Jan. 2, 2026

Zodiac the Untold Story by Dennis Kaufman

Zodiac the Untold Story by Dennis Kaufman
iHeartRadio podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Audacy podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon Castamatic podcast player icon Fountain podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podurama podcast player icon Podyssey podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon
iHeartRadio podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Audacy podcast player icon TuneIn podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon Castamatic podcast player icon Fountain podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podurama podcast player icon Podyssey podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon

Happy New Year to the true crime junkies and truth seekers. It is that time again to play one of Dennis Kaufman’s documentaries on Jack W. Tarrance, Jr. who is one of the best suspects for the Zodiac Killer crimes and so much more. Training, education, proximity, personality, handwriting ability, childhood, military, coding and ciphering, engineering, mechanical and technical experience, guns and cars of interest are all a check with documents and a paper trail that supports the probability.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:48.679
Writers on the storm, Writers on the storm in Judas

2
00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:53.280
House of Barn into.

3
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:54.759
This world withdrawn.

4
00:00:56.920 --> 00:01:01.280
Like a dog without a bone, and we're out alone,

5
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:06.079
Riders on the Storm.

6
00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:11.879
There's a killer on the road. His brain is squaring

7
00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:24.959
like a toe. He glow day. Let your children play.

8
00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.400
If you kill this man, a ride sweep all I

9
00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:29.480
will die.

10
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:59.760
Killer on the road.

11
00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.879
That goes on in San Francisco for the man known

12
00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:12.240
as the Zodiac Killer.

13
00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:14.400
That was the threat of the Zodiac Killer.

14
00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.479
But the Zodiac Killer seems to be save publicity.

15
00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:26.639
UNTI, threatening more murders and making the Bay Area resident

16
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:27.599
bary catch.

17
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.240
Four years ago, the killing stopped, and so did Zodiac's letter.

18
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:55.759
Now there's another letter.

19
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:54.039
Hoping to find a mass murderer known as the Zodiac Killer.

20
00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:57.919
He is a pathological psycho killer.

21
00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.000
The aces cases.

22
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.199
The guy who solves this is going to be the

23
00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:02.599
greatest detective treble flood.

24
00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.719
It's and pieces of information, leads and tips from people

25
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:08.199
who want to help catch the Zodiac Killer.

26
00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:10.759
I've been pouring into police headquarters here at the Hall

27
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:11.400
of Justice for.

28
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:12.680
The last Zodiac Killer.

29
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:17.800
They have an arrested movie because they can't prove a thing.

30
00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.039
I'm not the damn Zodiac.

31
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.480
Pleasement.

32
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:21.240
I want to report a double murder.

33
00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:22.360
No One.

34
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:27.079
While host on Columbus park Way Public Park, they'll find

35
00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.199
kids in a brown car. They were shot with a

36
00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:34.560
kny of Della Peter Luther I also killed those kids

37
00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:35.079
last year.

38
00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:55.040
Good I, oh my god, he's got a gun.

39
00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:56.920
Don't move.

40
00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:59.399
I want your money and your car keys.

41
00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.439
Okay, we're not gonna do anything. Okay, we're gonna call

42
00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.120
for it. Tell me what you want us to do.

43
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:37.160
So I got up.

44
00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:58.920
I've got an abandon white.

45
00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:04.399
Not a voice, but I want to be there.

46
00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:07.000
Two miles north of the parking headquarters.

47
00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:13.000
They were in a white on tick of CARMANI I'm

48
00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:13.639
not going to do that.

49
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:29.240
In a letter.

50
00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.680
Made it very clear that the person that was writing was.

51
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:35.839
The murderer.

52
00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.279
And one California man and no convinced his stepfather was

53
00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:49.959
the Zodiac.

54
00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:52.160
He launched the website to prove it.

55
00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:58.800
It built a details but circumstantial case against Jack Harris, amateur.

56
00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:00.920
Hunter an electrician died laughing heart.

57
00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:05.519
Point ally left is to tell my story and hopefully

58
00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.399
bring closer to the victim's families that they have a

59
00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.839
right to know, they deserve to know who the killer was.

60
00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.920
My name is Stephen Doverst. I'm an associate professor at

61
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:25.120
Northern Arizona University. After investigating Dennis Kaufman's evidence in his

62
00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.759
case for his stepfather being the Zodiac Killer, at this point,

63
00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.560
I am completely convinced that Jack Terrence was in fact

64
00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:36.759
the Zodiac Killer, and probably a whole lot more.

65
00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:48.040
Join me tonight in my search for the truth Zodiac

66
00:07:48.319 --> 00:08:08.639
the Untold Story.

67
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.199
My name is Dennis Coffin. Jack is the only father

68
00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:13.839
I ever knew.

69
00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:17.839
My mother met him in South Lake Tahoe in nineteen seventy.

70
00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.399
I was just a few years old when they met.

71
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:26.319
I remember the first time that I met Jack. I

72
00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:27.920
walked in the living room and he had his arm

73
00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:32.559
around my mother and I walked over to him. I said,

74
00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:37.320
get your arm off of my mother. Well, you look

75
00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.159
at me, and he says we need to have a talk.

