April 11, 2025

Divorce, Probation, and More Murders

Divorce, Probation, and More Murders

Jack has just been arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon against his own family. After receiving a sentence and probation, Jack begins selling his guns and begins divorce proceedings against Nora. Jack is free once again to do as he...

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Jack has just been arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon against his own family. After receiving a sentence and probation, Jack begins selling his guns and begins divorce proceedings against Nora. Jack is free once again to do as he pleases. With a propensity to return to his Mom in Texas, Jack should be considered for the uptick in murders here.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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We are waiting for Harriet Soouchet to join us today,

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So for now I'm going to go ahead and get

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started on the continuing information, and we're going to go

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ahead and flip on over to the presentation. At this point,

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and we'd left off talking about Jack actively having attempted

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to hurt in Jermaine, who knows what it was was

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in his mind at the time, throwing hot water on

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people coming in with a gun. Needless to say, he

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had been arrested for assault with a deadly weapon, and

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we noticed that he had bonded out underneath the last

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name Torrance with an O instead of Terrence with an A.

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As we continue through the presentation, we start to see

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that it did actually revert to his real name, at

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least to the degree that he was given counsel for

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representation in this criminal act, and he had a piece

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of paper in his belongings that indicated notice of responsibility

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for payment of appointed counsel and right to hearing. So

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that was an interesting thing I hadn't seen before because

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I automatically assumed if they gave you representation or your

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entitled direct representation, that was not something that you necessarily

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paid for. But it appears as though back in nineteen

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eighty three that was something that was happening. So on

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September first of nineteen eighty three, Jack was ordered to

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peer before the court and he has provided counsel at

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that time. During this he purportedly received sixty days and

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three years probation, but based on the paperworking activities that

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I have, it appears that it was more like thirty

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days and one year probation. And we're going to continue

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on through that information that tells us about that. So

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right after obviously this arrest and being given counsel and

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appearing in court, we see that Jack is quickly attempting

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to sell guns. I did attempt to locate this John K. Flannery,

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who actually purchased a thirty eight caliber Smith and Wesson

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model number fifteen before has a serial number on it.

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I'm not sure exactly how I could track something like

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that without having access to law enforcement, but I did

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want to reach out to this John Flannery. I did

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locate him in the real Inda area, which was consistent

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with the paperwork and Jack's paperwork which we're going to

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be talking about, but I wasn't able to actually make

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contact with anybody. I was hoping maybe I could get

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a hold of a child or somebody who had inherited

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this gun after the fact. See, mister Flannery picked up

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his thirty thirty. So there's actually two guns that are

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be enlisted here, the thirty eight caliber and then the

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thirty thirty. Let's see here. So on September ninth, Jack

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is selling the thirty eight caliber to John Flannery of

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four twenty Lilac Lane, Reel, Indo, California. I did have

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a phone number of nine one six nine nine one

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two four zero eight, but all of that led me

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kind of to a dead end. It does mean that

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he has taken some time to clear up his affairs,

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as I had indicated, because he clearly is not in

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jail attempting to sell guns. Though I hear these days

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just about everything as possible. I have recently been talking

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to somebody who was released from prison for trafficking, and

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I found it quite comical that he had indicated that

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they could still get drugs inside of the prison. And

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this is something you hear about. You don't really know

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about nothing you can put your thumb on. But we

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continued the conversation because he had indicated that he had

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quit doing the drugs and of course had straightened up,

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but that it was still very real to be able

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to obtain those in prison. And one of the statements

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that he had made was that what would normally have

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costed him twenty dollars on the street costs four hundred

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in prison. And I was about floored. Hi, good morning, Nolan,

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Welcome to the show.

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A couple if he got three days, it would have

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been county jail. It wou would not have been prison.

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And then no, no, no, no, no, we're not I'm on prison

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with someone else.

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Someone else, Okay, yeah, yeah, the prior slide. If he

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got court appointed counsel, either a public defender or a

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panel attorney. He would have had to qualify for that,

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which means he had to tell the court that he

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didn't have any money. Oh yeah, So he's holding out

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to the public or to the court anyway that he's

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semi indigent at.

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That point, right, well, and that would make me then

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question whether whether or not he had actively gone to

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work for Hewlett Packard at this point as well, then, right,

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I mean.

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I thought he was with Hewlett Packard in rose Bels.

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It says nineteen eighty three, but we don't have a

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specific date or time for that, so it's kind of

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just thrown in here, maybe not even chronologically ordered. I

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just know that that in nineteen eighty three at some

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point he had attained that job with Hewlett Packard. So basically,

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in order to get this type of help, you're saying

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that he is partially indigen.

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Yes, or he is asserting that to the court whether

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it's true or not. But he's a private lawyer.

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No, he's not. And that kind of goes along with

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what we know about Jack not really having jobs for

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most of his life, and we see him selling a

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bunch of things. So I don't know if he's selling

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them to quickly off them or if he is selling

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them to make ends meet for this particular act.

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I think one of his gripes in some of the

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communications he sent out over the years is that he

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doesn't feel like he's been adequately compensated for the stuff

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he's done.

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Yes, that is something that Harriet had literally throughout the

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Zodiac period, and some time after the Zodiac had stated

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that the ciphering of the messages had come out to

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is that he was not getting paid and that he

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was upset that he was in fact doing his job. Well,

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that makes a little more sense out of that then,

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So definitely we're still looking for possibly him not actively

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going to work for Hewlett Packard until after this point

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to begin with. So aside from that, like I said,

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I had assumed that there was a possibility that he

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had not gone straight away to jail to do his time,

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that the courts had allowed him some time to handle

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his affairs. And we see this particular sale of guns

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that's occurring on September eighth of nineteen eighty three, which

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is merely eight days after his court appearance that we

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saw there where he was granted an attorney, and that

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would lead me to believe. That's why this paperwork leads

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me to believe that he didn't didn't go in and

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actually serve that time immediately. Now, if somebody's given something

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like sixty days, don't they get good time or good

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behavior time or something like that.

