Oct. 25, 2024

OCCK ends and Jack is on the Move

OCCK ends and Jack is on the Move

Ending the OCCK saga, we move onto the last unsolved murder in Minnesota. Jack is on the move to Texas because winter proves to be too much, or is it a ruse for the move? Jack is said to have beaten a man in Texas, and for some reason Nora leaves Jack...

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Ending the OCCK saga, we move onto the last unsolved murder in Minnesota. Jack is on the move to Texas because winter proves to be too much, or is it a ruse for the move? Jack is said to have beaten a man in Texas, and for some reason Nora leaves Jack and returns to California. This is a possible trigger for up and coming unsolved murders. Stay tuned to hear stories of growing up with Jack by Dennis.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to welcome to the show today, Harriet Souchet.

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Yes, good morning, Good morning.

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I hear your you are casting from a new place today.

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Yes, and I'm still completing the transfer of resonances. But

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I'm in the one. I'm in so.

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Nice, and I believe we have no oh, go ahead.

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I was going to say, people pulled a lot of

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strings to get me in here, so thank you to

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Almost Beautiful that we're probably listening.

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Good good And then I believe we have Nolan del

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Campo here if he is back on screen with us.

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Good morning, everybody, good morning.

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Morning, no no, oh good good good.

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For I know I had an extremely interesting week. I

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began transcribing a case from the eighteen fifties, which is

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obviously in that a very ornate script, as one would

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see in the Declaration of Independence. Now, of course, this

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is a secretary who is taking notes of the case

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that involves the Mexican land grants in California back from

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the eighteen hundreds, and he is using very much shorthand,

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if even articulating letters at all in the script, and

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sometimes having run on words, which means he could put

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the words I have known all together as one single word.

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And of course it's not articulated greatly to be able

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to identify three different words.

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So it's a really complicated job.

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But it's extremely interesting to see what was going on

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in California back in the eighteen hundreds, these land grants

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that were given, and then of course the United States

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was trying to come in and take that land away.

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Pretty much and nearly every game.

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What's that, Well, Native Americans are brown too, but yeah, both.

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And the Native Americans got cheated out of a bunch

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of land.

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Well, I was happy to see that. In my research.

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I came to the end fairly quickly because I was

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trying to make sure I had the names of the

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players in the case correctly that mister Valeo did in

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fact win his case and was able to keep the

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Rancho suscol or sauscool as we probably know it.

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But I was seeing names like Monterey Vaka.

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Valeo, Benetia, So all of these names were names after

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individuals that were given these particular properties. So it's interesting

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to now see the history of these cities which I

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grew up in.

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Well.

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Valo is one of the biggest property owners in the

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whole state, especially northern California, and all the land.

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That used used to be land that is now like Barriessa,

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he owned all that land as well as Yeah.

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Yeah, so I'm seeing in the depositions where I'm actually

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they're mapping out or at least giving natural objects to

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give us a guide as to what property was actually

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owned by him. So you get to see what from

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what area to another, so it was from Sassoon Bay

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to the mouth of Napa River. I mean, they're the

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logistics of trying to identify how much property was actually

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granted to him. Was interesting to go through these depositions

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and see all of these individuals talking about what they

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believed that was given to them and it was by

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Governor Mikkel. I don't know if I'm going to say

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it correctly, but Michel Tourna or Michelle Torrena.

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Does that sound familiar to you.

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Yeah, it's one of.

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The that's the governor at the time that granted. And

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he had must have.

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Been the first governor of California because California became in

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eighteen forty nine, and that was eighteen fifty.

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Yep, yep.

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Well he had passed, so by the time we're doing

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these depositions in eighteen fifty two, he's dead. And that's

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why everybody's trying to identify how much of the land

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this governor and I believe he was a governor also

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associated with Mexico, so he was they were asking whether

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or not he had the powers to grant California land

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was also one of the questions coming from.

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The United States side. Either way.

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It's a big, big job, three hundred and thirty four

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pages long to transcribe not only eighteen hundred script, but

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the idiosyncrasies of an author who tends to use shorthand

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run onwards and then literally in a lot of cases

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it's just humps that he's executed and I've got a

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first letter and a last letter, and I've got to

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figure out what that word says.

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Legally regarding the land grants and things like that in California,

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Texas and other areas southwest.

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Is the Treaty of Guadalvi Hidalgo, which is.

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The treaty that ended the Mexican American War.

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Yes, believe that I were talking.

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About the the United States.

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Yeah, and so the part of that treaty, the United

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States as an entity was supposed to honor the languages.

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So I think that's what this case is.

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And then the United States they decided.

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Right, and then the United States decided they didn't want

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to play that game. They So this is basically Valeo

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against the US in order to keep his lands. Describe

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what those property lands are and the jurisdiction of those lands.

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So on another note, I was I was comped tickets

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last night to the Better Business Bureau Torture Awards, which

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I had seen the email come across, And of course

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I'm getting ready to leave the country, so I didn't

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think I was going to entertain it. And they called

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and asked me to come and offered me tickets for dinner,

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and it.

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Turns out that they actually awarded me. Let's see if

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we can see this.

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I received a Milestone Award for ten years for an

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A plus better rating with the Better Business Bureau for

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epics and morals and Integrity, which I thought was absolutely awesome.

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I guess it just means.

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Yeah, I guess it just means that I And oh

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and let's not forget the beautiful little notebook that I got, right,

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so I can now take some.

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Notes somewhere I don't know. Good time.

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So thank you be working together on the Bakers case.

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Yes, yes, yes, I did hear that you were very

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interested in taking that on. I'm kind of excited myself

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because I've been watching them painstakingly go through this on

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their own without any help, and I'm glad that you're

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on board.

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They waited too long here, I mean, they got some

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deadlines coming up. But anyway, it's a little different mess.

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I know, I know, all right, So let's get back

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to the show at this.

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Oh and Netflix just dropped a new Zodiac docu series.

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Now.

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Of course, the second that I went to Populated and

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turn it on, I could see the the cover of

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their advertisement actually had an obscured version of Arthur Lee

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Allen's face, and so I let it sit there and

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play as if it's on its trailer. I didn't actually

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start the movie because once I saw his face, I

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was disinterested. There is no way I'm going to watch

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another video or another anything that says Arthur Lee Allen

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is the Zodiac Killer. But as the trailer played to

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kind of get you excited involved, I'm seeing his friends,

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his family, people who knew him. These people all actually

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climbed onto this particular movie. And I don't know if

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it's because of their fifteen minutes of fame and they

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get to be on TV why they would do.

