Sept. 13, 2024

Oakland County Child Murders Part 3

Oakland County Child Murders Part 3

During a 14 month period while Jack is in Cotton, Minnesota, there are a series of murders that begin in Michigan. Taking note that California is void of Zodiac Killer type murders. 7 Victims in 7 months surrounding some very Zodiac 101 coincidences...

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During a 14 month period while Jack is in Cotton, Minnesota, there are a series of murders that begin in Michigan. Taking note that California is void of Zodiac Killer type murders. 7 Victims in 7 months surrounding some very Zodiac 101 coincidences led me to this crime spree. Influential people involved, communications written, and ploys to turn themselves in at a bar are so similar to what we have been studying. Continue the Mark Stebbins FOIA files obtained by Cathy Broad.

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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Today, we're going to introduce to the show Terry Batcher.

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Oh, good morning, Terry, and we're going to be We're

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going to be continuing with the death of Mark Stebbens

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and the Oakland County child murders today and you've provided

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us with a lot of great information.

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We'll be diving right into that after we introduce our

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other guests.

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Nolan del Campo, Attorney.

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At Law, Good morning everybody, Good morning, and Harry, Yes

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it is and Harry soouche our code solver.

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Oh, thank you and thank you what you sent me

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guys this week. I enjoyed working on it.

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Oh the secret Witness letter we haven't gotten to yet. Yes, yes,

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it is because the communications are kind of what ties

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everything together here as we look at that handwriting, the

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suggestive messages, even the internal messages, if you will, as

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Harry is finding with herselves. We left off last week

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with Mark Stevens and we were going over some of

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the Foyer files that was obtained by Kathy Broad which

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is the sister of Timothy King, the final victim in

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the Oakland County child murder crime spree, and Terry has

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you know, well, lots of effort put into going through

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all of these particular documents to see what you could

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weed out and see what.

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Might actually pertain to the case and what might not.

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When we left off last week, we were talking about

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an individual named William Allan Peterson. Correct, yes, now I

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know that the Allen name in there has some cross

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connection to the letter to doctor Dante. We have an

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individual who is claiming to be an accomplice that was

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helping or assisting the murder in unwillingly helping, I suppose

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he tries to claim, but Alan, what's.

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That fictional person? Right?

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Yeah?

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Yeah, And we know that Allan is also a cross

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connection to the zodiac or because he was also a

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suspect in the Zodiac Killer crime sprees. So sometimes we

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it seems like sometimes they're actually building the patsy while

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they're building the crime, right.

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Arthur lay Allen. Arthur turned out it's kind of a

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nothing burger for the most part, but some interesting tidbits.

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Yes, I mean Alan Arthur Lee Allen was cleared on fingerprints, handwriting, DNA.

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They searched his house and his properties and his mother's

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properties in many places, many times, and we're not able

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to locate any evidence.

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That would have connected him to the crime spree.

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And unfortunately, he died of a heart attack when he

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was fifty eight years old. And now this is kind

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of the person that the Internet would like to tout.

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I mean, Robert gray Smith blamed him. Everybody has blamed

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this man, even though he's been cleared on every single level.

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That's something to say that.

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Boyd is correct. Tom Boite is one absolutely correct.

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Absolutely correct on what hold on.

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I need my listeners, my listeners to completely understand.

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He's correct on that.

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If you if you look at his history, Tom point,

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he's absolutely correct. Arthur Leellen is it despite the DNA,

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despite the handwriting, despite everything. And that's the way he's

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been presented, so people still get beat up to this

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very day, I think on Reddit to so. Anyways, well,

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I think.

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That his two his two favorite suspects are Richard Gaikowski,

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who looks nothing like the Zodiac, and Arthur Lee Allen,

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who again looks nothing like the Zodiac.

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I'm check in the mail for his.

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Oh, yes he does. He owns all.

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He owns all the clips, the media representations, the news clips,

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the reels, the footage, the pictures. He has all of

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the images from scans, high resolution color scans that they've altered,

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that they put out there on the Internet for us

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to see. Yes, he owns all of this sevidentally.

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Either way, I think it's quite comfortable. True. No, no, no,

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he just come in.

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Yeah.

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No, that's disinformation. There's definitely no truth there.

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I think back to the composite of the Zodiac that

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was actively drawn by UH or at least given the

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eyewitness accounts to by a police officer. So when I

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look at that particular composite and I think about the

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individuals that Tom Voight tries to portray as the possible suspect,

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the only thing that comes to mind is something that

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and my ex husband used to say to me and

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used to make me crazy. But he'd say, who are

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you going to believe me or your lying eyes? If

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the cops take on it, don't believe the composite that

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was drawn based on the eyewitness account of the officer.

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Believe what Tom Boyd is telling you, and you have

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your suspect.

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All right.

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Back to Oakley County child murders.

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I swore I was done ranting on voight, but somehow

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he just keeps coming back.

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I think you know you're conor acting on thousands of

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lies that occurred. You're going to have to be redundant

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in your own presentation points, you know, just to get

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things across to people, because they got certain things in

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their heads, and their minds don't change easily, so truth

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often to counteract.

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Back to.

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So back to William Allen Peterson. It looks like I

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don't know if you know where his name was derived.

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Do you know how they came up with the suspect?

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Yes, let me just say first before you go into

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this stuff, this is strictly the original documents that that

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were generated right after this crime happened. I haven't this

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crime had These ock crimes had several different looks at him.

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There's different eras when so this is a fresh off

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the press one, if you know what I'm saying. He

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lived downstairs of where Stebans lived. In fact, that's why,

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that's why he made the suspect list. And he was

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a bad actor from the sense that he was charged

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with raping some woman. But I think I got weeded

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down to something of a lesser charge, but it was

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a serious rape charge. So he was on the hot

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seat for this thing. He showed up. He showed up

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at the funeral which occurred on the twenty third. The

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body was found on the nineteenth, and the funeral was

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on the twenty third of that month. He showed up

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and his name was on the funeral registry, and so

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he came up. And there's documents that we have about

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him that you can read about him. But he was

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looked at very closely and was not concern that are

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at a suspect. But you know, what goes on behind

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the scenes isn't always clear, you know what I'm saying.

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It's very very interesting.