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Generally they do half of it. So that would be

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explain the thirty days.

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And that's about the time that I think that I

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can pinpoint or nail down that he was actively in jail,

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because I see so much other activity that's occurring that

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I'm not sure if he could handle that in court,

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like selling gun or in jail, like selling guns. How

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are you selling guns if you're in jail.

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Yeah, And it obviously wasn't a felling. It had to

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be a misdemeanor. What's that because once you have a felling,

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you got to give up your guns.

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I think it did say that they had let me

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go back, that they had reduced it to a misdemeanor.

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So Jack is released on bond for assault and battery

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with a deadly weapon in North Highland. Said to being

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given thirty days but knowing the system got away with

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good behavior. Yeah, I do think that it was reduced

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to a misdemeanor, and we talked about that, I think,

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or at least I feel like we did last week,

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and how somebody has an assault with a deadly weapon

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that gets reduced to a misdemeanor. That's a very serious crime.

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Is I just I don't understand the system sometimes. I'm

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going to go back to those pictures that we just

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flashed across. They're pretty graphic. But I was waiting for

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Harriet to join us. She's supposed to be coming in

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at some point in the early part of the show,

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So yes, I wanted to research, like, oh, so, what

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I was talking about when you came in with prison

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was an individual that I have talked to that had

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indicated that they had recently been released from prison for

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trafficking drug trafficking, And of course, you know, my inquiry,

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mine wants to know, can you still get drugs in jail? Yeah,

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evidently it's a thing. But the price was astronomical. So

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he said, what you could get on the street for

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twenty bucks would cost you four hundred inside prison, which,

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oh my god, Like I can't even imagine the amount

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of money the people who are making either smuggling an

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in or and who has that kind of money on

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the books or otherwise you're clearly not working. So I mean,

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what type of clientele could you possibly have that could

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cough up four hundred dollars for the same thing you

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could get twenty dollars on the street Either way. It

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kind of solidified what most of us think or weren't

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able to put our finger on improve, is that you

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can still get drugs while you're in jail, in prison,

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maybe not jail so much, but I don't know.

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Yeah, and visitors smuggle it in sometimes even our journeys

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have been found guilty of smuggling drugs in Oh my dear,

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why would you risk your license do something like that?

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Exactly? Like, that's no fear. What do you think you're

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above the law? I don't know. I mean, obviously laws

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are for reason, and most of that is to cause

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fear in us so that we don't commit them. So

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I did try to research where these guns went to.

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I wasn't able to act land on this individual or

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any of his family members, but I do see that

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he is selling more than one gun. So he's selling

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a thirty eight caliber and a thirty thirty to this

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mister Flannery, and it's saying that mister Flannery picked up

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his thirty thirty, and it's signed, and it's on Jack's paperwork,

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So it looks to me to be that Jack again

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is not in jail at this point. I also wondered

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if Jack thought that they might search his home based

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on this.

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Okay, yeah, sorry, not a problem.

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And that is another reason to exclude him from the Florence,

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Italy murders, which we did have another set of murders

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on September ninth of nineteen eighty three, because if Jack

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is back here in the Rio Linda area selling guns,

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he's likely not off in Florence, Italy, which makes these

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couples crimes that are happening over there something to consider

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as far as a worldwide group organization, either just to

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obtain media sales as far as newspapers and news are concerned,

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or just part of the group, you know, creating another antistic,

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antagonistic type situation where other things may be going on

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that they don't want the public to pay attention to.

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So on September ninth of nineteen eighty three, Wilhelm Friedrich

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Horsemeyer and Jens U Rush of Florence, Italy. I already

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marked up there, not Jack Meyron Rush. On September ninth,

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nineteen eighty three, two students from Osnabrook, West Germany. We're

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visiting Italy to celebrate an important scholarship Meyer. In just

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one they they were found shot to death in their

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Volkswagen Samba bus in Galuzo. Rush's long blonde hair and

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small build could have deceived the killer into thinking he

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was a female, and the police suspected that the students

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were gay lovers based on pornographic materials found at the scene. Yeah,

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very interesting. But back in Texas, on September seventeenth of

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nineteen eighty three, twenty one year old Kenneth Dwayne Shorty

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Stott in Porter, Texas went missing. So it says that

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on October third, nineteen eighty three, and ms MCSO deputy

224
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.320
was contacted by the mother of Kenneth Dwayne Scott Stott Sorry,

225
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who reported that Stott had been missing since September seventeenth.

226
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That's quite a long time to allow somebody to go missing.

227
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He gave them two weeks to do something with this guy.

228
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Stott was known to have last been seen at the

229
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Porter Lounge bar in Porter, Texas, leading with two unknown

230
00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:42.120
males in a yellow Ford Maverick. Stott reportedly had approximately

231
00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.200
two hundred and forty dollars in cash with him and

232
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was said to be en route to Humble, Texas to

233
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pay down on a truck. Stott's own car was found

234
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.120
abandoned at the Porter Lounge days later. It had been

235
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.720
rumored since nineteen eighty three that Stott was murdered and

236
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.840
buried in the East Montgomery County area. Stott has identified

237
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.720
as follows. White male, date of birth one twenty five,

238
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:06.559
nineteen sixty two, twenty one years of age. When reported missing,

239
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.240
he was five eight, one hundred and forty five pounds,

240
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.679
blonde hair, blue eyes. Last scene September seventeenth, nineteen eighty

241
00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.759
three in Porter, Texas. Act me on the face and back.

242
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.240
Last scene wearing white and black tennis shoes and a

243
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.399
plaid shirt. Last known address was Route two, Box three

244
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.480
one one two, Porter, Texas. And the connection obviously that

245
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.840
I found in that was Humble, because we do see

246
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.799
the two thousand and five finale letter that mentions Humble, Texas.

