Nov. 1, 2024

Where’s Zodiac Jack?

Where’s Zodiac Jack?

Following the OCCK and last Minnesota murders, Jack up and leaves Cotton, MN. Headed to Texas with family in tow. We will finish off the Girl Scout murders in Oklahoma where we left of last week. Jack has proximity with Oklahoma and it appears the...

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Following the OCCK and last Minnesota murders, Jack up and leaves Cotton, MN. Headed to Texas with family in tow. We will finish off the Girl Scout murders in Oklahoma where we left of last week. Jack has proximity with Oklahoma and it appears the suspect is looking for someone in particular. New communications from the Zodiac after nearly 4 years are sluffed off as fakes, and even the media is commenting on Zodiac’s absence.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Road, Jack Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome to the show today, Nolan del Campo,

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Good morning, everybody, Good morning, and Harriet Souchet.

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Yes, good morning again.

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Good morning.

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It's going to be a great show.

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It will be so. In the top of the topics

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these days, obviously, is the election that is coming up.

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And while I won't deal with politics, I'll definitely have

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some conversations about some of the measures. Have you guys

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voted yet? Are you voting by mail or in person?

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Oh?

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I voted by mail.

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I did too, So I had myself some confusion because

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there was a couple measures on the ballot for repairing schools,

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and one was statewide, one was more local. In the

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same one unified school district, And I thought to myself, like,

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why are they doubling down on us? Wasn't the lottery

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and two percent of those proceeds supposed to be going

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to schools? Whatever happened to that? Is that just like

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a misnomer that nobody pays attention to anymore, because I'm

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pretty sure there's millions, if not billions of dollars going

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through that system. Yes, mismanagement, yeah, absolutely, when maybe people

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even forgot that that was kind of the gist of

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California accepting the lottery, And I remember it plain as

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day from back in the day when they said they

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were going to bring it into.

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The well, I mean, it was the benefit of the schools.

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So so where is this money going to? Is my question?

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Go ahead, Harriet Well.

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I was going to say, I remember it was designed

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to make people feel not guilty for gambling, that it

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was such a good thing, was going for the schools.

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Right, huh? Well, now I question that since they're hitting

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us up for more money, and I think something like

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was it a ten billion dollar bond or something that

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they were asking for that we were gonna, as Americans,

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have to pay back five hundred million a year for

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thirty to forty years.

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I say no to all of the lacking and common

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sense propositions.

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Okay, so let's talk about the other lacking in common sense,

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the uh making clean water. I think we talked about

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this on the podcast a few months ago where we

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were talking about ask to mouth water where they're literally

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going to take in recycle. I'm not kidding, Nolan Jan.

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You can chime in on this if you would like.

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But this already exists in place like Texas. They're attempting

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to bring it here to California. And if you don't

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read that measure if thoroughly for what it's worth, they

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are literally talking about chemically treating toilet water to make

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it drinkable. I'm a little to know.

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A big no because the reason of the health insanitation.

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The long story is one year of health and sanitation

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and business management before I got back into McDonald's the

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fast food place, and then every day we practice health

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and sanitation. Trust me, that is a big fat no.

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There are reasons why you use it for your lawns

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or something else. You do not try to reconstitute it

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into something for your system. No, no, no, Well.

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It's just more chemicals they're putting into our bodies. Wan

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says California's greywater coat is found in Chapter fifteen of

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the California Plumbing Code as of twenty seventeen. Previously, it

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was in Chapter sixteen. Under the current code, washing machine

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systems can be constructed without a permit in single family

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homes one or two units, so long as thirteen guidelines

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are followed see below. Other types of systems require permit

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in the state. So obviously they're asking for voters to

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go ahead and approve this this particular measure, And what

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I read it to mean is that they're going to

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literally be recycling water and who knows if it's gray water.

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I just my brother sent me a text some months

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ago saying, I hear California is getting asked to mouthwater.

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I'm like, what, there's already gray water. It's prevalent, like

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golf courses use it and different things like that. It's

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used for I think my buddy had a hot dub

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and he used graywater for his hot dub because the

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temperature is hot enough.

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I don't know, no, no, no, no, there is never hot.

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It was graywater. It's different than wastewater. It's not it's

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so wet.

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But there's still float around in that water. There's reasons

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why they're going to put all those chemicals to try

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to kill all those Germans word try. That's why there's

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you know, still one percent or war is going to

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cause problems.

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Chemicals themselves, the chemicals, and then your skin is the

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largest organ on your body. So bless your friend's heart

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for wanting to submerge himself into his water. One says yes,

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California allows the recycling clean of gray water for non

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plotable uses such as irrigating landscapes and flushing toilets and urinals.

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Graywater is wastewater from bathtub showers, washing machines, and other

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sources that haven't come into contact with toilet waste. But

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what does that mean in the eck with the as

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to mouth part is what they're doing, I think so well.

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And there was some talk quite some time ago about

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being able to recycle salt water and remove the salinity

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from it so that we could use that as a

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plausible water source. And I feel like that the companies

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that were capable of doing this got shut down, but

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would be great in the LA area.

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Yeah, all right, One more measure, Let Leonardo DiCaprio drink

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the poop and pea water.

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He's reaching us.

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Don't say that about Leonardo, I actually but I actually

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got to see him in one of his filmings with

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Sean Penn and the movie hasn't come out yet, but

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he's much bigger in person than I ever believed he

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was on screen.

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That was short.

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I'm going to move on from that. The other measure

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was the the unconstitutional slavery of prison inmates. The individuals

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are yeah, involuntary service, dude, like these people are mad

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they're being made to work for their keep. I just

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don't get it. That was a big, fat note too.

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I'm sorry.

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To be busy.

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You're gonna be locked of why just rotten sell when

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I get outside molaan or something?

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Right, And don't they received some type of a go ahead, Harriet.

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Sorry, I just wanted to say real quick, that's a

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part of paying your debt back to society. And then

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they earn a few cents or a few bucks on

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the side for their cigarettes or whatever.

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Okay, yeah tiny, yeah sums like two dollars a day

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or stuff like that.

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Well they're getting something on Yeah, they're getting something on

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top of their their care. They have a place to

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sleep at night. They never have to worry about laying

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in a gutter or under a bridge. They have food,

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albeit maybe not the greatest food, but they're still getting

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something in their belly every single day. They have to

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be supplied with toilet paper and hygiene products and clothing

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and washing their clothes, all these things that many people

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don't even or aren't even capable of taking for granted

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that are living on the streets. So yeh, big fat.

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Now anyways, all right, let's move on back to the Zodia.

