Sept. 20, 2024

Oakland County Child Killer Part 4

Oakland County Child Killer Part 4

Continue with the FOIA files from Cathy Broad on the Oakland County Child Killer in the case of Mark Stebbins. Jack’s whereabouts in Cotton, Minnesota are confirmed with a permit request for dynamite. Jack is within driving distance of the Michigan...

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Continue with the FOIA files from Cathy Broad on the Oakland County Child Killer in the case of Mark Stebbins. Jack’s whereabouts in Cotton, Minnesota are confirmed with a permit request for dynamite. Jack is within driving distance of the Michigan murders and his wife has family in the Michigan area as well. Jack has items that connect to GMAC and Southfield, Michigan in his belongings, and a phone book was discovered for this time frame with receipts coinciding within days of the abductions.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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Let's welcome everybody to the show today. I'd like to

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start with Terry.

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Batcher, Hia Kids Hyahia Hiahia, Nolan del Campo, Good morning, everybody,

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Good morning, and Harriet Soouche by phone.

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Yes, good morning. This is going to go.

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Good morning. Oh I'm going to start the morning great

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because yesterday, out of the blue, I had a friend

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that I'd known for about twenty five years show up.

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I paid him to do some yardwork and clean gutters,

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were getting ready for the rain to come in, and

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he wins tickets. Well, his friend won tickets which he

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then handed down to us for a cover band for

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led Zeppelin last night. I have to tell you that

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Zeppelin USA is one of the best cover bands I

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think I've ever seen, and they played out at Thunder Valley,

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So of course on the way out the door, you've

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got to drop a couple of Nichols, right, just to

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have some fun. I actually won thirteen hundred dollars before

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I walked out the ball. You're right after the last

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couple of weeks, I promise you that there could not

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have been a better night coming for me in the universe.

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Will provide Oh man, the most is absolutely amazing.

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Well, this is a cover band, so we didn't see

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led Zeppelin. So yeah, anyways, we are back on the

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We are back on the Oakland County child killer, and

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of course I got a bit of information from my

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good friend, I'm gonna say my good friend Tony. Even

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though we've not met in person, he randomly sends me

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bits of information and things to kind of clear up

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questions that I've had. I thought one was really interesting

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because he stated that taught T o T. It must

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have been something that I read inside of the documents

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that you provided me. Terry and yes is a police

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slang term that stands turned over to another agency. So

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we're seeing a lot of turnovers, obviously, and that kind

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of brought up some of your solves, Harriet, where you

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had said taught Harmon, could it be turned over to Harmon?

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Could it be you know what I'm saying, Like that

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whole top thing just kind of bling blinged in my mind.

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It's a way to dig deeper into the rabbit hole

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right now.

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And of course he also indicated that the SFPD, so

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we talked about SFPD last week being in those reports,

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he did indicate that that was an acronym for Southfield

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Police Department. So evidently there's yet there's evidently one more

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SFPD out there that we know about. But he did

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send me a couple of articles, one of them from

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the Detroit News. The second one that he sent me

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I've actually decided I'm not going to read about today.

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But it does implicate a well known pedophilia crime that

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was going on in that area off of a island

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in the middle of Lake Michigan, between both Wisconsin and Michigan,

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which would even be a closer drive for Jack if

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he was the person that was getting rid of these

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bodies or responsible for killing and disposing of these children.

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And I thought that was interesting so Fox Island, Fox Island.

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Yes, it's real close though to the western shore and

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all of our eastern shore of Lake Michigan. So you

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don't want to be in the middle or anything.

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No, no, no, it's up at the top. I think,

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fly to it.

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I know that, right.

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Another Epstein thing here going on? All right, Well, that

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may explain the holding of these kids for X amount

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of time. So anyways, from the Detroit News, he did

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give me this one article which I thought was interesting.

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It's pretty quick, I'm going to read. It says fragmentation

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of police agencies made a vivid horror story and the

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investigation of the child murders in Oakland County Sheriff Johannes F.

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Spreeen has charged, I want to talk to you about

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the problems we encountered, the shortcomings of our solutions, and

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how we should plan for the future occurrences. He told

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the conference, I must tell you from the outset that

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the events will sadden you, his parents and infuriate you

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as professional police officers. Spring's comments about Mark Seven's case.