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And somebody must have said that he was an employee

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of the Dubs Country Kitchen, because this document states that

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they spoke to Martin Potashnik of the Dubs Country Kitchen

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on ten Mile in Greenfield. He was questioned on several

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points as to whether suspect worked there and how garbage

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was taken out. That's an odd request, but he states,

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William Allen Peterson did not even work there. The garbage

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is taken out at eleven am and eight pm. It

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is taken out in garbage cans or plastic bags, and

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it is carried and placed in the compactor. So where

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the body's found is, I don't see a compactor around it.

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I know, maybe I should have placed that picture bick

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there again, but.

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There was one. In fact, there was a compactor, but

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he wasn't, of course, place in the compact. It was

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near that area. The body was placed there, but gotch.

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Isn't it interesting though, that there would be these peripheral

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things about this particular suspect. You know that, you know,

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the remarks of garbage was.

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Taking on all that.

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But but then again that's all Explainablow too. But anyway,

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it turned out that he did not work and never

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worked at the Doubs Country Kitchen from what I gather.

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So you always have to wonder how they got that

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information and how they came to those conclusions.

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Exactly, exact, good point, and exactly and so, and what

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was told them about him when they got the information.

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And that's the problem with some of these files is

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that you don't get an explanation as to why do

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they go parking up this tree? But there's a reaffirmation

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in the fact that he lived downstairs or where Missus

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Stevens lived supposedly.

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Well, yeah, and I mean quite frankly, the doctor Dante

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letter hasn't come out yet indicating that Allen Right the accomplice,

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So there would not have been a match to that

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at this point because that comes much later, I think,

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even after the final killing of Timothy King right.

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I don't remember the exact chronology. That's something I have

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to bone up on. But I believe you're correcting what

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you just said. But it comes after this, It comes

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after this, I believe it comes certainly after Jill Robinson,

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which is next to look at right.

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So this is this is more that they had to

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say on Peterson.

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It says interview with below subject at the Troy PD

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on three point fifteen seventy six. Let's see, they had

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several oh, look at this present, were you guys this

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is interesting present? Is John Hagg of SFPD? Is that

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what that freaking says? Right, I'm wondering, and Lorne down SFPD,

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Lieutenant Pat Sullivan, why PD?

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That would.

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And Sergeant Neil Day of MSP, that says SFPD. Do

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we have another SFPD in Michigan?

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Not Ard though, right.

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I think that's why they were thinking that this was

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a zodiac connection. That's why I interjected a little bit

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more about Tom Boyd because the OCCK killings were on

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his site as well. So anyway, just keep going. I

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remember following all this early years many years ago. See now,

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hold on.

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I'm like wanting to fall out of my chair.

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I clearly didn't read your stuff, Terry B because I

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knew you were going to be the one presenting and

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talking about it. But I'm like a little bit shocked

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right now that we would have law enforcement from SFPD

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present at the interrogation of this William Allen Peterson in Michigan.

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I'm just a little floored right now.

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I wondered the same thing. But that was one of

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those reasons that I like to have you and Harriet around,

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is I thought SFPD. I thought the same thing, but it's,

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like so many things, I had to set it aside

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and move on to other bigger things. So, yes, that's

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a very good point. I was trying to pull a

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document up out of my files to take a look

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at it. But why don't you read it? And yeah, SFP, Yeah,

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I mean I think, Harriet Nails.

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What are they doing there? What are they doing there?

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Obviously they obviously believed that the Zodiac Killer could possibly

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be responsible for child murders, which is something I've stated

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based on the communications. At this point, we don't have

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any communications in this case. There's been nothing written. So

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why in the world would SFPD be even involved in this?

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All right, but I had criminal characteristics, the crime had

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characteristics that would parallel and it actually fit with the

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threats that the Zodiac Killer persona made.

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So yes, can I believe he started with children? I

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believe there were children throughout. I think that ultimately speaking

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it in you know, after the assassination of JFK. It's

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always been a well known thought in my head is

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that they don't assassinate the president anymore, they take out

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00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.559
the kids. The mob doesn't hurt you through hurting you,

227
00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.840
because then they come under suspect for murdering you. They

228
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.120
hurt your children, they hurt your family, they take your

229
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:19.639
entire family in some cases.

230
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:22.600
Look at the Kennedys or a.

231
00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.200
Namesake as well, which I think that maybe the case

232
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:28.639
was Stebbens at which Harriet had brought up. It came

233
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:30.679
up that it was somebody else's name by the way,

234
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:35.080
as being Mark Stevens father. But I still say that

235
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.360
could be a veiled threat or part of a veiled

236
00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.559
threat to the Stevens Stevens person. They're trying to control,

237
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.519
you know what I'm saying. Right, You're going to see

238
00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:48.480
evidence that they were trying to control Kim or Chris

239
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.720
Bush's father, and that he went through and burned a

240
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.600
bunch of his papers in his house after the Chris

241
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.480
Bush allowed to suicide. But why don't you go ahead

242
00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:59.120
on this one? And right? All right?

243
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.120
And as Peterson was read his constitutional rights by Sergeant Day,

244
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:07.480
which he stated he understood, he stated he would talk

245
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:12.200
to these officers' reference above complaint. He states on Sunday two,

246
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.519
fifteen seventy six, he is almost sure he was in Shepherd,

247
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.679
Michigan with his girlfriend Stephanie Worstler. He came back to

248
00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:23.000
his home in Birmingham on two seventeen seventy six. On

249
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.039
two twenty two seventy six, Sunday night, he heard on

250
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:26.759
the news.

251
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:27.600
About Steben's death.

252
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:29.960
He states he went to the funeral home on two

253
00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.360
twenty two seventy six at seven pm. After the funeral

254
00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.159
home visit, he went to a friend's home on Mure

255
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:41.919
in Hazel Park, Keith, Blackwell. He was bummed out over

256
00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.440
the boy's death and got loaded. He went home and

257
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.080
slept until eleven am the next day. To twenty three

258
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.000
seventy six, He stated that he should check with his

259
00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.000
girlfriend she could possibly be exact with dates and times,

260
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.720
as he was not too good in this area. He

261
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.639
states he lived below the Stebbins family for six months

262
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.240
with his girlfriend. He knew Missus Stebbins and the older boy,

263
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:08.000
but did not but not too much contact with Mark.

264
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.679
He stated Mark was a tough little kid and was

265
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:14.039
no dummy. He got in a normal amount of fights

266
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.600
with his brother, who referred to Mark as urchin. He

267
00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.799
states Mark appeared to be a follower and had lots

268
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:23.519
of friends. He states they moved out of four twenty

269
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.720
nine East Saratoga approximately one sixteen seventy six. He was

270
00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:32.879
helped by his father, the older Stevens boy and one

271
00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:36.000
of his friends and Stephanie Marstler to move out. So

272
00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:40.279
evidently he moved out before the death and was already gone.

