Cryptography, Jack and Nora Cont…

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0:52 Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac. I'd like to welcome Win del Campo to the show today. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Bob said Bob. I'm all right, well getting back to this week. We are finally going to finish off with this cryptography stuff. I had a small bit of an intro after some revelations and puzzle pieces that I was putting together with Nolan's help yesterday. So we're gonna go to the presentation because we're gonna start with this picture dead center.

1:38 Now. While it is laughable that we're staring at something like this, and I probably laughed because you laughed, but the honesty of it is, I'm rather disgusted by it. Needless to say, when Lindsay had mentioned last week that there was a picture of Bill Epstein or I'm sorry, of Bill Clinton in a dress which was a painted in the Epstein household, and it had been released in the Epstein Files. I jokingly said, it's probably Lewinsky's dress. Well, I didn't know how right I would be, but yeah, even the red shoes, like everything about it is screaming, mocking. He got away with it. He's pointing out at people with a smirky little grin on his face, relaxed in a chair. And this portrait hangs over the top of some area in Epstein's house. Either way, that led Nolan and I to have some discussions in regards to the Epstein files and on Trump and things of that nature, and we looked at some things. One of those that we looked at was the newspaper headline that stated Trump had been convicted of thirty four felonies, right.

2:52 Yeah, two or thirty four? Yeah, thirty four felonies, that's what the headline said. Now, of course I had already previous done some research on that because I wanted to see what was going on, because my Democratic friends kept telling me, are our president is a convicted pedophile and he has a convicted felon, and I thought, how would anybody ever make it into office being convicted as a felon? And Nolan, you were able to discover that in our little bit of research yesterday, which was the judge who indicated that he. Did not. Rule, he did not rule on a decision? Right? Was that what it said? He was convicted? He was convicted?

3:34 What was the judges reasted of a felony? Okay, so let me first put you didn't get any jail turn, you didn't get any ferns. There was no penalties, but he did have thirty thirty four felonies. Now, and the thirty four felonies, in my research, boiled down to business practices, not pedophilia, had nothing to do with with abusing women, financial implications, and that no other person in the state of New York had been convicted of a felony for these offenses, that they were misdemeanors. So we had to do with the Stormy Daniels affair, the payoffs and whatnot.

4:17 So covering up his dastardly start, you're cutting in and out. I don't know if Stormy Daniels or what the deal is with that person. Are you still with us? I think I lost him. No, you're still there? Can you hear me? No? Just miss what you just. You have a really bad connection. You are cutting in and out. I get every other word. I'm back. Okay. Anyways, I know nothing of the Stormy Daniel situation to pay off. What's that before?

5:07 I missed? But let's let's move forward. Okay. So what I was saying is that the business practices that he was convicted of his purported felonies, nobody else has ever been convicted of as a felony. And the judge also indicated that he was not assigning him any jail time or anything in regards to these because he knew that Trump was going to appeal these and until the appeal processes over, he is still, you know, considered I guess, innocent if you will, even if he's been convicted. I mean, if you're convinced you're convicted, deferred to the political process and that the fact that it had been it was going to be re elected, So so you probably just pardoned himself anyway.

5:50 That's a possibility. But I think that it specifically read that it said that it was likely he was going to be bringing these back up on appeal and he was going to give them them. You're under feel right now to fight the fight. Right. So this this led me to thinking, like, what what in the world happened between Trump and Epstein? Because as I was there, I was ear hustling the news your mom was watching and it was mentioning the fact that CEOs were either stepping down from their positions or being fired or what have you. So we're hearing about what the business world is doing to these people who are coming out on the list. But where's the people who are getting arrested, like Prince Andrew?

6:31 Right, no one in the United States except for just laying Yeah, and I think she differently, but that's what I call her. Yeah, that's what I do too. It seems rather fitting. But I'm not. Either way. And I'm sure she's sitting pretty somewhere. I mean, honestly, when I started to think about these facts and the separation of Trump from uh from I started looking at what was going on now. We talked about the events at mar a Lago with Epstein supposedly having stolen something. Wasn't that what we read yesterday?

7:12 Yeah? I forget what it was though. But the other thing, uh wouldn't hold. On, hold on, let me, let me finish this, this the thought process. I don't know that Jeffrey Epstein needed to steal a damn thing. He was given everything. Yeah, there's an article in today's paper about a CEO older guy that, uh, he's mentioned in a bunch of Epstein files. But he denies everything. But but then he does say he was a victim and that Epstein stole money from him. Oh okay, Now all of a sudden, they're going to separate themselves by claiming stealing, which the man didn't obviously need to do. He's starting to play victim. His association with Epstein goes way beyond business, right, and.