76
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.840
So he took me in the bedroom and he gave

77
00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.960
me a whooping and he said, listen. He says, I

78
00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:46.519
don't want to be here any more than you want

79
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:47.080
me here.

80
00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.159
But I have no choice. Well I never knew what

81
00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:51.960
he meant by that until now.

82
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.559
Here's a photo of Jack from nineteen seventy one, next

83
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:02.960
to the composite of the Zodiac Killer from nineteen sixty nine.

84
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.080
The photo of Jack was taken in nineteen seventy three.

85
00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.360
The Sonoma composite was done in nineteen seventy five. Noticed

86
00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:15.759
the lazy left eye. Here is a photo of Jack

87
00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:20.120
in nineteen sixty seven, and this composite of the Zodiac

88
00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:23.840
was done in nineteen sixty nine. I took words from

89
00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:27.200
the Zodiac letters that he mailed to police, and I

90
00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.279
also took words from the letters that Jack sent me

91
00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.639
over the years. The top row of words is Zodiac's

92
00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:36.960
writing and the road just beneath it is Jack's writing.

93
00:09:38.279 --> 00:10:00.000
You can see the similarities. The only difference I note

94
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.039
the writing.

95
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:03.679
Was the letter A.

96
00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:06.000
If you look at the word page, you can see that.

97
00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:06.879
The a's are different.

98
00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:14.960
Jack sometimes forgets and writes the letter A like he

99
00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:20.039
did on the Zodiac letters. The word act, and then

100
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.320
we have the word age. Both of those a's are

101
00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:26.440
written like they are on the Zodiac letters. Then you

102
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.039
have the word dad with the Jack's normal style of

103
00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:30.279
his A.

104
00:10:34.519 --> 00:10:37.360
In Zodiac's writing, we find the odds splitting of words.

105
00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.080
This is a letter that Zodiac sent to the San

106
00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:44.440
Francisco Chronicle in January of nineteen seventy four. If you

107
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.200
look on the second line at the word comedy, you

108
00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:51.200
see the com then it's split and the idy continues

109
00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.440
on the third line. There's plenty of rooms for that

110
00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.039
word to be written in.

111
00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.639
In Jack's writing, we find this same odd splitting of words.

112
00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.240
The word automatically is cut off and the ly continues

113
00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.960
on the next line. Once again, there's plenty of room

114
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:14.279
for that word to be written there. Another odd characteristic

115
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:20.879
about Zodiac's writing is the odds spacing in his words.

116
00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.399
We find the same odd characteristics in Jack's writing, the

117
00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:33.600
odd spacing in his words, insubordination, argumentive disregards, et cetera.

118
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:42.440
On March nineteenth, nineteen seventy one, Zodiac mailed this card

119
00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.600
to the San Francisco Chronicle, who was mailed from Pleasington, California.

120
00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:51.519
The card is a rendition of an area in Lake Tomhoe.

121
00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:52.639
This is where we were.

122
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.200
Living at the time.

123
00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:57.720
Jack cout to coordinate in San Jose, California, the very

124
00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:59.559
same day that this postcard was mailed.

125
00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:02.840
He would have had to go right through Pleasington on

126
00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:05.519
his way to court. That day we were living in

127
00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:06.440
south like Tahoe.

128
00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:10.480
He would have took Highway fifty down through Sacramento, then

129
00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:11.919
on the six to eighty south.

130
00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:13.399
Right through Pleasington.

131
00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:15.279
This is where the letter was mailed that day. This

132
00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:16.799
is where his court Nate was in San Jose.

133
00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:23.080
After Zodiac mailed this card on March nineteenth, nineteen seventy one,

134
00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:30.120
he went silent for three years. Jack was put on

135
00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.919
probation at the exact same time Zodiac went silent for

136
00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.399
three years. In January nineteen seventy four, Zodiac broke us

137
00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.720
through your silence and sent his letter to the San

138
00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:41.759
Francisco Chronicle.

139
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:53.799
On March seventeen, nineteen seventy four, Jack was arrested for poaching.

140
00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:10.000
On May eighth, nineteen seventy four. Zodiac dropped this letter

141
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.480
in a mailbox in San Rafel, California.

142
00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.360
Just two days later, on May.

143
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.279
Tenth, nineteen seventy four, Jack was sentenced to thirty days

144
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.039
in jail. He was taken right into custody from court.

145
00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:26.240
This is the first time Jack had done any jail time.

146
00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.039
Zodiac was never heard from again.

147
00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:32.679
Is it capable of doing something like murder?

148
00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:33.080
Yes?

149
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:45.000
Based on what I remember growing up. He has told

150
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.919
enough stories that makes me think that he has committed murdered.

151
00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:50.000
Hearing what I've heard.

152
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:53.360
Going out in the cold blood.

153
00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.039
And murders hard for me to believe.

154
00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:56.639
Is it possible?

155
00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:57.559
Yeah?

156
00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.039
Probably?

157
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.639
An All I remember is him pulling out of back

158
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.360
at night, and I just remember horrified because I.

159
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:04.639
Had no moment lots to see that person. Do you

160
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.879
believe he dances Oviat killer? Do I believe my dances

161
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:14.120
Oviet killer? I know that the the evidence.

