Who is Tom Voight??? Part 2

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0:52 Good morning, True Crime Seekers, and oh my goodness, I just lost my mind. It's been a horrible week, you guys. Welcome back to an episode of Hit the Road, Jack Finding the Zodiac. We were last week talking about the website for tom BOYD and we are going to be climbing back into that shortly. But first I'd like to welcome to the show Nolan del Campo, Good earning. Everybody, and Lindsey good morning. Good morning. I literally just lost my train of thought after that rant.

1:33 All right, So if I like just totally start laughing postal, at least you know why. I actually got a YouTube, very very good reason. Yes, Like, my brain is just so scattered, it's in too many places at once, and I haven't had a lot of good sleep, so I'm hoping that will all come to an end here. Shortly, I did get a YouTube comment from Ed Edward Cyphers. I know that he has his own obviously, Ed Edwards is his suspect, which again been found that the handwriting examination by Mike Walsall was no good because he actually compared that he had writing to the minister that married Ed Edwards to.

2:16 His wife instead of Ed Edwards and then wrote a book. I think, I mean like. He actually osizes that he has discovered as a document examiner who the Zodiac Killer is. I love this stuff, can't make it up anyways. Ed Edwards' comments on last week's show as we're you know, digging into tom Boydton what he had nineteen ninety eight versus what he has now, And of course I'm not doing that juxtapposing of what he has now, just because I have no intentions of going to his site. A lot of people have complained that they end up with viruses and nobody wants their computer shut down just because they're trying to research this case. But that might also. Indicate that there's another that he obviously is in some type of play that is decimating people's computers so they can't figure it out on top of promoting bound suspects either way, and Edwards says, I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed this episode.

3:15 Yeah, the old tom Boke stuff is not up anymore. Right, No, no, it's it's been taken down. Over though it is the old tom Boke stuff to see his former position. Now, now, how are you able to access it? Way Back Machine? So I know this, and actually the last time I went directly to way back it looks like that might even have been pulled down as well. Loudsey, have you had any experience with it? Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't find it either. I mean I didn't. I should have went on. Uh there's another archive that I was. I meant to go on, but I didn't get a chance to.

4:00 Is that what? The wayback Machine also the time machine he wrote the novel. Way Back They do that, don't they. Wayback Machine is a program that crawls the Internet and basically geo maps URLs and pages and information on those pages and saves them in an archive so you can if you have the RL, you can typically go to the RL and all of the URLs I went to this time around, they did take me to way Back, but I really couldn't maneuver through the wayback system to do anything different. And the last time I went to way Back, it was telling me that it wasn't even available anymore. So everything I collected I collected some years ago before they took it down. So I have lots and lots. I mean I probably added about sixty sixty slides of stuff off of Tom Boyd's website. So that's where we're at today. I'm glad we ciphers that you liked this show.

5:03 Like I told him in my response on. YouTube, I was like, oh, it's still coming. We just barely started. So we left off last time at this wonderful letter from Robert Greysmith to Tom Boyd, and we're now we're going to climb into some of the things that he's saying about the actual letters themselves. Some of it is just to repeat about the zodiac stuff, and some of it actually injuredduce some new information that I didn't know at the time. But who knows what his position is these days. I'm sure he's quickly trying to change all of that too. The bottom line is that the letters that used to be on this website were black and white versions. I want to say that somewhere around two thousand and three to two thousand and five he updated them to color scans.

5:48 Again, how does somebody. That's, you know, a member of the public, I don't care how much you know or how we tend to research something. Are you given access to these color scans? Then he manipulates them and he widens the pixel with by a thousand by a thousand in order to create an eight and a half by eight and a half by eleven out of an actual five x seven communication. Now I think he was part of a bigger picture. Oh yes, just outlet. Oh he puts out what he's told to put out and what he's allowed to put out. There's a possibility, yes, And I have lots of emails that were supposedly back and forth between him.

6:34 I don't know if it was him or somebody pretending to. Be him, but by the time I was getting sick of the person's nonsense, he was literally offering to show me as junk and talking a sexual crap. Yeah, yeah, like are you asking kidding me? And I have all these emails still too, So I wanted I'm gonna step back because I forgot to mention, why not end the hunt with Arthur Lee Allen. So we just discussed last. Week that Arthur Lee Allen named a star in Robert Graysmith's book. So they've accused him continually all the way into two thousand and seven with the Jake Gillenhall movie. Arthur Lee Allen is still the number one suspect. Last week we discussed that he died with that letter in his hand saying I Am not the zodiac, right. I squashed one thing with that. If it was a zodiac, he'd have bragged about it, right. We talked about that last week.