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Something like this.

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But they are literally all up there to say, oh,

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I can't believe that he was, but it turns out

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he is. And they are literally running an entire documentary

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on Arthur Lee Allen, who has been cleared five waves

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from Sunday, and we've shown you how through the FOYA files,

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they've searched three different properties that he owned, including his mother's.

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They found absolutely no evidence. The handwriting was not match.

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The finger principle went on a match, the DNA was

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not a match. This man died of a heart attack

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at the age of fifty eight and no wonder the

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stress of an entire you know, state coming down on

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you thinking you're.

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A serial killer. It's just absolutely absurd.

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So the man died throughout this process, and now they're

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actually making documentaries stating that he is the Zodiac and

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it is just completely laughable. Will the media, will Hollyweird,

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will the law enforcement just please stop participating and blaming

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Arthur Lee Allen. Give it up, guys, it's a broken.

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One thing that it corroborates that theory, even though it's wrong,

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is that he was down in Riverside at the time

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of the Sherry Joe Bates killing.

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All Right, Now, now, what did you solve in those

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in those codes?

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Harriet In regards to Arthur Lee.

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Allen that he had a sister in law associated with

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the school at Cherry Joe went to. So some kind

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of funny records happened and he rank of him. Yeah

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there's a link that definitely, And yeah he was down

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in the Riverside area, yep. But he has families in

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laws there.

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Now, let's also remind everybody the red herring. So I'm

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the first thing I'm going to be talking about here

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today is a red herring in the Oakland County child

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killer case. And this comes via Tony, but the fact

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that Arthur Lee Allen was actually a pilot and flew

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a plane and could fly all the way to Riverside,

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and otherwise the fact that Jack knew Arthur Lee Allen.

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He stated after seeing him come up as a suspect

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on the news. At home, Dennis recalls him saying that

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I know that nice man.

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He gave me a ride home.

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So here's a connection directly between Jack and Arthur Lee Allen.

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And we know that there was.

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When I talk about the ability for Jack to get around,

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I've always talked about there was a there's a pilot,

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right for the mob or for the politicians, or for whoever.

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They had one specific pilot that ran different trips for

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different things. I wouldn't be surprised that he, unknowingly or unwittingly,

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had become part of something that he wasn't entirely aware of,

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and then he was led to be the red herring

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suspect that they were looking after. And the way that

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the evidence would have been pointed at him.

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It was the sister in law and brother that had

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learned the authorities to him as a suspect.

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Of course, of course, and they're probably Henry family turned

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on them. Who needs DNA like with DiAngelo. We don't

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need to track your granddaughter's DNA all the way.

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Back to your fourth father. Really like that.

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Either way, you guys, Arthur Lee Allen is not the

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Zodiac Killer for oh so many reasons. Now this brings

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us back to the Oakland County Killer and this is

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Tony once again. He gave us a great information on

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that article that I read in twenty twenty three, and

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it says one of the kids' fathers was an executive

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at GM.

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If I remember correctly, GM made the Gremlin. Is that true?

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I don't know.

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Definitely, yeah, and he called that already, Harry.

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Yeah, he was a very Nazi. Sorry, I did believed

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we did the show last week. But yeah, he's definitely

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with GM and amazing stuff. Right.

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Oh, he said one of the kid's father was an

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executive at GM, not not Chris Bush's father who was

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with gmah. Yeah, yeah, so this may have been a

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direct hit to GM in general. And we have the

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gmac Key ring that goes back to Southfield, Michigan that

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was in Jack's belongings as well, so maybe they're wanting

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to point out out GM on purpose in the middle

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of these acts. So he says GM made the gremlin.

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It's a red herring local for w DIV. Oakland County

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Child Killer actually lists a link for the click on

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Detroit dot com forward slash topic, forward slash Oakland Underscore

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County Underscore Child Underscore Killer. Forward slash will take you

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to this particular article. I've not read it yet, he

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has said, lots of info. This is the best and

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that's at https. Cool and forward slash, forward slash ww

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dot click on Detroit dot com forward slash News, forward

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slash twenty nineteen, forward slash zero two, forward slash one four,

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forward slash watch hyphen here, Hyphen five, Hyphen part Hyphen Oakland,

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Hyphen County, hyphen child, hyphen killer, hyphen docuseriies forward slash

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00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.039
so at that, he says, all anyone has to do

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00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.399
on my YouTube channel is find my episodes or my podcasts,

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at least one of them, then subscribe, and then all

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00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:05.279
of the episodes are there in order, starting with the

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newest one.

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I thought that was great news for people.

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To hear, so just find my channel, finding the Zodiac,

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Nanette Bartow any of the episodes. Subscribe and you will

250
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get all the episodes in order so that you can

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watch them as I've presented them. And let's get ourselves

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onto the next slide.

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With that.

254
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:30.960
The bomb side sounds too difficult to even enter on

255
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:32.519
the key on the keyboard.

256
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What's that?

257
00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:37.840
You got to use so many different inflots for those

258
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.840
for those URLs, Yeah, well they can, they can simply

259
00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.000
maybe there's a link you can click on.

260
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Well, that was the link that I gave out.

261
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.159
Okay, so that was the hot.

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Hyphens and forde slash.

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That was for the radio listeners in case they wanted

264
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to catch and capture it. But for those that are watching,

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they could obviously just look and that url off the presentation.

266
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.600
But this brings us back to the murders that are

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00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:06.720
not linked to the Oakland County child Killer or at

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00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.919
least is law enforcement in the media is stating. There

269
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:11.799
are four other names that come up when you search

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00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:15.000
online for information about victims of the Oakland County child Killer.

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Police have either disproven any connection to the Oakland County

272
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.080
Child Killer case, or there is no conclusive evidence linking

273
00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:24.519
them to the serial killings. Those names are Jane Louise Allen.

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00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:27.840
And did you look these ones up when I sent

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00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:29.600
you over that screenshot.