162
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.679
Is is is there that there's a there's.

163
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.200
A really big possibility Okay that he is.

164
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:22.240
I know he's capable of it.

165
00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:23.759
Okay, I've seen that side of him.

166
00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:24.960
Oh yeah.

167
00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.080
But uh that was after he told me that him

168
00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.519
and uh, him and Denny had.

169
00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:33.080
Killed that man in that cabin the day that we

170
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:33.759
got him up there.

171
00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.200
He got him up at dead to the house and

172
00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:38.799
I asked him straight up, you know, I've heard some.

173
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:40.879
Bad things about you, Jack, And I said, you've told

174
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.799
me some bad things about you, I said, but I wanna.

175
00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:44.840
Know who are you?

176
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:46.279
You straight in front of him.

177
00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:47.759
And yeah, And he got pissed.

178
00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.320
He stood up and uh, he goes, why can't you

179
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.399
just leave the fucking guy's alone.

180
00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.960
God damn the loan and left.

181
00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:56.759
He left the house.

182
00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:59.080
He came back with a bottle of whiskey.

183
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.200
And anybody who knows me knows I don't drink after

184
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:04.320
anybody in my own children, fairly, my own life.

185
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.720
And if you remember the statement he made him on

186
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.720
the way to California, was if you knew who I was,

187
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:15.200
you did like. And when I asked him who he was, and.

188
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.879
He came back with that whiskey, he took a big

189
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.120
nasty drink of it and handed me the bones.

190
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:36.120
You still, my friend, You could heal a london. You

191
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.919
don't can fall the stall when you can't fell a

192
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:45.600
lion of what he stalks his prad. He's moving like

193
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:46.679
a shadow.

194
00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:52.240
Leaping the bone, doing a side of his wall. He's

195
00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.720
going to half his way.

196
00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:02.159
At a ride.

197
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:05.799
Don't make us stand, Just up aside.

198
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.360
And you'll trot down life taste.

199
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.919
Don't try away or lose your stakes.

200
00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.799
Rea found this sudden less a nature.

201
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:22.279
It's a natural release.

202
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:34.360
You won't hear a footstep coming along you moving like

203
00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:36.679
a snake. He's a complete control.

204
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.200
This killer knows his business.

205
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.320
He is the thread of tall You won't resol and

206
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.240
talkt your resuly call.

207
00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:52.480
Wonder will you say?

208
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:53.759
What will you do?

209
00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.720
Your wireless like pass on and trouble.

210
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.400
There's nothing you can't say, no way to change you

211
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.640
want to mastory will face.

212
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:16.559
It's an.

213
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.759
If you're playing your autels.

214
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.960
But I don't time the school is just listening to

215
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:52.920
the voice.

216
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:40.680
Most of the items I found in Jack Storge had

217
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.960
run I searched it in two thousand and one were

218
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:48.799
found in this green metal box. In December of nineteen

219
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.119
sixty eight, a white Chevy and Paula was seen leaving

220
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:55.440
the crime scene at the Lake Herman murders well. During

221
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.440
that time, Jack owned a white Chevy and Paula. In

222
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.200
September of nineteen sixty nine, Zodiac attacked a young couple

223
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.480
on the shores of Lake Berriessa. Witnesses reported seeing an

224
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.720
ice blue Tudor Chevy and Paula that day. Here's a

225
00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:13.279
photo of Jack in nineteen seventy one standing in front

226
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.440
of his ice blue Tudor Chevy and Paula.

227
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.720
This is Jack's hypnosis symbol.

228
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:25.680
In his own writing, Zodiac uses the same symbol.

229
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.319
Doctor Zodiac not ordinary criminal.

230
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.119
He is man of great ego with disease known.

231
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.079
To science as pseudo Lochia fantastica.

232
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.559
Criminal egotist find pleasure in laughing at police.

233
00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:53.160
Jack was stationed at Treasure Island during the time this

234
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:58.960
movie was playing there. In September of nineteen sixty nine,

235
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.519
Zodiac attacked couple on the shores of Lake barri Essa.

236
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.519
At the crime scene, he left behind shoe impressions. Police

237
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:07.440
were able to determine that they came from a rare

238
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.720
military shoe called a wingwalker. They were designed for walking

239
00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:12.000
on the wings of airplanes.

240
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:16.039
Jack would have had access to these military shoes when

241
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.279
he was a technical supply sergeant for the United States

242
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.680
Air Force. On June third, two thousand and three, I

243
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.880
was at myself on the store and Jack was there too,

244
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.359
and he found one of my guns that I had

245
00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:30.440
hidden in the back.

246
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:32.240
Well.

247
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.000
I saw him with a gun, so I grabbed my

248
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.200
pistol from underneath the counter, and luckily my little brother

249
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.200
was in between us, because one of us probably would

250
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.559
have shot each other. Well, just after this incident, a

251
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.519
customer walked in named Tracy. She had been in my

252
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:48.279
store prior to that, and I knew she was married

253
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.079
to a sheriff, and she walked in my store and

254
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:54.359
she could tell something was wrong, and I was trying

255
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.319
to play it off, so you know, it wasn't obvious

256
00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:59.880
that something had just happened. And about that time, Jack

257
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.039
came from the back and handed me something like a pensil.