7:26 Yeah, between the book and the movie, I'm glad the movie doesn't go into this killer starbullshit like the book does. And is why would you even write the book that way? I'm thinking because he could have been sued because he's wrong. You know it's perfectly ellen. Why are you going to call him a suitable because. He could be sued because he knows it wasn't him. The only way you can tell the truth is if it's the truth, right, If he didn't write it this fiction, they can't get a pseudonym, then there's a possibility he could have been sued for continuing to press this issue, right, I mean, you're the attorney defamation slambert slander.

8:10 Like, what what is. The amount that the family could sue for if they outright named him? No answer? All right, So let's let's move to number two. Because this dawned on me last week after we got done with our show. Is that I'm what's that? What's that. You're You're always he's buffering or something. Anyway, I can't hear you. Something's going on with your audio at any rate. I'm going to put notion number two to us.

8:54 Everybody wants to say that Arthur Lee Allen was part of this group. Wouldn't this been the easiest way on his deathbed to crush any more investigation had he not just bribed and said I was the Zodiac, if he was part of this group, he just saved this whole group, right, it would it would have squashed the investigation any further. They could have named it on, blamed it on Arthur Lee Allen and it would have been done. It would have been over. Nobody would be climbing into anything. SFPD would have shut the entire thing down. But there's more money to be made in the in the conspiracy theory or in the mystery of it for hollyweird, and if it is perpetrated by these same syndicates, let's say politicians mob all of these other people. The benefit was to make money to begin with. In my mind, I mean, we've got people rioting on the streets of San Francisco and Berkeley because of the Vietnam War that's going on.

9:50 So let's perpetrate a serial killer tread and still fear, get people to go inside, stop rioting, stop you know, protesting against this war. And then it makes a lot of money for the newspapers, which that was the mainstream way to get information out back then, and you could sell millions of newspapers off of these hot topics. At the same time, down in La you had the Manson people running around, right. Well, weren't they a little earlier? And we're sixty nine. The murders were August sixty nine. They left San Francisco in sixty seven, so from like sixty eight or on they were in La. So it's just a hot mess of cold type behavior going on here.

10:31 In cal Manson had people that were kind of pulling his strings too. Oh yeah, oh yeah, and I think we're seeing that in the David Berkowitz stuff with some of Sam as well. I don't evolve in a larger. Right right. Oh that's a good word, cabal. The only time I ever heard that word was on Blacklist. And again, like I said, they're more most notorious, criminal, most wanted around the world, criminal is Jewish. I'm like, what the shrak right now? They need to stop pram down. I saw a video.

11:13 I saw a video that you know, these conspiracy theorists scream that The Simpsons is predicting future happenstances like the outbreak with China and and all these different you know, things that are politically driven that are happening to the average citizen around the world, and instead, why don't they think about it? Is a desensitization, so you. Get a little bit of it through the media. Whatever they're portraying. They want don't want you to be shocked when it actually happens and be a disbelief. They want you to be like, oh, you know, I saw that somewhere before. And normalize you to it. So yeah, all right, So the letter, the first letter starts out here is says A week later, he sent another post called Postcard to Paul Avery, again misspelled as Averley, out the Chronicle. This one was decorated with a sketch of a condominium complex that had been under development at Incline Village, Nevada, near Lake Tahoe by the Boise Cascade Corporation doing businesses Boise Interlake between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy. The same picture had appeared in the Chronicle three days earlier for an advertisement for the complex known as Forest Pines.

12:27 Now, the research that I did. Into this, the Sierra Club is, I guess, another one of those secret organizations or you know, high follutant membership societies where not many people get in. And so there was some affiliation. And I don't really remember everything that Harriet had talked about in regards to it, but that while it's called Forest Pines, it was the Sierra Club card and has been known as the Sierra Cub Club Card for quite some time. And I did do a little bit of research on it and try to track some of that back, and we've talked about that when we actually looked at that letter. So he goes on to say they would not be consolidated into Riverside Press Enterprise until nineteen eighty three.

13:08 The Riverside Enterprise and the Riverside Press had been under joint ownership since nineteen thirty two. The Enterprise was a morning paper that circulated in rosevilt Or Riverside County, outside city limits, while the Press was an afternoon local that served the city. That the killer gave the full name and the complete address only on the second envelope suggests that he was copying it from the publishing information inside the paper. If any conjecture can be gleaned from this, it is that the killer was passing through Riverside when Bates was killed, and so is more familiar with the county paper than the city edition. So traveling through. They're now saying they don't believe it with somebody who lived there, like a boyfriend or you know, all the normal suspects.