247
00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:37.840
So that always, you know, raises my little feelers and

248
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:40.559
makes me think that there could be some connection with

249
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:46.159
that going on simple robbery. Maybe the fact that they

250
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.600
found his car still left back at the lounge where

251
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:51.679
it was kind of kind of gives you the idea

252
00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.559
of the concept that he didn't didn't leave that bar

253
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:58.360
alone on his own or at his own will. I mean,

254
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:00.720
unless these two gentlemen had almost to give him a

255
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:04.039
ride to pick that truck up, because obviously, going from Porter,

256
00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.360
Texas to Humble, if he had driven his own car,

257
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.240
he would have two vehicles that he would have to

258
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.919
figure out a way to come back with. But you're

259
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.679
not going to, necessarily, I would think, ask strangers to

260
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.600
give you this ride. So there's definitely something hanky that's

261
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:18.320
going on there.

262
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:20.840
How did they know he had two hundred and forty

263
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.200
and cash he thrown his body?

264
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.519
It must have been his I'm going to guess maybe

265
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.200
his mother knew that that was his intentions or plans.

266
00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.000
Maybe he had discussed what his plans were to Okay

267
00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:34.519
to do with as mom.

268
00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.279
Yes, I guess what I'm getting at is it was

269
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.039
it a robbery or was it just a murder?

270
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:43.000
You know, they didn't say, I mean it said he

271
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.679
reportedly had this cash on him and was said to

272
00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.120
be en route to Humble, Texas to pay down on

273
00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.000
a truck. But they don't indicate whether or not that

274
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.559
cash was missing, or that they believed that this was

275
00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.080
a robbery. There was, there just was not a lot

276
00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:05.639
of information on it. They're also old hearing. Ah, good morning.

277
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.320
I read you a few seconds ago, but I wanted

278
00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:11.759
you to finish that part of the presentation.

279
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:13.279
So nice.

280
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.120
Anyways, good morning, Land, good morning.

281
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:19.480
We are going to hop back to I think one

282
00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.440
of the crazier times in Dennis and I's life when

283
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.080
we were investigating these cases and putting the information together,

284
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.720
and that was him coming across a set of pictures.

285
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.080
And the thing that triggered me is that in nineteen

286
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:38.600
eighty three, Dennis had indicated that his two sisters had

287
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:41.440
come back from Michigan from their fathers. One of his

288
00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.360
sisters was eight months pregnant, and that kind of flashed

289
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.919
back in my mind these pictures that Dennis had brought

290
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:49.840
to me at one point in time, stating that he

291
00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.879
had found them in Jack's belongings. The pictures are extremely graphic.

292
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:55.960
I'm not going to show you the most graphic ones,

293
00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.240
and I have blocked out the face, which I kind

294
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.120
of wished I didn't because I'd like to discuss those aspects.

295
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:06.599
But I'm just going to, you know, for the purpose

296
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.759
of keeping this low key on these particular pictures, discuss

297
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.759
what we can discuss about it without actively looking at

298
00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.160
the face. So these are color photographs. There does not

299
00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.079
appear to be any police presence. I don't see any markings. Now.

300
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.480
I know that when they come in, at least as

301
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:29.200
far as my forensic photography photography classes were concerned, you

302
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:33.000
would come in from a distance and begin shooting your

303
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.119
forensic photographs of the area, and of course you're going

304
00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.119
to as you walk up on it, take pictures, and

305
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:43.480
then at some point in time, they're going to lay

306
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:47.119
out markers. They're going to lay out measurements or things

307
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.480
that they can use for measurements to get an idea

308
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.759
of scale. What we see here as a person laying

309
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.519
dead next to a railroad track. And when these pictures

310
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.920
were given to me by Dennis, he had indicated that

311
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:05.440
they were that this was evidently one of his sisters

312
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.240
children's father, and that he had knocked her up when

313
00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:13.319
she was thirteen or fourteen years old, and that this

314
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.920
was kind of the retribution for what he had gotten

315
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.799
for being for having done this to one of Jack's stepdaughters.

316
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:24.119
Do you recall which one that was? Harriet?

317
00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:26.920
Oh?

318
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:28.519
Was it Mary?

319
00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:33.480
Get too much in trouble. I'm trying to remember which

320
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:38.400
one had the youngest children, and I.

321
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:39.039
Think it was.

322
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:42.119
It could be wrong, it could be Geneva. Wasn't she

323
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:44.559
born a little bit younger than Mary?

324
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.240
She is a little bit younger than Mary.

325
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.440
Yeah, so probably to my apologies to Geneva and Mary.

326
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.559
But I'm just trying to remember what Dennis had told me.

327
00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.880
So if I look at if I look at the

328
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.400
math on this nineteen eighty three is when he's saying

329
00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.759
that they had returned in that his younger, his younger

330
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.279
sister was eight months pregnant. He does not indicate which

331
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:14.720
younger sister. It could be Geneva. Either way, we're talking.

332
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:18.559
Dennis was four and seventy one, and they clearly were

333
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.680
at least a year or so younger than him. They

334
00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:24.559
were babies in his mother's arms when I saw the pictures.

335
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.480
So if we put them about two years underneath Dennis,

336
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.839
then we're looking at twelve fourteen yeah, around thirteen fourteen,

337
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.359
then that would have either been Mary or Geneva. But

338
00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:43.000
these pictures. Then eventually, at some point in time, Dennis

339
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:46.440
came back and said that Rick, Mary's husband had put

340
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.720
these pictures into Jack's stuff to screw with him, and

341
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.720
that this gentleman had actively jumped off of a bridge,

342
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:58.559
subsequently committing self homicide. And so that's why I found

343
00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.160
the picture so extremely interesting because if that was the case,

344
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.119
who was there to see it, who was there to

345
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.599
take the pictures? Why don't we see the police presence

346
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.960
that I would expect to see in these photographs, such

347
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.880
as either some type of marketings, some type of you know,

348
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:18.200
little tent cards indicating, you know, different elements of the

349
00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.559
particular scene. I don't see anything. And then when I