258
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.440
I don't remember what it was, but he handed me

259
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.200
something and Tracy was like in shock like and she said,

260
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.480
who is that man? I said, Tracy, you really wanna know?

261
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.440
And she said, yes, I do, so I told her

262
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.359
and she left and there was three second went of

263
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.519
Sheriff's at my store within twenty minutes that she had

264
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.359
sent down there, and they interviewed Jack, and.

265
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.440
This is her story.

266
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.720
Display I noticed there was a man standing at the

267
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:39.079
door that the back door, and he was just staring

268
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.079
at me, and I looked up and I said, Hi,

269
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:41.559
how are you?

270
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.240
And he just looked at me. He had no expression

271
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:48.119
on his face whatsoever. It was very eerie, to say

272
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.559
the least. So Dennis was saying, Tracy, could you please

273
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:54.160
go get Ralph.

274
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.039
Ralph is your expert.

275
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.440
Fiance, he's a deputy chair. And I said, yes, I

276
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.160
will do what's going on here? And it it was

277
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:05.359
very weird. It was it, it it it was very scary.

278
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.880
So as we were talking, he started telling me a

279
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:11.960
few things and I was like, what the hell are

280
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:12.599
you telling me?

281
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.079
This is that person? And he was like, Tracy, yes

282
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:19.680
he is. That's my step dad and please would you

283
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.559
go be around for me? Please? Yeah, And I went

284
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.440
to the parking lot. I got in my car and

285
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.480
I called a a a news channel.

286
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.519
I can't remember if it was thirteen three year ten,

287
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.319
but it is on file, yes, And I had said

288
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:38.480
something to something to the fact of, you know, I'm

289
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.599
here at this place and this guy in the store,

290
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:43.839
and I told him what just happened. I just told you,

291
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.559
and he said, my god, are you kidding me? Are

292
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:48.680
you close to a sheriff's station? I said, well, yeah.

293
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.759
I drove to the service center.

294
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.400
I walked in and the lieutenant was in there, and

295
00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.000
I asked him please go to the back with me.

296
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:57.640
They all met me and the followed me.

297
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.160
To the back.

298
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.599
They knew me as yea with Ralph and everything exactly,

299
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.559
and they sat down with me, and I was petrified

300
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.440
they knew and I told them the story. They got

301
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.720
on their phones and they were, you know, questioning me

302
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:13.559
about this and that they were one of them. Or

303
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:15.880
Rick was upset and saying, you know, this isn't cool,

304
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.359
you know, to that effect that if this guy is

305
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.119
making this up, this is not okay to tell the

306
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:25.480
public that this person is the Zodiac Killer and making

307
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.000
this upset of course, and I remember telling him, you

308
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:31.640
know what, I don't know so much about the Zodiac Killer,

309
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:32.640
but I can tell you one thing.

310
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.440
This man that was standing there looking at me made

311
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.319
my skin crawl. It was unbelievable.

312
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:46.000
In February of nineteen ninety nine, my mother just had

313
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:50.039
her leg amputated from just below the knee down due

314
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:50.799
to diabetes.

315
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.440
Well after she had her leg amputator, I noticed a

316
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:55.000
red spot.

317
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:56.880
It looked like it might be getting infected, so I

318
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.359
didn't want to take any chances, so I talked to

319
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:01.319
her into going to the hospital and having it checked out.

320
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:04.119
When we arrived at E. C.

321
00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:07.119
Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, the doctor agreed that she

322
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.599
needed to stay for a few days to watch it,

323
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:11.839
make sure there was no infection, make sure the infection

324
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.480
went away.

325
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.319
Well while she was in the hospital.

326
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:21.400
She was there for about three days and the doctor

327
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.400
said she's okay to go home. So we said we'd

328
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.400
be there tomorrow the next morning to pick her up

329
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.880
to take her home, and the next morning she was

330
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.119
found on a floor in a coma.

331
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:35.039
Nobody knows what happened.

332
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.680
While my mother was on life support, I went to

333
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:43.640
the hospital to visit her, and to my surprise, I

334
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:46.000
was wanted for terrorist threats that I did not make.

335
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:48.319
I was barely able to make.

336
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.119
Out of the hospital without getting caught, so I sent

337
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:52.920
my girlfriend Joy back down there to see what was

338
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.759
going on. Come to find out, Jack, my stepdad, had

339
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.400
called the hospital and said he was me and he

340
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.319
threatened to kill the security guards. I was wanted for

341
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.960
terrorist threads and my mother passed away before I was.

342
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:06.799
Able to clear that up.

343
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:13.880
Okay, when I was in Washington and we were visiting Charles,

344
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.680
and Jack called me into his room and and said, Mary,

345
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:19.400
he says, I want to ask you something, and I

346
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:21.960
want to annoy if if you really think that I'd

347
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.359
kill Nora. And I said, well, Jack, all you have

348
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.400
to do is search your conscience, and if you have

349
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.440
a clear conscience, then you don't have to worry about anything.