13:52 But it was interesting that that said that. Yeah, was Dewler at the time, but he didn't do it. But they have been a cars. Well, and I'm not gonna say he didn't fly Jack down there. I don't know how Jack got around to many of his places. I know he would go on meth runs, and he would drive for hours at a time, so I'm not putting it past him having it driven. But the fact that Dennis recalls him saying that's when Arthur Lee Allen is being portrayed as the suspect on the news, and Jack says that this guy was the nice gentleman who gave him a ride home from Lake Barriessa, and Jack was purportedly taking flying lessons at the same time. And this is all right before.

14:34 The D. D. Cooper stuff, So the. Planes and the things that are coming into play here is kind of meshing together. But it doesn't mean that Arthur Lee. Allen was fully aware of what this group was doing, rather than just being a tool for Jack to use. Yes, yeah, it says in April of sixty seven, when the second set of letters were mailed, he was inside city limits when he bought a local. Paper for the address. So again elude too, he does not live there. Now that he carries right on into Kathleen Johns. I thought this was some very interesting information because you don't find this. Yes, go ahead, Yes, the embow with Kathleen Johns is very much like the MBO at cher Joe Bates.

15:16 Yes, yeah, with her problems. And offering a ride and that type of thing. And earlier this I showed that he was a small truck mechanic. He was a truck mechanic at the Lenen Company. He was very well versed in mechanics and how to disable a vehicle. I'm sure if you can fix one, you can disable one ten times easier. So this one is the Kathleen John's information. It says early in the evening of March twenty second, nineteen seventy, Kathleen Johns twenty three, was driving her infant daughter, Jennifer, on Highway one thirty two in San Wiquing County, several miles west of Modesto. And I remember the one of the letters from dB Cooper came out of Modesto using the Modesto B for cutouts.

15:57 Right, wasn't she way to Santa Rosa? I you know, and there's so many stories. This is just what we know is was on his site at least up to that point, because. For Modesto, that's the highway you would take to get the Beayar to hit one oh one, which would go up to Santa Rosa. I'm pretty sure I think she was supposed to be going to visit a sister or family or something. Most and I think it was in Santa Rosa. Okay, so she said, it says several miles west of Modesto when a man in a light colored American car started honking his horn and blinking his lights at her. Driving alongside her car. He said that one of her wheels was wabbling and volunteered to fix it. He followed her as she pulled over at Bird Road, a turn off just west of Interstate five, then got out with a lug wrench and pretended to tighten the nuts on her car on her right rear wheel. In fact, he removed them, and when John's tried to drive off, the whole wheel spun loose again.

16:52 The man offered to help, this time in the form of a ride to a nearby service station. She accepted, and they continued in the man's car west one thirty two until he pulled into a Richfield station at Chrismin Road. It was closed, and there followed an hour and a half of more silent and apparently aimless driving through the city of Tracy and its rural environs. As they passed occasional other service stations. She asked a few times, what's wrong with this station? Or why can't we go into that station, to which he replied that it was not the right one. A police report states that she said she was very scared of this man, did not want to get out, but did not tell him to stop the vehicle or letter out.

17:35 Miss Johns soon. Realized that the stranger wasn't taking her to any service station and asked him if he was always went around helping people like this. The man responded that by the time I get through with them, they won't need my help. Wow, that'd be an awfully. Scary thing to hear as a woman sitting there with an infant in my lap. From time to time he would slow down as if he were about to pull over, and then he would speed up again. He stopped the car short at a stop sign, and John's took the opportunity to escape. She held her baby tightly and jumped from the car, running across the nearby field and up an embankment. Where she hid in the shadows. The man turned his head lights off, moved his car a few feet, and waited silently without leaving the car.

18:18 After about five minutes, he had turned his lights back on and drove away. Now this is where this is where Voight then is going. To throw in that ounce of mystery and what the heck and is this really But he goes on to say when she made it to the local police station in Patterson, she recognized the man who had sabotaged her wheel as the man in the composite sketch of the Zodiac which appeared in a wanted poster that hung prominently in the office. So mind you, she's looking at the composite drawing from Officer Folk from SFPD in the presidio murder of Paul Steine because he actually stopped and spoke to the Zoe. The death sergeant, perhaps terrified at the prospect of a confrontation.

