May 15, 2026

Who is Tom Voight??? Part 2

Who is Tom Voight??? Part 2
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How exactly does any one person end up owning the rights to images, news reels, pictures, audio, and a money-making website in an unsolved multiple homicide case? All inquiries about the Zodiac Killer from media or news is deferred to him as well even though many of his suspects are false. He is a consultant for Hollyweird, and purported know it all. Let’s see what is or isn’t as it is portrayed on his website circa 1998-2003 before it is completely stripped, erased, and shut down from AOL.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True Crime Seekers, and oh my goodness, I

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just lost my mind.

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It's been a horrible week, you guys.

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Welcome back to an episode of Hit the Road, Jack

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Finding the Zodiac. We were last week talking about the

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website for tom BOYD and we are going to be

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climbing back into that shortly. But first I'd like to

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welcome to the show Nolan del Campo, Good earning.

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Everybody, and Lindsey good morning. Good morning. I literally just

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lost my train of thought after that rant.

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All right, So if I like just totally start laughing postal,

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at least you know why.

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I actually got a YouTube, very very good reason.

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Yes, Like, my brain is just so scattered, it's in

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too many places at once, and I haven't had a

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lot of good sleep, so I'm hoping that will all

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come to an end here. Shortly, I did get a

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YouTube comment from Ed Edward Cyphers. I know that he

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has his own obviously, Ed Edwards is his suspect, which

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again been found that the handwriting examination by Mike Walsall

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was no good because he actually compared that he had

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writing to the minister that married Ed Edwards to.

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His wife instead of Ed Edwards and then wrote a book.

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I think, I mean like.

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He actually osizes that he has discovered as a document

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examiner who the Zodiac Killer is.

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I love this stuff, can't make it up anyways.

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Ed Edwards' comments on last week's show as we're you know,

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digging into tom Boydton what he had nineteen ninety eight

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versus what he has now, And of course I'm not

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doing that juxtapposing of what he has now, just because

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I have no intentions of going to his site. A

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lot of people have complained that they end up with

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viruses and nobody wants their computer shut down just because

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they're trying to research this case.

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But that might also.

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Indicate that there's another that he obviously is in some

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type of play that is decimating people's computers so they

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can't figure it out on top of promoting bound suspects

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either way, and Edwards says, I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this episode.

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Yeah, the old tom Boke stuff is not up anymore.

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Right, No, no, it's it's been taken down.

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Over though it is the old tom Boke stuff to

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see his former position. Now, now, how are you able

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to access it?

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Way Back Machine?

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So I know this, and actually the last time I

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went directly to way back it looks like that might

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even have been pulled down as well.

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Loudsey, have you had any experience with it? Yeah, I couldn't.

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I couldn't find it either. I mean I didn't. I

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should have went on.

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Uh there's another archive that I was. I meant to

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go on, but I didn't get a chance to.

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Is that what?

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The wayback Machine also the time machine he wrote the novel.

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Way Back They do that, don't they.

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Wayback Machine is a program that crawls the Internet and

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basically geo maps URLs and pages and information on those

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pages and saves them in an archive so you can

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if you have the RL, you can typically go to

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the RL and all of the URLs I went to

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this time around, they did take me to way Back,

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but I really couldn't maneuver through the wayback system to

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do anything different. And the last time I went to

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way Back, it was telling me that it wasn't even

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available anymore. So everything I collected I collected some years

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ago before they took it down. So I have lots

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and lots. I mean I probably added about sixty sixty

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slides of stuff off of Tom Boyd's website. So that's

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where we're at today. I'm glad we ciphers that you

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liked this show.

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Like I told him in my response on.

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YouTube, I was like, oh, it's still coming. We just

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barely started. So we left off last time at this

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wonderful letter from Robert Greysmith to Tom Boyd, and we're

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now we're going to climb into some of the things

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that he's saying about the actual letters themselves. Some of

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it is just to repeat about the zodiac stuff, and

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some of it actually injuredduce some new information that I

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didn't know at the time. But who knows what his

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position is these days. I'm sure he's quickly trying to

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change all of that too. The bottom line is that

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the letters that used to be on this website were

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black and white versions. I want to say that somewhere

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around two thousand and three to two thousand and five

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he updated them to color scans.

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Again, how does somebody.

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That's, you know, a member of the public, I don't

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care how much you know or how we tend to

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research something. Are you given access to these color scans?

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Then he manipulates them and he widens the pixel with

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by a thousand by a thousand in order to create

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an eight and a half by eight and a half

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by eleven out of an actual five x seven communication.

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Now I think he was part of a bigger picture.

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Oh yes, just outlet. Oh he puts out what he's

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told to put out and what he's allowed to put out.

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There's a possibility, yes, And I have lots of emails

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that were supposedly back and forth between him.

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I don't know if it was him or somebody pretending to.

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Be him, but by the time I was getting sick

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of the person's nonsense, he was literally offering to show

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me as junk and talking a sexual crap.

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Yeah, yeah, like are you asking kidding me?

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And I have all these emails still too, So I

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wanted I'm gonna step back because I forgot to mention,

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why not end the hunt with Arthur Lee Allen.

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So we just discussed last.

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Week that Arthur Lee Allen named a star in Robert

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Graysmith's book. So they've accused him continually all the way

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into two thousand and seven with the Jake Gillenhall movie.

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Arthur Lee Allen is still the number one suspect. Last

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week we discussed that he died with that letter in

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his hand saying I Am not the zodiac, right. I

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squashed one thing with that. If it was a zodiac,

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he'd have bragged about it, right. We talked about that

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last week.

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Yeah, between the book and the movie, I'm glad the

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movie doesn't go into this killer starbullshit like the book does.

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And is why would you even write the book that way?

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I'm thinking because he could have been sued because he's wrong.

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You know it's perfectly ellen. Why are you going to

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call him a suitable because.

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He could be sued because he knows it wasn't him.

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The only way you can tell the truth is if

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it's the truth, right, If he didn't write it this fiction,

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they can't get a pseudonym, then there's a possibility he

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could have been sued for continuing to press this issue, right,

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I mean, you're the attorney defamation slambert slander.

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Like, what what is.

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The amount that the family could sue for if they

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outright named him?

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No answer? All right, So let's let's move to number two.

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Because this dawned on me last week after we got

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done with our show.

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Is that I'm what's that? What's that.

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You're You're always he's buffering or something. Anyway, I can't

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hear you.

