June 6, 2025

Follow Up, I-45 Murders, and Jack

Follow Up, I-45 Murders, and Jack
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More info on Peter Wilson’s wrongful conviction. Follow up on The Killing Fields Documentary of Robert Able, Clyde Hedrick, and Tim Miller from 2022. Following Jack’s movements as he goes back and forth between California and Texas. Jack’s presence at Hewlett Packard as a Seargent in the security department making a whopping $312.00 bi-weekly almost suggests that this is a part-time job at best leaving a lot of free time for Jack. Meanwhile, murders are ramping up in Texas.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac

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to Welcome to the show today, Harriet Soousche, Good morning.

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I felt like Caat, I felt like Kat and a

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hat there and almost rhymed, let's welcome to the show today,

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Harriet Soouche. Anyways, I know Nolan said he was going

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to be here, although I did have a good conversation

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with him yesterday in regards to the follow up we're

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going to discuss so if no one comes in, we'll

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we'll introduce him to the show. At that point, he

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did say he'd be here, But I'm actually leaving off

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on last week's follow up with the Tim Miller situation

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and the Texas killing fields, so I wanted to kind

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of just recap the docuseries that I saw with Tim

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Miller in regards to the different suspects and victims, because

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it actually yielded some good information. It helped to actually

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take a couple of murders off the books. So I'm

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just gonna briefly go through that, and then we're going

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to climb right back into the follow up for the

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Peter Wilson wrongful conviction because that got exponentially more interesting.

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For you too for that case.

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Yay, okay, all right, well, so let me let me

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get through this real quick, and then we're going to

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hop right into that. So on the it's on Netflix,

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and it's crime scene the Texas Killing Fields in Galveston,

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Leed City, Dickinson and I forty five killer, So basically

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on Calder Road on an oil field. As Harriet had stated,

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I believe you said that you thought that that was

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a former Phillip sixty six station.

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Yeah, yeah, that was a former Phillip sixty six pump

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Jack station. So when I started coding that, I said,

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once I saw that Jack has got some information, that's

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what I will.

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See pump Jack. Hmm okay, yes. So so basically the

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bodies were laid out under trees as if they were posed.

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And that's something that we've talked a lot about in

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regards to Black Dahlia, the Oakland County child killer cases,

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like these bodies being out in the open and posed

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in a certain manner. So this actually set them of

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this particular killer for the killing fields. Aside from who

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we're going to hear further in what they talk about

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on this documentary. So one of the suspects was Clyde Hedrick,

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and that is the one that Tim Miller actually sued

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for a wrongful death, even though Clyde Hedrick had only

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been associated with I think it was abuse of a corpse,

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and that was in regards to Ellen Beeson. He supposedly

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had gone to the bar and they'd hung out, and

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then after that they went to go swimming, and of

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course he says that he looks into the water and

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there she is floating. He doesn't know what to do

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with her. He picks her up, he's going to take

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her to the hospital, but then he gets scared and

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he ends up dumping her in a field underneath a

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couch and some tires. So that is what ultimately gets

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him in trouble. For that, I think that they did

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actually exume that body and determine that there was a

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blow to the head that could not have happened if

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she had just dove in the water, so almost as

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if to say that he had hit her with something.

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But again we won't know the truth of any of that.

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So the victims were in the Texas Killing Fields. The

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victims were Heidiville real Fi and she went missing October

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nineteen eighty three. Found April sixth, nineteen eighty four because

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a dog had brought back a skull to its owner.

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Victim number two, which is Jane Doe. We now actually

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have names. I've been waiting all these years for names,

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or for them to finally figure out who Jane Doe

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and Janet Doe is from these series, and we have

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their names now. So Jane Doe found nineteen eighty six

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was they found a twenty two caliber bullet lodged in

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her spine. Her name is Audrey Lee Cook and she's

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thirty years of age. They did actually find a blue

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plaid shirt, as I'd indicated before, that's probably missing. I

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think that that's what it said. I've typed it up

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as it's missing now, So this shirt used to exists,

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but of course no DNA testing can be done on it,

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because now that we have the technology, the shirt is gone.

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Victim number three was Laura Miller. She went missing September

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tenth of nineteen eighty four and found in nineteen eighty six,

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basically right where Tim had been trying to coax everybody

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to look for her. So here she is in the

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Killing Fields. Victim number four is Janet Doe. She's the

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second well found in nineteen ninety one. Her name is

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Donna Prudehom and she was thirty four years of age.

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Now by nineteen ninety one, Robert Abel owns and runs

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a trail riding horse business, which I believe is Stardust

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Trail Rides, and he owns two properties next to the

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Killing Fields at this point, and he does eventually end up,

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I think, buying that particular property. So he was responsible

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for creating the Saturn Rocket because he worked for NASA,

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as Harry stated, And by nineteen ninety one he owned

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the Killing Fields, so he didn't technically own those in

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the beginning, and that's what I discovered through the documentary.

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Victim number five we thought was Laura Smithers. Now, of course,

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she was dumped in a completely different location, not where

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these other bodies were, and that's what kind of sat

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her apart. She went missing on April third, nineteen ninety seven,

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in Friendswood, Texas, and she was found near a waterway.

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And that's why I had included her in this particular presentation,

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because we know the zodiac had a lot of waterway associations. However,

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we did actually find out that she is. Now it

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has been claimed that where's his name? Bill Reese has

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taken responsibility for Laura Smithers, Jessica Kaine, and Kelly Cox.

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So these are three murders that I can remove from

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the presentation, and I feel fairly secure in doing so

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because it isn't just a confession where some of these

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individuals will confess to things they didn't do. He actually

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was on I think he was looking at the death

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penalty for another murder, and it turned out that he

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was offered to take the death penalty off the table

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if he showed them where the bodies were to these

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other victims, and he then did so. He showed them

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where Laura's Smothers was and where Jessica Kaine was and

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Kelly Coxy accepted responsibility for these murders. So that's kind

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of an update here on those. Even though they're much later,

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they're in the nineties. Again, that's what sets them apart

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from the killing fields. The killing fields were in the eighties.

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I really kind of now pay a lot of attention

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to this finale letter, the two thousand and five one,

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because it specifically said there was other people killing in

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the eighties. It wasn't definitely. Now we're actually seeing yeah,

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now we're actually seeing proof that there were other killers

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operating at the same time. But they weren't dumping in

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the same manner. They were hiding the bodies just like

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Clyde Hedgerock did so our killer. I believe for these three,

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the Heidiville Real, well, actually it's four, so it's the

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two Jane and Janet Doe, Laura Miller, and Villa Real

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five were all actually dumped in the killing fields, whereas

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everybody else was in different locations. But around that area.