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Although the state Police maintained two relatively close crime labs

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and the Oakland County Sheriff's Department also has an excellent

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crime wham available. None were called to process the scene.

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By the time the investigator from Oakland County Medical Examiner's

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Office had arrived, the body had been removed to the

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Southfield Police Department. When the body finally arrived at the morgue,

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it was devoid of all clothes. No one really knows

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what might have been found at the scene had proper

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crime scene procedures been followed and a crime lab present.

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Detroit Police failed to call a crime lab to process

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the scene where the body of Jill Robinson was found.

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Noting the similarities in the two cases, it was suggested

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that a coordinated effort involving the State Police, Sheriff's Department,

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and local authorities involved be implemented in an attempt to

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solve the crimes. Spring said. The suggestion was submitted to

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the local agencies by the state Police and the offer

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was declined. Berkeley police refused to offer the offer of

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assistance of the State Police and Sheriff's department after the

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disappearance of ten year old Christine Miley of Berkeley, and

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only after her body was found in Franklin did the

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Franklin chief turn the investigation over to the state Police

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spring Set. The News reported that, according to screen the afternoon,

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thirty investigators committed themselves to find the murder of Christine Miley,

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and the Oakland County task Force was implemented. The work

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of the task force was hampered from the start by

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many problems. It was discovered that one jurisdiction charged with

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the investigation had virtually no report, and in another jurisdiction,

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evidence had been misplaced and mishandled. The investigation. Investigative team

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was forced to investigate one of the slayings from the

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very beginning. Another agency was reluctant to submit the report

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to the task force. Discussing the murder of Tim Kingspreen

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criticized the task force for allowing three hundred Tri County

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investigators to flood the area where the body was dropped off.

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The Detroit Free Press quoted Spreen as saying, during the

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King homicide in March nineteen seventy seven, numerous bits of

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information were lost forever due to inadequate reporting procedures and

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unfamiliarity with the case.

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Wow, I was previo. I'm glad you brought this up,

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because I had forgotten I'd read this a few years

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ago already.

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Well, I think it's extremely interesting to note that we

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have the crossing of jurisdictions, just like we did in

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the Zodiac case. So we've got in many of these cases.

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Actually they're picked up in one place, they're dropped off

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in another, and then who's going to fight over who

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has the actual investigative protocol or the right to investigate

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particular case.

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If you do the deep guys like I've done on

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reading some of the documents, that will piss you off

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because all they gave her was ton of redundant documents,

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so we're basically worthless.

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Yeah, and redacted, I'm sure to high heavens. So there's

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not only much you can do some reaction, but.

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Of a lot of things missing. The biggest thing that

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pisses me off, I can't find it. The reports clearly

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said that Stebans had sperm in his throat, okay whereover and.

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We can't find that anywhere else. I think we're going

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to get to that, Terry. I think you're a little

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bit ahead of me, but I think that I have

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that in the presentation now. So actually that is my

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next first slide. So you had indicated that and this

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is where we were talking before. I didn't know who

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the O, the K, and the D was on this

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question and exam. This was actually the interview with doctor Olson,

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and you had that notated. I just didn't have that

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in front of me the first time when we talked

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about it, and you did actually notate underneath there that

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they found sperm in the throat and that Your question

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is is where's the additional evidence about that?

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Right?

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And that's a cops were saying that that K is

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for one of the officials that was there. But I

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think detect if you read all this stuff like I have,

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there were some good cops and there were some very

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bad cops. There were some very bad actors involved in

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the whole works.

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And we'll talk about you know, some of these statements

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that were made, like one of them said there was

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a lot of blood though there was a lot of bleeding,

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because as I got there some of your other documents

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it indicates that there wasn't a lot of blood. So

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that was.

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That that was downplayed from that point or up until

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that point of this. This is a later document, So

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go ahead, well and.

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This is your this is your email to me that

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you said BTW whatever happened to the sperm evidence in

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Mark Stevens murder case. It was stated as being a fact,

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but it's not listed in the evidence list. I don't

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know that. If do you want to read the rest

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of this, can you recall only really I.