7:58 That's what they're sims to be the ploy here. But my point being is the man was one of the richest people in the world. He had islands, he had many, many large residences all over the United States, and didn't. He accumulated as well rather quickly too, right, but. Off the backs of other people. If he stole from anybody, it was the public. Look that whole two thousand and eight real estate scam that was all about taking from the American public, So you want to wine that he stole some money that you obviously could afford to lose or you wouldn't have given it to him in the first place, is far different than what he'd done to the American citizens who lost their homes. So that timing is really where I was trying to come in at here.

8:46 When when Trump literally discovered that he stole and kicked him out of our a lago seemed rather fitting right after the Florida da had given Epstein such a lenient sentence for the crimes that he had been committed, and in the sense that it put a band aid, I think on the situation that allowed them politically to figure out how to make that separation so that Trump could still run for presidency and not have an association factor with him. But the fact that we're not hearing Trump's name in these files at all is really disturbing to me because we clearly see that he was good friends with him up until the stealing point. Yeah, if that makes any sense.

9:26 Basically, flora Well and the games set up the game set up fifteen years in advance, so if Epstein was getting close to being taken down, they did what they did to pacify the victims by giving him some sort of sentence, even though it wasn't fair long enough for them to perpetrate whatever this plan was to cause the separation between him and him and Trump. I just after watching these games for so long, through these presentations, it just stands to reason that that was all a ploy to clear Trump for the next presidential run. Because Epstein got such a lenient sentence in Florida for the similar crimes which he was convicted of later or you know, accused of later. I think that empowered him, made him feel he was kind of above the law, and so he just he got even worse after that, after his conviction he got work for Yeah.

10:22 I think he really ultimately thought he was going to be overly protected by these people to the end, and he was definitely going to be the fall guy. These people aren't going to be the fall guy. The CEOs are the fall guy. That's why he kept evidence like Hoover, he kept dirt on every like this thinten thing, and you know, and I'm sure he has tons of stuff on Trump because he needed to blackmail them. I'm sure there's an information stash that's hidden so well somewhere on the dark reb web that it hasn't even been discovered yet, and if it has been discovered, we're never going to see it either way, at least until all these people who were involved are dead. Then all of a sudden, we're going to be dumped on like JFK and the aliens and all of these other things that, oh, let's just mass dump all of our information on them.

11:08 In the end, Maxwell knows, but she won't say anything because she's hoping for some sort of pardner, clemency or down the road she figures keeps her house shut for nowt at the intr term, maybe she'll get partner, get clemency or whatever. You know, That's what we're going to want to look for. That's what we're going to keep in mind that we don't forget in the next two years with all this other chaos that they have going on, that we watch who he pardons and what he pardons at the end, because it's going to it's going to solidify some of the statements we're making now. Anyways, unic it's that attack the capital on January sixth, So why he could pardon whoever he was?

11:49 It seems like exactly. Well, absolutely Biden did every other president has. We had Bush. We had Bush literally pardoning Henry le Lucas after admitting to over two hundred murders that he was force fed by the Texas Rangers to attempt to close hundreds of cases across the United States, which I believe are all involved in this mess of nefariousness where they're just running an agenda and they don't care who gets in the way. They're going to take them out, and they've done it on several occasions, and they create these crisis instances where we have serial killers running a muck in order to distract us. So now this whole president thing, I'm starting to worry about, you know, Trump stealing a president. And then I just found out from my assistant that we also stole six tankers of oil from Venezuela as well, oiled down it right right right.

12:46 So now, if the taxpayer's money is what it took to steal this president, to run that off, to put them in possession of this oil, then that oil should be coming back to the taxpayers. The money that they're making off of it should not be something they're independently making for their agencies. It should come back to the American citizens, and I thought that was. A very good citizens. And allegedly they say that the profits from the sale and oil are going back to the Venezuelan citizens, But we don't know, there's no we haven't seen an accounting or anything like that. And someone's making a profit off it. You know, we wouldn't have done it unless someone was going to make a profit. Right, and we wouldn't give it away. We were not been known to move into a territory on a foreign land.

13:31 You serve all of their resources and give it back to them. That's not what we're known for. No, we take it in South America, look at when they overthrew all they took it was a copper was the main resource there that they wanted, anaconda and Kennicott copper is because a day he was a socialist president like Maduro would and it was a real socialist though Maduro fake socialists, but anyway, he nationalized the copper industry, and the CIA and the United States business interests said no, we're gonna kill you, and they put peto'shet in and then they had like a raign of terror, just like world fear in France. Yeah, okay, terrible history too. So only you is one of the people behind that master plan.