276
00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:33.320
Harriet, No, But I mean I've been seeing those names

277
00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.159
because I've been working on another communication that is linked

278
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.279
to all it is mes, So I haven't really looked

279
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:44.720
at all of theirs. But I'm very OCCK right now

280
00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:46.960
and just probably overdosing on it.

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00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.039
Yeah, and I'm glad we're coming to an end.

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00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.120
I think this is our ninth and final episode on

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00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.759
the OCCK cases. So we had Jane Louise Allen who

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00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:59.679
was fourteen, Kimberly Alice King that was twelve, Cynthia ray

285
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:03.320
Could sixteen, and she Ish Shrock fourteen. Two of these

286
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.360
cases remain unsolved this day, but convictions have come down

287
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.240
in two of the other cases. So the murder of

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00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.159
Jane Louise Allen we talked about some time ago. She

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00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.799
was fourteen, last scene and alive in Royal Oak at

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00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.600
twelve thirty pm on August seventh, nineteen seventy six. Police

291
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.159
said that afternoon she hitchhiked. So here we've got another hitchhiker, right,

292
00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.840
and this is what's going up and down California with

293
00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:26.720
the Zodiac Killer.

294
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:30.120
But it's it's void of these murders during this time.

295
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.799
So we've got a question, why is there nothing happening

296
00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.440
in California while everything's taking place over here in Minnesota

297
00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:40.720
and Michigan. So she hitchhiked seventeen miles to visit her

298
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.000
boyfriend in Auburn Heights. Her boyfriend told police he reprimanded her.

299
00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:45.879
What's that?

300
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.440
Nothing, that's okay?

301
00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:57.600
Just out loud all you want, reprimanded her for hitchhiking,

302
00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.159
and she left his house shortly after. Four days after

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00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.879
she disappeared, the decomposed body of a girl fought to

304
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.319
be seventeen years old was found floating in the Miami

305
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:06.880
River near Miami's.

306
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:07.279
Burg, Ohio.

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Her hands were tied behind her back, with pieces of

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00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:13.319
a white T shirt, clothing, jewelry, and a recent recently

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00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.279
sutured cut on her wrists led police to identify her

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00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.000
as Jane Allen. The Corner in Ohio believe she was

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00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.960
dead before she was thrown into the river, possibly from

312
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:23.519
carbon monoxide poisoning.

313
00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.839
Now I want to.

314
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.880
Say, how are they How are they determining that there's

315
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.799
no connection or evidence that connects these murders when we

316
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:37.440
know that one of the victims from OCCK died from poisoning, correct.

317
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:38.960
Yeah, carbon.

318
00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.799
Three of them might think, oh.

319
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:48.839
The towns in Oakland County, Well.

320
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.759
She was last seen in Yeah, she was last seen

321
00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:53.640
in Royal Oaks.

322
00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:58.000
But her body was found in the Miami River in Miami'sburg, Ohio.

323
00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.880
Right to see how that plays out on the scheme

324
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.359
of things. But then we've got them being abducted from

325
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.960
one jurisdiction and then being found in another jurisdiction, which

326
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.599
again causes that cross fighting of law enforcement.

327
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:15.160
Who gets the case. So her hands were tied behind her.

328
00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:17.720
Back with pieces of a white T shirt, clothing, jewelry,

329
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.039
and recently sutured cut on her wrist led piece. Oh,

330
00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.799
I got that one carbon monoxide poisoning. So really my

331
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.799
statement is is they're stating that there's nothing that connects

332
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.559
the two when the reality is is we have somebody

333
00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.240
in the OCC case CA case that had passed from

334
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.039
a carbon monoxide poisoning.

335
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.640
So was.

336
00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:42.039
Right, definitely, So why are there's nothing that connected it.

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00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:47.000
In the time she was seated in Michigan.

338
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.000
Right, right, right, because they're all taken out of Michigan.

339
00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:56.160
Yes, that's where the police. So yes, right, well and

340
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.960
let's continue. Police believe Allen. Now we've got the fun

341
00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.160
letter from Allen. Right, was picked up while hitch hiking

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00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.359
and either deliberately or accidentally killed by the motorists, who

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00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.039
then disposed of her body in the river. In nineteen

344
00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.720
seventy eight report, police said she had no connection to

345
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:17.160
thek cases. That's just insane. How are they going to

346
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.039
make a connection if the MO is the same? But

347
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.200
I think this is where it comes back to them

348
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.400
doing the link analysis. It was very complicated for law

349
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.480
enforcement to do a link analysis, especially when there was

350
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.680
a great divide in the area in which the individual

351
00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.119
was either abducted or dumped, or you know, the mos

352
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.920
are different, or the timeframe is just out of whack forum,

353
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.119
so they just really can't see the link these things.

354
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.039
But I think the carbon monoxide poisoning is a very

355
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.559
good reason to link this to the OCCK cases. Let's

356
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:56.000
see the disappearance of Kimberly. Alice King disappeared in nineteen

357
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.200
seventy nine and has still not been found. She is

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00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.960
not related to Tim King, but King and we talked

359
00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.240
about this. I believe in the DC Freeway phantom cases

360
00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.680
where they had same names right, same first names, some

361
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.640
had same last names. It was kind of like this

362
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.680
name game thing that was going on. Kimberly King was

363
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.640
last seen on September sixteenth, nineteen seventy five, at a

364
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.400
friend's house in Warren. She walked from her friend's house

365
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:22.519
and went to payphone to call her sister. So now

366
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.240
we've got that payphone relation, which is probably a liquor

367
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.880
store at convenience store. Her sister told her she shouldn't

368
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.839
be out on the street at that hour and told

369
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.759
her to return to her friend's home. Kimberly King returned

370
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:35.799
to the home, but left out a window. Around eleven

371
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.079
pm that night. Officials believe she was murdered. Officials have

372
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.640
not have not noted a confirmed link to the OCCK case,

373
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.039
but her name is mentioned in several websites. Police believe

374
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.079
her disappearance and suspected death or linked to suspected serial.

375
00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:52.960
Killer Arthur reim So.

376
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.319
So now we've heard Allan in regards to the last victim,

377
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.640
and now Arthur So Arthur Lee Allen. I don't know

378
00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:04.599
where the red airrings should end in this point. It

379
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.279
says he is in prison for the murder of a

380
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:11.319
thirteen year old Cindy's are Ziskizitsky. I'm never going to

381
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.440
be able to say that who was killed in nineteen

382
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:18.279
it's zak Zarziki.