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Something's going on with your audio at any rate. I'm

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going to put notion number two to us.

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Everybody wants to say that Arthur Lee Allen was part

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of this group. Wouldn't this been the easiest way on

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his deathbed to crush any more investigation had he not

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just bribed and said I was the Zodiac, if he

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was part of this group, he just saved this whole group, right,

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it would it would have squashed the investigation any further.

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They could have named it on, blamed it on Arthur

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Lee Allen and it would have been done. It would

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have been over. Nobody would be climbing into anything. SFPD

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would have shut the entire thing down. But there's more

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money to be made in the in the conspiracy theory

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or in the mystery of it for hollyweird, and if

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it is perpetrated by these same syndicates, let's say politicians

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mob all of these other people. The benefit was to

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make money to begin with. In my mind, I mean,

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we've got people rioting on the streets of San Francisco

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and Berkeley because of the Vietnam War that's going on.

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So let's perpetrate a serial killer tread and still fear,

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get people to go inside, stop rioting, stop you know,

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protesting against this war. And then it makes a lot

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of money for the newspapers, which that was the mainstream

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way to get information out back then, and you could

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sell millions of newspapers off of these hot topics.

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At the same time, down in La you had the

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Manson people running around, right.

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Well, weren't they a little earlier?

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And we're sixty nine. The murders were August sixty nine.

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They left San Francisco in sixty seven, so from like

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sixty eight or on they were in La.

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So it's just a hot mess of cold type behavior

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going on here.

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In cal Manson had people that were kind of pulling

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his strings too.

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Oh yeah, oh yeah, and I think we're seeing that

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in the David Berkowitz stuff with some of Sam as well.

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I don't evolve in a larger.

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Right right.

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Oh that's a good word, cabal. The only time I

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ever heard that word was on Blacklist. And again, like

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I said, they're more most notorious, criminal, most wanted around

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the world, criminal is Jewish.

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I'm like, what the shrak right now?

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They need to stop pram down. I saw a video.

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I saw a video that you know, these conspiracy theorists

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scream that The Simpsons is predicting future happenstances like the

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outbreak with China and and all these different you know,

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things that are politically driven that are happening to the

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average citizen around the world, and instead, why don't they

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think about it?

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Is a desensitization, so you.

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Get a little bit of it through the media. Whatever

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they're portraying. They want don't want you to be shocked

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when it actually happens and be a disbelief. They want

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you to be like, oh, you know, I saw that

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somewhere before.

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And normalize you to it.

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So yeah, all right, So the letter, the first letter

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starts out here is says A week later, he sent

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another post called Postcard to Paul Avery, again misspelled as Averley,

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out the Chronicle. This one was decorated with a sketch

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of a condominium complex that had been under development at

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Incline Village, Nevada, near Lake Tahoe by the Boise Cascade

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Corporation doing businesses Boise Interlake between nineteen sixty seven and

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nineteen seventy. The same picture had appeared in the Chronicle

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three days earlier for an advertisement for the complex known

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as Forest Pines.

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Now, the research that I did.

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Into this, the Sierra Club is, I guess, another one

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of those secret organizations or you know, high follutant membership

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societies where not many people get in.

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And so there was some affiliation.

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And I don't really remember everything that Harriet had talked

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about in regards to it, but that while it's called

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Forest Pines, it was the Sierra Club card and has

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been known as the Sierra Cub Club Card for quite

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some time. And I did do a little bit of

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research on it and try to track some of that back,

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and we've talked about that when we actually looked at

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00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.039
that letter. So he goes on to say they would

228
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.120
not be consolidated into Riverside Press Enterprise until nineteen eighty three.

229
00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.159
The Riverside Enterprise and the Riverside Press had been under

230
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:15.279
joint ownership since nineteen thirty two. The Enterprise was a

231
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:19.080
morning paper that circulated in rosevilt Or Riverside County, outside

232
00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.840
city limits, while the Press was an afternoon local that

233
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.159
served the city. That the killer gave the full name

234
00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.960
and the complete address only on the second envelope suggests

235
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.919
that he was copying it from the publishing information inside

236
00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.879
the paper. If any conjecture can be gleaned from this,

237
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.600
it is that the killer was passing through Riverside when

238
00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.399
Bates was killed, and so is more familiar with the

239
00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:45.279
county paper than the city edition. So traveling through. They're

240
00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:49.159
now saying they don't believe it with somebody who lived there,

241
00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.840
like a boyfriend or you know, all the normal suspects.

242
00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.000
But it was interesting that that said that.

243
00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.159
Yeah, was Dewler at the time, but he didn't do it.

244
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:02.279
But they have been a cars.

245
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:04.600
Well, and I'm not gonna say he didn't fly Jack

246
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:06.759
down there. I don't know how Jack got around to

247
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:08.639
many of his places. I know he would go on

248
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.840
meth runs, and he would drive for hours at a time,

249
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.360
so I'm not putting it past him having it driven.

250
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.440
But the fact that Dennis recalls him saying that's when

251
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.080
Arthur Lee Allen is being portrayed as the suspect on

252
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.200
the news, and Jack says that this guy was the

253
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.679
nice gentleman who gave him a ride home from Lake Barriessa,

254
00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.960
and Jack was purportedly taking flying lessons at the same time.

255
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.039
And this is all right before.

256
00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:34.799
The D. D.

257
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:36.679
Cooper stuff, So the.

258
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.399
Planes and the things that are coming into play here

259
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.039
is kind of meshing together.

260
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:42.960
But it doesn't mean that Arthur Lee.

261
00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.279
Allen was fully aware of what this group was doing,

262
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:50.399
rather than just being a tool for Jack to use. Yes, yeah,

263
00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.039
it says in April of sixty seven, when the second

264
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:56.759
set of letters were mailed, he was inside city limits

265
00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:58.000
when he bought a local.

266
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.759
Paper for the address. So again elude too, he does

267
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:01.440
not live there.

268
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.399
Now that he carries right on into Kathleen Johns. I

269
00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.559
thought this was some very interesting information because you don't

270
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:09.960
find this.

271
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.960
Yes, go ahead, Yes, the embow with Kathleen Johns is

272
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.240
very much like the MBO at cher Joe Bates.

273
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.080
Yes, yeah, with her problems.

274
00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:20.519
And offering a ride and that type of thing.

275
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.399
And earlier this I showed that he was a small

276
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.399
truck mechanic. He was a truck mechanic at the Lenen Company.