273
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:40.720
Yep.

274
00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:48.799
So the next one here says officer received tip from

275
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:53.519
below reference above complaint phone Steve Siegrist Circuit Corps Probation

276
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:57.320
Department above states one of his probationer is out on

277
00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.639
probation for an aggravated assault charge stem from a rape

278
00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.600
charge in Troy where he forced a girl to have

279
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.879
oral sex with him. He states suspect made the statement

280
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:07.799
to him that he used to live at four twenty

281
00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.120
nine East Saratoga, below the Sevens family. He stated he

282
00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.000
knew Mark and spent a lot of time with him. Oh,

283
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.480
all of a sudden, this is a different version. He

284
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.240
also states he gave him a ten speeds bicycle. He

285
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.960
states he was last known to live on Saratoga on one,

286
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.840
seven seventy six. Mister Secrets states while in prison two

287
00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:31.799
oh so a probationer is out on probation for an

288
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:35.240
aggurate so are they literally talking about okay?

289
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:37.320
He states he knew Market.

290
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:39.879
I'm trying to Yeah, he states was last known to

291
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:44.000
live on Saratoga Miss Secrets. Mister Secrets states while in

292
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.320
prison two of the suspects inmates say suspect perform oral

293
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.360
sex on other inmates. He states subject has a lot

294
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:55.240
of hostility against man and woman and is very dangerous.

295
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.480
And so he's referring to this William Allen Peterson.

296
00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.519
Right, And so I think you just got your answer

297
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.360
to the question as to well, how did they know

298
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.160
to link him? You know, there's inside information this guy

299
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.119
is a you know he's been in prison. They know

300
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.599
these performed oral sex on somebody or allegedly, and and

301
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.039
that you know that he's he's one of the usual

302
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.440
people that these people would cultivate. You know what I'm

303
00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.240
saying that the people are behind these murders.

304
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:28.920
So I mean, he's go ahead.

305
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.079
The date on this one is is how different is

306
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.440
is it from the date on the previous one?

307
00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:39.440
And see the date on the previous one was three

308
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:42.240
three seventy six, So I just had them out of order.

309
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:43.960
We would have seen that ahead of time.

310
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.920
So now he is somebody who is aggravatedly having oral

311
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.279
sex with people.

312
00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:58.240
They contained different information regarding how well he knew the boy.

313
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.599
Well, this is this is the statement from the inmate

314
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:08.640
in prison stating that. So Steve Segrest is the one

315
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:15.440
stating that Peterson had this connection. So this isn't Peterson

316
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:16.480
stating it.

317
00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:23.039
Okay, so Peterson, but this guy basically rated him out

318
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.759
on how well he knew the boy.

319
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:28.160
That right, And this guy might be embellishing.

320
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.519
Too, Yeah, he may very well be. He's an inmate

321
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:37.640
himself as well. So anyway, they listen say that again, Harriet.

322
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.480
I was saying, trying to find a way to get

323
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.680
out easy, you know, out of prison, and he maybe

324
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:47.880
that's what they do, yeah, to to to kiss up

325
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.480
to the system so he can get out. So he's

326
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:56.799
embellishing things, yeah, right, And.

327
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.960
He owned an an, a MX or a javelin rusty

328
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.359
color primer, oversized tires, stickers five to six years old.

329
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.559
So this guy tends to know a whole heck of

330
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.680
a lot about William Allen Peterson. So I'm not sure

331
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:15.240
if he's hanging out with him after prison, but yeah,

332
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.400
evidently because this is the Circuit Corporation department that is

333
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.640
being discussed here. All right, Anyways, investigation follow up, officers Dean,

334
00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.039
Dean and Sykes went to the area where the body

335
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.039
was found. Officers were on the east side of the

336
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.160
wall in the parking lot of the New Orleans Mall.

337
00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.359
Officers looked down and observed a small two inch by

338
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.720
four inch card with the name mark Stebbins on it.

339
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.599
It is a card that was passed out at the

340
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.279
funeral home.

341
00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:43.799
Card was preserved for Prince and Tot. What is tot?

342
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:44.839
Do you know what that is?

343
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.279
Nolan No.

344
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.440
I looked it up and it's contradictory and I can't

345
00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.359
remember what it stood for. It was something about it

346
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.880
was like handing off the document to another person or

347
00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.200
in an apartment as tell you something about this document

348
00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:04.920
is one I did annotate further in my files because

349
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.400
I lait a minute here with the time was deceptus

350
00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.599
is two nineteen, Well that's when he found his body.

351
00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:12.960
But notice that there's no other date on this entire document,

352
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:14.920
and that's what we want at the bottom. I don't

353
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.480
believe there was the next document that came after this

354
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:20.960
was the one that I put up. You'll find that,

355
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.200
in fact, it was not that one. It was one

356
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.359
I sent for later this week. On the twenty third,

357
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.759
the funeral occurred, so he would not have had access

358
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:32.920
to a funeral card till the twenty third. As a

359
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.960
matter of fact, they weren't let out until nine am

360
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.599
in the morning, so and in fact the card was

361
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:43.279
found that I think sometime in the middle afternoon. So

362
00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:46.559
they don't give you the full information on this card business,

363
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.279
on this particular document, which is a bit frustrating, you know, right.

364
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:52.480
Well, in anybody that was at the funeral and I

365
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.839
saw the list you provided the funeral book. I mean

366
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.559
there was lots and lots and lots of people who

367
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.519
attended this funeral, so a lot of people would have

368
00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:01.759
come into contact with this.

369
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.880
Card, right, right, So either the data is wrong or

370
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.000
or something best up.

371
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.559
The data right the little box, that's their little way

372
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.680
of organizing this, right, We'll see by the pattern of it,

373
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.200
they're saying, okay, it's it's case number, and then the

374
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.759
homicide the saying that's a.

375
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.559
Hormice evens and the data.

376
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.519
And then they found his body has bo turned up

377
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.160
on two, nineteen seventy six. But then that's it.

378
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.079
And I was, yes, every every top right hand corner

379
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.480
of these documents contained that same infoo one.

380
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:35.559
So I think that's just the header for this particular.

381
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:40.079
Yeah, because the impossible funeral was there until the twenty thirty, right.

382
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.759
So that, yeah, that's just a marker I think for

383
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.920
the crime when the body was found in the case number.