350
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.480
The plan for Zodiac's bomb came from the schematic of

351
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.200
a up fifteen teleprinter. These machines are used by Ham

352
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:53.599
radio operators. Jack was a Ham radio operator. The bomb

353
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.200
diagram on the left is zodiac diagram and the bomb

354
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.440
diagram on the right is one that I found in

355
00:25:59.519 --> 00:25:59.960
Jack's store.

356
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.279
Is why I searched it in two thousand and one.

357
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:34.920
GC.

358
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:47.319
So that case, we have three different composites from three

359
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.240
different counties. We have the San Francisco composite that was

360
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:55.400
done in nineteen sixty nine. Then we have the Sonoma

361
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.759
County composite that was done in nineteen seventy five. Now,

362
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.279
but the county had their own composite and it looked

363
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:05.599
nothing like the others. Who was this mysterious man in

364
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:13.599
this composite? This is Jack's oldest biological son, Denny. I

365
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.480
remember reading the letter that he had sent his dad

366
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.039
from Vietnam. The letter ended with Dad, you would love

367
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:19.480
it over here.

368
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:27.279
It's hunting season all year long. By March of two

369
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:29.759
thousand and one, I was fed up with the answers

370
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:31.039
I was getting from.

371
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.960
Different law enforcement agencies regarding Jack's involved in the Zodiac case.

372
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.440
So I decided I should call him and just to

373
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:40.279
see what he had to say.

374
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:43.759
But before I called him, I had to find a

375
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:45.799
way to make him feel comfortable about talking to me

376
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.119
about his past. So what I did was I told

377
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.920
him I discovered who he was, and I wanted to

378
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:54.559
write a book, but it wouldn't be published till he

379
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:55.000
was dead.

380
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.240
And he agreed to give him the information, you know

381
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:00.599
what I mean.

382
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:02.640
But I wouldn't wanna uh.

383
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:09.920
Uh after after it's written as fiction now and after

384
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.839
I'm gone, uh, which some days I don't think you'll

385
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.160
be long right uh.

386
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:19.119
Some days I feel like it'll be a.

387
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.319
Long time twenty years from now around yeah, yeah, right right,

388
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.160
I I I undertand I'm I don't I.

389
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:29.400
Don't wanna play anything else, tire. It's gonna bring a.

390
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.880
Prosecution before you go. And you know it's not my intention,

391
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.480
you know, yeah, I can you know, I just tick

392
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.200
myself in the answer that'll not you know, just listen

393
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.799
to your closer, because every little years thought.

394
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.480
That you know, motion the things I didn't I and uh,

395
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:49.559
they have no proof.

396
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.319
Right, could just be like circumstantial.

397
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:57.480
Yeah right right, I'm about you worried about it. It Uh.

398
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:05.839
It's one of the people I know would right right right,

399
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.359
I give you said, yeah, it was a known fact that.

400
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:13.240
Uh, it would mean.

401
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:19.920
People come up to me all the time and say down,

402
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.559
why don't you move on from the study at case

403
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.200
will you answer to that?

404
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:24.759
Is simple?

405
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.960
Dug in the base deserts.

406
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:37.319
Me taste.

407
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:54.079
And the uppings looking in an.

408
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:58.720
See the name.

409
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:02.599
And massa.

410
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.880
On March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one, the Zodiac mailed this

411
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:42.599
letter to the Los Angeles Times. It was mailed from Pleasanton, California.

412
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.279
It says, this is the Zodiac speaking like I have

413
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:48.000
always said, I am crackproof.

414
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:49.720
If the Blue Minis.

415
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:51.640
Are ever going to catch me, they had better get

416
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:54.319
off their fat asses and do something, because the longer

417
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:57.640
they fiddle and fart around, the more slaves I will collect.

418
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.960
For my afterlife. I do have to give them credit

419
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.160
for stumbling across.

420
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:04.480
My riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones.

421
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:06.680
There are a hell of a lot more down there.

422
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.440
The reason that I am writing to the Times is this.

423
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.400
They don't put me on their back pages like they

424
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:12.759
did some.

425
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:13.319
Of the others.

426
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:37.000
San Francisco, PD zero Zodiac seventeen plus, one month after

427
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.400
the murder of Sherry Joe Bates, her killer sent this

428
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:47.359
confession letter to the Daily Enterprise. The letter begins with

429
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.480
she was young and beautiful, but now she is battered

430
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:52.799
and dead. She is not the first and she will

431
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:59.279
not be the last. The killer claimed that he plunged

432
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:03.359
the knife into her and it broke. Police also described

433
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:03.920
the knife.

434
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.119
As being about three and a half inches long by

435
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.240
half inch wide with a broken and bent tip. Well,

436
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.039
this is a knife that I found in jack storchd

437
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:13.680
when I searched it in two thousand and one.

438
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.440
Just six months after the murder of Shary Joe Bates,

439
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.920
her killer sent three different letters. One of the letters

440
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.079
went to the Riverside Police Department. It said Bates had

441
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:35.599
to die.

442
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:36.920
There will be more.

443
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.559
Another letter went to Sherry Joe Bates's father, Joseph Bates.

444
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.519
It said she had to die there will be more also.

445
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.319
And the third letter that was mailed in April of

446
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.880
nineteen sixty seven, went to the Press Enterprise in Riverside.