350
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.039
got further and deeper into the pictures, I was a

351
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.519
little more disconcerned with the fact that the information we

352
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.640
were being given wasn't true. Number One, Rick was one

353
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.359
of the first people with Dennis when he watched the

354
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:39.440
America's Most Wanted two thousand episode on the Zodiac, in

355
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.440
which case both of them had come to the conclusion

356
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.480
that they believed that Jack was a likely suspect for this,

357
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.400
and Rick has you know, been seen participating in his

358
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.799
documentaries talking about how he also believed that Jack was

359
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.119
the zodiac. So what prompted him? And I want to

360
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.000
say it was about I met Dennis in two thousand

361
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.519
and nine. We're between two thousand and nine and twenty twelve,

362
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:07.480
is when these pictures popped up? What would provoked Vidual,

363
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.279
who was so on Dennis's side about Jack being the zodiac,

364
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:16.680
to attempt to mess with Dennis as they claimed that

365
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:20.279
it was in the end. So first, the story is

366
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.319
is that he got his retribution for having knocked up

367
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.440
one of Jack's stepdaughters to oh, he jumped off of

368
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:31.519
a bridge. And that's pretty much where these pictures come from,

369
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:35.720
which brought more questions than answers, since who ends up

370
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.359
with these type of pictures? How did they?

371
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:40.920
Is there more than one victim?

372
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:44.480
No, there's just one victim that we're going to discuss here.

373
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.440
Is not really Jack somo to take pictures of his victims?

374
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.480
Well, that's not necessarily true. We have pictures of what

375
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.200
we believe were black Dahlia. We have other pictures that

376
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.440
were found in his belongings to some nefarious stuff. So

377
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:02.640
and Jack was into fortalgh graphy, I mean jacket.

378
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.720
In the Son of Sam murders. There's allegations that they

379
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.559
were filming in some of the murders.

380
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.839
Right there Actually was a gentleman I guess in the

381
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:14.519
back of a baby, right, but he ended up self homicided.

382
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.039
He ended up self homicided as well too, though didn't he.

383
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:23.079
I don't remember. Oh yeah, one of them, one of

384
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:27.640
the photographers got killed. Yeah, they took all their original

385
00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:34.920
is A films and then killed them.

386
00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:39.759
And who does that? I mean, obviously in New York

387
00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.920
and Yonkers some type of an organized group obviously that

388
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.000
didn't want to be outed for what was going on,

389
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.599
and it sounded to me like they were making snuff films.

390
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.119
So bringing us to this particular individual, now, whether or

391
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.519
not it was retribution for having gotten a thirteen fourteen

392
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.240
year old pregnant or it was a self homicide, I

393
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:05.039
don't buy the self homicide for the very things we're

394
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.039
going to talk about right now. And have you ever

395
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:13.319
seen any of these types of pictures Nolan, like in

396
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.440
your career with criminals that he dealt with any Okay,

397
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:20.079
So one of the things that I point out here

398
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.079
is that We have blood on the shoes. We have

399
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.160
blood on let me see if I can get my

400
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:28.279
cursor of a come back. We have blood on the shoes.

401
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:35.000
We have blood on the thighs. Going backwards, let's go forward.

402
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:42.559
We have a heavily soaked blood thigh area on both legs. So,

403
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.839
and here's the only one I chose to show out

404
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:50.880
of the entire body. And the reason for that is

405
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.759
because I wanted to show that this blood pattern that

406
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:58.200
is far reaching off to the right over here, I

407
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:01.720
did not feel was consistent with somebody having leapt to

408
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:06.680
their death. We see that the entire skull cap area

409
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.680
basically all the way to the back neck is literally bloodied,

410
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:15.839
completely saturated. The hair is completely saturated in blood. Most

411
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.119
of the damage is actually found on the front end

412
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.920
of his face, which includes a gash across the forehead.

413
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:24.160
His teeth have been completely busted out of his face.

414
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:28.720
We see blood and almost bruising along all of his arms,

415
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.839
in his chest and other pictures, and again we see

416
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.799
these heavily soaked thigh areas that would almost lead me

417
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.480
to believe that he was being beaten, maybe crouched down

418
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:44.200
on his knees, because it's pretty much void on the

419
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.440
shin area of the pants, but heavily soaked over the

420
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:50.400
top of his own thighs, as if he was basically

421
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.759
being beaten while on the ground, leaning over the top

422
00:24:54.799 --> 00:25:00.359
of himself. What have you more confusing? Is this blood

423
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:02.799
pattern all the way to the right over here? I mean,

424
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:04.920
if you leap to your death, it's not like you're

425
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.440
a rubber ball that's going to bounce around, right, I mean,

426
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.519
you're gonna flood hit the ground, be done. And that

427
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.440
the blood pattern seems to be far heavier furthest to

428
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.599
the right than even the area that is most closely

429
00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:24.519
located to the body. And so that brought more, like

430
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.119
I said, more questions than answers as to whether or

431
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.160
not this person actively leapt to their death. Why did

432
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.480
this family have these pictures in their belongings to begin with?

433
00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:35.960
I don't know if anybody who would want these or

434
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.559
keep these. I don't know that the police department would

435
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.559
release these to the family members, do you, Nolan?

436
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.799
No, I don't know it would. Law enforcement would not

437
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.000
release these, maybe to DA or to a defense attorney

438
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.440
on a discovery request. But there's no reason why Jack

439
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.759
should be in possession of these and if this Ritt

440
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.400
guy or whoever was the allegedly planned them Jack stuff,

441
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.039
how did he get it so right?

442
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:06.720
Right?

443
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.200
I mean again, if Mary was not the mother of

444
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.119
the children of this guy, then why would Mary and

445
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.640
Rick have access to them?