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We left off last week on the Girl Scout birders,

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and I left off at the point where it said,

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shortly after the discovery of the bodies of the Girl Scouts,

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Governor David Bourne ordered a task force of Oklahoma State

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Bureau of Investigation agents and highway troopers to assist the

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Maze County authorities in the investigation. Governor Bourne also led

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hounds from Pennsylvania to help track down the killer or

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killers of the three little Girl Scouts. I wanted to

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bring up a mention that we are talking about right now,

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Jack Terrence leaving Cotton, Minnesota, and of course we know

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that his track record is to leave before he brings

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the family to go hunt out a house. So I

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say that based on proximity of Oklahoma and Texas, which

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we know that not only does Jack have proximity in

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a po box in the eighties, at least in nineteen

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eighty when he is inherited or a beneficiary to a will,

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they are listing a peo box for him in Oklahoma.

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So I have no idea how long he'd had this

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peo box. Dennis said that he used to go to

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this particular peo box and obtain marijuana that he could

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then sell, so he was definitely still working within the Yeah,

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the realm of drugs and everything else. I see you

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laughing over there, Nolan, but I like.

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It a lot of biggs.

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He was into a lot of things, so this could

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be and because of proximity and from Minnesota back down

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to Texas, if Jack was officially scouting out a new

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place to take the family, he would have been on

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his own while he was doing this. So it says

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three days after the brutal slains, the hunt for evidence

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moved less than a mile west of Camp Scott to

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the one hundred and ten acre ranch of fifty eight

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year old Jack Shroff. The hunt moved because the bloodhounds

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led the lawman to his home and pond. Lawman searched

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for a murder weapon and other possible evidence. During the search,

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officers found a roll of black duct tape and rope

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that the evidence matched the items found on the three

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Little Girl Scouts owner of the farm. Several rocks, a

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tired tool, and a crowbar were discovered at the ram,

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but the items were not connected with the slains. Detectives

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found a footprint that matched the print in the death

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tent at Camp Scott. Mister Shroft submitted to a light

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detector test and passed. Camp director Barbara Day said she

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knew that the camp had received several threatening notes. I

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want to see these notes. This is these are the

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things that we look for in these crimes. So maybe

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we can start doing a search for these notes, Harriet,

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and see what we find. The notes claim that four

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little girls would be killed. Also, she said the camp

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had been burglarized several weeks before the camp opened, but

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she never considered the notes for the burglaries to be serious.

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Now I only want to bring this up in regards

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to John Benny Ramsay because there were items found in

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the family home in Charlevoi and Michigan, which we know

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that Jack has a picture of the nuclear power plant

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billboard which is five miles from Charletboy, Michigan, and it's

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actually in the power plant is actually in charlet Boy,

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but it specifically says five miles ahead. So he's taken

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a picture of this particular billboard during snow time for

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whatever reason. So this may possibly be another one of

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his entrances of exits. But not only was the house

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supposedly broken into, and items such as rope and what

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was left in the Charlotte Boy house.

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Do you recall, Harriet just a lit, a good jurors

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and tape, that's all I can. I think that's all. Yeah.

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So this did happen inside the home while they were gone,

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so we do see this break in. We know that

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there was a note left behind, or at least a

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ransom note, quite like the Susan Dagnan another six year

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old little girl, where a ransom note that was never

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intended to be a ransom note because the little girl

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was already dead. So there were some consistencies in here,

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and that's what made me put this into the presentation.

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It says the task force polygraphed many suspects in all past.

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Also Ben Woodward, ranger and custodian at Camp Scott, was polygraphed.

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He passed on June twenty fourth, Local county and state

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lawman law launched a massive air and ground search, although

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Lawman would not say how they linked their investigation to

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00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.320
the prime suspect. They looked for a convicted rapist, Jean

225
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.240
Leroy Hart. Kelly I had in parentheses here, so I'm

226
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.360
not sure why. Mays County authorities charged Heart with three

227
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.279
separate counts of first degree murdering connection with the brutal

228
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:23.879
slayings of Lori Lee Farmer, Michelle Goose, and Doris Denise Milner.

229
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:27.919
Jean Leroy Hart was convicted on October fourteenth, nineteen sixty six,

230
00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:30.879
on two counts of first degree rape and kidnapping. On

231
00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:34.000
March sixteenth, nineteen sixty nine, Heart was parolled from the

232
00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:38.039
Granite State Penitentiary. He was sent to McAllister State Penitentiary,

233
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.960
where he would serve forty to one hundred and forty

234
00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:43.759
years on a charge of rape, two counts of kidnapping,

235
00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.679
and two counts of burdlary. So if he got let's

236
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:51.000
see here, one hundred and forty years on this charge

237
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.799
in nineteen sixty nine, how does he become a victor?

238
00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:58.679
A suspect, says. In nineteen seventy three, Jean Leroy Hert

239
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.360
and two other oh prisoners hecks on their way out

240
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:04.360
of the Maze County jail. Lohman found the other two prisoners,

241
00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.399
but Heart, a Locust Grove native, had remained free since

242
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.240
the jail break. Even though he was convicted rapist, no

243
00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.720
one looked for him. While at the Maze County jail,

244
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.639
Heart had been waiting a post conviction hearing. So here

245
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.120
we again have a rapist and kidnapper. But that doesn't

246
00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.120
necessarily mean that he's a killer. And does the handwriting

247
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:27.840
matches there? We need to ask that. On June twenty fourth,

248
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.720
nineteen seventy seven, Locus Grove natives spotted a man who

249
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.080
resembled Heart running from a cave near where the three

250
00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.559
girls scouts had been slaying. Let's talk about caves, Harriet.

251
00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.519
Yeah, the Zodiac cave in Lake County that's been plugged

252
00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:43.360
up as soon as they found stuff in there, like

253
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.879
newspapers and all kinds of.

254
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:46.759
Stuff, are pals and everything.

255
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:49.639
Yes, they plugged up everything.

256
00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.600
And Jack actually it had indicated that there was a

257
00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:55.720
particular point in time when he didn't have a place

258
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:59.840
to live, that he was actually living in caves. So

259
00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.799
would be the one that would be the ones. So

260
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:05.320
it says he was supposedly armed with a twenty and

261
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.919
running from the cave. Yeah, with a twenty gage shotgun

262
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.240
and a twenty two caliber rifle. He had supposedly stolen

263
00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:15.559
these guns from Jack Shroff's farm at the local At

264
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.480
the cave, local county and state lawman searched for Jean

265
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:21.039
Leroy Hart. The lawman searching in the wooded area had

266
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.919
thousands of ticks crawling on them. When they got inside

267
00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.600
the cave, lawman found no ticks. The lawman's theory was

268
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.279
that Hart had used Indian medicine to ward them off.

269
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:33.120
On a cave wall, lawman found a written message. It

270
00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.399
was said that the person who killed the girl Scouts

271
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:37.759
had been living in the cave since the murders. The

272
00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.759
person who wrote the message called the lawman fools. Oh

273
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.840
my gosh, you guys, We guys love to see that

274
00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.559
wall message I would love to see all these messages.