14:26 Of course, it's just another mob moved. Yes, yes, yes, I'm glad you say that name, because we just keep going full circle with who's in charge, who's running things, and who's making money off of things, and it certainly isn't us. We're just getting screwed. I mean to the gas tank or to the gas station yesterday and we're back up to four fifty five four dollars and fifty five cents a gallon because the holidays are now subsiding. We just got over Valentine's Day and now we see the gas hike up. It's like they play this game of who's gonna make money during what period of the year, and it's cyclical and it just keeps on. How but I thought, if we just stole six tankers of oil and we took over Venezuelans oil, why are why are our gas prices rising?

15:07 Yeah? Why don't we benefit from that? Yeah? The individual And I just thought, I'm a little that the le exer I showed you from that book on the Mamas and Papas about uh uh c I a mind control and use of psychedelic drugs. Uh. And Marie Pinchot Meyer is quoted, as you know, as telling Timothy Leary that, hey, dude, the people that are really in power, not not the elected politicians, but the people are really friend shit. They want to use this ship for for warfare, for mind control and behavior control, and she was onto it. That's why they killed her.

15:49 Yes, that's literally what it is. Literally what just what Nolan just said. Yeah, I completely believe that. I don't necessarily want to say everybody in government is bad, because that's not true. That would be like saying every you know, every person in a particular race or culture was bad. It's just simply not true. We just have bad people amongst the group, and we have people who are willing to profit off the backs of others, which means killing people, hurting people, demising people, doing anything and everything that they can to maintain what power they have and to usurp as many resources from us as they possibly can. I feel like we are the great project of division and see how much we can divide American citizens but continue to suppress and oppress them through the means that they are doing, which means we can never get ahead. We can't even oftentimes make a paycheck that is complementary to the price of living. At the time, most of us are living well below that means even on a standard like what is that like for your I haven't made an hourly wage and forever, but what do they call that?

16:57 When the minimum wage? So whenever the minimum wage is enacted, it's still well below the line of you know, living. They raise them in room wage. People raise prices exactly even though your wages get raised, your buying power gets lessened because they, like like you said, with the gas and with food and just everything else, everything just goes up and up and up. Our next one that our next we'll see the gas market go down now because we're going to be stepping into easter and we're going to watch the price of eggs sore through the roof. We may even have decimation of an entire you know, ranch of chickens, which always seems to happen about this time too, which also causes inflation.

17:42 Makes me wonder if that wasn't a set game. Let's you know, kill off the entire stock, and then what we have left we can charge five times the amount people are still going to buy them because it's Easter whatever. Yeah, all right, yeah yeah, So back to back to the cryptography. The last couple pieces that I had on cryptography was basic substitution again up here, only this one looks a little bit more complicated as far as the substitution process, and I wasn't really able to make out what this was supposed to say, because it just doesn't really make any sense what it codes out to and then what you're supposed to be able to derive from that information.

18:24 But what was more interesting was down here on the right hand side, we look again at these are the frequencies of common short words, letters of the alphabet and let's see and words that I'm sorry, yeah, words and letters. So basically E being the most used letter in the English language means that it's used more and if it's a simple substitution, if you have one symbol that repeats itself more than any other symbol, it is typically an E. And then on down the line with TV in ninety two, ob and seventy nine. And then when you get over into the words, it actually breaks down how many times these words would be used in a message, and that the top use of word would be the word of.

19:10 So if you had two symbols that continued to repeat themselves more than any other symbols in there, then you would be looking at the word of. And again this isn't a simple substitution. This is not one of these more complicated ones that we see that the Zodiac did, which really just instills more so that whoever he was sending these messages to had a key. Bottom line, Yeah, do you have to have a key? Basically, yeah, I mean there's systems and methodologies and whatnot that can assist you, but you really need to have at least one solid key clue and go from there. And then well then you're not going to decipher it. You're not. There's no way. And when I look at the systems that were used with John Walsh, we were talking at least five or different five or six different systems that was used within that least Based on this book that was produced out of shou Cogollinoise for this document Examiner, so we can see the use of the booze balls. Booz Alan Hayes was a war defence company that used these to show the completion of contracts wasn't available to the public yet, but somehow the Zodiac was aware of it. Zodiac was aware of Dick Tracy comics that were being produced out of Chicago, Illinoise before they were actually produced for the public. So that showing that inside information and knowledge that you could only get if you were up in this echelon.