277
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.720
He was very well versed in mechanics and how to

278
00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:32.919
disable a vehicle. I'm sure if you can fix one,

279
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:37.879
you can disable one ten times easier. So this one

280
00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:40.559
is the Kathleen John's information. It says early in the

281
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:44.159
evening of March twenty second, nineteen seventy, Kathleen Johns twenty three,

282
00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:47.000
was driving her infant daughter, Jennifer, on Highway one thirty

283
00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:50.440
two in San Wiquing County, several miles west of Modesto.

284
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.399
And I remember the one of the letters from dB

285
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.919
Cooper came out of Modesto using the Modesto B for cutouts.

286
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.960
Right, wasn't she way to Santa Rosa?

287
00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.200
I you know, and there's so many stories.

288
00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.200
This is just what we know is was on his

289
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.120
site at least up to that point, because.

290
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.799
For Modesto, that's the highway you would take to get

291
00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:13.720
the Beayar to hit one oh one, which would go

292
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:14.879
up to Santa Rosa.

293
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.600
I'm pretty sure I think she was supposed to be

294
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:19.720
going to visit a sister or family or something.

295
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.120
Most and I think it was in Santa Rosa.

296
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.279
Okay, so she said, it says several miles west of

297
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.759
Modesto when a man in a light colored American car

298
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.360
started honking his horn and blinking his lights at her.

299
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:33.879
Driving alongside her car.

300
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:35.879
He said that one of her wheels was wabbling and

301
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.720
volunteered to fix it. He followed her as she pulled

302
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.120
over at Bird Road, a turn off just west of

303
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.879
Interstate five, then got out with a lug wrench and

304
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:46.559
pretended to tighten the nuts on her car on her

305
00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.720
right rear wheel. In fact, he removed them, and when

306
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.840
John's tried to drive off, the whole wheel spun loose again.

307
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:54.879
The man offered to help, this time in the form

308
00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.200
of a ride to a nearby service station. She accepted,

309
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:00.840
and they continued in the man's car west one thirty

310
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.960
two until he pulled into a Richfield station at Chrismin Road.

311
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:07.519
It was closed, and there followed an hour and a

312
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.319
half of more silent and apparently aimless driving through the

313
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.880
city of Tracy and its rural environs. As they passed

314
00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.920
occasional other service stations. She asked a few times, what's

315
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.440
wrong with this station? Or why can't we go into

316
00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.039
that station, to which he replied that it was not

317
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.880
the right one. A police report states that she said

318
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.200
she was very scared of this man, did not want

319
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.559
to get out, but did not tell him to stop

320
00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:34.319
the vehicle or letter out.

321
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.319
Miss Johns soon.

322
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.720
Realized that the stranger wasn't taking her to any service

323
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.119
station and asked him if he was always went around

324
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.599
helping people like this. The man responded that by the

325
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.960
time I get through with them, they won't need my help.

326
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:49.799
Wow, that'd be an awfully.

327
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.000
Scary thing to hear as a woman sitting there with

328
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:56.240
an infant in my lap. From time to time he

329
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.319
would slow down as if he were about to pull over,

330
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.839
and then he would speed up again. He stopped the

331
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.359
car short at a stop sign, and John's took the

332
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.200
opportunity to escape. She held her baby tightly and jumped

333
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.559
from the car, running across the nearby field and up

334
00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:10.720
an embankment.

335
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.119
Where she hid in the shadows.

336
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.759
The man turned his head lights off, moved his car

337
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.759
a few feet, and waited silently without leaving the car.

338
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:21.119
After about five minutes, he had turned his lights back

339
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.079
on and drove away.

340
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:29.559
Now this is where this is where Voight then is going.

341
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.440
To throw in that ounce of mystery and what the

342
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.480
heck and is this really But he goes on to

343
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:39.640
say when she made it to the local police station

344
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.640
in Patterson, she recognized the man who had sabotaged her

345
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.720
wheel as the man in the composite sketch of the

346
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.119
Zodiac which appeared in a wanted poster that hung prominently

347
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.880
in the office. So mind you, she's looking at the

348
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:55.559
composite drawing from Officer Folk from SFPD in the presidio

349
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.079
murder of Paul Steine because he actually stopped and spoke

350
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.720
to the Zoe. The death sergeant, perhaps terrified at the

351
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:06.680
prospect of a confrontation.

352
00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.839
With a villain on the level of Doctor Octopus.

353
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.960
Or the Joker, had John's wait alone in a nearby

354
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.119
cafe for several hours until her car could be returned.

355
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.519
The sergeant broadcast the car's last known location, and a

356
00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.559
Stantaslauc County Sheriff's deputy found it thoroughly burned and still smoldering.

357
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.359
The abductor had returned to the car and set it

358
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.920
on fire, destroying everything inside.

359
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.279
Now he says, miss Yeah, now, he says.

360
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.680
Miss John's accounts of the Knight's events have varied over

361
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.759
the years and differed from the interview to interview. The

362
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.160
most dramatic version and most familiar is the one described

363
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.000
in Robert grayce Smith's Zodiac, which is as the man

364
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.799
overtly threatening both the woman and her baby and getting

365
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:46.160
out of.

366
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.279
His car with a flashlight.

367
00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:51.039
After her escape in the late nineteen nineties, after identifying

368
00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:54.039
two different and dissimilar men as their rebductor, John's admitted

369
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.079
that she couldn't even remember if she had been legally

370
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:57.960
married at the time, and that her memory could not

371
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.200
be trusted to make a case against any fati kill

372
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:00.839
her suspect.

373
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:06.799
Okay, did she go on to drugs after this?

374
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:07.279
Like?

375
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.559
What would have caused her to?

376
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:11.880
Or did she get poison?

377
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:13.920
Yeah? Right?

378
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:18.400
And and it and I like, the most dramatic version

379
00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.920
and the most familiar is the one described in Robert

380
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.000
Graysmith's book. Well, we know he hasn't been telling the truth,

381
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:26.839
and he's writing the book to sensationalize the story.

382
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.680
And to sell and to sell books.

383
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.920
So who is to say that that he didn't write it?

384
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.920
The way he wanted to write it, since it is

385
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:35.880
pseudo fiction.

386
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.960
So I thought that was extremely interesting that. Of course,

387
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.680
once they they determined or once they tell the story,

388
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.960
which she did flat out. When she got into the.