275
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.919
And this was of course for Wikipedia, so we're gonna

276
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.240
be And this was back in twenty thirteen, so who

277
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.639
knows if it's been updated since. The Oklahoma Girl Scout

278
00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.600
murders is an unresolved crime in rural County, Oklahoma. On

279
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.519
a rainy, late spring night in nineteen seventy seven, three

280
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.159
girls age eight, nine and ten were raped and murdered

281
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.080
in their bodies left in the woods near their tent

282
00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.159
at a summer camp. Although the case was classified as

283
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.240
solid when Jean Leroy Hart, a local jail escapee with

284
00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.639
a history of violence, was arrested and stood trial for

285
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:21.759
the crime, he was acquitted. Look at that go figure.

286
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.240
Thirty years later, authorities conducted a new DNA new DNA testing,

287
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.759
but the results of these proved inconclusive as the samples

288
00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.279
were too old the history. In nineteen seventy seven, Camp

289
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.759
Scott was in its forty ninth years, a keystone of

290
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:41.240
the Tulsa based Magic Empire Girls Scout Council. Situated along

291
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.080
the confluence of Snake Creek and Spring Creek near State

292
00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.919
Highway eighty two. The four hundred and ten acre compound

293
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:52.960
was located between Luke and Talaqui. Jean Leroy Hart had

294
00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.200
been at large since escaping four years earlier from Mays

295
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.799
County Jail. He had been convicted of raping and kidnapping

296
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:03.120
two pregnant women. He's raping women, not children, as well

297
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.319
as four counts of first degree Burglary. Heart was raised

298
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.000
about a mile from Camp Scott. Less than two months

299
00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:12.519
before the murders. During an on site training session, a

300
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.480
camp counselor found her belongings ransacked, her donuts were stolen,

301
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:20.279
and inside the empty donut box was a disturbing handwritten note.

302
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.440
The author vowed to murder three campers, so it went

303
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.519
from four to three. But here we have more notes again,

304
00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.240
things I'd like to see. The director of that camp

305
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.920
session treated the note as a prank and it was discarded.

306
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.119
June twelfth, nineteen seventy seven, was the first day of camp.

307
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.039
Around six pm, a thunderstorm hit and the girls huddled

308
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.200
in their tents. Among them were Tulsen's Lori Lee Farmer

309
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.920
eight and Doris Denise Milner ten, along with Michelle Goose

310
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:50.079
nine of Broken Arrow, a subburb of Tulsa. The trio

311
00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.960
were sharing tent number eight in the camp's Coyowa unit,

312
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.759
named for a Native American tribe. The killings. The following morning,

313
00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.079
a counselor made the discovery of a girl's body in

314
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:01.640
the forest. Was discovered that all three girls in tent

315
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.039
number eight have been killed. Now, again, how would they

316
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.720
know that three were in the tent? There's got to

317
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.920
be some serious uh sitting around waiting and watching to know,

318
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.480
because there was supposed to be a fourth person in

319
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.000
this tent with these three little girls. And we know

320
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:20.400
that the suspect evidently peeked into several tents. Was he

321
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:25.119
specifically looking for one that only contained three girls so

322
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.880
that it could match the note? We may never know.

323
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.200
The aftermath, Camp Scott was evacuated and would never reopen.

324
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:34.400
So I see that these kind of events happen throughout

325
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.240
these crimes. When Pgenie wants to blast a pipeline through,

326
00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.039
something like that became it.

327
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.079
Was huge rights, right.

328
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.559
Four hundred and ten acres, it says, So what was

329
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.440
the purpose, what was the need and why did they

330
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:56.000
need that camp to go away? What's that, Harry development?

331
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:01.319
I just said, real estate development, something much more lucrative.

332
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.160
So many reasons why.

333
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:08.079
Right well in the cabin Kenny Cavin murders, PGI ended

334
00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.400
up blasting a pipeline right through that once it became

335
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.799
a ghost town after the murders. And we know that

336
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.400
pgen e being related to ge and that being right

337
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.720
up Jack Sally, So it says Jean Leroy Hart, a Cherokee,

338
00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:20.480
was arrested within a year at the home of a

339
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.799
Cherokee medicine man and tried and tried in March nineteen

340
00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.359
seventy nine. Although the local sheriff pronounced himself one thousand

341
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.839
percent certain the man on trial committed the crimes, a

342
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:33.440
local jury acquitted Heart. Two of the families later sued

343
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.119
the Magic Empire Council and its insure in a five

344
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:40.720
million dollar alleged negligence action. The civil trial included discussion

345
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.799
of the threatening note, as well as the fact that

346
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.519
the tent number eight lay eighty six yards from the

347
00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.799
councilor's tent. The defense suggested that the future of summer

348
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.720
camping in general hung in the balance. In nineteen eighty five,

349
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.119
by a nine to three vote, jurors sided with the camp.

350
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:58.839
By this time, Hard had as a convicted rapist and

351
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.400
jail escape still had three hundred and five of his

352
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.240
three hundred and eight years left to serve in Oklahoma

353
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.000
State Penitentiary. Wow, that's a ridiculous amount of time. In

354
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.119
June nineteen seventy nine, during a jog inside the jail,

355
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:14.720
he collapsed and died of an apparent heart attack. Richard Gooz,

356
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.480
the father of one of the victims, went on to

357
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:20.200
help the state legislature pass the Oklahoma Victims Bill of Rights.

358
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.079
Gooz also helped found and then shared the Oklahoma Crime

359
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.519
Victims Compensation Board, which would later gain prominence for its

360
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.400
mirror fund in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing.

361
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.640
Another parent, Sherry Farmer, went on to found the Oklahoma

362
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.359
Chapter of Support Group Parents of Murdered Children. Oh anything

363
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:39.079
to add to that.

364
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:47.440
I grow suspicious of these suddenly, you know, becoming these

365
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.480
representatives of these orgs. The only one that I found

366
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:56.960
that actually ends up being a good helping missing children, etc.

367
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.440
Happens to be the Kevin Collins Foundation, and all the

368
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.119
others are seemingly especially oh god, what Wilson then got into.

369
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.720
They had good intentions, but they end up really not

370
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:13.440
being the best. So I'm very skeptical. That's what I

371
00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:14.319
have to add.

372
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.240
It's kind of like the two percent from the lottery

373
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.839
that's supposed to go to schools.

374
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:24.559
Yeah, something like that. But you know, so I'm just

375
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:27.359
I'm hoping that I find some really good stuff about

376
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:31.519
these organizations. Lately, I go in with, you know, feeling

377
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.359
good about what I'm doing, and then I come out saying, Damn,

378
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.720
these people are shitty right right?