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Let's see, there was a push to get fingerprints. And

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one of the things I did notice is that they

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stated at this time when they found Laura Smithers, is

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that it created a huge push for the school systems,

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and for everybody to take DNA samples and swabs. I

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remember this, like vaguely remember this back in the late nineties,

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the big push to get your children's finger prants, to

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get a DNA swab, to have all of these things

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on hand in case something happened to them, you could

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provide that git to law enforcement in hopes to find them.

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So there was a huge push for that. The murders

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then take off again in nineteen ninety seven. I really

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thought that this was a shoe in for Jack, because

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we know Jack returned in nineteen ninety seven. I believe

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that's when his mom died Floa or he had gone

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back to start taking care of her again ninety six hish,

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ninety seven ish before she passed away, So he was

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actually back in Texas. And there may be some there

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that we're going to talk about that he can be held,

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you know, or the proximity says that it's possible that

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he is the killer of those individuals and we'll get

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to them at that time. It looks like Tim Miller

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also he started with Clyde Hedrick as a suspect, and

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then he moved on to Robert Abel and evidently he

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was pounding the crap out of at least mentally pounding

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the crap out of Robert Abel and he ends up,

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actually Robert Abel ends up having to file a restraining

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order against Tim Miller to leave him alone. He's not

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the killer, He's not I'm not who you're looking for.

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And at some point in time, Tim Miller actually apologizes

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to Robert Abel. I believe this is in two thousand

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and five. I believe. I'm not sure if it's before

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or after. I would love to talk to Tim in

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regards to some of this, but he hasn't responded as

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whether or not that letter for the finale letter in

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two thousand and five came in before or after his

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apology to Robert Abel, and maybe after. And that's why

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he apologized, because the letter now coming from the suspect

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or killer of his daughter, is indicating that Robert abeles

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not the devil, that the blue sid you know, Blue Fuzz,

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is looking for kind of thing. So let's see here.

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And that we could get some more when I start,

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when I send you some of this stuff, then you'll

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understand a little bit more about how the evidence is

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telling the story. Yeah, I got eighty six. The names

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that you're saying were determined later. They apparently the government

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people already knew who was.

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There who Jane and Jeda done, Oh yeah, what you're saying, Okay, okay.

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Yeah, I'll send that to you because I don't want

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to confuse the listeners. I've already got gotcha, So let's

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just move, you know, guys, I don't want to because

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you're bringing up so much pertinent information here and this

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this is how you do this, right when you line

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out everything and then go and start for me, it's

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going to start decoding right well.

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In Mayam nineteen ninety seven is when all of this

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kind of came together. Sandra S. Paul was abducted by knife.

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Her car was acting up after a strange as she

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ran after she ran into a strange man at a

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convenience store, and all of that sounded very zodiac like, right,

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you know, manipulation of the car, the convenience store, all

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of these things seemed to run in tandem. So it

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was it was it was purposeful that they made the

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actual presentation. And so at any at any point, I

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guess that he says, you've got a flat tire, Can

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I help you. So again, we know that the Kathleen

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John's situation was a tire that had been loosened. The

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wheel had been loosened from the car, so she was

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actually put into this guy's truck, jumped out, and on

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October sixteenth of nineteen ninety seven, she identifies Bill Reese. So,

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now Bill Reese is the one I said that he

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had got off of the death penalty by showing them

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where the bodies were of Laura Smithers, Jessica Kane, and

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Kelly Cox. Now I'm not sure he actually showed him

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where Kelly Cox was or just accepting culpability for it,

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but he did show him where Lauris Smithers and Jessica

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Kaine was. Now Bill also leads PD to her body

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in exchange for death penalty. In an unrelated murder case,

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police view views something like sixty two hundred pictures belonging

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to Abel, so they've literally done a search on him

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quite like they did with Arthur Lee Allen and found

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nothing in all of his messes stuff. They and one

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of the guys commented that he had looked through sixty

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two hundred pictures and nothing showed anything. Nefarius on Robert

221
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Abel's end in.

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Two anyways, keep going.

223
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I know, I know, I know, I'm just putting out

224
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I'm not saying that the media is always correct and

225
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what they're saying. This is just what the media is

226
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leading us to believe at this point.

227
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That he then even trying to get help. Robert Abel

228
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is so that's why he's allowing all this to happen,

229
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you know, And in hindsight when I see this, he's

230
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allowing all this to happen, like please rest me, stop me.

231
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.799
No, he's actually he's trying to help them, and of course.

232
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Exactly and inviting himself out there.

233
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But not everybody who offers to help is somebody that's

234
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a killer. There are good people out there that can

235
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take an interest. I saw the investigative reporter on this

236
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Texas killing fields. She kept clippings, she followed everything, she

237
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ran around injecting herself into the case. Nobody called her

238
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a murderer. So that's what I'm saying. People can't keep

239
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using the fact that just because he assisted gave his

240
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.159
courses and gave him, you know, freedom to his property,

241
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to say that that makes him a killer. I really

242
00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.360
just don't honestly believe yes, some do inject themselves into

243
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.240
the case so that they can follow what's going on.

244
00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:50.799
There are people who do that have no relation to

245
00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.120
the murder whatsoever. Ooh, let's welcome Nolan to the show.

246
00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.000
Hello, Nolan, I see the site.

247
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Good morning everybody, sir.

248
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That's okay. We're we're just finishing up with the killing

249
00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:04.879
fields and then we're going to hop over to the

250
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.679
follow up on Peter Wilson. So basically, in two thousand

251
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.759
and five, Tim Miller apologizes to Able and then and

252
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then Able for whatever reason, purportedly commits either suicide or

253
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his or his quad breaks down on the train tracks

254
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and he is hit by a training killed. So again

255
00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.360
we're not sure was that self homicide or was that

256
00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.440
just mechanical failure? Right right, I mean, there's got to

257
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:37.559
be something going on there, would let mine? Yeah, Carols,

258
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:45.080
it is fluffy. It is rather fluffy. So in July

259
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.120
nineteen to two thousand and five is when the accident

260
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:52.279
happens with Robert Abel and by September two thousand and

261
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.039
five the finale letter. I think I just answered that myself. Now,

262
00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.279
So the apology was given obviously in two thousand and five,

263
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.840
but previous to him dying, and then September two thousand