447
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:01.160
Ex Communications to local Barrier newspapers began. Just like in Riverside,

448
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:20.200
he sent three different letters. It seems as though Zodiac

449
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.960
is fascinated with time. Zodiac sent a map of northern

450
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:29.039
California to Bay Area newspapers and over Mount Diablo, he

451
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:32.480
put his infamous symbol. But if you notice in his symbol,

452
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.400
you see a three, six and nine, just as if

453
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.960
it was a watch base. This is the watch that

454
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:40.960
was found at the Scherry Joe Bates crime scene in

455
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:45.680
nineteen sixty six in Riverside, California. The murder took place

456
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:48.559
at about ten thirty PM, but this watch was stopped

457
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:52.480
at twelve twenty three. If we use Mount Diablo as

458
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.200
a centerpoint for the clockhands, the murder of Sharry Joe

459
00:33:55.240 --> 00:34:02.319
Bates would be at twelve twenty three. When I asked

460
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.640
Jack specifically if he was a Zodiac killer, listen to

461
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:06.400
what he had to say.

462
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:10.400
Killinger might have to bagine the things.

463
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.079
I say, what's happened.

464
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:19.440
I remember when we were younger, he would take us camping,

465
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:22.199
and when we got to our camping spot, he would

466
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.320
take his AM radio, his map, and his compass.

467
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:27.519
What he would do is take his AM radio and

468
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:28.599
he'd find an AM station.

469
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:31.559
He'd point the radio in that direction and wherever the

470
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:33.960
radio cut off at he knew there was a station

471
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.639
in that direction. He would take two stations and do

472
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:39.320
that with and he would take and draw a line

473
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:42.599
and somehow pinpoint our location on the map. I never

474
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:47.079
understood why you did this until now. Udiak ended one

475
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.960
of his letters with ps. The Mount Diablo code concerns

476
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:55.880
radiance and inches along the radiance. This killer was after

477
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.159
something completely different.

478
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.079
Bodiac also sent a map of the Bay area and

479
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:05.199
over the top of Mount Diablo.

480
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:06.320
He put his infamous symbol.

481
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.679
Zodiac mentioned the word radians in his letter, But what

482
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:23.039
exactly is a radian? A radian is an angle of

483
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:27.960
fifty seven point three degrees. But what did this have

484
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:35.679
to do with Zodiac Mount Diablo. In nineteen eighty a

485
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.000
man by the name of Garth Penn made a pretty

486
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:39.199
significant discovery.

487
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:41.360
Garth Penn.

488
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:46.079
Connected the murder site of Paulstine in San Francisco to

489
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:47.239
the top of Mount Diablo.

490
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.239
Then he took the two known murder sites.

491
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:52.559
Just outside Vallejo and connected then the Mount Diablo.

492
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.199
He discovered that it made an angle of fifty seven

493
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.880
point three degrees, a perfect radiant. Well, I took Penn's

494
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:03.159
theory and went a step further. I connected the crime

495
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.719
scene at Lake berry Essa to the top of Mount Diablo,

496
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:08.599
and I realized that it made an odd angle of

497
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:12.159
sixteen point two degrees. I did not realize the significance

498
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.599
yet at this point. I would later discover that six

499
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:24.000
radians plus sixteen point two degrees make a complete circle.

500
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.239
Mount Diablo is the center point for longitude and latitude.

501
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.079
This year is the top of.

502
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:38.519
Mount Diablo centerpory for longitude and latitude.

503
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:47.719
Here's a center point.

504
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:13.159
And said, you way, shult.

505
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:29.679
Made my senser. He'll I to read, so then I should.

506
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:45.280
Cat something talk. I can't dress.

507
00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:48.960
Or come in or.

508
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.000
Always did you ways shut?

509
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:02.719
Don't don't know which way you go.

510
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:12.119
But if you want to dun.

511
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:16.599
The moudir stand on the stone.

512
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.480
If you want to walk, you're gonna do allow the other.

513
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:25.480
Side over dare.

514
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:32.960
Fama rive? Where mar.

515
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:46.599
Go with no Jo?

516
00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:51.880
Don't know which way? You know?

517
00:38:52.679 --> 00:39:05.000
You got the shoes? Who has jumped?

518
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:05.519
The show?

519
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:24.920
More about the mountains, the store a.

520
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:27.360
Show.

521
00:39:27.519 --> 00:40:18.400
It probably the most famous of San Francisco homicide cases

522
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:21.880
in terms of unsolved cases, is a Zodiac case. And

523
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:27.039
literally every day we receive some type of notification message

524
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:30.280
in the mail or a phone call. Now we even

525
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.719
get email messages regarding this case. And so it was

526
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:39.400
decided that the case would be reactivated and assigned to

527
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.400
an active homicide team. There's a sub set of the

528
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:48.840
population that is obsessed with the case. To some it's

529
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:50.079
it's like a religion.

530
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:51.000
Appreciate it.