446
00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:24.599
Again, it just why would there be a DA involved

447
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.240
if it was a self homicide, So there wouldn't a

448
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:30.160
DA or even a defense attorney. Right, none of this

449
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.160
would even come into play if it was found to

450
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:36.720
be a suicide, so it would there are some telltale

451
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.200
tattoos and marks. But again, identifying the actual year that

452
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.200
this happened is eluding me as well. I see that

453
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:46.279
the picture quality is much better than the picture qualities

454
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:48.319
of what we see going on in nineteen eighty three

455
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.000
with Jack's photographs, So it tells me that it is

456
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.279
a newer generation picture rather than probably in nineteen eighty three.

457
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.160
I just happened to bring it up at this point

458
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:01.279
in time because he was talking about that ignant younger sisters.

459
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:04.160
So now, unless Mary and Geneva we're both pregnant around

460
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.640
thirteen fourteen, it's just going to be one of them.

461
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:10.160
I would have thought the pictures, if that were true,

462
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.759
would been in the hands of the individual who who

463
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.240
was the baby's daddy. I guess, if you will, one

464
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:18.079
of them did actually reach out to me at one

465
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:20.799
point in time and tell me to take the pictures

466
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.160
down because they didn't want their children to skip across

467
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.319
it on the internet, which is why I've covered it.

468
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.319
I'm not showing the face, I'm not going through that

469
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:31.000
kind of stuff, but I think that this particular act

470
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:35.039
here should be investigated for the truth at a minimum.

471
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.920
Yeah, we don't even know who partner is.

472
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:40.680
Now.

473
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.680
I want to say that Mary and Rick were in

474
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:47.559
Colorado at the time that Dennis got these pictures from them.

475
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.920
I'm not sure they may have been back in Washington,

476
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:54.200
but no, there was there really was no indication. And

477
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:56.599
as far as I can tell, if this is a

478
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.680
newer generation picture, let's say, you know, late nineties or

479
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:05.039
something like that, that's a death well after the act, right,

480
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.119
I mean, the pregnancy we're talking is nineteen eighty three.

481
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:14.720
So did you ever get any more information from Dennis Harriet?

482
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:19.200
I know he rarely talked about those pictures, But you know,

483
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.559
what you're doing is a part of the process of

484
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.680
how we have to know Dennis, How we got to

485
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:27.759
know each other, so that this is an important flow

486
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:29.759
in the process. You can't leave it out.

487
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:35.680
No, No, it's another one of those things that are unexplainable.

488
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:39.279
And nobody should be in possession I feel of these pictures,

489
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:42.519
nor should they want to be in possession, Nor should

490
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:47.960
Rick be attempting to somehow bolster or mess with Dennis,

491
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.599
you know, once stating one reason why this person had

492
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.559
died and then giving a subsequent later reasoning as to

493
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:59.480
why this person died, and that later reasoning doesn't really

494
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:03.759
even quite fit with what we're seeing. There's no explanation

495
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.759
for this heavy blood pattern on the thighs, and we

496
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.240
can almost even see the void right here in the

497
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.559
crotch area, which would almost again indicate that he was

498
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:15.960
either on his knees or he was hunched over his

499
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.920
own lap, you know, being beaten where that blood is

500
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.480
now just draining and pouring. I just don't see any

501
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.799
other way that this blood on his thighs could have

502
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.880
gotten there. One person, I think it was one actually,

503
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:29.960
when I was discussing it with him, it indicated that,

504
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.319
you know, what if he had a compound fracture where

505
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.519
the bone protruded from the thigh, well, on both thighs.

506
00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:39.359
And even then, how does that blood even that that's

507
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.079
not spray? I mean, that is such a heavy pattern

508
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:47.160
of blood to the right hand side that is not spray.

509
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:51.680
Anybody have a car? Yeah, yeah, very very strange.

510
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.279
All right, Well, I think I think that Jack was

511
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.720
taking pictures of the crime scene. Albeit he's most likely

512
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.480
the one who did it. He's there, but who else

513
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.039
is there?

514
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:05.599
Right?

515
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.200
But it looks like it's a crime scene photo.

516
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.119
But if it was a crime scene photo, I would

517
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:14.519
have expected to have seen better pictures.

518
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:20.240
No, no, no, I'm saying that he got pictures of

519
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:24.559
this particular crime, so it's got crime scene.

520
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:29.200
Yeah, yeah, because I don't see any instances whatsoever of

521
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:32.599
police involvement with these pictures. And again I don't see

522
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:35.440
the police handing these pictures over to somebody. I don't

523
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:39.440
see if it was ruled a self homicide, I don't

524
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:42.519
see it going to court, and in any defense attorney

525
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.599
being involved, who would end up with these pictures. There's

526
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:50.400
more questions than answers. Like I said, this particular map

527
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:54.160
we talked about a little bit back many months ago

528
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.839
with Sandy Betts. This is the nineteen eighties, this is

529
00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.119
when she starts getting wanted by somebody who would like

530
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:05.480
her to believe that they are the Zodiac. She states

531
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.079
that she received a paper black Hood in the rear

532
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.960
of her vehicle. This particular map. She couldn't recall if

533
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.279
it was left in her yard or in her mailbox,

534
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:16.960
or how she had gotten this map, but it literally

535
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:22.240
mapped out many victims that were claimed to have been

536
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.000
killed by the Zodiac. And as I went through here,

537
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.200
I actually even found some consistency with her handwriting on it.

538
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:34.240
So I see things that are in this particular writing

539
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.039
that are not consistent with the Zodiac's writing. And then

540
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:42.759
we see all of these different locations for victims, which

541
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:46.480
I'm not sure that somebody would go out of their

542
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.839
way to actually make a map of all their victims,

543
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.039
especially if it could relate back to their handwriting, because

544
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.079
then you're literally taking culpability for every single one of

545
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:58.880
these murders, whether you committed them or not.

546
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.400
So who is bets to begin with just a regular

547
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.079
citizen or why? Okay, go ahead.