384
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:51.000
But like there's no other Yeah, there's no other date here.

385
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:52.759
I mean, you'd have thought the officers would have at

386
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:54.039
least marked the date in.

387
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.480
Which they found the card, and they did not, right.

388
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.920
All right, So that brings us to the slide. And

389
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.880
I see all of these notes made next to these pictures.

390
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.279
Are these something that these notes made by Kathy Broad?

391
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.599
I don't know exactly. I can't answer that. I don't know.

392
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.960
It looks like there's two different types of handwriting. And

393
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.200
I didn't BELLI sees because our subject right now, the

394
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:19.319
chronology is on Stevens. So you may want to bring

395
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.960
this up as we move forward with Stebbens. And you

396
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.160
know what I'm saying. So, you know, I had to

397
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:26.359
pick it. I had to figure out, well, what are

398
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:28.039
we going to say, Well, we're not going to say

399
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.119
how you know, far off track, We're going to get

400
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.960
the most important thing about this document to me that

401
00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:37.079
I Tredy picked out. This was it clearly says in

402
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.720
here they found sperm in the throat, and this is

403
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.680
that document. There is from the the doctor Olsen document

404
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:49.079
which came out much later. And that's that name of

405
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.519
that k that's a police officer that stated that. But

406
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.880
the frustrating part is going to be that it does.

407
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:59.319
No sperm shows on the evidence list. Whatever happened to

408
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.599
that of that sperm that they that they said they had, Well,

409
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.279
you ain't going to find anything out about it the

410
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.519
FOYA files, I can tell you that. So very frustrating

411
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.240
too to find that later on. You know what I'm saying.

412
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.359
It seems to me that Kathy Broad presented the doctor

413
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.079
Olson stuck to me after the Foya files are presented,

414
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:21.640
or maybe she maybe this was part of the Foil files,

415
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.240
So this might actually have been I'm going to clarify it.

416
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.720
I'm going to I'm going to straight myself on the

417
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:29.640
statement this was in the Floya files and I didn't

418
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:30.680
know where it came from.

419
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.440
And let me let me read real quick, because I

420
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.079
think it has some interesting information, whether it's true or not.

421
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:39.680
It looks like somebody that is being question here.

422
00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:45.160
It rounds out kind of like a deposition transcript, right, Nolan, like,

423
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.759
we've got to Yeah, we got a d K and

424
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.839
a O and I'm not sure what that means, but

425
00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.319
those are.

426
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.960
Cops and investigators and the always doctor Olson.

427
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.799
So we have Dean I know that we said Dean

428
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.039
and psychs over here on this one. All right, so

429
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.839
d says, and Jill Robinson was twelve, So now this

430
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.720
is obviously well after the Robinson murder twelve years old. Yes, well,

431
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.839
certainly those two girls have great similarities, there's no getting

432
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:11.400
away from it.

433
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:11.640
All.

434
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:13.759
I think your presumption that both were done by the

435
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.440
same person were correct. How long was the boy missing

436
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:17.400
before he was found?

437
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:18.000
Kay?

438
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.440
The boy was missing four days, just about exactly the

439
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:22.119
same as.

440
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.119
The Robinson girl. He was picked up on a.

441
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:27.599
Sunday afternoon, exactly about the same time as this last

442
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:30.599
girl was, and that was on February fifteenth last year,

443
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:32.839
and he was found February nineteenth around noon.

444
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.519
So he was gone four days.

445
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:34.960
Now.

446
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.599
Just because somebody didn't find him doesn't mean that he

447
00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:41.440
hadn't been laid there before four days, right.

448
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:44.680
You're talking about Stevens.

449
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:46.599
Stevens right, Oh no.

450
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:49.680
No, there's I haven't shown all the documents. I'm trying

451
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:51.759
to keep this way. You can keep over with them

452
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:53.799
out of it. No, there's there's plenty of people that

453
00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:56.720
rock fire with their dog and were there Hoday, Okay,

454
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:59.960
there was no body. That body showed up at roughly

455
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.279
sometime around eleven in the morning, and there is a

456
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.599
car attached to it. And you know, this is why

457
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.279
you and I need to communicate, because I think you're

458
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:09.759
going to want to see those next so that you

459
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.359
can focus on those and glean what you want from

460
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:15.359
those or what you can from those. So I'm just

461
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:19.039
trying to I'm thinking of continuity here on all this stuff,

462
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:20.920
and I want to get across the point about this

463
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:23.400
sperm thing and the evidence on them.

464
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.839
Let me let me finish, let me finish reading before

465
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:28.200
we go before King.

466
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:31.000
By the way, this is before King's case.

467
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:33.200
I think that all of this was okay.

468
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.000
I don't think this is right after right after Mahlic

469
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.880
This is not does not include the King Kim King murder.

470
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.680
I believe I may be wrong in that. So you

471
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:46.119
had that's the answer. Is another question you asked me

472
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.480
earlier in this presentation, So go.

473
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.200
Ahead, Yes, when was this done. Okay, so it says,

474
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.240
and what was the condition of the body?

475
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:53.759
Let's see.

476
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:56.559
Oh wait, but the boy was missing four days, just

477
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.079
about exactly the same as the Robinson girl. He was

478
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:01.839
picked up on Sunday afternoon, exactly about the same time

479
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.640
as this last girl was, and that was on February

480
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.599
fifteenth last year. And he was found February nineteenth around noon.

481
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.319
So he was gone four days. And what was the

482
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.960
condition of his body? K. He was the one that

483
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.039
was He had rope marks on his arms. He had

484
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.279
definitely been sodomized. They found sperm in the throat, and

485
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.079
he had a small wound on top of his head,

486
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.079
but there was no fracture or anything like that. D.

487
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.519
There was a lot of blood though, there was a

488
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.519
lot of bleeding and K, but there wasn't any on

489
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:34.240
the coat. The coat was clean because I seen the

490
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:40.440
coat D on the inside of the hood question mark. K. Yes,

491
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.200
the wound was even cleaned right out. This is why

492
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:45.359
they came to the conclusion that he had been washed.

493
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.160
You can see the rope mark there and then oh,

494
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.240
very definitely. And his body was in equally good condition

495
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.200
as the girls. There was no appreciable post mortem change,

496
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:01.160
k no, and so the interview continue news. Did they

497
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.839
have any idea as to how long he had been

498
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.640
in that spot? It was less than twenty four hours,

499
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.359
wasn't it? And so yes, you're you're thinking that he

500
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.359
was dropped there around eleven. They found him at approximately

501
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:15.200
wet time about.