19:06 With a villain on the level of Doctor Octopus. Or the Joker, had John's wait alone in a nearby cafe for several hours until her car could be returned. The sergeant broadcast the car's last known location, and a Stantaslauc County Sheriff's deputy found it thoroughly burned and still smoldering. The abductor had returned to the car and set it on fire, destroying everything inside. Now he says, miss Yeah, now, he says. Miss John's accounts of the Knight's events have varied over the years and differed from the interview to interview. The most dramatic version and most familiar is the one described in Robert grayce Smith's Zodiac, which is as the man overtly threatening both the woman and her baby and getting out of. His car with a flashlight.

19:47 After her escape in the late nineteen nineties, after identifying two different and dissimilar men as their rebductor, John's admitted that she couldn't even remember if she had been legally married at the time, and that her memory could not be trusted to make a case against any fati kill her suspect. Okay, did she go on to drugs after this? Like? What would have caused her to? Or did she get poison? Yeah? Right? And and it and I like, the most dramatic version and the most familiar is the one described in Robert Graysmith's book. Well, we know he hasn't been telling the truth, and he's writing the book to sensationalize the story. And to sell and to sell books.

20:30 So who is to say that that he didn't write it? The way he wanted to write it, since it is pseudo fiction. So I thought that was extremely interesting that. Of course, once they they determined or once they tell the story, which she did flat out. When she got into the. Police department, every bit of research I've ever seen says she pointed straight to the wanted poster and said, that's the man who abducted me. Yep, you just spent an hour and a half in the car with him. It's not thirty years after the fact that she walked in and pointed him out. She did this immediately after having been abducted and gotten. Away, so I would save her her coach, or her her view or her identification at the time it happened at that moment, you know.

21:19 And she wasn't in the middle of being stabbed or shot where it could be. Oh, I'm sketchy, and I just don't know what's going on. I'm sure she was scared, don't get me wrong, but she obviously wasn't in a terrified position where her life was at stake where she could have made these type of mistakes. She had an hour and a half to stare at this man. That's crazy, all right. So now we're going to get to some of these hoax letters. And this is interesting because you know, we've been talking about these crack proof letters for quite some time, where you know, they're trying to say they were a hoax, or they were copycats, or they were forgeries by Tashi or like whatever they were. He gets into some of these things. This one is going to be the Exorcist, but they were originally dismissed as a hoax. Certain phrases from this car to repeat it and later confirmed Zodiac.

22:05 Letters, particular craft Proof, which. Would appear in a letter to the Los Angeles Times five months later. The juxtaposition of the letters FK also repeat in the zodiac literature, frequently in the two long ciphers, and also in the hieroglyph that closes The Exorcist in nineteen seventy four. And if you've seen that, a lot of people have kind of related the hieroglyph that's in the Exorcist letter to be a symbol that was found on a soy sauce bottle that one of the victims from the Santa Rosa area or the Highway one oh one murders and stuff had actually had in her possession.

22:47 So it made been a link and that might have been one of the clues. To attach to it. And the exorcist letter is talking about the thirteenth victim at this point, so it's right after Donna Lass. The other Aleen sent October twenty seventh, was a customized Halloween greeting card, and it was addressed personally to Paul Avery at the Chronicle, though his name was this spelled on the envelope as Averlely. Inside the envelope, written twice very lightly in the shape of an X, was the comment sorry no cipher. In addition to signing the card with a Z and the customary cross circle, the zodiac drew an unusual symbol also used as a return address on the envelope, the thirteen eyes and the message peek a boo you are doomed. It is the message that's on the inside of the card. Kathleen John's, the woman abducted on Highway one thirty two, received a similar card.

23:37 I never knew this. Yeah, well, and that's what makes it so zodiac like, right. He doesn't just send one, he sends two or three. I wouldn't be surprised if there were others. It says she received a similar card, ostensibly from the Zodiac at about the same time. Would she ford to Avery? Why did she send it to Avery? What in the world but which Avery claims he never received, Of course she did. John's attributes the card to a crank, since her name and address appeared in the newspaper shortly after her abduction, but the timing of the card and description that she gave of it suggests the strong possibility that it was genuine and somehow lost in the.

24:21 Cases see of details. Isn't that so polite? Something nice? The way he said that? Right? The CARDI Avery was widely considered a thread on his life, and the Chronicle ran a front page story about it on October thirty. First. Among the male that this generated was an anonymous letter from Riverside urging Avery to investigate a link with the still unsolved Batesburner. Next to nothing that has been written about its author, and no photograph of the letter has been published, but Grace Smiths transcribes. It in the Zodiac books. I might have to take a look and see if I can find that. In his books. I think eventually Avery came to believe that they were that Bates was a zodiac situation.