379
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.079
Well, I think of what, Yeah, and these could very

380
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.799
well be I mean, honestly speaking, we're talking June that

381
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:46.880
these murders happened. We know that Jack is back in

382
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.319
Texas and Oklahoma is just a hop, skip and a

383
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:54.119
jump for him. At that point nineteen seventy seven, Jack

384
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.279
goes back to California. So we discussed earlier that that

385
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:00.440
Nora had left Jacks. That means there's this small period

386
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.000
in nineteen seventy seven after he moves the family to Texas.

387
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.359
She may have left him over the beating of the

388
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:09.759
man in the mobile home, in which case she wanted

389
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.599
to remove the children from that experience. Either way, we

390
00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:16.000
know that she definitely left him and went back to California,

391
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.759
and then Jack returns to California to get her, and

392
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.880
then returns back to Texas until nineteen seventy eight. In

393
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.240
September eleventh and nineteen seventy seven, we have lou Ellen

394
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.200
Burleigh in pleasant Hill, disappeared on her way to an

395
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.599
interview at a pleasant Hill shopping center in Contra Costa Boulevard.

396
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.039
I did not find her on the murder maps for

397
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.759
Sandy Betts, so there may be a plausibility that this

398
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.680
is another one of Phillip's victims, and not necessarily the Zodiacs.

399
00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:45.799
But it is followed by pictures developed in November of

400
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.960
nineteen seventy seven where we see Chubbs, which is Flow's brother,

401
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.440
the one she brought in to take over the ranch

402
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.160
back in nineteen forty four when Jack's father was killed

403
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.319
in the tractor accident. He's getting married and he lives

404
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.880
out his life leaven Singen, Texas, and that's These pictures

405
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.839
were then processed in November of seventy seven, so they

406
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.720
clearly occurred at some point before that, which would again

407
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.440
show that Jack was in Texas. On December second of

408
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:16.440
nineteen seventy seven, Daniel J. Geiden at Scott Air Force

409
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.720
Air Force Base in Bellevue, Illinois. Now this is a

410
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.599
bit off but again, just because of the type of

411
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.319
murder and that there's writing involved, it became an interest

412
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.400
of mine. He was shot to death in his patrol jeep.

413
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.079
Guiden's arms were too short to reach the trigger on

414
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.519
the shotgun, so it wasn't a suicide, but there was

415
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.319
a suicide note that was left. I would love to

416
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:42.480
see this. There were two shells down.

417
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:46.599
To see that note too, right, Yes.

418
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.000
And if there's two shells, now, how many times can

419
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:51.039
you shoot yourself?

420
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.640
Yeah?

421
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.400
It says a Guiden was actually involved in drug smuggling

422
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:04.119
and a drug smuggling investigation that other US airmen were

423
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.079
allegedly involved with. And we know that Jack's last stint

424
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.839
was as an airman, so that suicide note would be

425
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:13.640
excellent to find too. So maybe some research. I don't

426
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:15.119
know if we're actually going to be able to get it,

427
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:16.920
but these are so old we might even be able

428
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.680
to make a foyer request for it. The next thing

429
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:21.519
I had on my list was the Brian and Katie

430
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:26.880
Maggiori out of Sacramento, because of the letter that the

431
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:31.200
Zodiac writes in regards to shooting somebody up by the freeway.

432
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.839
But that doesn't occur until nineteen eighty six, So again

433
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.680
it didn't fall in line chronologically, and they have now

434
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:45.640
actually convicted DiAngelo, yep, D'Angelo for it. And that brings

435
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.640
us to a FOIA file that actually had an article

436
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.240
from Let's see if I can see who this is

437
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.559
San Francisco Examiner on January thirtieth of nineteen seventy eight.

438
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.839
This proves what I've been saying to everybody, that the

439
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.279
Zodiac was silent in California the whole time that Jack

440
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.799
was gone. And it says that Zodiac four years later,

441
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.279
what happened to the killer who kept the city in

442
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:12.359
terror on the night of October on. I don't need

443
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:17.000
to relive the Zodiac stuff. See blah blah blah. Within minutes,

444
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.640
the description was similar to that of the man seen

445
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.240
by officers in the squad car, A white male thirty

446
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:24.559
five to forty years of age, five foot ten, one

447
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.079
hundred and eighty to two hundred pounds, barrel chested, with

448
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.200
light colored hair, a crew cut, glasses, and a blue

449
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:35.680
waist length zipper jacket. Dozens of police searched the area,

450
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:38.720
including the Julius Kahn playground at the edge of the presidio.

451
00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.960
Now he claimed to have been in the park right

452
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.000
when they were searching for him.

453
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

454
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.960
So now we have, nineteen seventy eight, almost ten years

455
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.759
after the crimes, a recount of the actual description of

456
00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.720
the individual. There's no way, Arthur Lee Allen a cru cut.

457
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:07.319
If you've seen this man's head, he was bold. He

458
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.960
was as bald as the day was long. There was

459
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:16.079
no way, no absolute way. Let's see. So this article,

460
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:18.599
after his letter, was it? Okay? So after this his

461
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:22.119
letter indicated thirty seven victims on January of nineteen seventy four,

462
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.119
and a few more letters were mailed, which means there

463
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.079
were likely more victims. During this year. Jack and family

464
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.440
had moved to Cotton, Minnesota, than to Austin, Texas, and

465
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:32.559
then I think around seventy eight or seventy nine we're

466
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:36.119
going to see their presence back in California again. Another

467
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.400
part of the article says we are certain he killed

468
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.279
at least six and wounded two in the late nineteen sixties.

469
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:44.519
Tashi said, there are many unsolved homicides, but there is

470
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:48.240
no reason to attribute any to the zodiac. Okay. I

471
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:52.440
don't know why it would seem uncharacteristic for an egotistical

472
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.599
killer who taunted police with ghoulish and sometimes coded accounts

473
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.440
of his deeds to part this earth without a parting shot.

474
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.240
And Zoeodiac has yet to explain most of the thirty

475
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.680
seven murders he claims. So again he's saying that there

476
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:08.599
are several other unsolved murders, no reason to account them

477
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.640
for the Zodiac's doings, which doesn't make any sense to

478
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.000
me because clearly he's claiming thirty seven and we see

479
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.200
that there are many more unsolved murders that kind of

480
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:21.640
fit in with the scheme. We did have that Paulstein's

481
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:23.759
shirt is said to be mailed with confession letter and

482
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.279
the letter to Belli. We did verify that I have

483
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.119
been I've seen black and white striped, blue and white striped,

484
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.839
and green and white striped shirts. I think that the

485
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.119
true color of the shirt was green and white.

486
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:38.480
Correct, Harriet, I believe so.

487
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.039
And another portion of this so total victims thirty seven

488
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.960
after a three year silence. Daniel Reynolds had gone to

489
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.640
CYA for that time and was released in seventy four.

490
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:53.000
Police believed that Zodiac has an eye problem because he

491
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:56.680
wore glasses even under his hood. There are also indications

492
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.759
that he had some connection to the military. I did

493
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.839
not see Arthur Lee Allen with glasses ever, has anyone.