502
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.039
Really very close to the time to think he was

503
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:18.079
a positive there.

504
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:24.880
When I'm looking at these others.

505
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.400
It was a busy area.

506
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.039
What was that, Nolan within a couple of hours.

507
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.839
No, it wasn't even a couple of hours. I think

508
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.079
that you'll see the documents, and that's what the cops did.

509
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:36.599
Do a good job. They're kind of narrow down. Okay,

510
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.039
if his body wasn't there by this time in the morning,

511
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.759
they got narrowed it down to being within an hour

512
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.880
time frame. Betwe what he was depositive, and there's a

513
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.039
car to go with that as a van to kind

514
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:50.400
of go with that. Those out well, I think we

515
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.480
should look at next. But I didn't put him on

516
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.000
here today because I thought, you know, and if this

517
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.559
is the way you want to go, you guys want

518
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:58.680
to look at this next, I'll be happy. I mean,

519
00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.960
it's your presence of yours.

520
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:03.839
So you're saying this suspect was bold enough to dump

521
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:05.519
this body mid day.

522
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:09.920
Absolutely in the morning. Mid morning would be of course,

523
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.160
it's in back of the place near the dumpster area.

524
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:15.240
But there were two vehicles that pulled up. One of

525
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.119
them backed in I think was a van, had its

526
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:20.839
lights on. There's another one that's that fits the description

527
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.839
of the car possibly involved. There are a bunch of

528
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.920
documents with that. You guys need to see it that,

529
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:28.680
I should say, a bunch of them, but there are

530
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:34.680
some interesting documents that address well who you know and

531
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.599
how was he transported. I'll give you a look ahead

532
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:40.559
on it. On the Stebbing's case, he had marble.

533
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.559
Well I may I may go over it because I

534
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:44.319
still have a bunch of your documents in here.

535
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:45.400
So before we do.

536
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.559
The blood, the bud settling in his butt boxer in

537
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.319
his lower part shows that he was sitting up same

538
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.680
way with Tim King when that come of that. So

539
00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:59.319
he was really so this guy transported our suspect transported

540
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.720
him sitting up up in the car and said because

541
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.079
arms his laser are still they had lividity they call it.

542
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.960
And so yeah, he was. This was very nervy. This

543
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.599
is a no wonder. They looked at it as a

544
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:16.000
Zodiac killer crime. No wonder, Yeah right, no wonder.

545
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.759
All right, So this next document you stated Fitz descriptions

546
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:21.680
of Jack Terrence and Mark Stevens.

547
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:24.559
Here we have it right here. That's what I'm talking about. Okay, good,

548
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:25.359
you got it all right.

549
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.240
Officer received information from Lieutenant Shaver below. Subject called in

550
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.319
the following tip. Pat Donnelly is the subject that called

551
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:35.480
it in. On two fifteen seventy six, between twelve pm

552
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.319
and one pm, he was at the Village flea Market

553
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:41.519
at ten mile and Woodward. He observed a late model

554
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:46.680
GM Buicker Cadillac maroon slash white in color with possible

555
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.440
for sale signs in the windows. He observed a dark

556
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.319
complexed white male five foot ten, heavy build, approximately forty

557
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:54.039
five years old.

558
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.400
Holy crud, Yeah yeah, that is a.

559
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.960
That is literally nailing down jacket. This time.

560
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.319
He had medium length, dark thinning hair driving it. Next

561
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.559
to him was a young white male, light complexion, reddish

562
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.279
blonde hair. He stated it caught his eye because it

563
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:15.400
looked like his nephew.

564
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:16.920
The vehicle was south.

565
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.799
On Woodward from ten mile the that's redacted day. He

566
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.880
saw a picture of Mark Stebbens in the paper and

567
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.000
felt this could be the boy in the car he saw.

568
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:29.559
He could offer no further information at this time, so

569
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.519
you yeah, so the possibility that this individual was literally

570
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:36.480
driving him so he would just look like he was

571
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:40.079
asleep in the seat basically, but he was working it.

572
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.839
Yepy you.

573
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.319
Now evidence for us to cover the salt that I

574
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:54.319
sent you guys, I'm just listening. But yeah, definitely Jack

575
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.000
was there. There was a reason.

576
00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:01.400
I'm looking forward to it. I'm really I'm I'm hype

577
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.559
that go ahead do with this. This always saw already,

578
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.599
but this one's worth double mentioning. This one's worth mentioning

579
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.000
many times because I think Harriet nailed at one twitch

580
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.799
with her observations. Well.

581
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.960
She also stated that she thought she thought she knew

582
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.519
the voice, and yes, we did already talk about this one,

583
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:17.160
so I don't need it.

584
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:18.759
I don't really need to go back over it.

585
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.960
But your contention is is that there's evidence of inside

586
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.559
crime scene knowledge and that her number was unlisted.

587
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.359
So whoever called her and said the words to her.

588
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:32.799
That they're jacking off or I want to I'm going

589
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:34.519
to come over and stick my three.

590
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:39.440
Three keywords Dick, Jack and King or what I see,

591
00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:42.279
and I think what Harriet was pointing out to. That's

592
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:46.480
I'm parsing this, splitting up jacking, just Jack and King,

593
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:51.480
and we know that there's many loss. This woman's I'm

594
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:55.400
just turned up and he is calling, you know, right

595
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.519
when the cops are there and talk to her. You

596
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:58.359
know who does that?

597
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:04.160
So she's She states that the voice was familiar, but

598
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.160
it was muffled and she could not tell who it was.

599
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.799
So if she recognized the voice, the person could likely

600
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:13.359
have already had her phone number, and it's just pranking her.

601
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:18.240
Can I say something really quick? The salve that I

602
00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:20.200
got out of all of this, which you sent me,

603
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:25.640
It brings up about the local exchange carrier, and that

604
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.519
is at the time. Uh well, apparently Jack and his

605
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.400
crew were involved, and you know, knew everybody's phone numbers. Okay,

606
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:36.920
we're going to see that in the salt. Yes, so

607
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:43.400
l e c uh right there in Detroit News. Yes

608
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:44.200
we knew.

609
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:48.279
That the number. Yes, yes, Nolan.

610
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:52.200
It's all men in those days and probably still have.

611
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.160
They have more knowledge than everybody else. They can get

612
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:58.960
way back when you could they could they knew numbers.