264
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.720
and five is when the finale letter comes. It ruled

265
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.840
out Clyde Hedrick as a possible author. Okay, so I'm

266
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:12.919
sorry Clyde Hedrick. At one point in time, Tim Miller

267
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.840
had a private investigator, I believe his name was Bill Young,

268
00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.159
who came out and visited and spent a couple days

269
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.360
with me going over the presentation that I have on

270
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.000
the Zodiac versus Tim Miller's letter. And then he asked

271
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.440
me to do a handwriting analysis of Clyde Hedrick's handwriting,

272
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.240
and that was provided by Clyde's ex wife, So I

273
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.759
did have access to look at Clyde's handwriting and I

274
00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.879
could rule Clyde out as the Zodiac. And I think

275
00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:40.159
that once I made the connections between the two thousand

276
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.240
and five finale letter and the Zodiac, that's when Tim

277
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.080
started trying to figure out if he could put Clyde

278
00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.440
Hedrick here in California, which I don't know that he

279
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:53.000
ultimately could by any means. But after doing the handwriting,

280
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:54.879
I know that I can rule Clyde out as the

281
00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.039
possible author of the Zodiac letters. But you cannot rule

282
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.080
out Zodiac wrote Tim tim Finale letter, which I honestly

283
00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.480
believed that he really did. There was also Triple X

284
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.639
I'm gonna call it Triple X videos or DVDs. Found

285
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.360
that Laura Miller's Laura Miller's makeshift grave in the Killing Fields,

286
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:16.000
and I found similar similar DVDs. At least I thought

287
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.200
somebody actually brought to my attention that I'm we might

288
00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.360
have been sitting on CDs, not DVDs, and that's why

289
00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.960
we couldn't get them to play in the computer. We

290
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.679
would have had to have put them. Yeah, So, and

291
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.519
I am now I'm upset because I never tried playing

292
00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:32.919
it as a CD. But it could be very likely

293
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:34.759
that that's what we were sitting on and it may

294
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:37.279
have had information on it that we could have used

295
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:38.399
to some degree.

296
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.440
I still have Denis the stuff that I ended up

297
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:46.159
getting back, you know, twice. I'm gonna have to look

298
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.879
in that again, see what I can find with the

299
00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.679
with the CDs or DVDs, because I'm wondering if that's

300
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.679
there or some of the files that I know Dennis

301
00:16:55.720 --> 00:17:02.159
said shared with me. So I'm gonna just look, okay, because.

302
00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:03.399
Yeah, I know that Dennis how died.

303
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:03.639
I know.

304
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:05.319
We tried to run it through a couple of different

305
00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.039
computers at mynmals. He tried running it too, and we

306
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:11.200
couldn't get anything to play. So that is a valid

307
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:16.680
Either our technology had surpassed that particular CD DVD or

308
00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:19.279
we were literally sitting on something that was just a

309
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:22.440
vocal recording. It was just audio, it wasn't actually a video.

310
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.799
Who knows. I know that till Miller turned his over

311
00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.839
with the letter I believe to law enforcement a League

312
00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.119
City PD, and all of that stuff has gone missing.

313
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:38.799
So let's la. Yeah. Uh now I'm going to go

314
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:43.680
in here and I'm going to stop this share and share.

315
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.839
Our next screen is that share.

316
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.319
Share hello again, just in case I went off the

317
00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:53.839
screen for a second.

318
00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.240
Right, I need it up for myself. There we go,

319
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:04.720
and let's go with that one. Wooooo all right. It

320
00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:06.160
is a whole lot of information.

321
00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:06.599
Boy.

322
00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.440
I got two packages from mister Wilson in regards to

323
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:13.400
his face, and everything just got extremely more interesting. And

324
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.519
I'm thinking to myself, like, what is going on in

325
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.400
our world that people can get away with this? Anyways,

326
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.599
we have identified him as Peter E. Wilson. I've just

327
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.839
asked him for his middle name to find out what

328
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.000
his middle name is. It could very well be I'm

329
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:31.359
in lau right. I mean, we'll see how it comes out.

330
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.519
But he was thirty one years of age in nineteen

331
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.599
ninety six, from what I could tell he was working.

332
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.400
He was working for hospitals as a laboratory assisted while

333
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.079
going to Stanford University. His date of birth nine thirty,

334
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.599
nineteen sixty four, he claims, And I asked him specifically

335
00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:51.960
about the different name changes and the legal name change

336
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.480
and the different birthdates that were being produced in the media,

337
00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:56.799
because I thought maybe the media had been the ones

338
00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:58.880
to get that wrong. But it turns out that he

339
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.640
said that claims. He claims that Officer, you're intentionally fabricated

340
00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.000
half a dozen stories using different names and birthdates. You're

341
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.839
claim that the County Jail used an old computer system

342
00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.359
that would not accept changes, so the birthdate was entered

343
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.319
incorrectly to reflect nineteen fifty four, and because the system

344
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:19.759
did not accept changes, that that placed his birth date

345
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.359
as nineteen fifty four and could not be changed at

346
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:27.039
that point in one of the what's that That.

347
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:28.480
Doesn't sound right?

348
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.079
No, but you've got a police officer who's telling the

349
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.799
courts that the courts don't know the difference, right, they

350
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:36.559
don't know what's going on in the police department. He

351
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.400
could say anything he wanted, but yeah, he tried to

352
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.599
say that it accidentally got entered incorrectly and now it

353
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.279
can't be changed because the system doesn't allow for changes.

354
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.920
That makes no sense at all to me.

355
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.279
Right, You would think you could update all the.

356
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:55.839
Time, right, right. So basically, one of the interviews that

357
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.200
I saw by the private investigator was a friend of

358
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.599
Wilson's name Claude. I actually saw too, a Sharif and

359
00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.559
a Claude. Both of these individuals lived at the previous house.

360
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.240
They rented rooms in a previous house to Hawk Duke

361
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.799
Kim's house, but kept in contact with each other even afterwards,

362
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:17.200
so they would still hang out, get together for food,

363
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.720
and they were still good friends even after they've parted

364
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.720
ways or good acquaintances as one would have put it.