494
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:09.279
No, And the glasses that Jack wore, I don't what

495
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:13.240
the dig I probably found that out are polychromatic glasses,

496
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.279
is what they were using for those who are working

497
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.759
with atomic energy because of the the stuff would do

498
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.920
with their eyes. So then he did have his. There

499
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.799
were prescription but polychromatic that would turn dark in the sun,

500
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:30.799
and then wearing them at night they would turn light

501
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:31.319
at night.

502
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:37.960
There like a welders glasses almost right. They were probably light.

503
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.200
They probably cost a lot of money. The government was

504
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.759
paying for it, That's what I understand. So he was

505
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:45.759
working for the government.

506
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:50.839
Yes, it does. Now, this is many reasons why I've

507
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.480
ruled out several suspects. You throw a sauspect at me

508
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:56.000
that isn't wearing glasses when the strong belief is is

509
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.559
that the Zodiac killer required glasses to see, then you've

510
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:02.039
lost me already. First off, if they're not wearing glasses,

511
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:04.160
then I'm just going to count out and push you away.

512
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:08.440
It says he wore military type crew cut or short hair.

513
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.039
His pants had pleats at a time when that cut

514
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.160
was not fashionable. He committed several of his murders in

515
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:17.279
the Valeo area near May Island and one near the Presidio,

516
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.559
and his messages showed some knowledge of cryptography. I wanted

517
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:23.839
to talk about those pleated pants because not only is

518
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.200
that something that's seen in Suspect Zero, the movie that

519
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.680
I talk about, that kind of recounts some interesting government work.

520
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.000
But at the same time we see Jack in nineteen

521
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:35.160
seventy five and pleated pants again. So he was unfashionable

522
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:40.480
for a very long time. Tashi said he leans toward

523
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:42.799
the theory that Zodiac may have been connected with the

524
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.799
Navy at one time. We agree. In addition to the

525
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.599
fact that he wore a Navy type windbreaker jacket for

526
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.920
the steinkilling, the detective notes three codes were used in

527
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:56.000
his messages and some had nautical signs. Navy again, one

528
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.559
sign is used by weathermen and Navy people. Now we

529
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.160
know that Jack was also a hammer radio operator, which

530
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:06.440
many of your weathermen actively used the ham radio. In

531
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.559
consultation with psychologi psychologists, Tashi also has come to the

532
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:13.119
conclusion that the Zodiac is a high school graduate with

533
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.960
a giant ego locked in an inconspicuous identity. I feel

534
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.680
he probably has a menial job and is very lonely,

535
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:24.799
not around many loved ones. We can kind of recount

536
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:27.839
that as the way he treated Dennis and the families

537
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:30.480
that he did not consider to be loved ones. He

538
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:34.240
was only an eight grade graduate, but had many different

539
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:39.440
classes afterwards through the military. And as far as not

540
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:44.640
being around anybody who is loving him or being very lonely,

541
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.599
I think that the Zodiac stated that in his letters himself,

542
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:50.759
I get lonely when somebody doesn't pay attention to me.

543
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.480
Tasha, I said a million times, how he's feeling definitely

544
00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:58.599
right right.

545
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.799
Tashi believes that Zodiac has not killed since nineteen sixty nine, Ok, Dashi,

546
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.000
although the Mystery Man increased his total to thirty seven

547
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:10.319
on January thirtieth of nineteen seventy four after nearly a

548
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.559
three year silence, which is why we talk about that

549
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:16.359
time that Danny Reynolds went to Cya jack was he

550
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.160
had to. He was not allowed to own guns for

551
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:23.319
at least a year. See at that time, Zodiac's ego

552
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.000
was apparent, as he planned the Exorcist as bad as

553
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:31.160
bad comedy, although it caused many people to vomit. One

554
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.519
theory that and I'm not reading this entire article. You

555
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:35.119
guys can go back to read it. I just wanted

556
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.799
to point out some specific points. One theory is that

557
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:39.960
he has been in and out of prison, jails or

558
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.240
mental institutions, and we get to see him say that

559
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.559
I'm still alive, I'm not in the hospital, and I'm

560
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.400
not in jail. A janitor inadvertently found a poem scratched

561
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.720
in a library study desk and later proved to be

562
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:57.480
written by the Zodiac. So these are all some interesting takes,

563
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:01.079
just really reconnecting the riverside of murder of Sherry, Joe

564
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:03.960
Bates and the Zodiac. As late as nineteen seventy eight,

565
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:07.559
they are still putting these cases together. And that brings

566
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.440
us to a new letter. Let's see where're at. We

567
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.160
got plenty of time, and it shows that on April

568
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.079
twenty fourth of nineteen seventy eight, the San Francisco Chronicle

569
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:19.160
printed a handwritten note that city pig Tashi. They'd said

570
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.440
they collected a DNA sample that was obtained from it,

571
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.119
but they said it was not an authentic Zodiac letter.

572
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:27.160
So I of course thought that was really interesting to

573
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.359
talk about, not only because we're going to see another

574
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.640
one they claim in nineteen eighty seven that contains pretty

575
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:37.079
much the same linguistics. But if you were to actually

576
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.759
compare this letter to other letters by the Zodiac, we're

577
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:42.519
going to look to see how those things compare. So

578
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.960
this letter in this timeframe, perhaps also from the Zodiac

579
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.599
was a demand that Washington Post classified run this ad

580
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.519
as a secret message. Daniel, please call home. And that

581
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.880
was the it. What was that an anagram from do

582
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:57.200
you remember, Harry?

583
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:01.119
No, the one that the Daniel please call home. I'm

584
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:03.160
currently working on that one.

585
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:06.160
Oh, that's the one I sent you and you did

586
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:07.319
give me. I find that.

587
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.960
I have been another one because that's from nineteen seventy eight,

588
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:18.519
but it's yielding information about the OCCK and it's meant

589
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:19.279
for Jimmy Carter.

590
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:22.400
Well, you did send me a I thought you did

591
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.279
send me a solve on it. I have a solve

592
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:27.119
right here, nineteen seventy eight in Control of all Things letter,

593
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:28.799
It's ah, that's the world.

594
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.359
Yeah, that's the end. Control. Yep, we got that one.

595
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:31.920
Let's do that.