383
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.000
I'm just going to say it took me for three

384
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:25.119
weeks to get Mahelix name pronunciation corref So good luck

385
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:25.559
on that.

386
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:29.279
So who was killed in nineteen eighty six.

387
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.319
Police believe Reem is responsible for four to six murders,

388
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.119
so it sounds to me like they're hanging their hat

389
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.400
on this guy. The murder of Cynthia ray Cadou, sixteen,

390
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.039
was last seen at eight thirty pm on January fifteenth,

391
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.759
nineteen seventy six, in Roseville. Her nude body was found

392
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:46.720
at one oh five am the next morning on the

393
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.799
side of Franklin Road in Bloomfield Township by a motorist.

394
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.720
Police set her skull had been crushed by a blunt instrument.

395
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.640
Police said she'd been abducted, sexually assaulted, murdered, and dumped

396
00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:02.759
on the roadside. Her clothing was never found. Bobby Anglin,

397
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.240
also known as Robert L. England, was convicted of first

398
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.880
degree murder in nineteen seventy nine and sentenced to life

399
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.119
in prison. It'd be interesting to figure out what mister

400
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:17.279
Bobby Anglin has to say. The murder of Sheilash Schrock, fourteen,

401
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.640
was sexually assaulted and then shot and killed on January nineteenth,

402
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:24.480
nineteen seventy six, while babysitting at a home in Birmingham. Schrock,

403
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.319
an orphan, lived with her older brother in Birmingham. At

404
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:29.599
eight thirty pm on the day she was murdered, Shrock

405
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:31.839
was babysitting in an upstairs room of a home on

406
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:35.119
Via Street. A man accused of breaking into three other

407
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.440
houses in the neighborhood using a pride bar and a screwdriver,

408
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.599
broke into the home Schrock was in. According to reports,

409
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.240
a neighbor said they were on their roof shoveling snow

410
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.240
when they saw a man sexually assault her and then

411
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.440
kill her with a series of shots from a pistol

412
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.400
oliveres Andrews was convicted of first degree murder in the

413
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:54.920
death of Sheilish Schrock. He was sentenced to life in

414
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:58.279
prison in nineteen seventy nine. According to a nineteen seventy

415
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.440
six report, Andrew's confessed in a four hour confession that

416
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.079
he sexually assaulted Shrock and shot her five times. He

417
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:07.039
said he believed the home was empty when he broke

418
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:10.880
in and struck surprised him. Andrews was suspected of around

419
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:15.400
two hundred burglaries in several states. So again we have

420
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.960
a burglar who is now admitting to having killed somebody.

421
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:21.400
He didn't believe anybody was home.

422
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.640
So where did the sexual assault come in if he's

423
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.839
just a burglar who's burglarizing homes.

424
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:28.279
So he stepped up his mom.

425
00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:29.119
At this point.

426
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.880
Yeah, he becomes a rapist and a murderer outside of

427
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.680
a rubber and your skating. And he's done this only

428
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:43.880
one time in two hundred burglaries. Very interesting, I know,

429
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.680
I always have to wonder what they've got going on

430
00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:50.359
when they get these confessions. So Tony also at the

431
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.160
end of this article gave us the watch the five

432
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.400
part Oakland County child killer docuseries.

433
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:57.599
This might have been the URLs that.

434
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.359
I was giving you in the beginning of this, but

435
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.000
it lists five different episodes. You can find them at

436
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.960
the link beneath my Beneath the white box is a

437
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.960
blue link which again is the click on Detroit dot

438
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.720
com and it's the local twenty twenty three article that

439
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:17.839
we're looking at right now, but you should be able

440
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.960
to then go click on these other links for chapter

441
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:24.279
one through five of the docu series. I did make

442
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.720
contact with Kathy broad which is the sister to Timothy King.

443
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.359
I also reached out to Corey Williams, investigator for Wing

444
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:41.000
County Prosecutor's Office. Retired Lieutenant Detective Jack Colin Flish was emailed.

445
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.559
Lieutenant Gary Miller at the Oakland County PD was also

446
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:47.200
emailed and requested the I requested a copy of the

447
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.240
dwann to letter. He never responded. The eyewitnesses also reports

448
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.440
a nineteen seventy three Pontiac LeMans two door coop with

449
00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.799
two two two as part of the license plate, with

450
00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.039
an older man. They claimed fifty five to sixty f

451
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.079
five years of age, twenty to thirty pounds overweight, and

452
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.720
gray hair. So I do need to and I haven't

453
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.599
been on Kathy Brod's message board. I just know that

454
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:11.519
there's a lot of information there that I would have

455
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.400
to suck in. The bottom line at this point is

456
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:16.480
I'm just pointing them towards a possibility of a suspect,

457
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.440
not necessarily trying to work out all the caveats of

458
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.079
their case. Dennis Kaufin indicates that Jack thought winter was

459
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:26.519
far too cold to suffer and was moving the family again,

460
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.240
so back to Texas. He's on his way. His mother's

461
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.119
house is in Sagine or Bastrip or Austin area. At

462
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.279
this time we see a picture of the family together

463
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.920
with Flova written on the back, so that this is

464
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.799
confirming that Jack is back in Texas. But winter in Michigan,

465
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.240
Minnesota or Michigan would be pretty much through March, so

466
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.160
it explains why we don't see any evidence of the

467
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.279
family in Texas until after Easter, which is April tenth

468
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.200
of nineteen seventy seven, which would be the springtime, and

469
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.240
it would be green, which consists, which is consistent with

470
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:00.279
the pictures that we've seen. Don Traco, which is is

471
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:05.519
the private investigator for Gumshoe Private Investigations.

472
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:07.720
He is somebody that I work with in cases.

473
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.720
He brings me cases I've asked him to look at

474
00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:12.480
and at and run.

475
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:13.759
Background checks on people.

476
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:16.960
In this particular case, he found that mister Stephen Smith

477
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:22.160
Mackenzie of Coffee Chandler Mackenzie. It looks like pa on

478
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.759
two North Brook Street, Manning, South Carolina. Two nine one

479
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.799
oh two. It looks like he gave me his email

480
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:33.519
and phone number. May well be my reference to the

481
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.440
coffee fellow in the picks following these murders, So we're

482
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:39.319
going to have some more information coming up.