531
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.400
After Joe and I went to the FBI and they

532
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:07.159
listened to our story and I turned Jack in, we

533
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.719
both went back to our storage shed. We just kind

534
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:14.159
of was very sad because at that point I thought

535
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:17.119
I was gonna be putting Jack in prison, and my

536
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:20.360
l younger brother, Jack was his real dad and he

537
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.400
had just lost his mother, and now I was gonna

538
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:26.239
be taking his dad away from two. Then the reality

539
00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:28.559
hit of what was really going on. I think at

540
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:32.239
that point, after about a year year of dealing with

541
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:35.960
the zodiacting, my girlfriend and Joy couldn't take anymore. So

542
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.000
she moved up to Washington State with her aunt and

543
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.039
kind of got her own life going. I stayed behind

544
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.480
because I had to work on the case. I felt obligated.

545
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.440
After about six months, I decided I had had enough

546
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:54.639
of the case as myself as well, and I went

547
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.480
to Washington to pick up Joy to bring her back.

548
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.400
Before I could bring her back, I had to have

549
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:01.480
something to bring her back to.

550
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:04.159
So I talked to my uncle and he was gonna

551
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:05.800
help us start up a new cell phone store and

552
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:07.519
help us get on our feet again, and he did.

553
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:12.039
In in February of two thousand and two.

554
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:14.199
We had got our business going, our cell phone store,

555
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:18.800
had our own place for once, and everything was like

556
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:21.440
it was before. I was actually happy again. I had

557
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:23.760
left the Zodiac thing alone and we were we were

558
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.920
making we were making money. Everything was good, but that

559
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:35.199
was about to suddenly change. Our business had been successful

560
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.000
our first month. We were doing really good. We got

561
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.639
our own place and everything was good. And out of

562
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.559
the blue, Jack shows up at our front door from Texas,

563
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.280
and I told him, Jack, you can't stay here, and

564
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:50.960
he talked me into letting him stay one night, and

565
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.159
the following day he was to go to his brother's house.

566
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.079
His brother's house it was just down the road, his

567
00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:58.800
brother Dawn. And MY biggest mistake was letting him stay

568
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:03.239
that one night, after we all went to bed, we

569
00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:05.639
heard banging on the walls, and Jack was banging on

570
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.440
the walls and the neighbors were banging ba back, and

571
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:11.159
we were afraid we were gonna lose our place that

572
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:13.800
we'd just gotten. So I I couldn't take him where.

573
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.000
I called the cops on Jack, and UH told him

574
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.800
that I wanted to span out of my house. Well,

575
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:22.880
the cops took Jack outside and talked to him. It

576
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.000
wasn't but two or three minutes before he had him

577
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.079
convinced that he had dementia. So one of the cops

578
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:30.760
came over to me and says, your dad suffers from dementia,

579
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.840
and UH, there's nothing we can do. We can't remove

580
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.400
him from your house. And I said, well, he's not

581
00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.760
welcome here. Then the police officer proceeded to tell me

582
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:42.599
that not only can we not move him from your house,

583
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:44.800
if you kick him out, we're gonna charge you with

584
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.760
a felony for abandonment of an elderly person.

585
00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:53.840
At this point, I'd had enough. I went up to

586
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:54.559
my room.

587
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.880
And I grabbed my pistol. I couldn't take any more.

588
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:01.440
He was not going to ruin my life again.

589
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.000
At this point, and.

590
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.440
Joey wound up running out the front door, and that

591
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.119
was the last time I seen her. And now I'm

592
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:12.320
stuck living with a man that murdered my mother, and

593
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.039
all of a sudden, my life has did a one

594
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:17.079
hundred eygre return everything.

595
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:21.159
Arthur Lee Allen did not donate the biological material that

596
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:25.719
was recovered from the stamp or the SOD yet correspondence

597
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:27.679
that yielded this result.

598
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:31.159
When you write, you rest the heel of your palm,

599
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:35.440
a very characteristic part of it on the paper. And

600
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:40.880
people in those days weren't really aware that you could

601
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:43.559
leave a palm print and that it could be identified.

602
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.599
They knew about fingerprints, but the public really wasn't that

603
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.360
aware of palm prints. Were able to obtain palm prints

604
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.800
from Arthur Lee Allen. It was compared to the one

605
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:56.079
that had been developed earlier, and they don't match. That

606
00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:58.360
is not Arthur Allen's palm print.

607
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:02.320
I worked with several law enforcement agencies on this case

608
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:05.360
trying to bring Jack Tarns to justice.

609
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:11.199
I had fairly good cooperation with just about everyone that

610
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:11.760
I worked.

611
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.400
With, except for the San Francisco Police Department.

612
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.880
I have never quite dealt with people like them.

613
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:26.079
But it's not a It's not a good thing when

614
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:29.440
you're dealing with a murderer to be more worried about

615
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:30.599
getting the credit for something.

616
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:32.519
You need to get this man off the streets.

617
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.280
That should be number one priority.

618
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:36.599
Not who gets the credit for doing it.

619
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:53.360
Particularly, Okay, what you know what I have and the

620
00:45:53.440 --> 00:46:00.400
read I'm just curious where you're you know, we didn't.

621
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:06.280
I understand there might be some kind of like about

622
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:08.360
you wos blood or whatever.

623
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:09.360
What's what's going on?

624
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:25.840
I okay, I mean I want Jack, yeah, rids, drugs.

625
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.559
I tend to think about Elisa now no Leasa, Yeah,

626
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:33.719
Lisa's on your track?