389
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.880
Police department, every bit of research I've ever seen says

390
00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:53.440
she pointed straight to the wanted poster and said, that's

391
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:54.440
the man who abducted me.

392
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.400
Yep, you just spent an hour and a half in

393
00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:58.079
the car with him.

394
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.440
It's not thirty years after the fact that she walked

395
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.160
in and pointed him out. She did this immediately after

396
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.400
having been abducted and gotten.

397
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:09.880
Away, so I would save her her coach, or her

398
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.880
her view or her identification at the time it happened

399
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.160
at that moment, you know.

400
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.960
And she wasn't in the middle of being stabbed or

401
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.160
shot where it could be. Oh, I'm sketchy, and I

402
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.279
just don't know what's going on.

403
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:28.839
I'm sure she was scared, don't get me wrong, but

404
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.720
she obviously wasn't in a terrified position where her life

405
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.799
was at stake where she could have made these type

406
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.359
of mistakes.

407
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:36.920
She had an hour and a half to stare at

408
00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:37.359
this man.

409
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.559
That's crazy, all right.

410
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.119
So now we're going to get to some of these

411
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.519
hoax letters. And this is interesting because you know, we've

412
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.480
been talking about these crack proof letters for quite some time,

413
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:51.640
where you know, they're trying to say they were a hoax,

414
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.160
or they were copycats, or they were forgeries by Tashi

415
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:56.960
or like whatever they were. He gets into some of

416
00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.599
these things. This one is going to be the Exorcist,

417
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.839
but they were originally dismissed as a hoax. Certain phrases

418
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.960
from this car to repeat it and later confirmed Zodiac.

419
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.680
Letters, particular craft Proof, which.

420
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.799
Would appear in a letter to the Los Angeles Times

421
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:16.640
five months later. The juxtaposition of the letters FK also

422
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.839
repeat in the zodiac literature, frequently in the two long ciphers,

423
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:24.319
and also in the hieroglyph that closes The Exorcist in

424
00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:28.160
nineteen seventy four. And if you've seen that, a lot

425
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.279
of people have kind of related the hieroglyph that's in

426
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.200
the Exorcist letter to be a symbol that was found

427
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:39.240
on a soy sauce bottle that one of the victims

428
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.480
from the Santa Rosa area or the Highway one oh

429
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:46.839
one murders and stuff had actually had in her possession.

430
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.759
So it made been a link and that might have

431
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:51.039
been one of the clues.

432
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:52.119
To attach to it.

433
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.799
And the exorcist letter is talking about the thirteenth victim

434
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.519
at this point, so it's right after Donna Lass. The

435
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.039
other Aleen sent October twenty seventh, was a customized Halloween

436
00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.759
greeting card, and it was addressed personally to Paul Avery

437
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:08.160
at the Chronicle, though his name was this spelled on

438
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:12.279
the envelope as Averlely. Inside the envelope, written twice very

439
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.599
lightly in the shape of an X, was the comment

440
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.440
sorry no cipher. In addition to signing the card with

441
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.519
a Z and the customary cross circle, the zodiac drew

442
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:24.000
an unusual symbol also used as a return address on

443
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:27.119
the envelope, the thirteen eyes and the message peek a

444
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:31.400
boo you are doomed. It is the message that's on

445
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.799
the inside of the card. Kathleen John's, the woman abducted

446
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.559
on Highway one thirty two, received a similar card.

447
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.759
I never knew this.

448
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.839
Yeah, well, and that's what makes it so zodiac like, right.

449
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:47.960
He doesn't just send one, he sends two or three.

450
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.240
I wouldn't be surprised if there were others. It says

451
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.599
she received a similar card, ostensibly from the Zodiac at

452
00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:56.640
about the same time.

453
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.240
Would she ford to Avery? Why did she send it

454
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.319
to Avery?

455
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:06.799
What in the world but which Avery claims he never received,

456
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.200
Of course she did. John's attributes the card to a crank,

457
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.720
since her name and address appeared in the newspaper shortly

458
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:15.839
after her abduction, but the timing of the card and

459
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.000
description that she gave of it suggests the strong possibility

460
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.079
that it was genuine and somehow lost in the.

461
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:26.440
Cases see of details. Isn't that so polite? Something nice?

462
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:28.960
The way he said that? Right?

463
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:34.000
The CARDI Avery was widely considered a thread on his life,

464
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.359
and the Chronicle ran a front page story about it

465
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:37.240
on October thirty.

466
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:37.759
First.

467
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.000
Among the male that this generated was an anonymous letter

468
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.880
from Riverside urging Avery to investigate a link with the

469
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.200
still unsolved Batesburner. Next to nothing that has been written

470
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.799
about its author, and no photograph of the letter has

471
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.160
been published, but Grace Smiths transcribes.

472
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.359
It in the Zodiac books. I might have to take

473
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:56.920
a look and see if I can find that.

474
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:03.279
In his books. I think eventually Avery came to believe

475
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.720
that they were that Bates was a zodiac situation.

476
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:10.519
Oh yeah, he's the one that went down and triggered

477
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:15.000
the two different departments between San Francisco and Riverside to

478
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:17.960
have this meeting. And we've seen the Foyer information in

479
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.000
which case they stated both law law enforcement departments stated

480
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:24.920
that it was exactly the same person that is doing

481
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:25.680
both things.

482
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.279
There's so many the.

483
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:32.200
Triplicate form of communications, the carbon copies of the confession letter,

484
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:35.680
the using it looks like a number two, but it

485
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:37.440
is definitely it can be related to.

486
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.880
A z as well at the bottom of these communications.

487
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.880
So and he points it out himself when he says,

488
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:44.880
I have a hell of a lot more down there.

489
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.640
So that letter to the La Times in regards to

490
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.559
his Riverside activity, he tells you that he has bifurcated

491
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.200
the number of victims and he considers Zodiac to be

492
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:00.319
something separate even though he's taking claim for Riverside. Way

493
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:02.519
of saying there's a hell of a lot more down there,

494
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:07.000
tells us that he's not including all of those numbers

495
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.599
in the communications that he's currently sending.

496
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:10.240
As the zodiac.

497
00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.880
Right, So it says please forward the contents of this

498
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.920
letter to the detected in charge the Zodiac murder case.

499
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:21.119
I hope this information will also Oh, this is the transcribing.

500
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.839
We don't have to go to Greece Smith's book. This

501
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:24.559
is what this letter supposedly says.