483
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.640
In regards to coffee. Now.

484
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.759
I did take a look at this particular oh are

485
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:50.000
we at the We did the solve of this last week,

486
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.839
and I wanted to just oppose it to other writings

487
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:57.400
in here, including something from the Sherry Joe Bates case.

488
00:26:57.400 --> 00:26:59.599
So we can see down here the press estates and

489
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.000
rivers side with these blown up and overinflated letters like

490
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.519
the letter P. We can see some of that happening

491
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:09.160
here in the RS as well. I haven't done a

492
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:11.960
complete rundown on it, but it does not look like

493
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:17.240
it is Jack's handwriting it. I pose that right. Albeit

494
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.480
that letter E in the funky little way it leans

495
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.880
to the side with a smaller top portion and a

496
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:25.440
loop in the center. There is some consistency there, but

497
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.839
I did not find that anything else was a match.

498
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:32.079
But when I was looking at this, I noticed that

499
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.799
on the explosive papers was that high back A. And

500
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:36.960
the high back A is something that I talk about

501
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.559
in the zodiac writings, because I believe the individual actually

502
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:45.119
normally would use an the belltop A which has the

503
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.680
little overhang or top on it, and that in the

504
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.799
case of attempting to remove that bell top in order

505
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.799
to not be identified, we ended up with these what

506
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.079
I called high back a's. So it looks like a

507
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.880
shortened stem on a D, but it's much taller than

508
00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:02.519
the bowl of the A.

509
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:04.759
And that's why I call it a high back.

510
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:12.319
And I also say something real, can I interject? Yeah, okay,

511
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.400
when I was surprised to see that according to the method,

512
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:22.480
that is coming from James Earl Carter, the president at

513
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.720
the time, he just got elected. And so I have

514
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.480
good news for a lot of people to hear that

515
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.519
there's going to be more good things about Jimmy Carter,

516
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.720
even though Jack was dis off with him. Sometimes when

517
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:42.559
I looked at Jimmy Carter's handwriting, and to this unprofessional,

518
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:45.599
a lot of what's in there looks very close to

519
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.119
how he wrote in nineteen seventy seven.

520
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.440
So I also on to me because I do want

521
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.480
to do an examination in comparison in comparison to both

522
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:01.839
Jack to Carol Settlemeyer, because when I get into Carol

523
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:05.400
Settlemyer and we talked about this before. The blown up

524
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:07.480
P in the way that that P is formed in

525
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.079
police is very consistent with the blown up P in

526
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:14.440
the press uh.

527
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.519
River side letters.

528
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.960
That's the only thing. So the the rest was like, okay,

529
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:24.839
Jimmy Carter, Okay, well let's look at this, look at this.

530
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.240
Let's look at the word rauls here.

531
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:31.880
So here we have rawls or palls and maybe it's palls,

532
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.680
but just connected off of the bowl. But when I

533
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.039
look at that again, we have basically the same blown

534
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:39.119
up reference.

535
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:40.720
We have an angular.

536
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:45.000
Point on the bottom of that particular letter, and the

537
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.440
round as it comes back is pointed in the same direction.

538
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:51.279
There is definitely some consistency. So I would like to

539
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:55.039
do some handwriting examinations in comparison to this as well.

540
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.720
Whose notebook is that this wasn't?

541
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:02.519
This was a phone book of a Carol Settlemyer. It

542
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:07.240
was found in Jay Williams. When Dennis had dropped a

543
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.720
bunch of Jack's belongings. I came across this phone book.

544
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.359
I saw these receipts and there dated twelve twenty of

545
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.599
seventy six, which was around is that Mahelick.

546
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:28.119
No, that's that's that's I believe Stebbens is nineteen seventy Stevens. Yeah, well,

547
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.519
every I was just going to say, there is I

548
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.480
guess the one's coming up in a couple of weeks, right,

549
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.400
And then there's coincidences.

550
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:43.759
Stemmens was overpassed in daily Plaza that Kennedy was going

551
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:47.119
to go under before right after that shot, he actually

552
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:47.480
did go.

553
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.960
Over to the hospital. And then Raoul.

554
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.559
There's a guy named Raoul that was involved in the

555
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:53.839
Martin Luther King assassination.

556
00:30:54.279 --> 00:31:01.839
He was the handler of James rol Ray exactly. Patsy is, well, well.

557
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:02.839
We see his second receipt.

558
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.480
It a second receipt down here is dated March third

559
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.920
of nineteen seventy seven, which is within days and timeframe

560
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:17.000
of Timothy King's murder. So I saw these two receipts

561
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.599
with these dates on him and was absolutely shocked. When

562
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:22.720
I opened up the actual phone book, I found that

563
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:27.240
majority of the information in it was from Michigan. So

564
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.559
I started calling some of the family members that I

565
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:32.200
believed were family members listed in the book, and I

566
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.759
found either a sister or an aunt. I want to

567
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:36.759
say it was a sister maybe I was passed through.

568
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.400
I spoke to somebody first. They contact or connected me

569
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.759
with another individual where I was told that Carol Settlemeyer

570
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.599
up and disappeared in nineteen seventy seven.

571
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.759
They thought she had been killed, They thought she was dead.

572
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:51.880
They hadn't heard from her for almost thirty years until

573
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.400
nineteen ninety three when the rangers had shown up in

574
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.720
California to find her to let her know that her

575
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:01.839
father had passed. So that's when it came about that

576
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.240
she was over in the California area and she had

577
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.839
literally moved from Michigan to South Lake Tahoe, which is

578
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:09.559
where Jack left when he went there.

579
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:11.799
What is the.

580
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:15.000
Irony of that Jack comes from South Lake Tahoe and

581
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.400
moves to Cotton, Minnesota, where he's frequenting Michigan, and then

582
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.359
this woman from Michigan is moving out of the state,

583
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.119
not letting any family member know what happened to her,

584
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.960
and they just presumed she was dead. I tracked her

585
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.599
all the way back to Portola, California at some point.

586
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.440
So basically, some of the summary evidence of the OCCK

587
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.079
murders in Michigan from nineteen seventy six to seventy seven

588
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.319
and Cotton, Minnesota unsolved murders in nineteen seventy four. We

589
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:43.599
are going to get to one more unsolved murder once

590
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.200
we're done with this summary, and I believe that's the

591
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:46.880
exit murder.