627
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:34.599
Boy?

628
00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:36.679
Was one of what rust one more?

629
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.000
I let you set here a couple of years ago.

630
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:41.840
I'm gonna pick it up and uh, I at least

631
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:44.079
said the view over with that the game up?

632
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:44.760
What is that?

633
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:46.280
The son about the A.

634
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:49.840
Case is uh final of Jack corns and your Jack

635
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.079
wife tarts t a r already Z.

636
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.119
You know there's just for that, just for that.

637
00:46:56.360 --> 00:47:00.360
It's pretty word stuff the media when should call, uh, well,

638
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:01.719
I've been down there a couple.

639
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.199
Of time while I was actually committed. It's a long

640
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:07.719
way where you.

641
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:09.280
Go.

642
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:11.519
You know what.

643
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:15.719
Those episode.

644
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:24.920
You know, the kind of annoyed me.

645
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:28.480
You know, as I told them, initially, our laboratory was

646
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.719
committed to a thirty day turnaround, right, so.

647
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:32.440
We was you know, we would have been so.

648
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:36.639
Much further ahead than where we are now. Absolutely, but

649
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.119
you know, everyone.

650
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:41.679
Commit because of such a high profile deal, everyone wants

651
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:42.400
to hit the one.

652
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:43.119
You know.

653
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.800
It's just say Iowa was the one right fo this,

654
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.000
you know, right those was my change and none of

655
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.000
the right. You know, I don't get wrong seeing that

656
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:52.280
everybody worked.

657
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:54.440
Together tho it and everybody's you know, that's right.

658
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:57.079
You know what's from the same. You know, I think

659
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.119
you went into this every now and then with these petty.

660
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.719
I'm sure you that that the real person.

661
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.960
Right there wasn't than anything that Kelly Keller did that.

662
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:11.360
Then identify this guy, Adonia, because you had done do

663
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:21.679
homework and you got it in here right. This is

664
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:27.039
the property that Jack owned in nineteen seventy four. My

665
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.559
partner Robert Manner and I decided to revisit this place

666
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:32.800
and just have a look around and just see if

667
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.719
we noticed anything. And when we got there, the owner

668
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.239
was very cooperative. We explained to her what was going on,

669
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.320
and at that point we decided to run cadabra dogs

670
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:46.480
across the property to see if they picked up any scent.

671
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.639
In January of two thousand and eight, we ran the

672
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:53.280
cadabra dogs across the property and they did pick up scent.

673
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:56.639
We marked the locations where they picked up the scent,

674
00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:59.079
and a couple of weeks later we came out and

675
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:02.320
we dug in those and we found what appeared to

676
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:05.920
be human remains. These human remains have been turned over

677
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:07.400
to the FBI for evaluation.

678
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:15.320
Sometime around nineteen ninety, Jack asked me about this old

679
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.599
piece of equipment that I had. He made the comment

680
00:49:17.639 --> 00:49:18.880
to me that if I ever get rid of it,

681
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:21.719
that he wanted it well. At the time, I didn't

682
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:25.599
give it much thought. Several years later, in two thousand

683
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:29.039
and five, he asked me about the same piece of equipment,

684
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:30.960
and once again I didn't give it much thought at

685
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:33.760
the time. A few years later, in two thousand and eight,

686
00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:36.960
I was going through my things and I ran across.

687
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.760
This thing that he'd been asking about, this pa head.

688
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.039
I was surprised that I still had it, because we'd

689
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.079
been through a couple RECs, and it was just amazing

690
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:45.880
that I had it still.

691
00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:53.280
I decided to open it, but I had no idea

692
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:55.039
what I was about.

693
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:55.400
To see.

694
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:48.880
Into the.

695
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:09.239
Thing.

696
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:02.400
Radcom tell me about the good old days.

697
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:10.719
Sometimes it feels like this world's gone crazy.

698
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:21.079
Great take me back to esterday.

699
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:24.280
On the line.

700
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:25.719
Between riding along.

701
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:30.119
Didn't seem so he has.

702
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:40.320
Lovers really fardenough to stay stand beside each ob come

703
00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:46.639
with me, promise really stop and be bo cant not

704
00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:54.599
to something I would say. Family's really bad and heads

705
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:59.280
to pray. Daddy's really ned for gone?

706
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:02.800
Love up bad?

707
00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:35.480
Tell me about the good old day, Grandpa, everything has

708
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:36.840
changed bad.

709
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:40.000
We call the.

710
00:54:40.159 --> 00:54:50.559
Program I just don't know, and Grandpa.

711
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:55.920
Swander back into head.

712
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:59.760
Then chained me the picture.

713
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:13.079
Oh lord, lovers really fave love to stay standy start

714
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:18.239
each ob me promise really so.

715
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:24.199
He bothercount not just something they would say to them.

716
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:29.760
Call again, Sammy's really bad and heads to pray.

717
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:34.440
Daddy's really never go away?

718
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.760
Whoa broad.

719
00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:41.679
Tell me about the good old day?

720
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.119
Whoa blad.

721
00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:51.159
Tell me about the good old day?

722
00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:55.119
M h

723
00:55:59.559 --> 00:55:59.880
M hm