548
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:16.440
She was friends with Darlene what was her name? She

549
00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:19.480
was an acquaintance, let's say, with Darlene Farrin. If I

550
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.240
remember correctly, her and Darlene were dating the same cop Okay,

551
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.400
what's that, Nolan.

552
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:31.359
Arlene was dating a lot of people.

553
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:39.920
Yes, yes, she worked at the Coronado Inn, and I

554
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:44.200
guess this individual or some some male would come in

555
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:48.000
and taunt her and leave messages and notes, and you know,

556
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.680
maybe she's talking about the Zodiac at this point and

557
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.920
people are overhearing it, so they're just climbing on the

558
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.799
bandwagon to mess with her. I'm not really quite sure.

559
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.119
I have looked at the handwriting of one of the

560
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.920
people she thought could possibly have and the contributor to

561
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:07.400
the notes at her workplace, and I didn't find that

562
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:12.079
at that handwriting was consistent with the zodiac case. But again,

563
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:15.200
here we have all of these different victims mapped out.

564
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.880
I was able to substantiate and find most of these

565
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:24.359
particular unsolved murders for these locations. But as we've discussed

566
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:26.960
through some of the salves that Harriet's had, some of

567
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.640
these murders were not committed by the Zodiac. He was

568
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.920
just basically taddling on them, right.

569
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.079
Yeah, and part of there was a whole crew by

570
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.880
the seventies and eighties, maybe even at the sixties. So

571
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.240
when I learned that, I think we did a show

572
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.880
about this a year or so ago. I said, I'm

573
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.039
not discounting her claims that she was being punted by

574
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.960
Jack or somebody like Jack, because she knew Darley and

575
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.200
Farron at that time Perry Well, Darley and Farren was

576
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:04.200
as evil as uh satan so and Jack was definitely

577
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.119
going to be haunting somebody like her horse crew because

578
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.039
she and their heads killed Bobby Kennedy in the ICU.

579
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.559
I see so many solves saying the same thing. Darlene

580
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:19.039
Farrin is the one who shot Bobby Kennedy, their boss

581
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:25.440
in the ICU. So off the Sandy Bets.

582
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:33.519
Was a needle, or it would be oh.

583
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:36.079
That doesn't make sense, got into his hospital room in

584
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.960
the hospital.

585
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:43.519
Room, yeah, using repetitive decoded distance, or saying the same

586
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:48.760
thing for years, that that she got the time card

587
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:54.400
and the suit from Donna Last to go in and

588
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.079
shoot Bobby Kennedy in the head in the ICU. It

589
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.880
only took maybe third seconds to a minute to do this.

590
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.320
And I thought, you said she shot him up with

591
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:05.960
number tall.

592
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:15.639
Oh that's uh, that's Marilyn Monroe up the rectum. That's

593
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:20.119
that's not the last involvement was Yeah, so Darlene Farron

594
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:23.800
and their then their mind is the one who's responsible

595
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.599
for killing Bobby Kennedy. And so there was a long

596
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:28.239
time period.

597
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.920
Yeah, that's the Ambassador hotel on his way to the

598
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.480
you know, he'd already been shot in the head.

599
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.920
Mm hmmm. Yeah. But the but the ad copsy revealed

600
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:47.440
something suspicious. That's why mel bell I got involved because

601
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:52.280
the bullet holes that they found there in the head

602
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:58.000
didn't match the wound from the match the bullets that

603
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.119
Sirhan used, so that.

604
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:04.559
He had blanks.

605
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.960
Yeah. So so I'm like looking at this and they said,

606
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:14.679
that's that's where Jack is. He's going through all the

607
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:20.960
control hill and that uh. Anybody who knew Darlene Farren

608
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.880
had to go or was taunted, well.

609
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:27.559
And there wasn't. There was information from Sandy Bets that

610
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:31.519
Darlene was involved with some gentlemen out of Chicago. I

611
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:37.840
believe that had plates for making fraudulent money. They have

612
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:42.199
counterfeit money, and of course drugs were involved and all

613
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:45.760
the other great things that come along with that. Just

614
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.000
really no indication of who the two individuals were. I

615
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.880
guess that were from Chicago or how many of them

616
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:56.599
were from Chicago. Albeit we do know that Jack had

617
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:59.880
his his part in the Chicago area, so he could

618
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.440
very well have been one of those people from Chicago,

619
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.639
or he is simply the person following around and cleaning

620
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:09.920
up the messes that these individuals are making. Who knows.

621
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:15.840
So this map again, it does actually as far.

622
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.559
As I was just saying, very very macabre. Okay, anyways,

623
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.360
keep going and.

624
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:25.239
It shows Santa Rosa. Now, do you believe that it

625
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:29.000
is the group that's involved with the Santa Rosa killings?

626
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:35.159
Harriet? Definitely Jack. I'm seeing numerous ones during the seventies,

627
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:40.400
especially attributed to the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders, that it

628
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.800
is involving other people that had to do with cocaine.

629
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.119
And so he's not the killer, but he's got the

630
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:54.239
information and it's very very well detailed that John Edward

631
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:57.559
Walsh Junior and his life for Vey are involved in

632
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:02.039
a mess and these kids, you know, so it's just

633
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.159
very despite the seventies, there's this huge crew. I don't

634
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:07.880
even know the names of all of them, but I

635
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:08.599
can name them.

636
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.519
So do we know who first connected Santa Rosa? Was

637
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:14.039
that Robert Graysmith.

638
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.960
Yeah, Robert Graysmiths from what I understand saw all the

639
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.559
hints is very zodiac esque how the victims died. But

640
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:31.039
it looks like Jack and his crew are involved because

641
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:36.239
they're getting information trying to stop the flow of cocaine

642
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:40.199
and which was coming according to the psalts I got,

643
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:42.360
which a lot of people will agree I had to

644
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.159
do with Halfa and g and Kana, and in the

645
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.360
end they were after Hafe, Angie and Kanna, and then

646
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.360
that stopped and then we could go onto Pablo Escobar

647
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:54.760
during the seventies in the eighties.