592
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.079
Before Jack actually leaves to Texas.

593
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.680
It says Jack has a picture circa fifty two to

594
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.319
fifty four of a plane leaving the snow, a billboard

595
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:57.160
of the nuclear power plant in Charlotte Boi, Michigan, a

596
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.640
key chain with the southfield return address if lost for GMAC,

597
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:03.960
and several picks when it is green and with snow

598
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.759
on the ground, and this is giving him proximity to

599
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:10.000
the area. Dennis claimed that Jack was gone a lot

600
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:12.240
during this time under the guise of hunting to feed

601
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:16.160
the family. There are murders in Cook, Minnesota, and in Michigan,

602
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.200
while the Zodiac has seemed to go silent. In California,

603
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.640
we see the birope by gun and by poisoning, all

604
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.359
of which has occurred in California.

605
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:25.200
With all the other.

606
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.960
Murders, we have handwritten and typewritten messages as we've seen

607
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.079
in many of these cases, and there seems to be

608
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.559
a ring of people involved based on the general census

609
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.920
of those investigating these cases. The polte and offerings of

610
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.079
the Doctor Dante letters shows similarity in the same concepts

611
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.200
we've covered in previous crimes, and Jack should be considered

612
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:51.920
plausible for these attacks. Yeah, there's a possibility of being involved,

613
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.400
being the author, being, I mean the killer, even literally.

614
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:59.440
At some point they did state that it one of

615
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:02.000
the crimes scenes, there was a vehicle that had backed

616
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:04.920
up into a snowbank and left an impression of the

617
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.720
tail light, which I believe they were able to identify

618
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.760
some sort of car off of, but I haven't found

619
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:12.199
that information again, so I do want to go back

620
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.880
and see if I can locate that. So the Oakland

621
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:18.159
County child Oakland County murders involved four different mos all

622
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:21.760
children bathed, clothes are cleaned and laid out with in

623
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:23.840
public view, including the police department.

624
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:25.920
This should be investigated.

625
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.039
It is approximately thirteen hours from where Jack is living

626
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.079
in Conton, Minnesota.

627
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:31.199
Nora has family in.

628
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:33.159
Michigan, and Jack is said to be off hunting for

629
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.519
food and running the back roads during this timeframe. Dennis

630
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.800
remembers Jack sending him out with a twenty two rifle

631
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:40.920
during this time and telling him not to come back

632
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.840
until he killed something. But Dennis didn't have the heart

633
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.559
for this, and that if Dennis would just kill something,

634
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.280
he and Jack could be friends. That is such an

635
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.800
odd statement to make to a child. I just can't

636
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.159
even imagine if you kill something, we can be friends.

637
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:01.119
So that leaves us the final he was hunting something,

638
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:02.199
He was hunting.

639
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:07.199
Everything he was he was hunting, So he was being

640
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:10.360
very semantic by stating that because that's what I got

641
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:15.159
to solved. He was sent to hunt those Nazis. I

642
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.760
believe three of them, and the people were associated that

643
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.360
helped them get here. So we're going to hear more

644
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.000
about that in the next couple of weeks.

645
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:29.360
She's right, surely shortly shortly after the murder of Timothy King,

646
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:32.639
within days, days, if not a week or so. On

647
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.760
March twenty fourth, nineteen seventy seven, nineteen year old Cindy

648
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:40.079
Joy Elias on a logging road eight miles north of Aurora, Minnesota,

649
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:44.239
buried under a pile of trash, multi traumatic head injuries,

650
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.400
lasting in Virginia, Minnesota at a bar, saying she was

651
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.880
going to hitchhike since she was unable to find a ride.

652
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:53.760
The dump site was far northeast along the road before

653
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:58.400
crossing into Lake Superior and into Canada. Here's another Canada connection.

654
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:01.239
It is my belief that it is this exit murder

655
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:05.079
for Jack. Michigan and Minnesota never see this murder again,

656
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.519
so this is pretty much the last murder we're going

657
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.639
to see in this area, which is how many of

658
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:14.159
the crime which is how many of the crimes breeze end.

659
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.360
So keep in mind at California is free of serial

660
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.440
killings once again while Jack is gone. This has a

661
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.440
Canada relation, and this would have been Jack's last Minnesota

662
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:23.440
murder on his way.

663
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.000
Out of the damn cold.

664
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.719
I theorize that this was more the timeframe when Jack

665
00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:31.440
would have moved the family, or possibly even moved the

666
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:34.320
family and came back to get belongings. Either way, there's

667
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.039
always some type of an exit murderer after he leaves,

668
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.079
and we can follow his work right on into the

669
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.519
next state, which is Texas. Dennis speaks about a man

670
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:46.639
coming from Minnesota to Texas with them, which was interesting.

671
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:49.679
He believed that his name was John Hatfield or Hackfield,

672
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.239
who they really didn't know, he claimed, But Stephen Dewhurst

673
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:55.639
indicates that this John came to live with Dennis and

674
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:58.920
the family in nineteen seventy four in Placerville, per his book.

675
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:03.360
So I'm not sure how I could track this individual.

676
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:05.079
I don't even know what he looks like to see

677
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:09.400
if he's in any of the pictures, but it says,

678
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.840
let's see. But he tells the story as if it

679
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.559
had occurred in Texas at Jack's mobile home, which is

680
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.679
clearly in nineteen seventy seven, So maybe even the timeframes

681
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:22.719
are off on Stephen's book. Stephen Duoher's book indicates that

682
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.719
it was later late winter nineteen seventy six and early

683
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:29.320
nineteen seventy seven, towards springtime, that Jack moved the family

684
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.039
from Minnesota to Texas. I tend to believe that it

685
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:34.840
was springtime, since this would be more convenient to pack

686
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.519
up and haul the whole family to another state. Says

687
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:41.039
Jack got mad at John one night for telling the

688
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.880
kids some of the things he and Jack had been

689
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.000
up to when they were in Minnesota. Jack began beating

690
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.920
him with the table leg per Dennis about the head.

691
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.000
Jack came to and realized that children were all watching

692
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.599
him and sent them to their room. However, Dennis said

693
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:56.480
he will never forget the sound of the table leg

694
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:59.280
hitting that man's head through the bedroom door. When they

695
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:01.400
woke up. The next day, the man was no longer

696
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:03.840
seen again, and Jack paid the kids to bleach and

697
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.480
clean the floors an area where John took the beating.