20:29 Not down here in the Dick Tracy karma back in the day that we have named Jodier. Oh well, and we did that come before or after Zodiac, like the fifties? Really yeah, huh, well, then if he took that name or and maybe that comics I like to say that they like to pair it whatever it is they're actually doing to us and shoving it in our face and in subtle ways that we don't seem to pay up on that. That was yeah, that was just now a phenomenon that was going to be taken on by one of these crimes frees. So I wouldn't be surprised that there weren't other comics that were out there mimicking things like the Oakland County child murders or the Atlanta, Georgia child murders, or you know many of these other the the Los Angeles stuff with black doahl Ya, I wouldn't be surprised.

21:20 The media and these mass murder or these murders and serial killers. Lava goes hand in hand, Like if you look at the movie Bullet with Steve McQueen, or you look at the Dirty Hair Harry movies with a lot of times there's the Bay Area assassin that they're chasing, right right. Y'all need to watch Snake. Yes, I think I told you guys a while while back with Nicholas Cage, but you you gotta watch it because you're you're gonna see so many similarities in the Charlie Kirk case, like like mirrors and parallel else it's insane. Like I've watched Somebody on the other the other day. They were going back over like the movie pointed things out, and it's like he pointed things out that I didn't even notice. So it's like now I want to watch it again because I want to.

22:13 See what you get. Yeah, it's like every time, you know, we ever, every time you watch a movie or something, you're always going to see something else different. It's just like you're reading a book, but but yeah it's that movie. Oh my god, you're gonna you'll freak out. I'm telling you in saying what they do, this. Is what this would be. How then, I've always surmised that they give us little bits of information of upcoming things, such as Star Trek talking to each other through a TV, just like we're sitting here right now on zoom and we can see each other and we're having conversations. They were feeding us us back in the seventies and eighties, right, And so I tried to express how this was their way of showing us what was coming and to sensitizing us to us, but we don't know that it actually existed at that very moment. And one of my girlfriends tried to tell me, well, maybe it's the movie that preempted them to design and make this. No, No, that is absolutely false. I mean I look at Suspect Zero, which is my movie for the Zodiac. I believe that this pretty much fits the bill for what we're looking at.

23:17 And they're basically putting it right in our face because they're the ones that created these programs. They're the ones that created this technology, so they are feeding it to us. They are the ones responsible for it, and they're going to give it to us through entertainment and through the news and in little ways so that when it hits us, it's not lam right upside the head. This just showed up. No, they've been waiting on it for many years. They've been using it for many years before we get it. Yeah, all right, Back to Jack and Nora. I've been dying to get here because we are just now leading nineteen ninety six, we're climbing into This is December thirty first and January first in Nora's diary, and she indicates that they watched movies till midnight at Chuck and Genevas, which I thought was interesting because Chuck and Geneva, if I'm correct, are back in Texas. Went outside and listened. Okay, so maybe Chuck and Geneva is not in Texas, maybe they are in California. At this point, I feel like we're going to see them hanging out with them again when they're back in Texas. So I'm not sure how that that plays out. But Dora comes down.

24:23 They listened to all the noise though, it's like people shooting guns and firecrackers went off for the New Year. Is that what it's a reference to? Probably? No, she said, went outside, Yeah, went outside and listened to Yeah Jack. Jack didn't even wish me a happy New Year. No hug, no kiss, no nothing, New Year's Day. Joy cooked a ham. And so she comes down sick with something. She gets the flu. Then she has some eye issues from it, probably contracted whatever virus she had in her eye it swells up. Jack is currently sick. At this point, they had already planned on heading back home. But now we're seeing her diary say January tenth, January eleventh.

25:04 It's moving on in until January seventh, when she says rain or shine. But take note that up here we see December sixteenth turned to January sixteenth. We see January seventeenth turned from December seventeenth. So we're seeing some oddities in her date sequence. And I bring this up because when we get to when they're back in Texas, it conflicts with the actual phone records showing that they were already back in Texas two days before. So it makes me seriously concerned about the dating sequences and why they had been changed. She was consistent January January January. Then why would you go hop back in now December sixteenth. It just didn't make any sense. It was almost like she plotted out.

25:47 What's that January seventeenth or January. Seventh, January seventeenth, and it says rain or shine. Jack was determined we are leaving this day. Me still not feeling good, so scored into the next one. He's still not feeling well and my I only getting relief when it's closed. Did not want to leave, And just two days ago I find out Charles is not going with us. So she says, I was numb. She didn't care if she lived or died, like this is this is some pretty desperate words for somebody, and I get it. Charles is eighteen. I don't believe that this is the first time he's ever been away from his mother by any means.