365
00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.039
And one of those friends, Claude, had indicated that he

366
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.559
believes that Wilson is from Canada, or at least that

367
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.119
was the perception. So we don't have him coming from

368
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:35.039
a foreign country, as you know suggested, which would now

369
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.640
make sense as to why he claims a race as

370
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:42.960
being white. Now, William MOREL. Coleman is not black per Coleman,

371
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.799
per Wilson, but didn't look white either, even though the

372
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:50.400
police report indicates that he was a white male and

373
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:53.640
it's any Wilson said he could be any other race,

374
00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:56.720
but he was approximately fifty five years of age. His

375
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.799
background was a former dishwasher at Messluno in Mountaine, California,

376
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.480
and he rented a room from Kim for four hundred

377
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.400
and fifty dollars a month. They did take a rape kit,

378
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.440
blood and DNA from Coleman. It was tested and after

379
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.720
testing it for whatever reason Lynda Ruth Condron filed a

380
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.480
motion in court to exclude the evidence of finding semen

381
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:20.799
and sperm on Kim and withheld the test results of

382
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.920
the DNA testing on the specimen and the sperm from

383
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.640
the defense, as well as the as the test results

384
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.759
on Coleman, which just make absolutely no sense. I mean,

385
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:35.480
we should be quitting. That's an ethical, completely onethough call.

386
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.839
I mean, your whole job is to present a good case,

387
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:43.160
not a what you want to case. And it appears

388
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.319
as though she was looking to remove the thought or

389
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.559
idea from the jury altogether that there could be a

390
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.200
third party involved with this. And I just don't even

391
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:54.720
see on the evidence that they have how they could

392
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:57.359
have came to a conclusion that Wilson was guilty, because

393
00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.799
none of it is really making sense after going back

394
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:01.519
to that, and I'm going to show you, guys how.

395
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.119
So Coleman denied saying Kim had been dead for four

396
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:07.720
to five hours on the nine to one to one

397
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.319
call until the tape was played. Then he lied several

398
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.480
times about why he said that. So I found that interesting.

399
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:16.440
I have read his transcripts. It is in here. I

400
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.519
will flash through them so that you can pause your

401
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:20.839
video as we go through in lieu of trying to

402
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.319
read all twenty eight pages. But you will find that

403
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:29.400
the testimony from Coleman didn't really it didn't really insinuate

404
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.200
at all that Wilson was the killer. All it really

405
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.200
insinuated was that he knocked on my door once and

406
00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:41.680
said he found Kim. But Coleman was home before Wilson was.

407
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:45.519
So Wilson comes home, finds her, tries to get Coleman's attention.

408
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.519
Coleman isn't answering the door Wilson basically barges in and

409
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:54.000
opens the door up and there's Coleman standing fully dressed shoes, pants, shirt,

410
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.000
sweatshirt in a house where he's not allowed to wear shoes.

411
00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.519
Got to remember, she's Asian. There's no shoes allowed in

412
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:02.119
the house. But he's standing in his bedroom fully dressed

413
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:05.119
with shoes on, after what he claimed was one single

414
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.079
knock with no words from Coleman or from Wilson. Sorry,

415
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.960
so that gets even more interesting. Uh?

416
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.279
Yes, why is Coleman on ankle bracelet?

417
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.960
I think that he went on an ankle bracelet in

418
00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:24.319
order to track him while the trial or while the

419
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.720
investigation was going on.

420
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:29.000
So evidently he still was kind of a suspect then.

421
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.599
I think so. And I think when they lost that

422
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.359
opportunity when he cut that bracelet and ran off to Mexico,

423
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.039
that they now lost their other alternative. They needed to

424
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:42.640
pend it on somebody. Basically, yeah, they don't have the

425
00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:46.599
other suspect. Yeah, it would be interesting.

426
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.240
McNab's wife killed herself in Florida. They had to pin

427
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.119
it on someone, so they pinned on Sarah.

428
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.160
Gutra, gotcha. Yeah, they're they're looking for somebody to settle

429
00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:59.079
that case out on either way. I mean, it doesn't

430
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.960
scream justice, it doesn't scream the truth to manipulate things

431
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.079
to get that case to have an end resolve that

432
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.720
you that you want versus the truth.

433
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.279
To interject at this point, if you like, go for it. Okay,

434
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.880
you ask me to just try to do my thing

435
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.480
like I would do, and no offense. Pretend you're Dennis,

436
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.079
and then entered the names that I do and try

437
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:27.799
to see what I come up with. I kept on

438
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:33.079
coming up with William Morrow as in a company, a

439
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.440
publisher company that ends up being bought by the first

440
00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:40.720
people in eighty and I sorry, nineteen eighty one. I

441
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:43.759
got eighteen eighty one in my head. Long story, but anyways,

442
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.799
in nineteen eighty one and so I said, okay, why

443
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.079
is this coming up over and over and over again

444
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.759
when I'm trying to do my searches. Then I find

445
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:57.440
out that they had a zodiac Arthur trying to get

446
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:01.160
their versions of who the zodiac is is around when

447
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.599
Dennis and you and I are on line trying to

448
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:09.599
get their books sold. So I said, this is weird. Okay,

449
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.720
I'm trying to remember who the author is. So let's

450
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.599
just get past that. I said, Okay, I think I'm

451
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.839
seeing something that there's you know, just like this guy

452
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.519
officer your has been on TV numerous times for being

453
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:29.400
wrong and you know, doing shows on cases from that area.

454
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.680
I've seen them. So anyways, now the other update is,

455
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:40.079
since the place of Canada is brought up and Wilson

456
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.079
thinks something about the guy the friend to Canada, I put.

457
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:50.480
Now, Wilson Wilson is from Canada. Yes, he believes Wilson

458
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:51.319
is from Canada.

459
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.240
Okay, that's what I came up with. Okay, my apologies

460
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.680
to the families. But there is a William I'm sorry,

461
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:06.880
William Coleman who's who had who had been in Canada,

462
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.119
was living in Canada but was also having something now

463
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:13.720
in the United States. And his wife is with a

464
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.640
very Korean sounding name. But both of than my believer,

465
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:17.480
are now deceased.

466
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:24.079
No, no, no, Wilson Wilson is from Canada, not Coleman.

467
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.720
I have no knowledge where Coleman comes from.

468
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.799
Okay Coleman, Okay, So, so Wilson is supposed to be

469
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:33.519
from Canada.

470
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.240
Yes, and that was based on an interview that a

471
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.880
private investigator had with his friend Claude because it was

472
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.519
years This was actually years after I want to say,

473
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:45.880
this might even have been on the second trial that

474
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.920
this investigator actually got involved and spoke to him. And

475
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.640
Claude had no idea. He hadn't talked to Wilson in

476
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.720
a very long time and had no idea that he

477
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.200
was up on murder charges. But both Claude and Sharif said,

478
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.200
there's absolutely no way he could kill somebody. He's like

479
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:06.960
very docile, very amiable. He's very nice, quiet individual that

480
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.680
doesn't get angry about pretty much anything. And that's quite

481
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.799
the opposite of Hawk Jew Kim, who we here, you know,

482
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:16.480
is jumping on the sides of truck and screaming at men.