502
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.839
Please forward the contents of this letter to detective in

503
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.480
charge of the Zodiac murder case.

504
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.880
I hope this information. Oh no, I'm sorry. I think

505
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:33.319
this is.

506
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.640
The letter that caused him to link the Riverside and

507
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:40.519
go talk to Riverside versus the letter that the Zodiac

508
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.279
purportedly wrote.

509
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:43.799
Started over one more ten.

510
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.640
Please forward the contents of this letter to the detective

511
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.880
in charge of the Zodiac murder case. I hope this

512
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.680
information will also help you, as we would both like

513
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.640
to see this case solved. As for myself, I wish

514
00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.559
to remain anonymous, and I know that you will understand why.

515
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:02.799
I feel like this is literally written by Jack, not

516
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.279
an anonymous person. Yeah perhaps, yeah, well we've got the

517
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.559
words remaining anonymous, and he says in Tim Millers he says,

518
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.160
in Tim Miller's finale letter, the you know anonymous killer,

519
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.799
basically the unknown, And now that I've given my information,

520
00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.240
why is it still a secret? But he also says, understand,

521
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.880
understand understand. You see this in many of the communications,

522
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.359
so to see that in this first line, I was

523
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:29.839
just like, oh gosh, I think this is.

524
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:31.519
Him, right.

525
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.160
But also it's curious to say the detective in charge

526
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:38.359
of the Zodiac murder case, well, San Francisco. There was

527
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.160
only one Zodiac burd in San Francisco that was Paul Starring.

528
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.680
There were three in the Balathough area, and so why

529
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.880
would the San Francisco be the one in charge. They

530
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.599
kind of usurped it, and an FBI kind of came

531
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.880
in too and just stifle everything.

532
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:57.640
Yeah, yes, well, I think because the intentions for them.

533
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.000
The newspaper that was going to be making this money

534
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:01.400
was the Hearst Corporation.

535
00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:08.240
Now I was at Chronicles Hurst, the examiner was was Hearst.

536
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:13.119
But they were connectively sharing information back and forth and

537
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.960
both producing the same stuff.

538
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:20.880
And hers was syndicated throughout the country, so it was everywhere.

539
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.960
So right, right, Well, a few it says a few

540
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.920
years ago in Riverside, California, a young girl was murdered

541
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:30.160
just about I believe on Halloween evening. I could write

542
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.680
a much longer letter citing the similarities between Zodiac's case

543
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.000
and this murder which occurred in Riverside. But if the

544
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:40.599
police department cannot see said comparative similarities between these two cases,

545
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.799
then I will take a slow boat to China.

546
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:44.759
Even if these two crimes.

547
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.240
Were committed by two different people, I think, after all

548
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.759
the facts are studied regarding both of the cases. If

549
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.000
police have not already investigated these possibilities and are not

550
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.599
already aware of the Riverside case, then even so perhaps

551
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:57.759
they should look into it.

552
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.559
So some of these words even perhaps apps and rather

553
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:05.359
and what did I just see the other one?

554
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:14.000
After all the facts are studied regarding both of these

555
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:16.920
k okay, I lost it. But some of the some

556
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.279
of the words that that are being used in here

557
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.079
is the type of linguistics we were hearing from the

558
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:27.359
Zodiac killer letters to the newspapers similar erratic printing. Find

559
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.440
out about these two different cases. Give Captain Cross a

560
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.400
call on the phone.

561
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.400
He knows that I do not quit.

562
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:34.559
Wooo.

563
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.799
That to me is the statement of more and more

564
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.920
and more so has he been long since writing Captain

565
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.039
Cross of the Riverside PD Because he's indicating that this

566
00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:50.119
guy knows he doesn't quit. So how many anonymous letters

567
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:52.039
can you send it before you're figured out as to

568
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.519
who you are sending them.

569
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:57.440
Also, I think it's a really weird coincidence that Brian

570
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:01.240
hartnelled one of the victims that bury Essa, ended up

571
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:02.680
living in Riverside.

572
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.079
Yeah, that is a terrible coincidence.

573
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.920
Well, these days we don't have very many real coincidences.

574
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.319
So, yeah, a lawyer or I'd probably retired now, but

575
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:18.839
he became a lawyer and I called him lawyer, lawyer,

576
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:21.000
and he would not respond.

577
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:24.160
Yeah, we just wanted him to listen to Jack's voice.

578
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:26.160
That's it.

579
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.039
It would have been a simple task either a yeay

580
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.920
or name. So it goes on to say, mister Avery,

581
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:32.799
I will give you a call in the near future.

582
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:35.400
Please look into the case. The Riverside Police have a

583
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.519
wealth of information, so does San Francisco. Let us hope

584
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.440
that they are not too proud to work together, and

585
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.680
if they already are, let us hope that there has

586
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:44.160
been an exchange of information.

587
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:48.640
After locating it a.

588
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.920
Year old letter from the Riverside Chief of Police to

589
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.279
a Napa County detective that had similarly linked the Bates

590
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.279
murder with the Zodiac, Avery visited the Riverside police, reviewed

591
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.599
their evidence and instigated a meeting between their detectives and

592
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.640
detectives from Solano, Napa, and San Francisco counties, who compared

593
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:09.000
notes and agreed that there was a definite link.

594
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:13.920
A definite link. I want everybody to remember.

595
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.920
That as they try to bifrecate these cases now these

596
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:18.920
days and san that Jerry Joe Bates was not part

597
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.440
of this a definite link. For them to say that

598
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:24.359
they may not have told us what it was, but

599
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:25.319
for them to say it.

600
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.319
Means they found a definite link.

601
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.160
Between the Bates murders and the Zodiac crimes and that

602
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.200
they were most likely committed by the same man. State

603
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.640
handwriting analyst Sherwood Moral checked the writing on the desk

604
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:40.240
and envelopes against samples of the known Zodiac writing and

605
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.720
found that they were unquestionably from the same hand. And

606
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.000
I found the same thing. Who I just got goosebumps

607
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.240
on over Mabatte. I found the same thing doing the examination.

608
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.000
The Riverside story broke on November sixteenth, nineteen seventy, when

609
00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.599
Avery's article was printed in the Chronicle.

610
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.400
And they are closed at the Bates murder site that

611
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:03.799
linked back to the San Diego.