698
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:09.519
So evidently he said the area had been covered in

699
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.960
blood and the kids actually had to be the ones

700
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:17.760
to clean it up. That's just disgusting. In Dennis Coffin's book,

701
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.599
the nineteen seventy seven moved from Minnesota to Texas at

702
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:23.719
the end of winter is being proven by his own statements.

703
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.599
Here it says, nineteen seventy seven in Austin, Texas, we

704
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:28.800
have to call the bomb squad out to the house

705
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:31.320
because the dynamite was unstable and could have been very

706
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:34.239
easily set off. This is the dynamite that I refer

707
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.800
to that Jack purchased while he was in Minnesota.

708
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.639
He claimed to have been blowing up tree stumps. We'll

709
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:40.039
never know.

710
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.239
Jack never went to jail for being in possession of

711
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:47.000
the explosives. Dennis said it was legal in Minnesota but

712
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:51.079
not in Texas. In nineteen seventy eight Austin, Texas, my

713
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.320
younger brother, Charles is born he is Jack's real son.

714
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:56.840
Jack got into a fight when we lived in Austin,

715
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:58.880
and after he beat this guy with the table leg

716
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.320
I overheard Jack tell this guy, don't make me have

717
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:03.400
to hurt you. I had to shoot a man in

718
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.360
the face once. I don't want to have to do

719
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:05.920
that again.

720
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:07.639
Once.

721
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:08.719
Huh, only once?

722
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:09.079
Jack.

723
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.480
Now here's a picture where we are.

724
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:18.320
I've come to the understanding that Dennis remembers a lifestyle

725
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.639
of moving from place to place in a travel trailer,

726
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.159
moving from school to school until nineteen eighty one, and

727
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:27.119
Dennis remembers attending as many as twenty schools from the

728
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:29.880
time of kindergarten until he quit school in the tenth grade.

729
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:36.519
We do find a picture of Nora. Oh, that was backwards,

730
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:40.679
a picture of Nora and Dennis after they evidently had

731
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:45.599
left Jack and returned to California. And then we see

732
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.679
Jack kind of going on a rampage. But there is

733
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:51.239
a small set a series of murders that occurred in

734
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:56.239
between there. It's called the Unsolved Murder Oklahoma Girls Scout Murders.

735
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.000
Have you heard of the girl Scout murders?

736
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:02.360
Harriet, Well, but I'm going to be coming across a

737
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:04.800
whole bunch of things, I think in the next couple

738
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:08.719
of weeks. So, yeah, that's how it happened. You know,

739
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:10.960
you open up one lead and the lead still the

740
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:12.639
other one, another one and another one.

741
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.840
So well find out.

742
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.639
And we know that we know that Jack has connections

743
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.239
with Oklahoma. We know that he kept a po box

744
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.960
at least up till nineteen eighty. He was mentioned in

745
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:27.760
a will as a beneficiary that his address to be

746
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:31.920
reached was at a PO box in Oklahoma. This says

747
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:34.400
that on Camp Scott, a six hundred and ten acre

748
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.280
summer camp for Girl Scouts and Brownies, was located three

749
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.920
miles southwest of Locus Grove, Oklahoma. It was the site

750
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.119
of the brutal bludgeoning deaths of three little Girl Scouts.

751
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:48.559
On June thirteenth, nineteen seventy seven, police arrested Jean Louis

752
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.400
roy Hart, a Locus Grove native, and charged him with

753
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:55.159
the murders of Lori Lee Farmer, Michelle Goose, and Doris

754
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:59.960
Denise Milner. So the campground was operated by the matt

755
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.280
Empire Council of Girl Scouts. That is such an interesting name.

756
00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:09.440
Since nineteen twenty eight, Camp Scott was perfect for boating, hiking, fishing,

757
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.719
and camping. Girl Scouts had come from the Tulsa metropolitan

758
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:14.280
area to attend the summer camp.

759
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:15.840
Introduced his roommates.

760
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.800
On the first night of camp, Lorie Lee Farmer, Michelle Goose,

761
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:24.480
and Doris Denise Milner went to their tent, Kiowattent number eight.

762
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:26.880
Their tent was located at the outer edge of the

763
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.360
wooded camp and isolated from other tents. A last minute

764
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:34.559
changed left Tent number eight one girl short Wilkerson and Wilkerson.

765
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:37.880
As night fell upon the camp, counselors checked to make

766
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.119
sure that one hundred girl Scouts were in their assigned tents.

767
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.039
As counselors walked away from the kiowattents, they saw a

768
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:48.079
dim light in the woods, which then disappeared. The councilors

769
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:50.039
thought the light in the woods was some sort of

770
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.800
prank and went to their tent. At two am, counselors

771
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.599
heard some girl scouts making noises and went to quiet

772
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:59.400
the campers. Several girl scouts told them that a man

773
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.239
looked into the tents and then walked away. Others said

774
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.559
they heard someone outside their tent. Another girl scout heard

775
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:09.719
a girl screaming mama mama at two am W and

776
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:11.679
W nine. I'm not sure why, Oh, this must be

777
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.719
their notations. Also, girls said a man grab them as

778
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.760
they walked toward the bathroom. One girl became hysterical in

779
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.440
the woods when she thought she saw a man. The

780
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:22.880
counselors told the girls to go to sleep and went

781
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.079
back to their own tent. They didn't look around for

782
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.199
the strange man that several of the girl scouts had

783
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.760
told them about. So clearly he's not looking to just

784
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.920
abduct somebody. If he's put poking his head into tents,

785
00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:38.519
he's looking for something in specifics. Wouldn't you think, yep,

786
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:42.840
or somebody in particular? Yeah, why wouldn't you just take

787
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:44.880
the first kid you could quiet them up and run

788
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:47.079
off with them. If your whole intent was just to

789
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.840
you know, rape or kill somebody, why would you make

790
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.760
why would you make yourself so well known and seen

791
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:55.320
by so many individuals?

792
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:57.719
Anyways?

793
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.599
At six am on Tuesday, June thirteenth, Carlos su will Hed,

794
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:05.760
a councer at Camp Scott, went to take an early shower.