483
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:22.240
Okay, Wilson thirty one, but he was still in school.

484
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:23.440
Was he a graduate student?

485
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.960
I did. I haven't asked that question. I just know

486
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:30.759
that he was. He might have been finishing up whatever

487
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.319
his studies were at that point in time, or maybe

488
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.200
he went to college late in the day, late in

489
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:36.720
the game. I have no idea.

490
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.559
Yeah, that's pretty young, I mean old for a Stanford student.

491
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.240
Most people that go to Stanford go there right out

492
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.920
of high school and graduate within four or five years.

493
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.559
Well, most people, but that doesn't mean all people. I

494
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:57.000
mean I went back to college at thirty five. Not everybody.

495
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.000
Not everybody plays the socialistic game of school before going

496
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:05.559
and getting their careers. But all right, So Officer Yorge

497
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:08.240
told the prosecutor that Coleman fled the country, that he

498
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.960
cut off his ankle bracelet and fled to Mexico. And

499
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.960
again I'm not sure that maybe another follow up question

500
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.319
that I need to ask if that was just pertaining

501
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.599
to the investigation and they wanted to be able to

502
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.839
track him, or if he was on parole or had

503
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.440
some other type of arrests that required him to wear

504
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:32.279
a bracelet. Wilson's court appointed attorney, Gregory Parisco, retired in

505
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:36.319
two thousand and Mister Wilson claims that he was ineffective because,

506
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.200
number one, he failed to present expert testimony on the

507
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:44.640
forensics in Wilson's behalf by hiring independent pathologists instead relying

508
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.640
on cross examination of the prosecutor's witnesses. So he did

509
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.839
no favors to his client because he didn't have any

510
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:55.079
independent testing done to refute what it was that the

511
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.400
DA came up with. It says that Kim's nude body

512
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.759
should have been and the central point of examination and

513
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:05.440
investigation for a proper defense. Kim, a fifty nine year

514
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:09.079
old divorced for twenty years, never dated. A man found

515
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.480
half naked close an underclose torn seminal fluid on her

516
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.200
upper thighsand sperm in a vagina, was killed and raped,

517
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.400
and Paris gu refused to petition the court to test

518
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:21.720
the untested rape kit, which would have yielded the male DNA.

519
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.400
So there's his second failure. He should have petitioned the

520
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:31.400
court to have that DNA ran. Yes, that's crazy, I know,

521
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.000
I'm trying.

522
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.039
To tell of the prosecution or lame.

523
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:43.319
Think you? And number three, he failed to investigate the

524
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:46.440
state's blood evidence and have an independent testing of the

525
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.200
DNA collected from Wilson in the DNA from the crime scene,

526
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.799
which would have yielded the degradation levels of the DNA

527
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:53.960
to show it was from a single source, that it

528
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.720
was taken from a vile and planted at the scene,

529
00:29:57.079 --> 00:29:59.759
which is something that he later found out through independent

530
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.160
on his own by sending the results both of his

531
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.599
Because of course, the DA ran these profiles and found

532
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.000
that it was a match, but failed to even mention

533
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:13.440
I'm assuming they're forensic experts, failed to even mentioned that

534
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.519
the degradation was identical, and this wasn't something that mister

535
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:20.240
Wilson found out until I want to say, twenty seventeen

536
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.839
or twenty eighteen that it was actually identical, and that's impossible,

537
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:29.359
all right, exclusion of the raate kid. I do want

538
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:33.319
to read some of the trial transcripts from the exclusionary

539
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:36.200
stuff that Linda Condrin or the DA because I find

540
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:40.119
this stuff absolutely astonishing. So it starts out, Miss Condrin, Yes,

541
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.200
your honor, the people's first motion pertains to the exclusion

542
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.759
of evidence relating to a swab and the finding of

543
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.200
a single sperm on the body of the victim. We're

544
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.200
moving to exclude this evidence because it's irrelevant. It's what,

545
00:30:53.759 --> 00:31:00.039
it's what the right through that I said no, And

546
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.440
it gets it gets interesting because I've got the court's

547
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:06.640
response as well. It says it doesn't tend to prove

548
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.720
any matter in issue in this trial, or to even

549
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:12.680
make any matter more or less likely. The reason I

550
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.519
suggest this is for the following the evidence will be

551
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.319
and this is by way of offer of proof that

552
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.640
the sperm could be from the defendant or any other

553
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:29.799
person on the planet. Listen, right, just in case, right, well,

554
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.079
presumably male person on the planet. That it could also

555
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.680
be the result of contamination. What are people just walking

556
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.200
around fleeing sperm and seamen everywhere?

557
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:40.599
Yeah?

558
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:45.960
Come on, I am absolutely floored reading this. There is

559
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:51.720
no evidence of sexual assault in this case, okay, okay,

560
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:55.000
and that the lack of other sperm, the lack of

561
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:58.680
other sperm, that this sperm could have been deposited before

562
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.240
the assault which led to the victim's death, that is

563
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.079
by a day or more. And there's no logical nexus

564
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.799
at all which connects this to the murder in this case,

565
00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:09.880
or that suggests that someone other than the defendant apposited

566
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:12.359
the sperm and was the killer. So why didn't you

567
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.759
test it?

568
00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:16.480
That would admitted.

569
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:20.160
You'd want it admitted? Yeah, I didn't match your suspect.

570
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.440
Say it's going to be to help your case exactly.

571
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:28.799
It says, if relevant at all, the relevance is absolutely

572
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:32.559
minimal and under three fifty two exclusion would be ooh,

573
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.279
what's a three fifty two exclusion? Because I just told

574
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:38.160
you about the article that I found. She did the

575
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.680
exclusionary rule or some Okay, I'm going to come back

576
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:43.279
to that. I'm glad I decided.

577
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:46.480
Exclusion rules in regard to a serge.

578
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.400
Okay, yes, yeah, this is.

579
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.279
The exclusion in its dictionary, meaning not under the legal

580
00:32:54.319 --> 00:33:00.680
exclusionary rule meaning gotcha. Okay, yeah, But so she she's

581
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.119
normally his defense that tries to exclude evidence, but she's

582
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.480
a ross theater trying to exclude evidence which intend to

583
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:18.160
incriminate the incrimination either way. Yeah, but she doesn't want

584
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:20.880
it in because it is potentially exculpatory, and that's why

585
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:21.720
she doesn't want it in.