25:08 Oh yeah, he's the one that went down and triggered the two different departments between San Francisco and Riverside to have this meeting. And we've seen the Foyer information in which case they stated both law law enforcement departments stated that it was exactly the same person that is doing both things. There's so many the. Triplicate form of communications, the carbon copies of the confession letter, the using it looks like a number two, but it is definitely it can be related to. A z as well at the bottom of these communications. So and he points it out himself when he says, I have a hell of a lot more down there. So that letter to the La Times in regards to his Riverside activity, he tells you that he has bifurcated the number of victims and he considers Zodiac to be something separate even though he's taking claim for Riverside. Way of saying there's a hell of a lot more down there, tells us that he's not including all of those numbers in the communications that he's currently sending.

26:09 As the zodiac. Right, So it says please forward the contents of this letter to the detected in charge the Zodiac murder case. I hope this information will also Oh, this is the transcribing. We don't have to go to Greece Smith's book. This is what this letter supposedly says. Please forward the contents of this letter to detective in charge of the Zodiac murder case. I hope this information. Oh no, I'm sorry. I think this is. The letter that caused him to link the Riverside and go talk to Riverside versus the letter that the Zodiac purportedly wrote. Started over one more ten. Please forward the contents of this letter to the detective in charge of the Zodiac murder case. I hope this information will also help you, as we would both like to see this case solved. As for myself, I wish to remain anonymous, and I know that you will understand why.

26:58 I feel like this is literally written by Jack, not an anonymous person. Yeah perhaps, yeah, well we've got the words remaining anonymous, and he says in Tim Millers he says, in Tim Miller's finale letter, the you know anonymous killer, basically the unknown, And now that I've given my information, why is it still a secret? But he also says, understand, understand understand. You see this in many of the communications, so to see that in this first line, I was just like, oh gosh, I think this is. Him, right. But also it's curious to say the detective in charge of the Zodiac murder case, well, San Francisco. There was only one Zodiac burd in San Francisco that was Paul Starring.

27:41 There were three in the Balathough area, and so why would the San Francisco be the one in charge. They kind of usurped it, and an FBI kind of came in too and just stifle everything. Yeah, yes, well, I think because the intentions for them. The newspaper that was going to be making this money was the Hearst Corporation. Now I was at Chronicles Hurst, the examiner was was Hearst. But they were connectively sharing information back and forth and both producing the same stuff. And hers was syndicated throughout the country, so it was everywhere. So right, right, Well, a few it says a few years ago in Riverside, California, a young girl was murdered just about I believe on Halloween evening. I could write a much longer letter citing the similarities between Zodiac's case and this murder which occurred in Riverside. But if the police department cannot see said comparative similarities between these two cases, then I will take a slow boat to China.

28:43 Even if these two crimes. Were committed by two different people, I think, after all the facts are studied regarding both of the cases. If police have not already investigated these possibilities and are not already aware of the Riverside case, then even so perhaps they should look into it. So some of these words even perhaps apps and rather and what did I just see the other one? After all the facts are studied regarding both of these k okay, I lost it. But some of the some of the words that that are being used in here is the type of linguistics we were hearing from the Zodiac killer letters to the newspapers similar erratic printing. Find out about these two different cases. Give Captain Cross a call on the phone.

29:31 He knows that I do not quit. Wooo. That to me is the statement of more and more and more so has he been long since writing Captain Cross of the Riverside PD Because he's indicating that this guy knows he doesn't quit. So how many anonymous letters can you send it before you're figured out as to who you are sending them. Also, I think it's a really weird coincidence that Brian hartnelled one of the victims that bury Essa, ended up living in Riverside. Yeah, that is a terrible coincidence. Well, these days we don't have very many real coincidences. So, yeah, a lawyer or I'd probably retired now, but he became a lawyer and I called him lawyer, lawyer, and he would not respond.

30:21 Yeah, we just wanted him to listen to Jack's voice. That's it. It would have been a simple task either a yeay or name. So it goes on to say, mister Avery, I will give you a call in the near future. Please look into the case. The Riverside Police have a wealth of information, so does San Francisco. Let us hope that they are not too proud to work together, and if they already are, let us hope that there has been an exchange of information. After locating it a. Year old letter from the Riverside Chief of Police to a Napa County detective that had similarly linked the Bates murder with the Zodiac, Avery visited the Riverside police, reviewed their evidence and instigated a meeting between their detectives and detectives from Solano, Napa, and San Francisco counties, who compared notes and agreed that there was a definite link.