26:29 But he stayed back so that he could get his GED taken care of, and Nora's very upset that they're moving on to Texas without them. Did he enjoin the military after he got the GED? Is that what he the path that was on? No? No, not Charles, Charles his son. And yeah, the other dentist, Yeah, yeah, the other dentist was military. So there are several dates that are also changed on this one. So did she prefill all of these dates out and then come back or was she legitimately making mistakes at the time she was attempting to write the entries, which is a little hard to tell. January eighteenth, per phone records, the calls are made back to California from their home phone numbers, so presumably they've made it home by January eighteenth.

27:16 But we're showing that there's still in Arizona on January nineteenth, So how is this possible? Right? So it's where there's looks like a manipulation of the dates. Something, something is going on here. And Bennette, did you notice if it was it was actually her writing over on top of the old date. It does appear though, that some of it is I haven't studied her handwriting like I've studied Jack's. It's probably something I should do to make sure that Jack hadn't gone back and changed it some of these things. Yeah, some of these dates may have benefited him to have been changed, But what if he just simply said you need to change those dates. I feel like Dennis had mentioned at one point in time that Nora knew who Jack was, and that or a fear for life that she was going to be killed by Jack, and if she did truly know who and what Jack was, it wouldn't be so hard for him to tell her to you need to change those dates, you know. Yeah, eh him the other Dennis, Oh yeah, oh yeah, Dennis was definitely scared of him. So on the January twenty nineteen ninety seven to January twenty ninth, nineteen ninety seven, in her diary, this is where I bring up the phone bill.

28:31 In this phone bill, it shows January twenty third, nineteen ninety seven, Jack is receiving cell phone bills from Southwestern Felt in the name of John W. Terrrence Junior. So this is one of the first introductions I see of the name John. So now he's using a different name to obtain cell phone bills. Yeah, and also is actual Jack is a nickname for. John Okay, but his name is J. W. Terrence Right. Yes, he adopted Jack. I believe his father went by John right and they were both So J W. Terrence Junior is a junior because his dad was J. W. Terrence, And then if they opted for a name other than j W, it would have been John or Jack. Like we're seeing. I'm just saying at this point. This is the first time we're seeing the use of John, so again an identity change, as he's in another state, back in Texas. Now he's listed as John Terrence, and in fact, this bill was actually listed under Terrence t E r R A NCEE, which was one of the aliases that was used in one of his convictions back here in California.

29:38 So he's over here, but we do see him actively trying to get them to change it from the t r R to the t r R. So it could have been a clerical mistake on the phone company's part. Either way, he's still using John, which is a totally different name. I don't care if they're swallowable. These are legal documents being now in an account with the cell phone company. You should be using your legal name. Back to the movies in the Shining, the guys they are Jack Nichols's name is Jack Torrence exactly. That's so I've always thought that. It almost makes me feel like they did in fact know who Jack was back then, and that's why they were making out these serial killers that just were so similar, like Dirty Harry.

30:22 I really think, I really think they did really well. Hold on, can't talk over us, nobody's gonna hear just like the Dirty Harry movies where they're floating around after a serial killer in San Francisco. Right, it's just so close to home. I'm sorry, go ahead, Oh, I was just saying, I really, I really agree with that, Like I really think they knew who he was and still are hiding it now. Yeah, it's going to be just like the Alien Files. It's going to be just like the JFK Files. Once people are gone, then they're going to be able to release it. Ninety seven says December, and then so again we're still seeing all the way into January twenty second.

31:03 She now has a full on habit of writing January and we're still seeing December pop up, which is very leary. Yeah, and it says that Jack is getting sick, but he was just sick on New Year's Eve, So now you're telling me on January twenty sixth he's getting sick again. I mean, I don't know that he's cleared up from whatever he had New Year's Eve, which is why they hadn't left California. She says. She visits Charles Flova, Jack's mom with to the er for breathing issues and is confused, looking very bad per Nora, and Mary's husband has some medical issues, which is Nora's daughter. So Nora's head's spinning right now. Charles has left himself in California. She's coming back to a place she absolutely hates, she despises Flova.