648
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:01.079
So it's almost as if they're really plotting or attempting

649
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:04.559
to pen all of this on one single elusive killer

650
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:08.239
to keep them all kind of hush hush as to

651
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:13.480
the actual involvement of the individuals that are responsible for this,

652
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.360
which kind of reminds me of Henry Le Lucas and

653
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.239
Otis Toole in the sense that they kept trying to

654
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:26.119
close mass amount of unsolved murders on a single individual

655
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.159
kind of just keeps going in rhyme and reason with

656
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.519
what we see going on through these cases for many

657
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:38.480
many years. Yeah, I didn't, Yeah.

658
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:42.840
Point the writing on this map does not look like

659
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.599
Jack or Zodiac right now.

660
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:49.239
No, and some of the like I had indicated, I

661
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.159
had seen some of the handwriting was consistent with that

662
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:56.920
of Sandy Betts. And that's these capital letters in the

663
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:00.599
middle of lowercase writing, which we didn't really see lot of. Now,

664
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:03.960
the Zodiac was notorious for that capital K, but he

665
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:09.920
wasn't typically writing with any other capital letters in the

666
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:13.440
middle of lower case writing. So I did find that

667
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.920
to be rather interesting that there were some consistencies there.

668
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.599
I just haven't sat down to literally map all of

669
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:22.920
that handwriting out as to whether or not it who

670
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.880
it pertains to. I did speak to her not too

671
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.639
long ago, Sandy Betts, and I had asked her she

672
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.199
wanted to come back on during the eighties series in

673
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.599
order to kind of go through some of this information

674
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:38.119
in chronological order, and she had indicated that somebody had

675
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:42.000
reached out to her who she thought she was going

676
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.639
to either be interviewing with or talking to in regards

677
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:47.960
to it, that she felt might be a good person

678
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:51.079
with leads to who the Zodiac was. I'm not sure

679
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.599
she's talking about this new girl that's on Facebook that

680
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:58.880
is just absolutely ridiculous in her assertions or who it

681
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:00.880
is she didn't mention, but she said she wanted to

682
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.440
hold off before coming back onto this podcast because she

683
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.719
thought that that might yield some good information in some way.

684
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.719
So we'll see one quick point.

685
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.519
My hypothesis is that that writing is the writing of

686
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.599
a woman, not a man. Do you think so, yeah,

687
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:24.840
I might be stereotyping, but it just just yeah, yeah,

688
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.320
it looks more like that. But that's just stereotyping. I

689
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.400
don't know, it's a hypothesis, you know.

690
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.039
One of the reasons why I don't really kind of

691
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:42.159
buy into the people who create guidelines like let's see

692
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:46.440
swig Dog and who was the very first people I

693
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:49.199
want to say it was the ast M. They had

694
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:53.119
guidelines for for document examiners and what they felt that

695
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:58.000
we could do within our abilities of determining handwriting and authorship.

696
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:00.719
And one of them was handed now whether or not

697
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:04.039
somebody was left or right handed, And another one was gender.

698
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:06.320
And these are two areas I attempt to stay away

699
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:10.960
from because we all deviate from the way we learn

700
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:14.119
the lesson to write. And who's to say that just

701
00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:17.719
because one enters one direction and another enters another that

702
00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:23.079
that has to do with handedness. Also, the idea behind

703
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:26.039
a left hander is typically they have a leftward slant,

704
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.639
and that's due to the way that they have to

705
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.719
write and keep their hands out of the mix of

706
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:33.960
what they're writing lest they actively, you know, cause things

707
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:36.679
to smear and smudge. And I am one of those

708
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.400
people as a left hander that writes perpendicular straight up

709
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:41.480
and down, and I do not hold my hand in

710
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.079
that same fashion. So how would somebody be able to

711
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:46.880
determine I was left handed if I did not carry

712
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:50.360
through with those same type of attributes. As far as

713
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.840
gender is concerned, I have seen females with horrible handwriting

714
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.000
that look worse than men. I've seen men with flamboyant, beautiful,

715
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.400
gorgeous handwriting that look like women's handwriting. So that's another

716
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:04.079
area I tend to stay away from because I don't

717
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:07.679
think there's really any way that you can genderize handwriting

718
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.239
or determine if they're left or right handed without some

719
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:14.400
pretty strong points. Sometimes you can tell that it's a

720
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:18.519
left hander, and sometimes you cannot. So I err on

721
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.800
those as a reason as to why I don't buy

722
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.039
into some of these societal guidelines that are out there

723
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:29.079
for us as document examiners. All right, that brings us

724
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:31.960
on to October. Go ahead, both.

725
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.320
I just wanted to say quickly, when you talk about

726
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:39.519
flowery handwriting, and I've seen it recently Jimmy Carter, he

727
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:45.639
wrote like a southern genteel man flowery, very yeah. So

728
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:48.480
you know Jack has.

729
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.880
Beautiful Yeah, Jack has beautiful cursive. As far as I'm concerned,

730
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:58.079
his cursive is very nice, especially for somebody who isn't

731
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.639
as educated as we'd expect them to be, because typically speaking,

732
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:05.159
you only really hone in your skill and develop really

733
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:09.159
beautiful curse of handwriting by doing it consistently. And usually

734
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:12.239
that's by going through college. That's by you know, doing

735
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:15.760
something that causes you to exercise and practice it.

736
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.239
I think he went into the College of Intel Community,

737
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.039
so all the stuff I see there pick up on

738
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.760
Latin and German word, Spanish words, so just non official

739
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:36.119
universities that you know. He's definitely has education, right.

740
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.440
No, he does. And we do show lots of after

741
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:44.320
military type schools, you know, for TV and for firefighting

742
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.239
and things like that. But I just don't get the

743
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:50.039
impression that you're writing essays in those type of systems,

744
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.280
you know. I mean that's usually kind of a technical

745
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:56.039
course where you focus simply on what it is the

746
00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:58.880
task at hand, which is learning whatever that field is.