596
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.880
Yeah, that's where we're at right now. So basically on

597
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.880
July eleventh and nineteen seventy eight an herb Cane letter,

598
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.680
same stamps as the Atlanta, Georgia child killer which is

599
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.759
the Liberty Bell, and Harriet has a lot to say

600
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.039
on that we're about to get to. Believed to be

601
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.119
a hoaxed letter that Tashi supposedly wrote, but I believe

602
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:51.440
that he was cleared and he denies having written it,

603
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:56.480
So an examination is an order. FBI called this authentic

604
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.319
in a cable dated seven twelve and seven twenty seven

605
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.960
of nineteen seven seventy eight. A warning is being given

606
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:04.759
to the FBI Examiner's Department in order to prepare them

607
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:08.320
for any statements to the media. So I also started

608
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.400
collecting stamps from all the letters to see if there

609
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.840
was a consistency. And the Liberty Bell at this point

610
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.719
in time in nineteen seventy eight is going to be

611
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.360
next connected to the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases, where

612
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.559
the Liberty Bell was also used in an article. It

613
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.880
says two editor from the postmark in the zip code

614
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.639
numbers nine to four zero. It was determined that the

615
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:29.599
letter was mailed Tuesday from somewhere in either San Mateo

616
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:32.880
County or Santa Clara County. This puts it back in

617
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.400
the middle of the San Jose area, which was where

618
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.639
we know Jack has a family, where yes, go ahead, go.

619
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.599
Ahead, And I'm just saying, is Jack Jack all the way?

620
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.559
And I haven't done the envelope yet, so I'm going

621
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.679
to bed. That's going to take a while.

622
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.559
Evidently Jack's daughter Lana is actively in San Jose at

623
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.719
this point in time, going to school. We've seen envelopes

624
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.320
where she is writing to her grandparents from an address

625
00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:59.320
inside of that area, so not only did she live there,

626
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.400
but also Charles, Jack's brother was living in the San

627
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.079
Jose area as well. On April twenty fourth, nineteen seventy eight.

628
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.320
The ern Kane letter is handwritten. He talks about being

629
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:13.480
crack proof. I'm still here. I have always been here.

630
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.239
He talks about the blue pigs catch me if so,

631
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:21.320
let me read this letter to San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco, Californias.

632
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.679
Rushed editor. Dear editor, this is the Zodiac speaking. I

633
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.159
am back with you. Tell her of Kine. I am here,

634
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.599
I have always been here. That city pig Tashi is good,

635
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:34.119
but I am smarter and better. He will get tired

636
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.840
then leave me. Alone. I am waiting for a good

637
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.320
movie about me who will play me? I am now

638
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:44.199
in control of all things yours truly, obviously with no signature,

639
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.599
just to Colan. And now he's saying guess next to

640
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.239
the zodiac sign. So there's a couple of things that

641
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.079
we want to talk about here. In control is one

642
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:56.480
of the big words from the very manipulated and disguised

643
00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:00.880
handwriting letter to Melvin BELLI. Waiting for a good movie

644
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:03.039
is a theme we're going to start to see pick

645
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.159
up from here on out because there are movies being made,

646
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.599
documentaries being made, news reports being made, and he believes

647
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:11.519
they all have it wrong. All the way up to

648
00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:13.800
two thousand and two and three where he's writing Tom

649
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.519
Voit stating he will give him the information he needs

650
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:20.440
to make this a top shelf blockbuster hit. And if

651
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.800
anybody remembers blockbuster, it was around and Tom gonna say

652
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:25.800
shortly after two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,

653
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.079
before they went out of business, at least in California.

654
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:33.800
So again the linguistics and the consistencies. We have two stamps,

655
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.199
and one's placed one direction and one's placed another direction.

656
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.480
We know that stamps were a big thing by the

657
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.920
Zodiac killer, as Harriet has proven through her solves that

658
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.280
stamps mean something to him. So the yours truly also

659
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.719
is consistent with Sherry Joe Bates confession letter, the Dear

660
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.480
draft Board letters, and others. The letter was called a

661
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:56.119
hoax by local authorities, but obviously at a timeframe passed

662
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:58.840
when the FBI believed that it was actually executed by

663
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.440
the Zodiac. So on four of nineteen seventy eight, we

664
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.920
had a PC riverside where a flashlight was found. So

665
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.079
evidently I have some information about a murder. I just

666
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.320
cannot literally find out what. I can't figure out which

667
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:14.800
this murder was and who was part of it. But

668
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.000
it was in April, which coincides with another communication coming out,

669
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.000
maybe proof that he is still around and that he

670
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:25.159
is still in control. So what I want to do

671
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:27.679
is take a look at the word control in this

672
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:31.239
particular communication and compare that to the control that is

673
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:34.039
found in the Melvin Belle letter. When I look at

674
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.760
the forms in this particular letter, it is extremely, if

675
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.519
not completely, manipulated, and they attempted to write in perfect

676
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:44.800
copybook form. And even when I looked at the g's

677
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.000
in here we can see that the g's are formed

678
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.559
the same way. So I think that this letter is

679
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.719
absolutely a shoe in for being the zodiac. And we

680
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.199
can now look at this through the eyes of Harriet.

681
00:37:56.239 --> 00:38:00.199
So you have done a what was this a Z

682
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:01.800
four oh eight grill cipher?

683
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.639
Yeah, this is among really early stuff for me. This

684
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.519
is like among the top first thirty that I was

685
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:10.920
doing because I got the d here.

686
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:15.679
Yeah, it's in your book The World according to Jack Terrence,

687
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:17.840
and that's one of your first books, right.

688
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:22.519
Yeah, and it's on page seventy and seventy one. This

689
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.760
one was actually it took me a day to do,

690
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.639
if I remember right, because I was getting that good

691
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.599
really quick. So shall I read it?

692
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:32.559
Yes? Absolutely?

693
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.280
Okay, Again it's a Z four o eight grill cipher.

694
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.400
It goes over all the weird dots and blobs and

695
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:44.360
scratched out things that I found in then the cross

696
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:49.039
circle and the guests and the dashes, so it came

697
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.400
out as and I'll read it as broken first. And

698
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.440
then because the message is short, it's N Y S

699
00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:59.920
E N R K E R G gal mm dot

700
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:04.480
l U p A L, which is Powell Hapa lies

701
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:10.239
with Last or New York Senator Robert Kennedy in emergency

702
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.480
room and g N Conna Gal Marilyn Monroe die Labor Union.

703
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.679
Powell lies with Labor Union. Powell Hafa lies with Lass

704
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.880
which so that's what we were saying, that he's up

705
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.320
in the North o HB for a while in labor

706
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:29.800
at Lake County.

707
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:35.480
Or maybe the eighty maybe in the highway your Nayak.

708
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:41.119
Now this is the North OHB for a brief time. Uh,

709
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:44.400
something is going on. Halfa is and Last is supposed

710
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:47.360
to be there in parts not to be to macob.

711
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.480
But there's other souls that we're saying this, and I

712
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:52.719
think we've done shows that bring up about the North

713
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:56.679
OHB which is in Lake County and also parts of

714
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.199
it go into Nepa County, which is just a few

715
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:03.719
miles from Lake. But anyways, so he's saying at this

716
00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:08.480
time that he's lying with Left where she's at somewhere.

