Greenback in Hazel was Dennis and that was his cell shop. That wasn't Jack. Jack is on Auburn. But it says I just got the certified death certificates last Friday. Please let me know if I should send one of them to you for filing the deed or what. Also if you remember, one fourth of the place would be J. C. Cade's. Supposedly, my sister e Sue Caid was married to him, but I think that she was living with him and took his name. I made a trip to Reno, Nevada and Las Vegas, Nevada to try to find a marriage license, but no luck. Then I went to Los Angeles to try to find a divorce with no luck. Spent three days down there. I located two people to sign the Affidavid, swearing that my sister was not living with anyone from the time that they met her nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety two, when Sue passed away. They are man and wife Domingo and Lucy Reyis of Austin. Or if man and wife won't do, Lucy's boss, Ray Grego, general manager of ex On Oil Company USA Austin division, would sign an AFFI David. They all live in Austin, so could the affidavids be made up and sent to them to have them notarized or will they need to come to your office. I talked to Lucy and Domingo while I was there for Mom's funeral and they are willing. I have not talked to

41:43 Ray Grego, but I'm sure he would sign one. He is Lucy's boss used to be mine, It used to be his boss. So evidently at some point in time he worked for ex On Oil, Sue's and Domingo's boss also at Exon in Austin. So Jim, please let me know what I can do. My interesting take on this is that we know that he went out to Texas, obviously to do the burial of his mother, but then at some point in time afterwards, he's not only gone to Reno, Nevada, Las Vegas, Nevada, to Los Angeles. He's all over the place once again, traveling, and within maybe a week or so, he said he spent three days in Los Angeles, so who knows how many days he spent in the other locations. But he's clearly on the run doing all kinds of things. So February first, nineteen eighty eight, Jack is mailing a creditor of Flovis and the address he is now using as a PEO box in Citrus Heights, which I'm not I mean, I don't know why you would have a PEO box in Citrus Heights if you're living out of Watton Auburn. That didn't make a lot of sense to me. These are these areas are substantially far from one another for mailing purposes unless his office was located in that area. On February ninth to fourteenth, nineteen ninety eight, Jack has airline receipts for flying back to Texas with a car rental that he is still used using the eight hundred Neldas Street address.

43:02 So now I'm starting to think the Nelda Street address is his mom's and that's the one he's attempting to obtain the deed to so he can either sell or who knows, probably passes it off to a family member, so he still has a home base when he goes back there, and he is using Jack W. Terrence once again. So we saw this flip flop in nineteen ninety seven from Jack Terrance to John Terrence to Jack Torrance and then Terrence with a TE instead of a TA, all of these different names that are being used back and forth. February third of nineteen ninety eight, we have a phone bill from AT and T in Charles Terrence's name. However, the record was kept and paid by Jack Terrence, so either Jack could can get another phone wrecord or another phone number, and or this is Charles's phone that he's paying for. February fourth to December third of nineteen ninety eight, Jack is writing checks in his and Nora's name us in the thirty three to fifty Auburn Boulevard address, So again we've got him basically toggling back and forth between two different locations. On March ninth of nineteen ninety eight, Jack executes a promisory note with Califia Bilquist for four hundred dollars using the address of forty six oh eight Album Boulevard Sweet four. I think this might actually be the business address because I believe it puts him closer possibly to the Citrus Heights Post office versus the Auburn.

44:33 Auburn's very long, everybody. It runs quite a distance through Sacramento on into Citrus Heights and all the way down into Roseville, so it's a very very long street. On March twenty fourth of nineteen ninety eight, Jack receives request for clarification of death of his siblings, presumably in the estate of Flova, and he's still using the thirty three point fifty Auburn Boulevard address, and he's receiving these letters from Texas. Now we start to see on June eleventh. In June of nineteen ninety eight, we start to see more unsolved murders pop up again. An well, this one is an unfidentified human scale to remains on the six hundred block of Airline Drive, Conrod, Texas. Because it's not identified, we have no idea when this person went missing or was killed. But there was a most recent female that was missing, and that was Michelle Prasik and Jessica Kin.

45:26 June twenty eight to nineteen ninety eight, eight year old Robert Ray Middleton goes missing off the eleven thousand block of Crossnow Drive in Cleveland, Texas. Attack occurred along a wooded trail. Suspect used gasoline and set him on fire while he was alive, burning over ninety five percent of his body. He succumbed to his injuries on April twenty ninth, twenty eleven. I don't understand that I wrote check the date, because that doesn't make any sense that he was attacked on nineteen ninety eight. Oh well, maybe he had that many years. That would have been thirty. Sears. Yeah, right, and I would assume that's lots of surgeries, lots of pain, lots of everything. August sixth of nineteen ninety eight, unidentified human skeleton remains in the twenty one thousand block of Baptist Encampment Road in New Kiney, Texas.

46:20 Children playing in an abandoned house found remains on top of the ground in the doorway. This area was flood prone. The school was evidence of a previous autopsy. That blew my mind, Like, so, there's somebody else, right those who has any clue how this ended up where it ended up, or how somebody else had already done an autopsy on it and then it ends up dumped somewhere. That's eight. Yeah, So I think before going on with anything else, we can pick up on the rest of this stuff next week. We got a couple of minutes. Any comments or questions or anything that we'd like to cover, I'm okay.

47:04 So just my latest book is another Black Dahlia book, and it's written by a very good writer, and she's a great researcher, and she has a whole different take than hodel Son. She has two other suspects, Mark Hanson, this nightclub owner and kind of a from a Nordic background who was a gangster as well, who had lots of girlfriends and had Elizabeth Short stayed at his house on Carlos Street in LA for a while. And this woman Anne Tooth, who was her friend, Elizabeth Short's friend, but he was also a girlfriend of Hanson, and they pinpoint the murder locale as this place, the Astrotel in Los Angeles, these little bungalows, and Elizabeth was in the number three and the owner's throng. Lots of blood and feces and all kinds of stuff in that particular room, but they didn't notify the cops ptil two years later.

48:12 I want that makes me want to search my presentation because I know, I just feel like, instinctively I've heard this word. So let's look while we're doing this and see if we find Mark Hanson, because I feel like this has definitely come up before. Yeah, and he's the prime Well, he and this other guy named Dylan, a younger guy Hanson. Basically, Dylan worked for Hanson. Yeah. So in July nineteen forty six, Short moves to Long Beach, California, lived with Mark Hanson at the Florentine Gardens October and November of nineteen forty six, stayed with Dorothy French in San Diego December of nineteen forty six and Chancellor Apartments eighteen forty two, North Cherokee. And then see Cherry Joe Breach type written describes just murder and the posing of the body. Okay, so yeah, I have seen the Mark Hanson mess uh oh. That puts us our last one, last second. But it does go on to say address book was said to be embossed with Mark Hanson. There's there's a lot of information about Mark Hanson there, so absolutely correct, Were gotcha And we can maybe cover that once you get a little more into the book. But we are done with today's episode, so I want to thank everybody for being here, and we will get back with you next Friday on this and if you come up with anything more interesting out of that book, I'd love to hear it. Thank you, Okay,

49:42 thank you. Take care everyone thing And family loved