31:45 Jack's getting sick. All of these things are going on all at one time. February first to February seventeenth, we see that Flova, Nora says, Flova looks like she's dying and not getting any better. And then two seven and I'm not sure because it says February. Let's see two seven. It starts to say what looks like February seventh, and then it's changed to February seventeenth, and that's a big jump from the sixth. The seventeenth might also indicate that she does pre fill out a date before she writes, once again in anticipation of writing, and may just not get to it until she does, and then she changes the date when she does, so I can play Devil's av gate there on both sides.

32:27 I think that the writing on the right side looks like it was all done at the same time. Ye, Well, this green obviously is after the fact, that right, right, So she starts out with this blue pen Mary called, and then goes into this green, and then goes into this blue, but then comes back and uses green to rewrite over the top of these blues so that this feels like an entire insertion here this green, because she touched up the words on the entry after it that was done in blue ink with that same green. Ben. I'm really confused. This is not how a diary should work. So it says Jack is getting sick again after antibiotics and he has bronchitis in January, or at least that's what they think it is at that point. By February eighteenth to February twenty first, Jack is really not doing well, and it says doctor took one look at him and put him in the er room, running test to see what's wrong. Admitted to him to ICU congestive heart failure.

33:32 Jack thought he would come home on Friday, so obviously he didn't even understand the severity of what it was that he was going through. And the reason why I agree with you know what, And that brings me back to one of the witnesses in the John Benay Ramsey stuff in December, making a claim that one of the people he witnessed getting on the Greyhound bus appeared to have congestive heart failure, and he recognized that by the barrel chested, fat belly type, you know, body structure that usually accompanies heart congestin heart failure. I know my dad had it, so I had to understand what he says about barrel chested, and barrel chested was a description that was used in the Zodiac killings as early as nineteen sixty nine. So we're seeing this run its gamut. And again for this very reason, I can't exclude Jack because he did, in fact have conjective heart failure.

34:26 Well, and then you have those records of him call in those Colorado numbers. So during the month that he's gone from the family, when when he supposedly had an alibi for being in California with the family for the holidays, you're right on it says that he now is being They shipped Jack to Community Hospital in San Antonio. He didn't come home. Doctors couldn't figure out why his blood pressure keeps drawing dropping, or I'm sorry, he couldn't figure out why his pulse is too high and then drops too low. Dolores and Chuck and I followed the ambulance down to San Antonio. He is in the National Regional Heart Institute, so he's sent off to one of the finest places I'm sure for heart surgery, because I believe at this point is where he's going to get his pacemaker. Flovis still isn't doing well and is still very confused, and now Nora is having to travel to San Antonio to visit Jack.

35:26 But he is actually in good spirits when he sees Charles, which I think is kind of interesting. So Nora says, on February twenty third, it's a beautiful day. I feel great. Charles is home. Jack's mom is stable but very confused. Rick is doing better than expected, although the side effects are atrocious what he is going through. I'm not going to share that medical if that person's still alive, it's not my job to share his medical stuff. But she was very concerned for his mortality at this particular point in time. So Jack, I feel like, doesn't really have any love for Nora. I mean that whole notion that Dennis stated that Nora or that Jack pulled him aside and took him into a room and told him, you know, I don't want to be here any more than you want me to be here, but this is how it's going to be, and we're going to learn how to get along basically. Well, it kind of coincides with the way Nora is feeling in some of these entries in her diary, so I wanted to read this one just because it made me sad for her. It said that Jack was happy to see Charles. It wasn't long we were there and he started in on me, spent too much money while he has been in the hospital. I don't handle things. I am not to have his wallet at any time. Don't do this, don't and do this, giving instructions to Charles how to take care of things.

36:53 Now Charles is eighteen years old and he's in a hospital with Jack, who's suffering from congestive heart failure. Ordering his son to make sure his own mother doesn't handle affairs. What a showing us to thing to do? Yeah, at all at all? So instructions to. Charles, how like you said, chauvinesstic attitude that he never respected women to begin with. He never, not, not once unless it was his mom. His mom could do no wrong. And I think that's what really set Nora on fire, because he oftentimes was taking his mother's side, so giving instructions to Charles how to take care of things. I was beside myself how he was acting and his and his Oh gosh, something.

37:47 I got angry and upset. After call after called, been after all, I've been through, the worry, the toll, all the pressure has taken on me. I walked out of the room and went to the car, cried all I could cry. I felt like running and disappearing somewhere, taking Charles, and never coming back. That's some pretty heavy statements. Yeah, and I get it that these times are stressful, but I mean she literally she's talked about suicide. Now, she's talked about leaving and taking Charles with her. Anything, I guess to hurt Jack, and maybe as much as Jack has probably hurt her. I don't know.