586
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.000
So what's the how does the judges one?

587
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:26.960
Well, it says and this is what she says, if

588
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.640
relevant at all, The relevance is absolutely minimal, and under

589
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.279
three fifty two, exclusion would be appropriate because it would

590
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.279
lead to true confusion and diverting the attention of the

591
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:40.559
jury and exorbitant consumption of time. It's going to take

592
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:42.359
too much time to tell the truth.

593
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.319
I can't believe she's thrown that. That's a it's a

594
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:48.440
really weak argument.

595
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.079
It's not even an arguments.

596
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:54.599
It would probably be the Califuary Evidence Code.

597
00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:00.799
Gotcha. Well, so the court's response is defense position mister Masco. Well,

598
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:03.079
I don't think it is an exorbitant amount of time,

599
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.359
but I would like to have the opportunity to defer

600
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.440
this till until Wednesday. So that's the only objection that

601
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.280
this public defender makes. I'd like to reserve the thought

602
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.440
on that until Wednesday. This is what the court orders.

603
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:19.800
So I go to page seven and the exclusion of

604
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.599
the evidence of the sperm that will be deferred. Now

605
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.639
the second one is motion for the jury to view it.

606
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:32.320
That's been granted. Wow, I don't even know what to say.

607
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:36.480
I like you, and he actually the judge goes on

608
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.920
at one point to say that this isn't a matter

609
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.599
of time. I have all the time in the world

610
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:43.599
to hear the proper evidence on this case. So if

611
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.840
your argument is time, that's not valid, he says in

612
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.800
one of his in one of the transcripts. But that's

613
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.320
her argument is a it's going to it's going to

614
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.559
divert the attention of the jury, it's going to take

615
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:57.079
too much time, and it's going to be confusing. What

616
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.000
I don't even get it. I I can't put words

617
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:02.639
to this right now. I'm just feeling like this is

618
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.360
probably one of the most corrupt individuals I've ever met

619
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.559
in my entire life, well, not even met the.

620
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:11.719
Judge on it. This is that's the defensive jury.

621
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:16.679
Or both exactly. Somebody should have said, my client has

622
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.039
rights to know. These things should be known. Now this

623
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:22.039
is too because the.

624
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.280
Judge, he doesn't want to get over jured on appeal.

625
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:29.079
Right, But if everybody's got it locked up, if it

626
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:30.760
lock it, stuff it in your pocket.

627
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:33.480
That's why I want to know if there was an

628
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.199
actual appeal, because that's that's an appealable issue right there.

629
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.039
The decision to not let the jury see that evidence,

630
00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:41.880
that's red flag.

631
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.559
I think that the inclusion and maybe in the nineteen

632
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:48.960
ninety eight trial they did talk about a third party

633
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:52.519
culpability is what caused the hung jury. So now she's

634
00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:55.519
just trying to avoid another hung jury by saying, let's

635
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.760
not confuse them. That's not confusing them. That was half

636
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.480
the people believing that he was innocent in the first

637
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.400
trial hungurie. Right. That means that they all couldn't agree, right.

638
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.360
It doesn't. It doesn't have to be half. It could

639
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:13.199
be just one jerk. But unless we actually saw the

640
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:15.639
verdict or you know, the.

641
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.239
Vote, how would I go about looking up.

642
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.199
This series refuse to convict.

643
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:28.400
Would or should these files be made be available public

644
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.360
this trial, these proceedings.

645
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:32.639
Yeah, the transcript should be of the trial.

646
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.079
Yeah, you just have to obviously pay for them and

647
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:36.719
get them to go find them for you. Right. Yeah.

648
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.920
Reporter is one department we do. The department.

649
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.760
I have the court reporter's name at the bottom of

650
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.880
all these transcripts.

651
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:45.159
Yeah.

652
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.639
So the question is that person still alive and still

653
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.679
working as a court reporter if they're archived to so

654
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:54.639
these must.

655
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:59.679
They have to keep it until all until all options

656
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.840
for trial are done. They have to keep all these files,

657
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:08.239
right yeah, Okay, So this now, this is the next

658
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:11.920
exclusion being done by the District Attorney's office. And it's

659
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.639
a cigarette that's found a cigarette butt that's found in

660
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:18.320
the basement near Kim's body. Now, I have just reached

661
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.400
out to mister Wilson to find out if anybody in

662
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.400
the house smoked. I wouldn't be shocked if he came

663
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.920
back and said Coleman did. But obviously for that cigarette

664
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.760
to be mentioned, that means that it wasn't Hawkdow Kim

665
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.039
that was smoking, and they her family probably would have

666
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.280
testified that she didn't. But this is excluded once again

667
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.239
because it may possibly prove third party involvement. So the

668
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.800
court says, next issue, Miss Condron, your honor, there is

669
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.280
evidence that there is a cigarette butt found in the cellar.

670
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:48.719
It has no probative value. I don't know if counsel

671
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.079
intends to introduce it, but it is the people's motion

672
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:56.239
to exclude this evidence. God, I'm I'm I'm yeah, I'm

673
00:37:56.280 --> 00:38:01.880
totally beside myself. Miss Condron says, exclude evidence of a cigarette.

674
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:03.519
But that was found in the cellar of the home.

675
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:06.480
That's the area where the victim's body was found. And

676
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.480
mister Pariscu says, well, I think it's relevant, and again

677
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:12.000
I think it's connected to the sperm thing. I mean,

678
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.960
there's evidence of potential third party involvement, whether there is

679
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.000
evidence of culpability of some other person who maybe have

680
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.480
been responsible, And I think we can take it all

681
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:25.760
up on discussion on Wednesday. Did he not come yes?

682
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.440
Did he not come to court prepared like.

683
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:35.920
Excluded and it's clear the victim.

684
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.039
Correct say that again. No, it's clear that.

685
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:41.880
Wilson didn't smoke, and it's clear that the victim didn't smoke.

686
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:46.719
Correct, it's either or a third party or a third party, yes,

687
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:51.519
So go ahead, Harriet, oh the cigarette.

688
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:55.559
But I think we're all making that point. This would

689
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:00.960
definitely have DNA on it, so you know, and see

690
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:06.599
whose DNA is there is either Kim's or Wilson's or

691
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:14.960
Coleman's or somebody else's part. Yeah, yeah, and that well,

692
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.239
I get rid of that.