613
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.480
They could go up to a fall and dial a

614
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.039
certain number and would tell them what that number was.

615
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.039
So you didn't even have you know, what I'm saying

616
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:08.920
I had to do is look your handset up, dial

617
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.160
a certain number, and it would ring back to you

618
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.480
what that number was, and it was on listed number.

619
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:17.799
You had it right away. Sophisticated. Sophistication is the key

620
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:20.440
thing that I'm that I'm trying to point with all

621
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.319
that I present in the way I present it. But

622
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.599
go ahead, this is a is a great one because

623
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:29.400
you got three very prime keywords there and more via Harriet.

624
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:31.759
So that's cool, very cool. Go ahead.

625
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:34.880
Now you put this map out and you were noting

626
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:36.920
that these two lines are parallel.

627
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.599
Well, and then I'll tell you why why I decided

628
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.200
to do that Because in one of the or at

629
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.440
least one of the documents, they're talking about where the

630
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:48.680
head was facing on these victims, where were the face

631
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.480
you know, like that was important to the cops, train cops, investigators,

632
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:54.839
you know what I mean. I thought, okay, what about

633
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.799
the directions, Well, there's some parallel lines here from where

634
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.799
you know, where the body, where the person was deducted,

635
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:06.480
and where they're deposited. That happened twice. There's organization. That's

636
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:11.320
it's a it's a what's the what's the word order

637
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:12.760
out of chaos? One oh one?

638
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.079
The organized, that's what you were going to say. I

639
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.840
felt it coming, And that's that's psychological.

640
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.679
And that's in the book mind Hunter as being a

641
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.559
very important aspect of the organized serial killer. You get

642
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.840
into that in the Sounds of the Lambs film too,

643
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.239
by the way. But right, anyway, all right, so.

644
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:37.079
On our next one, we have a heavily annotated one

645
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:37.760
that you have here.

646
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:38.719
Can you see this one?

647
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.880
I can? And I was going to say that this

648
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.599
is I believe tied to this is later than Stevens.

649
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:49.159
You got a date on this one.

650
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:53.159
Yeah, let's see, Yeah, May nineteen seventy eight, so this

651
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:54.159
is a day after.

652
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.440
Right. I could not. I had to jump ahead because

653
00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:59.920
this one was too important to me, because you know,

654
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.760
I've had this thing about talking about he was the

655
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.239
Zodia killer, was talking about buttons, buttons, buttons, he spelled

656
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:12.519
them and everything. And here's a psychic says, buttons button

657
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:17.159
is somehow involved? What the hell? You know? So whatever,

658
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:19.400
I rode here on the sides was what I and

659
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.119
I mark on something that I retracted or whatever.

660
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.199
Site you right, well, let me let me read this

661
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:26.760
real quick so that they understand the premise of this.

662
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.360
So this is the following thoughts that were received by

663
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.320
miss Harris and her group of psychics.

664
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.320
So how we feel about that?

665
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:37.119
All right?

666
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:40.079
So it says north or northwest basement entrance to building

667
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:43.280
where Tim was held. So there there you put out

668
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.039
the four other reasons related to evidence I have yet

669
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.320
to report. This statement is compatible with an exact location

670
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.599
that I think holds a high probability of being the

671
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:55.440
correct location. And I'm perfectly certain of this. No, but

672
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.800
hopefully we'll see how it plays out. So she goes

673
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:02.760
on to say that Donnie in don Igen don again

674
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.239
don Egan. So these are the names the psychics are

675
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.440
I'm assuming are coming up with p W one zero

676
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:11.039
one nine.

677
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:12.199
I don't know what that means.

678
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:18.480
Spiritual beige plaid jacket, red blue vertical lines, invited Tim

679
00:36:18.519 --> 00:36:23.079
to see Rocky A a woman knows and.

680
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:27.840
That that may be this this Carol, let's her face.

681
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.039
The phone book that I said that has the receipts

682
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:33.199
and is within the center of all of this.

683
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.239
The crimes that are happening.

684
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.800
Let's see invited a woman knows not responsible for one

685
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:44.119
of the four killings, but we have seven here, so

686
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:47.480
they're only attributing, like I said, four murders when I

687
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.119
think that legitimately the.

688
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.840
First two or three should be coupled with these four.

689
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:54.800
So let's see.

690
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.679
A shrine is involved somehow, and we know that there's

691
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.360
a I'm in the League City desk with Tim Miller's

692
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:06.679
daughter Laura Miller. The suspect I Tim believes came back

693
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:10.239
and created a shrine on her shallow grave where she

694
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:15.719
was found. Let's see nose organist named Bill. Now we

695
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:19.519
come up with an organist in the little list letter,

696
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:19.840
is it?

697
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:23.679
Yes? Yeah, And we.

698
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:26.239
Haven't seen the little list yet letter yet that one's

699
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:30.039
still to come out. And he talks about the organist.

700
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:33.400
This person seeing an organist now driving a red or

701
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:40.719
brown Pontiac priest father or deacon involved. Homosexual button is

702
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.960
somehow involved. Gripper clamp. Another person was with Tim in

703
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:50.199
the parking lot. No plan to win and where children

704
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.960
are taken. Suicide has been contemplated.

705
00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:57.920
Well, the suicide grave.

706
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.800
Grave, it will to well.

707
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:05.159
And we know that there's plenty of indications that the

708
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:07.920
killer or the suspect in these cases has stated he

709
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:10.480
was going to take his own life. I want to

710
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:13.440
go back and now read the doctor Danto letter from Alan,

711
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:16.280
because I think that he talked about wanting to But

712
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.119
I have to go back to confirm that we're going

713
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:21.199
to be coming up on that soon anyways. So more

714
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:25.440
that Terry Be's comment on this. However, this particular line,

715
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:29.159
so no plan to win and where children are taken? However,

716
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.400
this particular line I adamantly disagree with because the evidence

717
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:36.400
clearly shows otherwise. As a matter of fact, I'm skeptical

718
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.559
and very suspicious of this document. There seems to be

719
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.480
several instances of false notions that have been planted in

720
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.480
order to throw the police off the trail, so to speak.

721
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.360
This statement by me is faulty, and I'll explain why.

722
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.840
And then in the text messages it's posted with, And

723
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:53.920
what was that statement that's say, because the evidence was

724
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:57.519
clearly shows otherwise as when okay, but as to where

725
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.559
they were taken, that was certainly planned out in advance.

726
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.360
So what was it that you found faulty about that?