612
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:07.079
Murders right, there's there's going to be something they haven't

613
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.519
told us all this while. Yeah, there's a there's clues

614
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.319
at every scene, I'm pretty sure, including the wing Walkers.

615
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.799
I mean, if you committed one crime in in San

616
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.160
Diego with the what was that the Domingus and Edwards

617
00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:24.519
case in in Santa Barbara at the at the beach

618
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:27.039
and then the swindles, and we see these.

619
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:32.880
Air sit domus are like the yeah, yeah.

620
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.559
The military walkers they were they were the military wing

621
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.759
Walkers were found at the Edwards Domingus site, found at

622
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:42.960
the Sherry Joe Bates site, and found at the Lake

623
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:44.000
Berriesa site.

624
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.240
So we have cross connectivity.

625
00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:48.319
If you were a killer trying not to get caught

626
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.279
or be known for all these murders, you're certainly not

627
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:52.359
going to put on the same shoes you killing every time,

628
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:58.640
all right. A review of certain zodiac documents seemed to indicate.

629
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.640
What's that it don't fit? You must have quit, Yes

630
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:07.319
you did.

631
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:13.640
Because yeah, always whatever. They found his schuprits at the

632
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.400
Burder site, but just because of the glove, because it

633
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:18.319
was all shrunken up and it didn't fit, it was

634
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:20.640
not a good idea. They have him tried on, but

635
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.079
they did.

636
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.119
I'm sorry, I've never seen somebody try to put a

637
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.039
glove on like this.

638
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.200
You go like this, sin, you wiggle your lil hands and.

639
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.119
Nope, he's over there trying to cram this thing on

640
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:43.519
a full fledged turkey tail. A review of certain Zodiac

641
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:45.960
documents seems to indicate a plan to take credit for

642
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.119
the Bates murder eventually, and the possibility that he himself

643
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:51.880
wrote the anonymous letter cannot be discounted. So now here's

644
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.559
where he grows in the mystery and the confusion and

645
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.839
the disinformation. In the pencard of November nineteen sixty nine,

646
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.960
he hints that the police will be getting some bad

647
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:03.480
news in a while, and in the Mount Dievila letter

648
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.279
of June nineteen seventy he announces that he is hidden

649
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:08.639
a bomb and that you have until next ball to

650
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.599
dig it up. While the Zodiac never followed through with

651
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.159
any of his bomb threats, the November addition to his

652
00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:16.119
body count had much the same effect.

653
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.639
Even the map that accompanied.

654
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:20.800
That letter bore the year of bates death and its

655
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.480
brand name. In Phillips sixty six, doesn't.

656
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:26.280
One of the ciphers give a clue as to where

657
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:30.280
potentially the bomb was and didn't we try to check

658
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.039
the chicked it out. Supposely off of Green Valley Road,

659
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:39.519
right by the junction of six eighty and eighty.

660
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:41.119
There was there was one that he indicated. It was

661
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.679
a short, very short cipher. It was twenty some characters long.

662
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:47.639
I know it wasn't the Z thirteen because the Z

663
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:50.320
thirteen was the my name is cipher. So it was

664
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:53.559
like a Z twenty something or other and it supposedly

665
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:57.039
gave and if it did give a location, it was

666
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.320
probably the bomb that he was about to draw by

667
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.519
saying you're going to be getting bad news soon.

668
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.920
Is that he had done this stuff in other locations, right.

669
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:09.119
But the area it led to was right by, you know,

670
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:11.559
not far from Vallejo. It was.

671
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:16.400
Yet, you're absolutely right, because Harriet and I actually made

672
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.519
that trip to look at.

673
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.480
The Lake Kerman Road, which is right down in six eighty.

674
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.159
Yes, so we went to Lake Herman Road. We noted

675
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:27.079
that they had a phone. They still had a phone

676
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:29.119
booth there the last time her and I went.

677
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.480
It had not been taken down and is still there,

678
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:33.639
and I'm sure that it's still active. If you know

679
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:34.800
the right buttons to push.

680
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.239
But it's not an operating telephone obviously, where you can

681
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.000
throw some change in and make a phone call.

682
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:44.840
But we we visited both Lake Herman Roads.

683
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.960
We've visited the area right off of Green Valley Road

684
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.440
on eighty that we thought that this mapped back to,

685
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:55.199
and they had literally when they reconstructed a proper overpass,

686
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.239
because this used to be one of those simple, very

687
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:02.440
rural right like out off of seventy and ninety nine

688
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:04.719
where you could cross the freeway on a stop sign,

689
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.199
and that's, you know, pretty much unheard of. On most

690
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.639
major freeways, you've got overpasses and underpasses that take you

691
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:15.079
on and off in different directions. And this particular overpass

692
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:18.079
that was being built to cross over on Green Valley,

693
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.679
they had demolished and destroyed all of the cement and

694
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:26.599
freeway material and piled it right on the location that

695
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.480
we thought we would go and find something. So we

696
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:31.840
couldn't even search the ground at this point because it

697
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.840
looked to me like they were building that up in

698
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.840
order to make the mound to create the overpass. So boom,

699
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:39.360
that area is covered and done.

700
00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:47.480
Picture yeah, yeah, yeah.

701
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:51.000
Furthermore, the letter E is represented by seven cipher characters

702
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:51.360
in the.

703
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:54.599
Three crickogram of July nineteen sixty nine and.

704
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:56.880
For for years of for those of you that do

705
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.320
not know the more, a single leg can be represented

706
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.519
by a symbol. So if you take six symbols and

707
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.239
they're all ease, then it's harder to decode, because if

708
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.559
you used one symbol for E, being the largest used

709
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.079
letter in the English language, you would easily be able

710
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:19.760
to then deconstruct the cipher, like the Hardens did on

711
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.360
the three part cipher. So by using six symbols for

712
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:26.480
the letter E, he didn't have to duplicate any of

713
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.400
the ease for us to be able to determine the

714
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:31.920
word between or c or you know, these type of

715
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.320
words that would allow us to decode the rest of it.

716
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.960
Of these characters, the last four are a plus one now.

717
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.480
They also said in one of the recent documentaries for

718
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.559
the Zodiac, where they claim to have solved the three

719
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.360
forty cipher, they indicated that they believed that the sign

720
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.760
off the last couple symbols in that were the sign

721
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.800
off of the actual individual. And if you look at

722
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.559
the last site, the last sign off, it is actually

723
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.920
the I say the monogram for Jack or j W Terrence,

724
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.880
and if you look at it, it absolutely can be

725
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.000
made into it. It's what you would do if you

726
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:15.159
wanted to monogram your own initials. They figure out a

727
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:18.360
way to encompash all three of your initials into one symbol.