717
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:12.719
So I wonder since they only found the skull up

718
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:16.360
in the Nayak area off of Highway eighty and twenty,

719
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.440
I wonder if there is another shallow grave of bones

720
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:22.760
that have been found. Because everybody has to remember the

721
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.320
school of donal Las was found in nineteen eighty six.

722
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:29.960
It wasn't until January this year, Nolan, that it was

723
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:33.360
discovered that the DNA was a match to donal Las.

724
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:37.360
Yeah, it was earlier this year, and we talked about

725
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.440
it one of the episodes published.

726
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.079
There was a story about it in the second.

727
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:43.800
One of E and you never you still never received

728
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.840
any responses from any of the investigative reporter or anybody

729
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:47.199
else in.

730
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:50.199
No I call it left messages and they never got

731
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:50.599
back to me.

732
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:53.639
Of course not they don't want to know the truth

733
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:55.360
or they don't want us to figure out the truth,

734
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:58.360
one of the two. Anyways, a little assistance goes a

735
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:01.440
long way, guys to actually closing or at least And

736
00:41:01.519 --> 00:41:04.119
I've always said this, show me where we can exclude

737
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.559
Jack and I will consider that information. Just show me

738
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.639
how it can't be him. But nobody's willing to do that,

739
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.079
let alone even test do fingerprints do to the DNA,

740
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.800
palm prints or anything else. They just absolutely refuse to

741
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:20.639
touch this with a ten foot pull. And it makes

742
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:24.320
no sense when they will, They will give hundreds of

743
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:27.159
hours to the likes of somebody so false as Deborah Perez,

744
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.920
so that brings us to another article, New Puzzles further

745
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:35.920
muddle Zodiac case. Well known cop removed last letter of hoax.

746
00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:39.920
So this article actually talks about the fact that Tashi

747
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:43.960
was named as a potential forger of this particular letter.

748
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.119
But I'm pretty sure that through what I had read,

749
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:51.159
let's see, the last letter was by the real Zodiac.

750
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.960
Moral declared, there is no question in my mind. I've

751
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.000
heard they're accusing Tashi of writing them. If Tashi wrote

752
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:00.840
the last one, he's the Zodiac. He wrote them all. Ooh,

753
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.280
if I didn't land on the one paragraph in this

754
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:07.440
entire article that just described something that gave me goosebumps

755
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:11.679
off the hook. Now everybody needs to know that goosebumps

756
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:15.559
is the brain's reward system for being right. All I

757
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:20.679
did was read the very first paragraph in this article,

758
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.159
which looks to be at least sixteen seventeen paragraphs long.

759
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:26.760
It's not even marked on my presentation, guys, but my

760
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:30.320
eyes automatically went to it. So, as well as Moral,

761
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.880
I do believe that this letter was one hundred percent

762
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:35.360
written by the Zodiac and we are being lied to

763
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:41.199
just like Arthur Lee Allen though, right, So this last

764
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:43.639
letter that turned up is definitely by the Zodiac we

765
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:47.000
knew in the past. Moral said, I mean I examined it.

766
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.960
The characters and handwriting are just dead bang the same

767
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:53.679
what I just said about the Belli letter. It is

768
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.440
absolutely exactly what we'd be looking for. Moral said that

769
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.480
he jon't what's that he's.

770
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:03.159
Again in Sacramento. Handwriting expert in sacrament.

771
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.440
I don't know that was Pascal. So Terrence Pascal was

772
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.280
the document examiner I and Dennis met with and spoke

773
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.559
with in regards to the nineteen eighty six letter, which

774
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.119
had not been produced for the public. But they all

775
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.079
agreed that it was literally a letter from the Zodiac.

776
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.679
He was in.

777
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:26.519
Sacramento back at the time of the Zodiac, back in

778
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:27.519
the seventies.

779
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.599
He may very well have been. Yeah, I believe the

780
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:33.000
San Francisco.

781
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:38.880
Guy nineteen seventies, it.

782
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.360
Says morel said that he John Shimoda, head of the

783
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:44.400
Postal Service Crime Laboratory in San Bruno, and Pleasant Hill

784
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:49.320
handwriting expert David DeGarmo all agreed this last letter was real. Now,

785
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.360
some of the stuff that I've read is that Shimoda

786
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.400
then tried to come back and state that it wasn't.

787
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.599
But here we have our news articles stating that all

788
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.559
three of these document examiners agreed that this was real.

789
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:02.639
Moral added I Tashi's had too much publicity and some

790
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.960
people may not like it. He also deprecated Proudy's expertise.

791
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:11.119
He was in polygraph operations for the San Diego Police

792
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.480
Department and had very little experience in this. Moral said, so,

793
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:16.800
evidently this must be the person who's coming out to

794
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:20.159
discount And why from Why from the San Diego area?

795
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:23.360
Why from LA would you have any concern about handwriting

796
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:26.599
in a case where obviously other document examiners who are

797
00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:29.400
far more experienced than you have been working this case

798
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.239
the entire time, and all of a sudden you pop

799
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:33.519
in with the voice of reason that it's a fraud.

800
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:36.880
I think something has definitely been going on since at

801
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:38.280
least the nineteen seventies.

802
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:43.079
Well Ry doesn't even think Tashi. Tashi is being put

803
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:45.360
on the hot seat for other reasons. I've done the

804
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:51.320
Doodler cases, which is the Black Zodiac thiss circa nineteen

805
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:55.880
seventy five, and Pashi's coming up as a really bad guy,

806
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:58.159
so it looks like they're putting him in the hot

807
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:01.719
seat because they can't really you know, charge him with anything,

808
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:06.440
but he's being run through the mud, so he's getting

809
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:08.199
what he deserves kind of way.

810
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:10.840
We've not we've not covered the Doodler letters.

811
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.199
Then well, it's it's all the it's all the cases

812
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.039
that uh that some of them are on gracemiss list,

813
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:21.760
and it just turns out, one by one by one,

814
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.480
it's just just anagramming the evidence that was put in

815
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:27.400
the newspapers, and it keeps saying the same things about

816
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:32.000
John Edward Walsh Junior. So she is there. They're partying

817
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.880
with cocaine, a lot of bad things. So it looks

818
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.400
like in my view that they're putting him through the

819
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:42.320
ringer because they can't really do much anything else. And

820
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.239
this is going on for what years?

821
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:49.000
So maybe he could visit those I don't really like

822
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:51.679
to go backwards in my chronology, but I am happy

823
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:53.559
to visit those. If you want to send those over,

824
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:55.400
we'll put him in and maybe make a segment out

825
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.480
of those letters.

826
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.039
Because so many people, they've pushed all these cases in

827
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:05.960
so many parts every which way. But Sunday, like you say,

828
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:09.079
but anyways, so I just wanted to give that input

829
00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:12.000
to she was not the best cop on the planet. Okay,

830
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:14.679
he is what he is. Well.