693
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:16.960
That's going to.

694
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:20.840
It could prove one way or another.

695
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.719
The missing car that was in the driveway.

696
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.760
Did weren't there any neighbors or anyone that saw who

697
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:29.400
came and went in that vehicle?

698
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.599
And did I don't in that vehicle?

699
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.280
Yes, And and that's something I don't know when we're

700
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.400
gonna hit it, but I'll talk talk about it now

701
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.559
since you brought that up. So basically, when mister Wilson

702
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.760
gets home at approximately two minutes to two and he

703
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.199
finds out that the taxi cab drivers on the wrong

704
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.920
side of town gets that re routed and shows up

705
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:53.199
at two or four pm or whatever it is to

706
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.599
pick mister Wilson up. Mister Wilson indicated when he got home,

707
00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:59.360
he saw a vehicle parked in the driveway with a

708
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.480
car cover over the top of it, and Miss Kim's car,

709
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:06.239
her BMW, was gone, so that would suggest that somebody

710
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.800
came to Miss Kim's house, they got into her vehicle,

711
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:11.280
and they left, but he did not see her when

712
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.039
he entered the back door, which comes into his room directly.

713
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.519
He doesn't have to go through the house. He comes

714
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.280
into his into his room, he gathers his stuff up,

715
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.559
he leaves out the same door he came in, so

716
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.880
he never actually entered the main part of the house

717
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.880
to know whether or not Kim was home, but he

718
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.599
believed she wasn't because her car was not in the driveway.

719
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:33.480
Further testimony of Coleman indicates that when he gets home

720
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:36.360
at eight thirty at night that evening, which would have

721
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.719
been Saturday night at eight thirty pm. Now, mind you,

722
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.800
Wilson's he's being treated in a hospital right now for

723
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:45.840
the damage done to his hand by the taxi cab

724
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:48.599
driver in San Francisco, so he is not even home

725
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.920
when Coleman shows up. Coleman testifies when he got home

726
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:55.320
that the car, Miss Kim's BMW was in the driveway.

727
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.480
So now the only two people while Kim is alive

728
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.400
are purportedly alive because she may have been killed by

729
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.360
somebody else and not Coleman at all. We don't know this, right,

730
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:11.760
She gone yes, yes, And in the trial transcripts of

731
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:15.039
Coleman in the first in the first trial, Coleman indicates

732
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.679
that Miss Kim did not have a car cover, never

733
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.519
covered a car. You could look at the paint and

734
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:21.880
see that it's sun damaged. That she never covered a car.

735
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.519
And in the family and everybody else testified to the

736
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:26.320
fact that Miss Kim did not have a car cover.

737
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:30.599
So we definitely have a third person that is there

738
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:33.719
on that particular day in the presence of Miss Kim,

739
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.960
and her car is back by the time, so she's

740
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:39.800
I would think that we could naturally presume that when

741
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:42.519
Wilson got home and saw that car covered in the driveway,

742
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.440
which other people had seen, including the cab driver. So

743
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.159
the cab driver testified to the fact that when he

744
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:51.800
arrived that the car was covered in the driveway. So

745
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:54.719
now we know that it wasn't her BMW, but the

746
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:58.199
BMW was gone. Wilson is gone until two o'clock in

747
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.760
the morning before he finally makes it home, so it

748
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:04.000
wasn't like he manipulated anything. By covering her car to

749
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.360
make it look suspiciously like somebody else's or something, because

750
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:09.559
he wouldn't have been there in time to remove that

751
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:12.400
when the BMW was seen by Coleman at eight thirty pm.

752
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:18.559
That evening right, absolutely insane. So paris goof. Let's go

753
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:22.480
back to the public defender. He fails to argue significance adequately.

754
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:26.599
So he says, I've read and reviewed the points and

755
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.320
authorities and supported the admissibility of the third party culpability evidence,

756
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:32.760
and I can add to the list of physical items.

757
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:36.840
I presume, excuse me, this leaf is included in the

758
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:39.400
and I think this is coming from Miss Condren at

759
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:41.639
this point. She's wanting to include the leaf that is

760
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:45.199
stuck to Kim's buttocks. Miss Condron says, the leaf is

761
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:48.000
not included in the motion to exclude your honor because

762
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.840
the lead has other significance independent of third party culpability.

763
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:56.599
Independent of third party culpability. The court says, all right, So,

764
00:42:56.679 --> 00:42:59.199
in other words, the people plan to introduce the leaf.

765
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:03.440
Misscondren absolutely, the Court all right, so that issue is

766
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:07.719
not before me. You understand that, mister Pariscue. Mister Pariscue says,

767
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.760
I assumed it was just the cigarette button sperm evidence

768
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:13.719
that was being excluded. The court, I am just reading

769
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.960
your moving papers, and it has quite a few statements

770
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:18.719
on this leaf. And mister Pariscue says, well, because I

771
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.599
think that's part and parcel of why the other items

772
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:23.840
are all important. In other words, when you put the

773
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:26.960
whole package of evidence together. The court says, all right,

774
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.480
I understand, mister Pariscu. I was trying to illustrate to

775
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:33.480
the court the significance. The court all right, I didn't

776
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:37.840
understand that issue. All right, you've read and reviewed the defendants.

777
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:44.360
Let's see the motion, Miss Condron, and the court is

778
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:48.880
actually asking Miss Condron if she's read it. Let's see,

779
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.800
Miss conduring. I have, indeed, and the Court let me

780
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:54.440
say that I do not believe that it's appropriate to

781
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:57.719
exclude it on the basis of time consumption. There's no

782
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.320
need to argue that if it's admissible, how long it

783
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.559
takes is totally irrelevant, and obviously the court will make

784
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.960
whatever time it takes to receive that evidence. That's not

785
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:09.360
the issue. The issue is whether or not it is

786
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:12.039
going to be confusing and therefore lead to issues that

787
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:17.559
the jury shouldn't be properly concerning itself with Now what

788
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:21.360
is your response, Miss Condrone? She says, yes, your honor,

789
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.519
and I have apparently some pages have fallen out of

790
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:25.880
my transcript because it popped open in the box. If

791
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:29.679
you'll just give me a moment. Oh, anyways, she says,

792
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:32.039
your honor, I need to respond briefly to some of

793
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.239
the factual assertions. First of all, the council argues, or

794
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.079
excuse me, council suggests that the evidence is that belief

795
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.159
suggests that she may have been disrobed and dressed during

796
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:44.199
the assault or before her death. In fact, the evidence

797
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:48.119
is uncontradicted that her shirt was removed after physical assault,

798
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.079
causing the blood evidence which we have. So there's really

799
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.840
no basis in any of the evidence for that assertion.