728
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:21.880
And then the plus one is I think because Jack

729
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:22.920
is a junior.

730
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.360
So JW T plus one is junior to.

731
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:30.599
Me, So it makes sense. And it still follows along

732
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:35.719
with my suspect, which also seems to elude the uncredited

733
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.280
first murder. The official position of the Riverside Police Department

734
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:42.239
and many independent investigators of nineteen ninety eight is that

735
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:43.440
Sherry Joe Bates.

736
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.239
Was not a Zodiac victim. So we'll get them go already.

737
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:52.519
Yeah they are, they aren't, they are, they aren't. RPD

738
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.599
maintains a local man as their suspect. That's bloney.

739
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.760
The local man was her boyfriend who eventually returned ten

740
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:01.159
years later. They did DNA testing and found it wasn't

741
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:02.760
consistent with the DNA on her body.

742
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:04.480
So even though I'm.

743
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.559
Reading aspect, but he didn't do it.

744
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:11.119
He didn't do it, and considers the Zodiac murders entirely unrelated.

745
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.679
Thank you for putting that in there.

746
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.519
No, I didn't. That's the first I heard that. Did

747
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:20.400
Riverside police. I thought all alone? They thought for sure, Yes,

748
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.679
it's probably Zoiet they did.

749
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:27.599
There is unquestionably files later.

750
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:31.119
Yeah, there's FBI files that they did. They discuss it.

751
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.119
The chief of police came out and said, we have

752
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.519
made a connection between these and the Zodiac cases.

753
00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:38.280
Right, so this is just more.

754
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.480
This is more.

755
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:41.000
What's that?

756
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:43.480
This is from Voight's website.

757
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:45.960
Yeah, so you can see how these.

758
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:47.039
Just putting it out there.

759
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.679
It's contradictory, really completely confusion, more confusion.

760
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:55.039
Oh yeah.

761
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:01.960
The next letter came after uncharacteristics, uncharacteristically long five months silence,

762
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:05.400
posted on March twenty second, nineteen seventy one, with two

763
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.400
upside down six cent stamps. It was the only letter

764
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:11.000
the Zodiac ever sent to the Los Angeles Times, and

765
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.760
it was the first to be sent from outside San Francisco.

766
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.760
It had been postmarking pleasant in fifteen miles of the

767
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:24.119
East Bay. Now, yes, so that's where this gets That's

768
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.440
where this gets interesting because Dennison actually put together the

769
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:33.320
fact that Jack and Danny Reynolds, Jack's second wife, had

770
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:37.199
gotten into some trouble and on March twenty second, nineteen

771
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.000
seventy one. I believe that's when Danny Reynolds went to Cya.

772
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.239
So we're going to see a spell where the zodiac

773
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:46.679
just goes missing for about three years. And this is

774
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.760
the entire time that Danny Reynolds is in Cya.

775
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:51.519
And when Danny.

776
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:53.960
Reynolds is released, Jack is actually the one that picks

777
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.480
him up, brings him back to South Lake Tahoe to

778
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:02.239
live with his new Familyaura and Dennis and Mary and

779
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:02.840
the kids.

780
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.440
You know, like, who does this sou picks up a

781
00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:06.079
step son.

782
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:08.800
And technically, at this time when that happens, I want

783
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:13.320
to say, it's roughly nineteen seventy four, Jack isn't even

784
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:18.400
legitimately divorced from his mother yet, so Doris Reynolds is

785
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:19.440
still married to Jack.

786
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:21.639
Unbeknownst to Jack, Jack's married Nora.

787
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:25.679
Their their marriage gets annulled, and we see that, we

788
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.280
see that Doris Reynolds has to refile for a second divorce.

789
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:31.679
So there's a whole lot of what the heck is

790
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:33.480
going on around here with these people.

791
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:38.519
So the next letter came yep after that with da

792
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:40.800
da da da oh in the Pleasant and it's on

793
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:43.960
your way, Pleasanton is on your way to Cya.

794
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:47.000
Yeah, Jack used to live in San Jose for a

795
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.039
while too, Right and six eighty goes to San Jose.

796
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:58.480
It was Pleasanton and uh in ses Mal Diablo red

797
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:02.440
Diablo's right there in the center bone and that's Mecca.

798
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:05.320
Yes, it's a neat little web.

799
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.039
So this letter that came out on March twenty second,

800
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:11.960
nineteen seventy one said this is the Zodiac speaking like

801
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.800
I've always said, I am crack proof.

802
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:14.960
If the Blue.

803
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.199
Meetings are ever going to catch me, they have best

804
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:20.159
get off their fat asses and do something, because the

805
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:24.199
longer they fiddle and fart around Texas Reference, the more

806
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:28.239
slaves I will I will collect for my afterlife. I

807
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.119
do not give, I do not have to give them

808
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:34.159
credit for stumbling across my riverside activity. But they are

809
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:36.679
only finding the easy ones. They're a hell of a

810
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.119
lot more down there. The reason I'm writing this to

811
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:41.559
the Times is this. They don't bury me on the

812
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:46.440
back pages like some of the others. SFPD zero cross circle,

813
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:51.079
which is the zodiac symbol, and it says minus seventeen plus.

814
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.000
So again, this whole notion of is it less or

815
00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:56.639
is it more. We're going to keep you guessing.

816
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.199
A week later, he sent another host card to Paul Avery,

817
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:05.079
again misspelled as Avery at the Chronicle. This one was

818
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:07.920
decorated with a sketch of condominium complex that had been

819
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.480
under development at Incline Village, Nevada, near Lake Tahoe by

820
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.800
the Boise Cascade Corporation doing business as Boise Inner Lake

821
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:18.400
between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy. The same picture

822
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.800
had appeared in the Chronicle three days earlier. And I'm

823
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.880
not sure why he's repeating this unless it was sent again.

824
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:31.119
Because ago and just a third that's Inclines at north Shore.

825
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:34.960
It's actually right state learned by the casinos.

826
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.159
Right the Sinatra side. Baby, Yes, he.

827
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:41.599
Was at the Diplomat Hotel.

828
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:44.159
Well everything, And.

829
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:48.400
This particular card he's talking about is the Donna Lass

830
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.960
card for her having gone missing.