747
00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:03.239
Versus when you're taking English classes and debate classes and

748
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:07.159
other classes in college that require you to actively handwrite.

749
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:11.320
I mean, obviously before computers, handwrite your papers and your essays,

750
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.880
and that's where you get a majority of your practice.

751
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:20.440
October first of nineteen eighty three, we have twenty year

752
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:24.039
old Heidi vio Real Fi or Fae in Texas. Do

753
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:26.039
you know if I have her name correct? I wrote

754
00:45:26.039 --> 00:45:28.079
five or fail. I wasn't sure it was.

755
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:34.360
I've done her and she's a victim of Robert abele In.

756
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.760
But yeah, it's hard to pronounce. They'll in a way

757
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:41.840
fry yeah.

758
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:45.559
Va reul, Yeah, y, yeah she was. She was found

759
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:49.000
April fourth, nineteen eighty four. Went missing six months previous.

760
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:52.199
Went to use a payphone at the League City convenience store,

761
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.199
which is kind of one of the same place areas

762
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.639
and type that Laura Miller was taken from. Her father

763
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.000
is Tim Miller. He's the one I say that got

764
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:06.920
the finale letter. She was beaten to death with a

765
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.000
club had broken bones found in the killing fields where

766
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:14.000
Miller and two j Jane Does were found. And of

767
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.639
course I did put in here that this could be

768
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:18.440
Jack visiting mom before going to jail. He's back in

769
00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:20.440
Texas at this point, because we see a couple of

770
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.639
things that actually occurred during this timeframe. On October third

771
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:27.039
of nineteen eighty three, we get a letter that comes

772
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.639
out that says, you got my first. It's postmarked Kalamazoo, Michigan.

773
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:34.760
Have you seen this letter or know of its existence, Harriet.

774
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.920
I'm gonna have to look into that one when I'm

775
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:41.400
through with the current things that I'm sucked into.

776
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:48.880
It definitely starts out like that. It definitely starts out

777
00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:51.920
like a Okay, hold on, Harriet. It definitely starts out

778
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:54.599
like a statement that the zodiac that would give you've

779
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:56.960
got my first, or you found my first, or now

780
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:59.960
you've found my initial activity in Riverside, as he states

781
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:03.480
in regards to Sherry Joe Bates, it's going back to Michigan,

782
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:06.519
which we're coming out of that area of the Michigan stuff.

783
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:12.559
And of course we also have the uh, let's see

784
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.400
October twenty sixth of nineteen eighty three, Saundra is Sandra

785
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:18.440
Rambler and Santa Fe, Texas went missing. She was abducted

786
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.360
on her way to the store. I don't believe that

787
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.559
they'd found her body, but we on Oh, I'm sorry,

788
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:26.679
I skipped over the fact that Jack is actively requesting

789
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:29.519
a divorce on October twentieth, the nineteen eighty three from

790
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:33.440
Nora Coffin on Nora Terrence at this point, so not

791
00:47:33.480 --> 00:47:36.599
only is he selling his guns, he's divorcing his wife.

792
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.840
He's basically free to come and go as he pleases.

793
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:43.760
And we see these things that are going on in Texas,

794
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.599
and we're seeing more communications that are popping up on

795
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.800
October twenty, Oh, we just did Sondra Rambler. But that

796
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.239
brings us to a November two of nineteen eighty three,

797
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:57.280
which is the Corvette Concepts murder that happened in Texas,

798
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:01.079
and it was Beth Wilburn, Thomas McGraw and Jameses. Beth

799
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.800
was stabbed one hundred and twenty nine times, which seems

800
00:48:03.840 --> 00:48:08.920
like a horrible overkill. In addition, yeah, in addition to

801
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.079
being shot, it says McGraw was shot and stabbed fifteen

802
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:17.639
times by a sharpened screwdriver embedded in his spine. Now,

803
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:19.280
of course we can see over here to the right.

804
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.519
This is a portion of the finale letter that was

805
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.519
sent to Tim Miller that goes to Tom Lomble, five

806
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:29.079
ninety five West, Main League City, Texas, and it says

807
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:34.679
Corvette concepts fiasco mystery. So he's literally included this I

808
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:38.000
believe as one of the events that he was involved with.

809
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:42.480
We're not going to be able to carry one.

810
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:45.280
Okay, I've done then that one too. But he had

811
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:50.079
the information and god, those people that did this and

812
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:55.000
witnesses and who was driving one of the vehicles. I

813
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:55.599
can go on.

814
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.559
But so you have completed to solve on. You have

815
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:00.679
complete it solved on that.

816
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:05.519
It's here involving it. It's who the real who the

817
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:09.280
killers are. But he definitely had the information and it

818
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.840
was a fiasco. It was a mess. Yeah.

819
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:15.559
I do show that there are rest made. We do

820
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.079
show that as it was. But come May twelfth of

821
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:23.480
twenty twenty one, it's back to it's being offered for

822
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:27.280
answers in a cold case murder. So as late as

823
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:29.679
twenty twenty one, they're stating they still don't have the

824
00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:32.119
answers or the killer involved. With this case. So it

825
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:34.400
just kind of goes to show you what media will

826
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.840
do as far as you know, promoting false news and

827
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:40.360
putting things out there that oh yeah, and the rest

828
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.039
is made. But what happened? And then back to oh,

829
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.559
it's a cold case murder again, all right, you guys,

830
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:46.960
that's all we have the time for him and a

831
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:51.039
pickup where we left off here next week and we

832
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:53.679
will come back to the Corvette concepts because there's a

833
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:56.880
whole lot more to say about this particular crime. Thank

834
00:49:56.920 --> 00:49:58.840
you guys for being here, and you all have a

835
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:00.760
wonderful weekend. We'll see you next Friday.

836
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:02.119
See you next Friday.

837
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.840
Happy weekend, Happy week every weekend, everybody.

838
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:20.440
H m

839
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:30.360
Hm