800
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:56.519
Now that doesn't make sense to me because who cares

801
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.800
about her shirt it's found on her butt?

802
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.159
And also why is the leaf so much more important

803
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.079
than the sperm and the cigarette butt?

804
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:09.400
Well, what they what they are trying to say is

805
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:13.400
that and I think it played into the DA's game

806
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:16.719
in regards to the leaf and how it ended up

807
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:20.639
attached to Miss Kim's body before or after as if

808
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:24.199
it slipped down her underwear and her pants while she

809
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:26.880
was struggling with these people, rather than her pants were

810
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:30.440
pulled down, underwear pulled down, a leaf stuck to the bottom,

811
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:32.920
then her pants and underwere pulled back up. So I

812
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:34.960
don't know where that goes to as far as the

813
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.760
transcripts are concerned, because I'm just getting to read. This

814
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:40.719
is like what the preliminary motions, the motions and lemonade

815
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:41.480
that they're discussing.

816
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:46.119
Yeah, can I say something real quick, Yes, when I

817
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:48.920
hear stuff like that about leaves on the butt and

818
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:53.320
et cetera. To me, and I've done so many of

819
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:59.039
these types of cases, it's suggesting that something happened to

820
00:45:59.079 --> 00:45:59.679
her out.

821
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:06.280
Now she was and then no, no, no, no, no

822
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:08.519
no no. The leaf that was attached to her but

823
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.559
matches leaves that are found in the basement, So it's

824
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:13.440
just a lack of a cleanup. It's an old basement

825
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:15.360
with a bunch of junk in it, and it matches

826
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:17.800
the other leaves that are in the basement. So the

827
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.119
act and the crime happened in the basement, and and

828
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:23.840
so did the rape. And that's where that leaf was collected.

829
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.320
When her pants and underwear were pulled down and then

830
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:29.079
pulled back up. It even said that her her pants

831
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.440
and her underwear were torn, her shirt was torn. Well,

832
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.840
her shirt was removed and gone get in the basement,

833
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.639
and well it could be in a window.

834
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:44.920
Indoors and off a tree. They tend to dry up.

835
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:49.679
Rather quickly, right or whatever they crumple up.

836
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:54.480
Yeah, I don't know. I did read some of the

837
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:58.320
evidence in regards to the leaves, and it stated, first off,

838
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.519
it was very interesting to note that the leaf found

839
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.760
on her buttocks was a match to other leaves found

840
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:09.000
in the basement. Then the DA sends out an investigator

841
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:11.480
to go back to the property, but long after it's

842
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:14.719
now owned by somebody else, and he takes two samples

843
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:18.239
of leaves, one of them from a tree on the property,

844
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:20.519
another one from a bush. But as he's taking that

845
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:23.320
sample from the bush, the owner actually says to him,

846
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.519
I planted that myself. That's not something you want to take.

847
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.280
But he took that anyways, and then tried to claim

848
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:33.000
that the leaf found on her butt had no match

849
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:35.519
to any leaves on the property, when a he only

850
00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:38.760
took two types of leaves, when he didn't test all

851
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.320
the rest of the other trees and bushes around, and

852
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:44.000
he took leaves from something he was specifically told by

853
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.199
the new owner that she had planted, and it wouldn't

854
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.320
have been there or existed at the time of the murder.

855
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:53.159
Who does this? I don't understand what their game is

856
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.760
here or what they're trying to play with that do

857
00:47:56.320 --> 00:48:03.760
the fact right well after this judgement, That's what I'm saying.

858
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.960
I'm not sure what their angle is for this. I

859
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.119
got one minute. I'm going to finish off this slide

860
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:14.440
real quick. But it says. It says. First of all,

861
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.159
the council argues, or excuse me, council suggests that the

862
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:19.159
evidence is that the leaf suggests that she may have

863
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.039
been disrobed and dressed during the assault on her or

864
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:25.280
before her death. In fact, the evidence is uncontradicted that

865
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:27.920
her shirt was removed after the physical assault, causing the

866
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.400
blood evidence which we have, so there's really no basis

867
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:33.480
in any of the evidence for that assertion. Second one,

868
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:35.920
which was the most concern to the people, which was

869
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.440
he says that further evidence circumstantial evidence of a third

870
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.199
party presence, if you will, and the court says that's

871
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.679
the key Miss Pondren says, right, the court says, that's

872
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:48.360
where I want you to focus. The court wants you

873
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:50.880
to focus on the third party culpability. But she's doing

874
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:53.559
everything she can to exclude any information that's going to

875
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.239
be helpful in that manner. So claims irrefutable evidence that

876
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:59.679
the shirt was removed after physical assault. But to hide

877
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.559
evidence rather than do to rape. I don't even know

878
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.119
how to take that. Taking her shirt to hide evidence

879
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.480
when there's a dead body seems rather stupid unless the

880
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.400
killer bled on her shirt, right, I mean, why why

881
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.159
take her shirt to conceal evidence when there's a dead

882
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:17.360
body laying there? You didn't take the major part of

883
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:18.800
the evidence, which is the dead body.

884
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.239
So again, rush to judgment. They're trying to hurry up.

885
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:26.039
And that's what it is.

886
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:29.880
She's doing everything she can to play a dirty game.

887
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:30.960
Here is all I see.

888
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:32.880
So why.

889
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:37.400
A third party is a number one defense to most

890
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:40.320
people who are arrested for a crime. If they didn't

891
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:43.679
do it, obviously, that means there's a third person and

892
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:46.159
that's your only defense. I didn't do it. Look at

893
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:48.519
the forensics. It's going to lead you to somebody else,

894
00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:49.039
not to me.

895
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:53.320
It's just adding up to there is the third party.

896
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:57.800
But we are understand how you can exclude the sperm

897
00:49:57.880 --> 00:49:58.639
and the cigarette.

898
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:01.159
But I don't underst I don't understand any of it.

899
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:03.320
But this is it. You guys were at our fifty

900
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:05.159
minute mark here. I want to thank you guys. Will

901
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:07.360
pick this up next week and continue on with this

902
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.199
follow up because there's lots more to come. It gets

903
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:13.239
even better. Everybody, have a wonderful weekend and thank you

904
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:14.159
guys for being here.

905
00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:30.599
Okay, goodbye,