831
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.360
So and he says, he says twelve victims at this

832
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:57.239
particular time.

833
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:01.199
So why this came chronologically again afters we just saw

834
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:04.400
that this last letter said minus seventeen plus.

835
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:06.719
So why are we seeing this again? I tried to

836
00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:10.239
go to the Jake work pines. I don't believe. Well,

837
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:10.960
maybe I ended up.

838
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:13.159
We'll see when we get there, but says a week

839
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.639
later he sent another postcard to Paul Avery.

840
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:21.840
Okay, yeah, the Lasa's skull was started off a highway

841
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.920
e though, even though she went missing off of south

842
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:26.760
from Salashore, which is off of fifty.

843
00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:31.119
So that's another interesting weird.

844
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:36.000
The dogs also hit so Lauren Swerringham had actually worked

845
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:41.719
with Harriet based on Jack's decoding or ciphering that Dennis

846
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:46.039
had described to her, and they located a location up

847
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:49.519
off of fifty and they took the people from that

848
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.039
documentary that I was just talking about, and they did

849
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:56.679
a cadaver search with dogs, and the dogs hit on something,

850
00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:01.119
but they never were capable, supposedly of actual digging anything up,

851
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.440
which might indicate that that's where her body originally laid

852
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:07.559
and then was moved after the fact. And I think

853
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:09.519
that we talked a little bit in the research that

854
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.760
there was some inclination that the Zodiac was told to

855
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.199
move the body or he indicated he moved the body.

856
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.079
Maybe this was one of Harriet's you know, ciphersolves or something.

857
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:21.800
I don't Yeah, I think that Harriet did have that

858
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:22.599
that thought.

859
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.079
Through a saw and yes, and then it.

860
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:29.880
And then the next link that Lauren Sweeringham showed after

861
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:34.360
this particular stopping point at in the Placerville area is

862
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.639
that it then rounded its way back up the backside

863
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:41.519
of Lake Tahoe to the to the eighty and twenty,

864
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.440
which is exactly where her skull had been found I

865
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:47.679
think in nineteen eighty six, but it wasn't tested for

866
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.440
DNA and found to be hers until what twenty.

867
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.159
Four, twenty twenty four?

868
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:59.119
Yeah, I think, yeah, so interesting, Yeah, that her school

869
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:01.840
was found exactly where this man ciphered it. So is

870
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.239
this man also privy to information we're unaware of? I not,

871
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.119
or Jack is the one that created these ciphers, and

872
00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:13.360
based on Harriet's knowledge from Dennis and corroboration with Lauren Sweeringam,

873
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.400
they actually were able to locate the precise point in

874
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:17.800
which her remains would be.

875
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.960
Found just years later.

876
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.960
I mean, obviously this is happening in like twenty thirteen,

877
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:24.519
somewhere around there in twenty.

878
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:28.400
Fourteen, Okay, so.

879
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.559
The same picture it appeared in the Chronicle three days

880
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.679
earlier in an advertisement for the complex known as Forest Pines,

881
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.440
but it was called the Sierra Card. So I'm still

882
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:41.400
a little confused as to why we're back and forth,

883
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:45.199
unless it's just that the Sierra Club is that society

884
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:48.039
we're talking about in Forced Pines is the establishment where

885
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:49.800
the elite members were allowed to go and stay.

886
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:51.800
Because you got to remember, a brand new.

887
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:54.320
Condo association in South Lake tah isn't going to be

888
00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:56.079
for your average motel user.

889
00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:02.239
Hotel user right right to be expensive there it.

890
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:04.360
Is, sorry, Inclines, pretty ritzy.

891
00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:09.880
Right one? Ritzi here is that actual?

892
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:12.400
This is I think the insert that was in the

893
00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.559
newspaper and this came off. Oh so I was able

894
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:19.039
to look up the Jake work Pines. So when I

895
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:21.559
went to that link, it takes me back on wayback machine.

896
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.840
It shows me with these dark lines and red lines.

897
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:28.880
How many times this approximately? If I could get this

898
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.920
to work right here, it would tell me how many

899
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:34.639
times this image has been looked at, like way.

900
00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:36.480
Back even right?

901
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:43.079
Yes, yeah, so Forest Pines at Incline Lake Tahoe's finest

902
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.519
new condominiums include.

903
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:46.840
Village something or other.

904
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:49.400
I'm not sure what all right, it looks like, Oh well,

905
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.079
it looks like we're down to our last couple of minutes.

906
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:53.800
This might be a good place to stop as we

907
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:56.920
talk about the Wayback machine. But it's an Internet archive,

908
00:47:57.079 --> 00:47:59.119
and why they have taken this down I don't know.

909
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.480
And this obviously I must have ran on February twenty

910
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:06.360
second of twenty nineteen, and that's when I collected all

911
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:12.400
this information before way Back went away. Is there anything

912
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.159
you guys would like to add? Is we just kind

913
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:15.760
of round out these last minute?

914
00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:21.800
Well, I think it's definitely an ideata cut back and

915
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.880
look at these things to see if we can dig

916
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:27.000
a little bit on the Wayback Machine. We know when

917
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.480
we have tom because we could find some other things

918
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:33.159
too that were not previously there.

919
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:35.599
You know, Well, these are the links.

920
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:37.599
The only reason why I think these are bringing me

921
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.760
back to way Back if I try to go to

922
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:40.480
way Back, like.

923
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.119
I said, it for whatever reason, maybe it was having.

924
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.719
A bad day, but it wouldn't allow me to go

925
00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:49.039
in there and use an actual URL to check the archive.

926
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:53.039
But these are links from the information I actually took

927
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:55.880
off of Tom Boyd's website.

928
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:57.760
So when I click on the link, it takes me

929
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:58.639
back to way Back.

930
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.280
But like I said, I can't actively use way Back

931
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:03.239
to my knowledge, but I haven't tried to do it ever.

932
00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:06.280
Since the last time it said no, go Yeah, We'll

933
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.920
see when we get there, I suppose. Anyways, I think

934
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.400
that's pretty much about all we have for today, so

935
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.480
we will pick back up. We still have many slides

936
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:19.639
to go, much more information to check out, and I

937
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:22.199
wish everybody a happy weekend. I want to thank both

938
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:27.320
of you for being here. You have a wonderful, wonderful Friday,

939
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.599
yeah and weekend.

940
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:30.440
Take care of