31:09 A definite link. I want everybody to remember. That as they try to bifrecate these cases now these days and san that Jerry Joe Bates was not part of this a definite link. For them to say that they may not have told us what it was, but for them to say it. Means they found a definite link. Between the Bates murders and the Zodiac crimes and that they were most likely committed by the same man. State handwriting analyst Sherwood Moral checked the writing on the desk and envelopes against samples of the known Zodiac writing and found that they were unquestionably from the same hand. And I found the same thing. Who I just got goosebumps on over Mabatte. I found the same thing doing the examination.

31:51 The Riverside story broke on November sixteenth, nineteen seventy, when Avery's article was printed in the Chronicle. And they are closed at the Bates murder site that linked back to the San Diego. Murders right, there's there's going to be something they haven't told us all this while. Yeah, there's a there's clues at every scene, I'm pretty sure, including the wing Walkers. I mean, if you committed one crime in in San Diego with the what was that the Domingus and Edwards case in in Santa Barbara at the at the beach and then the swindles, and we see these. Air sit domus are like the yeah, yeah.

32:32 The military walkers they were they were the military wing Walkers were found at the Edwards Domingus site, found at the Sherry Joe Bates site, and found at the Lake Berriesa site. So we have cross connectivity. If you were a killer trying not to get caught or be known for all these murders, you're certainly not going to put on the same shoes you killing every time, all right. A review of certain zodiac documents seemed to indicate. What's that it don't fit? You must have quit, Yes you did. Because yeah, always whatever. They found his schuprits at the Burder site, but just because of the glove, because it was all shrunken up and it didn't fit, it was not a good idea. They have him tried on, but they did.

33:21 I'm sorry, I've never seen somebody try to put a glove on like this. You go like this, sin, you wiggle your lil hands and. Nope, he's over there trying to cram this thing on a full fledged turkey tail. A review of certain Zodiac documents seems to indicate a plan to take credit for the Bates murder eventually, and the possibility that he himself wrote the anonymous letter cannot be discounted. So now here's where he grows in the mystery and the confusion and the disinformation. In the pencard of November nineteen sixty nine, he hints that the police will be getting some bad news in a while, and in the Mount Dievila letter of June nineteen seventy he announces that he is hidden a bomb and that you have until next ball to dig it up. While the Zodiac never followed through with any of his bomb threats, the November addition to his body count had much the same effect.

34:16 Even the map that accompanied. That letter bore the year of bates death and its brand name. In Phillips sixty six, doesn't. One of the ciphers give a clue as to where potentially the bomb was and didn't we try to check the chicked it out. Supposely off of Green Valley Road, right by the junction of six eighty and eighty. There was there was one that he indicated. It was a short, very short cipher. It was twenty some characters long. I know it wasn't the Z thirteen because the Z thirteen was the my name is cipher. So it was like a Z twenty something or other and it supposedly gave and if it did give a location, it was probably the bomb that he was about to draw by saying you're going to be getting bad news soon.

35:01 Is that he had done this stuff in other locations, right. But the area it led to was right by, you know, not far from Vallejo. It was. Yet, you're absolutely right, because Harriet and I actually made that trip to look at. The Lake Kerman Road, which is right down in six eighty. Yes, so we went to Lake Herman Road. We noted that they had a phone. They still had a phone booth there the last time her and I went. It had not been taken down and is still there, and I'm sure that it's still active. If you know the right buttons to push. But it's not an operating telephone obviously, where you can throw some change in and make a phone call.

35:42 But we we visited both Lake Herman Roads. We've visited the area right off of Green Valley Road on eighty that we thought that this mapped back to, and they had literally when they reconstructed a proper overpass, because this used to be one of those simple, very rural right like out off of seventy and ninety nine where you could cross the freeway on a stop sign, and that's, you know, pretty much unheard of. On most major freeways, you've got overpasses and underpasses that take you on and off in different directions. And this particular overpass that was being built to cross over on Green Valley, they had demolished and destroyed all of the cement and freeway material and piled it right on the location that we thought we would go and find something. So we couldn't even search the ground at this point because it looked to me like they were building that up in order to make the mound to create the overpass. So boom, that area is covered and done.

36:42 Picture yeah, yeah, yeah. Furthermore, the letter E is represented by seven cipher characters in the. Three crickogram of July nineteen sixty nine and. For for years of for those of you that do not know the more, a single leg can be represented by a symbol. So if you take six symbols and they're all ease, then it's harder to decode, because if you used one symbol for E, being the largest used letter in the English language, you would easily be able to then deconstruct the cipher, like the Hardens did on the three part cipher. So by using six symbols for the letter E, he didn't have to duplicate any of the ease for us to be able to determine the word between or c or you know, these type of words that would allow us to decode the rest of it.