727
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.639
I wrote this a long time ago, say to give

728
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:10.199
me a moment together my thoughts. Let's see what they're

729
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.760
not like, and I just put across over it. But okay,

730
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:18.280
but where Yeah, I'm saying that's fiction because they had

731
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.960
this is fiction. No plan. If somebody said that, wait

732
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.360
a minute, you're holding these kids for how long you're

733
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:27.000
going to have a plan, orhere, you're going to take

734
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:29.159
them right when you're holding for the long period of time.

735
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.960
So you've got a piece of fiction there that I

736
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:34.679
circled in green. So I'm just saying, this is just something.

737
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.400
I'm going to tell you something about it, and I'll

738
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.159
make my comments about psychics. I'm not productive. When the

739
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:42.119
cops get to where they have nor their leads, they

740
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.920
will revert and they will use psychics. And it's not

741
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:50.400
I'm not pulling psychics altogether, but usually the ones that

742
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:53.280
are that you can count are the ones that aren't

743
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:55.960
going to make positive statements. They're going to say, I'm

744
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:57.840
getting this signal, and then they're going to say, but

745
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:58.880
I don't know what it means.

746
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:01.920
They're not going to right, And I don't really want

747
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:02.400
to focus.

748
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:05.079
I don't really want to focus on what psychics have

749
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:05.480
to say.

750
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:06.880
I mean, you can take from it.

751
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.599
You can add to it a million different ways from Sunday. Yes,

752
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:14.679
to have some lead to good solves. Absolutely that that

753
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:16.559
is a variable that happens.

754
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:19.880
But however they roll out is however they roll out.

755
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:21.840
But interesting that they're talking about buttons.

756
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.639
I qualify my feeling as an upper left hand corner

757
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.280
about what I think about psychics. And it's not that

758
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:29.639
big a deal. It's pretty much so.

759
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.320
Everybody else going to feel about psychics, right, Yeah, So

760
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:35.559
we don't know it is what it is. Moving on though,

761
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.280
did you did send over a Regional Crime Detection Laboratory

762
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:43.519
list of evidence forensic evidence that was found on Stevens

763
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:47.199
So it says that number one through number four was

764
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:50.800
fur and hair from victim, swab from ice chest in

765
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:53.280
suspects vehicle hair from ice chest.

766
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:55.880
And I'm not sure what suspect.

767
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:57.360
They're talking about here at this point to see what

768
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:03.679
I can tell, chiefly Southfield Police Department. I wonder if

769
00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:08.760
SFPD could be Southfield Police Department. No, because Southfield is

770
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:13.519
one word, it would be SPD. Yeah, Southfield PD.

771
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:16.280
All right, if we can find out later about that.

772
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.719
But they are talking about swabs from the rear seat

773
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.800
hair for and dirt from suspects vehicle, hair from floor

774
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.239
of the suspects vehicle, victim's jacket, victims pants. So how

775
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.159
are they are they saying they found all of these

776
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.079
things in one suspects car.

777
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:35.280
No, No, and a lot of that stuff's going to

778
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.480
be No. This is just a person that's be hand

779
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:41.400
of this stuff is Charlotte L. Day. And there's other

780
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:44.400
documents that I sent you later in the week where

781
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.119
she's complaining about the fact that it would have been

782
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:49.880
nice to have some other stuff at the same time

783
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.480
that they'll miss I may get to that.

784
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.719
So if you start speaking about something that I may

785
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.079
already have in here, all right, So here.

786
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:02.000
Go ahead, But I would you know, can I finish.

787
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:09.079
Hair from the floor is suspects vehicle, victims jacket, victims pants,

788
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:13.800
suspects jacket, victims, boots, victims known hair, red fibers from

789
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:18.559
suspects vehicle, red fiber from victim's pants. So they are

790
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:22.079
definitely doing some cross connection or at least some testing.

791
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.800
It says no hairs were found from the vehicle that

792
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:27.480
were the same as the victim's known head hair, so

793
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.880
they didn't find any of Stebbens hair inside no fibers

794
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.760
were found on the victim's clothing that were the same

795
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:36.800
as the fibers from the vehicle, So it looks like

796
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.679
they're excluding whoever this person is. And no blood or

797
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.360
other significant stains were identified on the swabs, right.

798
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:50.079
And of course what the suspect is, because that's probably

799
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:51.920
not information they want to even have.

800
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:56.440
Right, So it says number one dirt from parking lot

801
00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:59.960
near body debrieze contains broken glass, small stone, soil into

802
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.960
bacco fragments. Nothing of known significance was found. Number two

803
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:09.239
dirt from underbody. This debris consists primarily of vegetation, presumably

804
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:10.960
presumably native to.

805
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.840
The area and is not unique in character.

806
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.239
Blue woolf fibers similar to those from the blanket used

807
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.039
to cover the body are present. So he was found

808
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:23.199
with a blanket covering him.

809
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:25.559
That's the other thing she's going to complain about is

810
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:28.239
that she did not get that blanket given to her

811
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.840
her at the time or something, and that's left up

812
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.800
in the air. So you're asked me a question I

813
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:34.960
can't clarify for you.

814
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.920
Right, So, blue wool fibers similar to those from the

815
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.320
blanket used to cover the body are present.

816
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:42.960
Dirt found the near near the body.

817
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.840
This debris contains common vegetation, soil, broken glass, white white

818
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:50.280
rodent hairs, black rodent hairs, and one human head hair

819
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.800
approximately three inches in length, wavy and brown in color.

820
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.639
No other hairs were found in other submitted items and

821
00:43:56.679 --> 00:43:59.840
correspond to this hair and its present is not presence

822
00:43:59.880 --> 00:44:02.159
is not likely to be significant.

823
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:03.360
Small hand to out.

824
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:06.679
No blood stains are characteristic fibers or hairs were found.

825
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.440
Blue parka with hood This jacket shows normal soiling from

826
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.880
were on both the outer surfaces and inside neck area.

827
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.880
Blood stains are present on the hooded portion blue jeans.

828
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.400
The genes are in good clean condition, with the exception

829
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.519
of stained areas on the right rear and right leg.

830
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.159
It seems probable that this is a mixture of dirt

831
00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:31.719
and oil from the parking lot where the body was found.