831
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:18.079
Moral goes on to talk about, let's see who was

832
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:26.039
this he was deprecated? Where was his name? Moral added,

833
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:30.159
I think Tashi's hadding it. An artist, so proud he

834
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.760
is the man he's talking about, and Morel says he

835
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.639
doesn't even have all the material I had. I've caught

836
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:38.239
him wrong two or three times since I retired to

837
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:41.440
private practice. Morel said that from now on he won't

838
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:44.840
work on any Zodiac matters for the San Francisco department. Wow,

839
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:48.960
so Moral is kicking San Francisco to the curb. Armstrong

840
00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:51.800
and Tashi made the first contact with me, and I

841
00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:53.880
was doing it for them, he said, I feel I'm

842
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:56.679
absolved from doing any more. Sure, I'd like to be

843
00:46:56.719 --> 00:47:00.360
the guy who identifies Zodiac, but this is too much. Yeah,

844
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:03.880
you got people in fighting in an industry or in

845
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:09.000
a practice like handwriting, where they're having disagreements when it

846
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.360
should be really clear that we're dealing with the same person.

847
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.400
It's again something political, and I would like Moral probably

848
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:22.480
step out as well. He says, I'd like to be Okay.

849
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:25.159
Mappin said this morning he received a number of letters

850
00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.840
from Tashi after he made the Inspector a figure in

851
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:31.039
his cereal. I don't know what that was supposed to mean.

852
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.119
Although Tashi used fictitious names, Mappin said he suspected they

853
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:40.119
were from Inspector. I noticed that the margin stops were similar,

854
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:42.800
the same type in the typewriter, and the d's in

855
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.760
the signatures were much the same, so evidently they must

856
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:50.559
have busted him trying to create other letters, but typewritten not.

857
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.440
He would have been stupid to try and do handwritten

858
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.880
letters and copy the zodiac. I just think that would

859
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.800
be idiocy, especially when you're a main player in the

860
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:04.840
actual search for the zodiac. He said he became suspicious

861
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.280
at the last zodiac letter in April because I saw

862
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.760
certain parallels between it and Tashi's fan notes, and it

863
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.840
was the only one that mentioned Tashi's name. I felt

864
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:18.960
there were enough evidence there to at least warrant an investigation,

865
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:22.559
and the police apparently did too. So basically, Tashi's writing

866
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.280
his own fan notes, not trying to create zodiac.

867
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:28.519
Yeah.

868
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:30.679
Well, and maybe he fell out of the limelight he

869
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:33.280
wanted to be back in, so he's creating fan letters.

870
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:36.440
But these fan letters are definitely not zodiac letters. So

871
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.440
and the handwritten nineteen seventy eight letter cannot be compared

872
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.400
to a typewritten letter, so there's nothing there to actually,

873
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.800
you know, cross compare. He said, he and his.

874
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:49.480
Esonder gauged in some weird behavior.

875
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:51.920
That's what Harriet saying.

876
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:57.559
Oh yeah, he was. He was partying down with some people.

877
00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:59.760
I got a whole bunch of stuff. It isn't a

878
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.079
Erica is most evil And I think you told me

879
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:05.599
you don't have that book, so I should snail you

880
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:11.239
this huge, big book maybe when I get done. Yeah,

881
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:14.719
because but anyway, so I'll send it to you. But yeah,

882
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.679
he was into some He was like a lot of cops.

883
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:20.239
I'm seeing a lot lately that you know, you want

884
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.039
to believe they're one good, but there are angels by

885
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:28.360
day devils by night, two different lives, right. Well.

886
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.119
Steve McQueen used Tashie's gun in the filming of Bullet

887
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.239
Bullet was filmeds.

888
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:41.079
That's that's I think said that.

889
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:44.960
If I'm reading this correctly, Mappin is the one, like

890
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:48.760
I say, he said, let's see, although Tashi used fictitious names, Mappin,

891
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.239
so Mappin, Who's about to write a book called Tales

892
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.760
of the City. I think Tales of the City is

893
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:57.599
the one that noted and and so Mappin not even

894
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.840
being a handwriting expert or otherwise not even part of

895
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:05.760
law enforcement as far as I can tell, his whole

896
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.559
one that led. And he's the one that led the

897
00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:11.639
police to Tashi being the author of this handwritten note.

898
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.559
You're not a handwriting expert, and you certainly aren't going

899
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:18.519
to compare some typewritten matter. Linguistics are not You're not

900
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:23.719
going to just oppose a handwritten letter to a typewritten

901
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:26.559
letter by any means. But that looks like that's exactly

902
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:27.760
what he's done.

903
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:28.800
Right.

904
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:31.800
He was a calumnist for either the Examiner or the Chronicle.

905
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:34.360
I'm not sure which. Herb Kinge was with the.

906
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:38.320
Chronicle, right, so, he said he and his co author

907
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:41.039
on a New West article about the matters scheduled for

908
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:43.599
publication Monday, made a complaint to the police, but he

909
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:47.000
would not say with whom he dealt or when. Mappin

910
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:49.719
denied the current controversy was part of either the New

911
00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:53.679
West article or his upcoming book. My ass that is

912
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.119
exactly what that was about. He was going to make

913
00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:58.840
news before the release of his new book, because what

914
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:07.440
a better way to advertise and promote a book. Then, yeah, it'sizing, Yes,

915
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.559
Moppin deny home. As a matter of fact, the irony

916
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:13.880
about it was that, because my book is coming out

917
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.719
in August, I was worried people would think I had

918
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:19.719
done this as publicity. He said, you did, And there's

919
00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:26.440
your overdisclosure. There's your statement of saying. He said, I

920
00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:29.239
waited two years before acting upon this because I thought

921
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.880
I thought David Toshi is a nice guy. I'm sorry

922
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:36.679
for the discomfort this may be causing him and his family. Yes, sure,

923
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.960
the van letters are a harmless vanity. Of course they were,

924
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:43.280
Moppin said. He put a veiled message in his plotline

925
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.199
in the serial to let Toashie know he was on

926
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:50.199
to him, but did not pursue it. This story was

927
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:54.320
written by Andrew Curtin and Larry D. Hatfield Oof Hatfield

928
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:57.920
and is based on reporting by them, John Jacob's, Malcolm Glover,

929
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:02.079
Baron Mueller, and Nancy Day. A very interesting article to

930
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:04.079
say the least. What are we on on time?

931
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:05.400
Overtime?

932
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.800
Oh my gosh, all right, you guys. I thank everybody

933
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:11.519
for being here. This was absolutely a fabulous show. I

934
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:14.239
enjoyed engaging you guys in all of this conversation. You

935
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:16.800
all have a wonderful week, and we were going to

936
00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:19.599
see us back live three weeks from now.

937
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:23.599
Happy Halloween, okay.

938
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:27.199
Thank you. Happy Halloween to everyone else. You all enjoy

939
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:28.519
your holiday. Take care,