37:36 Of these characters, the last four are a plus one now. They also said in one of the recent documentaries for the Zodiac, where they claim to have solved the three forty cipher, they indicated that they believed that the sign off the last couple symbols in that were the sign off of the actual individual. And if you look at the last site, the last sign off, it is actually the I say the monogram for Jack or j W Terrence, and if you look at it, it absolutely can be made into it. It's what you would do if you wanted to monogram your own initials. They figure out a way to encompash all three of your initials into one symbol.

38:18 And then the plus one is I think because Jack is a junior. So JW T plus one is junior to. Me, So it makes sense. And it still follows along with my suspect, which also seems to elude the uncredited first murder. The official position of the Riverside Police Department and many independent investigators of nineteen ninety eight is that Sherry Joe Bates. Was not a Zodiac victim. So we'll get them go already. Yeah they are, they aren't, they are, they aren't. RPD maintains a local man as their suspect. That's bloney. The local man was her boyfriend who eventually returned ten years later. They did DNA testing and found it wasn't consistent with the DNA on her body.

39:03 So even though I'm. Reading aspect, but he didn't do it. He didn't do it, and considers the Zodiac murders entirely unrelated. Thank you for putting that in there. No, I didn't. That's the first I heard that. Did Riverside police. I thought all alone? They thought for sure, Yes, it's probably Zoiet they did. There is unquestionably files later. Yeah, there's FBI files that they did. They discuss it. The chief of police came out and said, we have made a connection between these and the Zodiac cases. Right, so this is just more. This is more. What's that? This is from Voight's website.

39:43 Yeah, so you can see how these. Just putting it out there. It's contradictory, really completely confusion, more confusion. Oh yeah. The next letter came after uncharacteristics, uncharacteristically long five months silence, posted on March twenty second, nineteen seventy one, with two upside down six cent stamps. It was the only letter the Zodiac ever sent to the Los Angeles Times, and it was the first to be sent from outside San Francisco. It had been postmarking pleasant in fifteen miles of the East Bay. Now, yes, so that's where this gets That's where this gets interesting because Dennison actually put together the fact that Jack and Danny Reynolds, Jack's second wife, had gotten into some trouble and on March twenty second, nineteen seventy one. I believe that's when Danny Reynolds went to Cya.

40:42 So we're going to see a spell where the zodiac just goes missing for about three years. And this is the entire time that Danny Reynolds is in Cya. And when Danny. Reynolds is released, Jack is actually the one that picks him up, brings him back to South Lake Tahoe to live with his new Familyaura and Dennis and Mary and the kids. You know, like, who does this sou picks up a step son. And technically, at this time when that happens, I want to say, it's roughly nineteen seventy four, Jack isn't even legitimately divorced from his mother yet, so Doris Reynolds is still married to Jack. Unbeknownst to Jack, Jack's married Nora. Their their marriage gets annulled, and we see that, we see that Doris Reynolds has to refile for a second divorce.

41:29 So there's a whole lot of what the heck is going on around here with these people. So the next letter came yep after that with da da da da oh in the Pleasant and it's on your way, Pleasanton is on your way to Cya. Yeah, Jack used to live in San Jose for a while too, Right and six eighty goes to San Jose. It was Pleasanton and uh in ses Mal Diablo red Diablo's right there in the center bone and that's Mecca. Yes, it's a neat little web. So this letter that came out on March twenty second, nineteen seventy one said this is the Zodiac speaking like I've always said, I am crack proof.

42:14 If the Blue. Meetings are ever going to catch me, they have best get off their fat asses and do something, because the longer they fiddle and fart around Texas Reference, the more slaves I will I will collect for my afterlife. I do not give, I do not have to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity. But they are only finding the easy ones. They're a hell of a lot more down there. The reason I'm writing this to the Times is this. They don't bury me on the back pages like some of the others. SFPD zero cross circle, which is the zodiac symbol, and it says minus seventeen plus. So again, this whole notion of is it less or is it more. We're going to keep you guessing.

42:58 A week later, he sent another host card to Paul Avery, again misspelled as Avery at the Chronicle. This one was decorated with a sketch of condominium complex that had been under development at Incline Village, Nevada, near Lake Tahoe by the Boise Cascade Corporation doing business as Boise Inner Lake between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen seventy. The same picture had appeared in the Chronicle three days earlier. And I'm not sure why he's repeating this unless it was sent again. Because ago and just a third that's Inclines at north Shore. It's actually right state learned by the casinos. Right the Sinatra side. Baby, Yes, he.