832
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:34.920
Trace evidence includes red fibers that correspond to known red

833
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.519
fibers from the American legion hall white wool, red wool,

834
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:42.400
two short yellow synthetic fibers, one yellow gold synthetic fiber,

835
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.519
blue wool, one human head hair two and three quarter

836
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.519
inches long, rodent hairs, and dog hairs. The trace evidence

837
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.119
is of questionable value. Rodent hairs are not only common

838
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:55.639
and of wide distribution, but are known to be present

839
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:57.960
at the site where the body was found. The dog

840
00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:59.960
hairs are very similar to dog hairs on the block

841
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.960
get used to cover the body, and especially since relatively

842
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:06.280
few were found. White bull fibers are common and many

843
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.000
are present on the blanket. This blanket is also the

844
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.599
probable source of the blue wool and may very well

845
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.559
be the source of any foreign fibers and hairs recovered

846
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:15.280
from the clothing.

847
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:16.559
Black belt.

848
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:19.880
This was intact and in normal position on the jeans

849
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:23.159
black rubber boots. The upper portion of the boots is clean,

850
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.599
with soil present on the soles. A small smear of

851
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.760
blue paint is present on the left boot. This is

852
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.559
This has the characteristic of a decorative type paint and

853
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.199
its origin is yet uncount unaccounted for. The location and

854
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:39.679
small amount do not suggest a highly primitive value.

855
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:45.079
One point number one point blue paint. Blue decorative paint

856
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.320
will show up on the left boot. Blue paint will

857
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:54.360
show up on Robinson's bite. Go ahead, proceed right.

858
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.000
The socks show normal wear, since washing is indicated by

859
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:01.599
both their appearance and body odor. Underpants, Urine and fecal

860
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:04.719
stains are present. The condition of the underpants, disregarding the

861
00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.360
fecal and urine stains, is consistent with their having been

862
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:09.760
worn for a relatively extended period.

863
00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:12.559
Of time, and no semen was found. T shirt.

864
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:16.039
The T shirt is soiled and suggests considerable wear since washing.

865
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.039
Both the stained and soiled appearance and the presence of

866
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:24.360
perspiration odors support this contention. Blood stains are present. Red sweatshirt.

867
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:28.039
The sweat shirt, like the genes, is clean. In contrast

868
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.639
to the undergarments. No body order or significant staining is present.

869
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:34.039
There is a small amount of blood present at the neck.

870
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:36.920
It is unfortunate that the dirt and debris samples from

871
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.119
the parking lot and the blanket used to cover the

872
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.960
body were not made available to the laboratory until May.

873
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:43.000
Of nineteen seventy seven.

874
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:45.960
It would have been particularly useful to know that a

875
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.199
dirty blanket had been used to cover the body, and

876
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.960
that this blanket is a probable source of trace evidence

877
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:52.199
present on the clothing.

878
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.360
I think that's very important.

879
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:57.840
Right, But they didn't do it well.

880
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.119
And interestingly enough, so I was going to say they

881
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:04.840
washed his outer clothing, but had him sitting in his

882
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.679
undergarments for the entire time that he was captive.

883
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:11.800
Well, it's hard to tell. I can tell you from

884
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.559
reading that. I you know, you you have to read

885
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:18.519
it and decipher yourself. But I tend to think that, well,

886
00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:19.599
i'd be speculated.

887
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:23.119
Well, it's right right, Nolan like it literally was saying that.

888
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:26.320
I mean it was the undergarments had been worn this

889
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:28.800
entire time, that they were full of the body odor.

890
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.280
They look like that they've been worn.

891
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:32.440
And then these other items looked like they had been

892
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:35.320
cleaned and placed on him after the fact. And so

893
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.199
the suspect then took a blanket and covered him with it,

894
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:40.719
and that's where most of this trace evidence was found

895
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.199
on the body because of the blanket.

896
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:50.960
Perhaps didn't have that blanket, So I don't know for sure.

897
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:53.599
I did to analyze it.

898
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:58.840
Right exactly with this, With this case, you're going to

899
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.519
get a lot of stuff like that and you're not

900
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:02.119
going to like it. Sorry.

901
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:08.840
So you had some things that you had written in here.

902
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.480
Are you able to read this, Terry?

903
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:14.360
Yeah, let's see several years ago, my former next door

904
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:17.800
neighbor at the time, oh an assistant chief of police

905
00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.840
minneapus PD. You also have a very bright and level

906
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.639
headed black guy. He told me. A lot of cops

907
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.800
are assholes, and that the job tends to harden people

908
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.880
even further because of the fact they're dealing with very

909
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.440
negative situations on a daily basis. He said the job

910
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:39.320
was also a magnant for some very bad actors. For

911
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:43.679
a prime example of a grossly incompetent cop, look at

912
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:46.599
the footage of the former detective Linda Aren't on the

913
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:50.119
Boulder DP bad Police Department.

914
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:51.760
Why are we going into her?

915
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:53.159
Well, I don't know. You put it up for me

916
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:53.840
to read.

917
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:57.960
This was connected to OCTK, so I'm not sure why that.

918
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:00.320
So go go down to the next paragraph for us

919
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.280
as bt W because I think you go back.

920
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:06.039
Into about that the middles paragraph that has to do

921
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:06.360
with me.

922
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.480
I don't have that. I don't have that kind of time,

923
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:10.880
and I'm trying to stay stuck with.

924
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:16.599
Miss Cheetle and the right prompts life, which kissed me off,

925
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:19.000
and so I had to read this. I know what

926
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:19.679
I was leading into.

927
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:26.440
Okay, no, no, no, no, Terry, Terry, we're out of time.

928
00:49:26.679 --> 00:49:27.360
I'm sorry.

929
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:31.320
I was trying to just get you read in regards

930
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:33.440
to O. C. C. K. And I didn't know that

931
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:37.320
JBR was in there. Well, I didn't know the youth

932
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:42.079
of JBR in the middle of it. But I'm just saying,

933
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:44.719
I know, I know, we'll have to come back to it.

934
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:47.719
I just realized that we're literally down to our final seconds.

935
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.079
You guys. I want to thank everybody for being here.

936
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.400
We will pick this up next week and continue on

937
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:57.880
with the additional documents from Terry. Sounds good, awesome, a

938
00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:59.960
great than anything, you know.

939
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:01.079
Thank you, Terry.

940
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:03.480
I'm anxious to hear that, Harriet, I got to hear that.

941
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:06.400
I'm really anxious.

942
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:07.920
I want coming back to you, all right.

943
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:10.920
I'm getting out something to Parry bye bye.

944
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:11.599
That'd be great.

945
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:12.599
Hi, guys,