38:30 Have you talked to Charles. I did, and at one point in time he agreed that he would come on, and I've reached out to him, not recently, but a couple of years ago. When he first found out I was doing this, and he was excited that I was doing this. He was on board. He had a friend that was watching the podcast and he said he would come on. So I wanted to talk with him about some of the things like the pre cut wrote that Jack used to keep in his trunk, you know, some of the things that he would notice that was odd about what an average parent would or wouldn't do. And I just never got that opportunity. Maybe we should jus knives too. I'm sorry, I got yours, Lindsay, what did you say, Nolan?

39:12 He always said guns and knives? Who Jack? Oh? Yeah, and you can see them, I mean carry him right on his hip, because in Texas you can do so. So here February twenty four to February twenty six, it says Jack's pacemaker gets reprogrammed, So I'm assuming at some point, though I didn't see it in the notes when he actually got that pacemaker, but it is now being reprogrammed because I think that's where they figured out his blood pressure was dropped, going too high and dropping too low and things like that. Jack gets to come home on February twenty seventh from nineteen ninety seven, so we see that it's taking him almost a month in the hospital from the time he got home to get cleared and out.

39:55 Oh to see at this point, do you. Know in ninety seven he is born in twenty three if I have that right, twenty three, No, that's not right. Twenty eight he's born in twenty eight. That would have made him forty one in sixty nine. And so this is almost almost seventy at this point, sixty eight sixty nine, which is why I think that he's nothing more than the letter writer at this point. I do think he had a heyday of killing people. I don't discount that at all, but I. Think sixty nine is pretty young to me. Well, it can be good health bad nowadays, but in nineties that wasn't you know, that was kind of average for men were in their seventies when you know they were knocking off women a little later in the seventies early eighties. I think there was they say something like an eight year statistical difference between a women and women and men in you know, mortality rates at those ages.

40:56 So February twenty seventh or nineteen ninety seven, Jack Lambs in the hospital with cojestin me or I don't know, Well, I was having a little bit of issue earlier, but I'm okay, so it might just be yours, Lindsay. I failed to remove that entire entry of February twenty seventh, but by March nineteenth, nineteen ninety seven, Jack is being sent information he requested back to normal. It seems for him this is some type of lower back pain relief company as far as I can tell, and we know that Jack walked with the lumber. He had a discogram done before back injuries and a subsequent surgery, so here he is looking into some information in regards to what's called the TELEBAC, and as much as I could find on that it's for those who suffer from back pain.

41:45 TELEBAC offers a real opportunity to get rid of this limiting and annoying problem from your home. I can't believe that. This just disgusts me that they sell this stuff as if this is a fix all for these individuals who are pain And all you're. Doing is worked for a neurosurgeon for ten years doing back surgeries and I've never heard of that. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like you've seen all the literature that I've put up here. From Jack's files, like you know this, get on this bad wagon and make this money. Try this new thing and make this money, try this new thing, like he was a get me on for some of these things. He just really it's no different than the average American who wants relief from their back. They're willing to pay for things they think might help because these people out here lying saying it will, there's no proven. If there was proven relief from this, everybody would have it. It's like I tell my dad when he got an email and it said he'd won publisher's clearinghouse or he'd won something, or if you do this, you make this money, I said, Dad, if it were real, everybody would do it. Yeah, but it's not real. They're going to be around long enough to take your money from you and maybe a couple other million people, and then once they figure they've tapped that pond, they're going to skate onto something else and bring up a whole new program where they can make money in a different way, under a different name, with a different phone number. It's just what we're and why can't they stop this? Why do they stop the people who are lying about these

43:16 things and feeding this nonsense to us and using and taking our money because all we really want is relief. All the time, I got emails that I'm afraid to open because you just drawn in and you know it's if it sells to good to be true. It is is one percent, and sometimes you take it as a serious. So phishing is where they basically look to perpetrate themselves out to be a trusted company, and their whole goal is to to obtain your personal information so they can commit identity theft against you. You've got malware that comes in, and we've seen the malware. I'm now finally understanding all these different fraud methods through the computer system, which isn't my forte. I don't usually deal with it or technology a limited technology should I say in forensic examination. But the malware that comes into destroy so they purposely embed this malward to come in and destroy your computer when you're researching something like we are.