43:40 Was at the Diplomat Hotel. Well everything, And. This particular card he's talking about is the Donna Lass card for her having gone missing. So and he says, he says twelve victims at this particular time. So why this came chronologically again afters we just saw that this last letter said minus seventeen plus. So why are we seeing this again? I tried to go to the Jake work pines. I don't believe. Well, maybe I ended up. We'll see when we get there, but says a week later he sent another postcard to Paul Avery. Okay, yeah, the Lasa's skull was started off a highway e though, even though she went missing off of south from Salashore, which is off of fifty.

44:27 So that's another interesting weird. The dogs also hit so Lauren Swerringham had actually worked with Harriet based on Jack's decoding or ciphering that Dennis had described to her, and they located a location up off of fifty and they took the people from that documentary that I was just talking about, and they did a cadaver search with dogs, and the dogs hit on something, but they never were capable, supposedly of actual digging anything up, which might indicate that that's where her body originally laid and then was moved after the fact. And I think that we talked a little bit in the research that there was some inclination that the Zodiac was told to move the body or he indicated he moved the body.

45:15 Maybe this was one of Harriet's you know, ciphersolves or something. I don't Yeah, I think that Harriet did have that that thought. Through a saw and yes, and then it. And then the next link that Lauren Sweeringham showed after this particular stopping point at in the Placerville area is that it then rounded its way back up the backside of Lake Tahoe to the to the eighty and twenty, which is exactly where her skull had been found I think in nineteen eighty six, but it wasn't tested for DNA and found to be hers until what twenty. Four, twenty twenty four? Yeah, I think, yeah, so interesting, Yeah, that her school was found exactly where this man ciphered it. So is this man also privy to information we're unaware of? I not, or Jack is the one that created these ciphers, and based on Harriet's knowledge from Dennis and corroboration with Lauren Sweeringam, they actually were able to locate the precise point in which her remains would be.

46:17 Found just years later. I mean, obviously this is happening in like twenty thirteen, somewhere around there in twenty. Fourteen, Okay, so. The same picture it appeared in the Chronicle three days earlier in an advertisement for the complex known as Forest Pines, but it was called the Sierra Card. So I'm still a little confused as to why we're back and forth, unless it's just that the Sierra Club is that society we're talking about in Forced Pines is the establishment where the elite members were allowed to go and stay. Because you got to remember, a brand new. Condo association in South Lake tah isn't going to be for your average motel user. Hotel user right right to be expensive there it.

47:02 Is, sorry, Inclines, pretty ritzy. Right one? Ritzi here is that actual? This is I think the insert that was in the newspaper and this came off. Oh so I was able to look up the Jake work Pines. So when I went to that link, it takes me back on wayback machine. It shows me with these dark lines and red lines. How many times this approximately? If I could get this to work right here, it would tell me how many times this image has been looked at, like way. Back even right? Yes, yeah, so Forest Pines at Incline Lake Tahoe's finest new condominiums include.

47:45 Village something or other. I'm not sure what all right, it looks like, Oh well, it looks like we're down to our last couple of minutes. This might be a good place to stop as we talk about the Wayback machine. But it's an Internet archive, and why they have taken this down I don't know. And this obviously I must have ran on February twenty second of twenty nineteen, and that's when I collected all this information before way Back went away. Is there anything you guys would like to add? Is we just kind of round out these last minute? Well, I think it's definitely an ideata cut back and look at these things to see if we can dig a little bit on the Wayback Machine. We know when we have tom because we could find some other things too that were not previously there.

48:33 You know, Well, these are the links. The only reason why I think these are bringing me back to way Back if I try to go to way Back, like. I said, it for whatever reason, maybe it was having. A bad day, but it wouldn't allow me to go in there and use an actual URL to check the archive. But these are links from the information I actually took off of Tom Boyd's website. So when I click on the link, it takes me back to way Back. But like I said, I can't actively use way Back to my knowledge, but I haven't tried to do it ever. Since the last time it said no, go Yeah, We'll see when we get there, I suppose. Anyways, I think that's pretty much about all we have for today, so we will pick back up. We still have many slides to go, much more information to check out, and I wish everybody a happy weekend. I want to thank both of you for being here. You have a wonderful, wonderful Friday, yeah and weekend.

49:30 Take care of