795
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.519
She walked, oh, we got about five minutes left here.

796
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.000
She walked on the trail and noticed some things under

797
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.280
a large tree. As she got closer, she noticed some

798
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.079
sleeping bags. Then she saw Doris Denise Milner's nude body.

799
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.440
At that time, Carla couldn't see the other two dead bodies.

800
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:22.559
The other bodies were still zipped up in their sleeping

801
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.760
bags and naked from the waist down. At six thirty am,

802
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.559
Mays County District Attorney Sydney Wise said all three of

803
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.960
the small victims had died from blunt trauma to the

804
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.840
back of the head and strangulation. All of the girls

805
00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:36.440
had lengths of cord around their neck and had been

806
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:40.880
gagged and found with a two inch wide black electrical tape. Now,

807
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:43.519
both all of these things have been found in Jack's belongings,

808
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.719
and the white cord definitely comes back to many of

809
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.679
the crimes that we've been looking at. All the victims

810
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.440
had been sexually molested. Officers found their clothes a few

811
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.039
feet from their bodies. The killer of killers carried the

812
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:58.159
bodies approximately one hundred one hundred to one hundred and

813
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:00.960
fifty yards from their tent and pile the young victims.

814
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:05.039
So now we're back to the piling of bodies which

815
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:09.719
we saw in other camp murders, and we will see

816
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.280
in the yogurt shop murders. There's just this stacking of

817
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.079
the bodies that seems to be following around these cases

818
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:19.760
as well at the scene to detectively.

819
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.320
That he couldn't carry all three at once, So that

820
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.119
means you had to carry one out, go back and

821
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:24.920
carry the other.

822
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:27.880
One, right, and how do you subdue all three of them?

823
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.320
One would be screaming while you're trying to handle the other.

824
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.239
It gets very interesting, to say the least. Although the

825
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:38.280
girl scouts, the ones that actually witnessed only witnessed a man,

826
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:42.480
one single male, so somebody's got something going on. At

827
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.719
the scene, detectives found a large roll of black duct

828
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.440
tape in a red and white nine volt flashlight near

829
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.480
the bodies. The lens of the flashlight was partially covered

830
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.920
to allow only a mere pencil of light through. That's

831
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:56.559
what struck me about the Zodiac because he liked to

832
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.840
use the flashlight taped to the top.

833
00:44:58.679 --> 00:44:59.119
Of his.

834
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:04.519
Of his gun in order to shine the light as

835
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:07.800
a sight a gun sight to be able to shoot from.

836
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.320
So it's very interesting that just a small dot in

837
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:12.400
this flashlight was able to be seen because the rest

838
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:13.639
was covered up with tape.

839
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.840
Let's see the lens of the.

840
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.400
Wild electrical tape is odds, usually either the three.

841
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.199
Corps or a hitch right, this says now black duct tape.

842
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:35.800
So they may have misstated. Yeah, so it appeared too

843
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.280
large to be one of the victims. Okay, wait a minute, heir.

844
00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:41.400
The lens of the flashlight was partially covered to allow

845
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:44.320
only a mere pencil of light through. Inside the death tent,

846
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:49.079
detectives found the bloody footprint of a waffle type jungle boots.

847
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:52.039
It appeared too large to be one of the victim's prints.

848
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.320
Large pools of blood were found near the beds of

849
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:56.119
two of the girls. So that's how he got him

850
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:58.320
out of the tent. He must have knocked him out.

851
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:01.760
The other girl have been strangled to death after being

852
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:02.599
pulled from the tent.

853
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:03.920
Shortly after the.

854
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:06.320
Discovery of the bodies of the girl scouts, Governor David

855
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:09.519
Bourne ordered a task force of Oklahoma State Bureau of

856
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:12.840
Investigation agents and highway troopers to assist the Maze County

857
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:17.119
authorities in the investigation. Governor Bourne also arranged the use

858
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.000
of three bloodhounds from Pennsylvania to help track down the

859
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.679
killer or killers of the three little girl Scouts.

860
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.559
Where are we at? What's that?

861
00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:29.800
I know? Right Pennsylvania?

862
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:36.000
They are in Oklahoma. Maybe that's the only place they

863
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.159
had dogs. I don't know why else.

864
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.960
Did they as well?

865
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:44.639
But why do they ask people like Tim Miller to

866
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.480
go all the way to Florida to investigate the Casey

867
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.480
Anthony case. You know, he's from Texas and they've got

868
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.719
him going all the way to Florida with his resources,

869
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:56.599
his horses, his dogs, his everything in order to search

870
00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:58.480
for Casey.

871
00:46:58.239 --> 00:46:59.440
Anthony's baby's body.

872
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.239
Well, that puts us back down to approximately one minute.

873
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.320
I know we got started a little late on the clock,

874
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.519
but it shows here on my end. We will probably

875
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:17.079
just have to continue this on our next show. Is

876
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:19.239
there anything that either of you two would like to add?

877
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.119
Now? I'm just looking forward to things like the yogurt

878
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:27.039
shop murders? Is that in Sacramento?

879
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.119
By the way, that's in Texas? And I want to

880
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:31.800
say that's a one.

881
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.679
Yeah, okay, Well we got some stuff that involves the

882
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:42.079
yogurt shop coming up in the next Oh yeah. It

883
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.800
has to do with the nineteen eighties and the ones

884
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:46.320
that was in Sacramento.

885
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.719
Interesting and I believe if I'm correct in my recollections,

886
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.320
is that this is another time in which Nora has

887
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:58.119
left Jack when the yogurt shop murders occur. So Jack

888
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.679
is back in Texas with and I believe that there's

889
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.920
evidence that supports that, and Nora has left Jack once again.

890
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:08.320
But I want to say the yogurt shot murders were

891
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:10.159
Maybe it is in the eighties, but I want to

892
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:12.920
say that it was nineteen ninety, in the nineteen nineties.

893
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.320
But we'll see once we get there. We're getting close.

894
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:19.840
We're really getting out of the seventies, all right, you guys,

895
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:24.840
Well everyone, we're sure, I know one. We're getting there.

896
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.679
Well, I want everybody to have a wonderful weekend, take

897
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.679
care of yourself, and we will see you next week

898
00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:32.760
for another episode.

899
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:34.639
Yes, thank you,