44:15 And I've seen it happen to several of my computers. Harriet's had it happen to her computers on down the line. You click on some of these links and it'll tell you straight up there's a virus. I think they even embedded one in my message board, so people don't go to my message board because they get scared. Once they go to the link, they and they try to process that link, they get a warning from Google saying that there's a virus attached. Don't do it. And I'm thinking, what the heck, I don't have any viruses attached. Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah, I don't have anything embedded. So either this is just something that they're doing as a ploy against me, which they tells me they have big capabilities to be able to do that, or somebody has embedded somehow someway, maybe an attached document or something that they thought they were acting like they were helping me out with research and attached something that had embedded malware it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever it might be.

45:10 Whoever they are, they have big ears and big eyes, and they're yet. And broad reach. Big ears, big eyes, broad reach. So I also, at this particular point in time nineteen ninety seven, found Jack's phone book for the people that he knew of, and I circled many of these things with you know, I want to look up these numbers and see who these people are. I know, Lindsey, that you have that capability. But I've put these ones up here just so we could talk about some of the locations that Jack has friends in. So, of course we've got Chubb Indeloris Barnett, and we've talked about how Jack has used Barnett in the past for a name for a bell Donnie and John Barnett. So this is obviously his mother's maiden side.

45:56 So the Barnett's is Flova Barnett before she be Na flove Terance, Jim Bond Saging Texas. We've got this was interesting. Frank bone Break. I don't know if that's a real last name. Bone Break. Yeah, that's out of the Sacramento area. We've got Brinkerhoff in Flagstuff Arizona. We've got Hollywood, California, as Vermont, Texas. Let's see pawnshops, Shady Cove, Oregon. C O. Yes, friends and family in Oregon. We talked about this. He stayed a bit in Oregon. I'm not sure who with, but that leads us back to the dB Cooper thing.

46:42 He claims to have, you know, been living in the Oregon area. New Brensfelt, Texas, flag Staff, Arizona, Lockhart, Texas, and Antonio. That's a doctor's office. I believe, yeah, cardiac. Let's see there were some more surprising ones. Bass Drop in Nashville, Arkansas. We have Arkansas in the mix. Now Arizona, Michigan. So Denny and Sharon Gilbert. Now it appears as though Denny, his biological son in nineteen ninety seven, is living in Michigan. Now you got to remember though that Denny and oh no, I'm sorry. It was Nora's kid's father who lived in Michigan. So he really has two sources in Michigan aside from his own son. Nora's married family was also living in Michigan.

47:29 I looked up the Lexington, Michigan to see approximately how far it was from the Royal oak and the Oakland County Childbirgers, and I found that it was an hour and thirty minutes away. Wow, two blows more. Flag Staff. Let's see Dale, Texas, Dallas, Texas, Longview Port here on Michigan. So now here's the Kaufman family. This is Noura's original because Dennis's last name is off Men. So I don't know if this is an aunt and uncle, a grandmother, grandfather, maybe even the father of the gay Is it Coffman with a K. Yeah, Okay, yeah Coffin with the K so port. I also google port here on Michigan as it pertains to the Royal Oak area, and I found it was only an hour and seven minutes away. So when they moved to Cotton, Minnesota, it was a twelve hour trip from Cottons, Minnesota to the Michigan area. Which we know that there were visitations that took place because Dennis talked about them, and now we can see exactly how far the happenstances of what occurred with the Oakland County child murders were from where the proximity of family members or places that they could He could probably drop the kids off and disappear like he likes to do.

48:49 Yeah, I'm curious to see the ancestry on him, but I've tried to look it up before. But he has some like like like you just say it, like he changed, he puts the different names in there. He has a he has an he has a noal for a name because he's J. W. Terrence. You're not really going to find anything because it doesn't lead you to search parameters that are required to populate something. I think that's the noal that Terry Be was talking about. So if you ran, uh lead the self, you're not going to find anything because self is not recognized. It's just not enough information to make an identification. And either with. Jaw, thinking was maybe I should look up Nora if In because if they're if they are were actually married legally, then they're then I can find stuff.

49:41 So they and then they were divorced. Then yet. That marriage wasn't valid because he hadn't divorced from Doris yet, so then they had to get remarried. Then they got divorced when he tried to harm the family when he went berserk and tried to kill everybody with a hammer, a knife or whatever during the eighties, And then they got remarried. I guess at some point, because we're married there. In the end, and there should be documents of that. It will lead me to a trail. Right. But see, I've also got Florida, I've got Arizona. I've got all kinds of different locations, which puts Jack in all these areas that I have talked about throughout the presentation. But we are at the end of our time. We'll finish off the phone book and maybe I can get some of this information to you, Lindsay, to your research.

50:28 I want to thank you both for being here today. Everybody, have a wonderful weekend and we will see you next Friday. Nice at We'll see you all soon And family