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Can recall most of it. You know, I was talking

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about that flowery blanket, which we're going to get to.

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That was that the Yeah, I can give you a

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quick summary of this.

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They actually that's what I'm going to That's what I'm

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going to read in the end, is so that everybody

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understands that Chris Bush was thoroughly investigated for these murders

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and he was actually found innocent. There was no there

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was other than this picture of who they presumed to

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be Mark Stebbins. He was actually cleared of these crimes.

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And that's based on a twenty twenty three report as

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of today, as of twenty twenty three.

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But the blue paint on the left boot and the

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blue paint on the bicycle was part of my point

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on this document. So I don't really need to read that.

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People can screenshot this if they want to read it

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over it's but I thought that Harriet's point about Dick,

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Jack and King on that document that sudden we talked about.

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That's why I wrote about that. I still think that

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that's huge.

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I think that's big.

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Well, and I found a lot of correlation to blue

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in these murders that they're either wearing blue jackets, blue sweaters, blue,

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I mean blue seemed to be a common theme of

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colors that were coming in. So when I hear something

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like blue paint, that doesn't shock me. It actually kind

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of just it's right in.

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Well, I think blue left boot being a reference to

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the Democrat Party.

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Yeah, there's so much, so much needed for that word blue.

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That's why I just wanted to energet real quick. Sometimes

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you're reading what somebody says is the evidence, and then

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it just anagrams out with something else, and then you

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find out that they weren't really wearing blue shoes. You

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know that, it's just part of Oh my god, this

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amazing world of Jack and his crew and code.

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Anyways, keep going, Well, this body was actually covered in

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a blue blanket. Now where the blue blanket came from

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is unknown, and of course we have the crime lab

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that's upset that that blanket wasn't provided because it would

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have had a lot of forensic evidence on it. But

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that's not to say that somebody at the crime scene

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didn't actually cover that body after the fact. If nobody's

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making adequate reports and finding out what's really going on,

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that blanket could have came in a later time and

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any trace evidence could have been picked up on the

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ground that was surrounding that body to begin with. And

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when you lift that blanket up to remove that body,

224
00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:08.279
you've now just kind of fluttered all that trace evidence

225
00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:09.279
all over the body.

226
00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.840
It's Hollywood fiction, is what it is. No investigator with

227
00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.840
their salt even covers up those bodies whatsoever at a

228
00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:18.399
crime scene.

229
00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.919
Well, you got to reset. These people are not used

230
00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:23.720
to this. They're not used to us going on evidently,

231
00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:25.679
I mean, based on what we've just listened to.

232
00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:30.360
Look, they didn't have a look just like body right there, but.

233
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:34.200
Just like well that's where the blue blanket is I'm

234
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.960
talking about. Evidently there was a blue blanket on him,

235
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.799
and that blue blanket did not make it into the

236
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.720
crime lab, and she was upset about it. Needless to say,

237
00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.120
it shows that the body was discovered at eleven forty am,

238
00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.639
and that was based on eyewitness reports who had made

239
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.440
a walk through at approximately nine thirty there was no body,

240
00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.679
and then they estimated the time sometime after nine thirty,

241
00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:59.320
but obviously before the crime or the police were on

242
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:04.159
the scene. It does say that that the let's see

243
00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.919
parking lot and not lead something blue which appeared to

244
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:10.960
be a jacket and blue jeans. So now we've got

245
00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:15.240
a blue jacket and blue jeans. And then Marks then called, Oh,

246
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:17.960
so Mark is the actual person? This I can't I

247
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.120
can't really read his last name, and I'm sure I

248
00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:22.480
would slaughter it if I tried to say it. It

249
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:25.159
was an actual man named Mark that found the body

250
00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:31.639
of Mark Stevens and he called the police what's that?

251
00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:41.399
But I didn't hear it. I want to laugh to yeah,

252
00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:42.320
I couldn't make it.

253
00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.000
Hell, it was three or four in that name Bred German,

254
00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.840
that was a German community. It was all right.

255
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:53.919
So what that means, Yes, that is where the blood

256
00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.679
settles after somebody dies, and it usually gives you an

257
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.279
idea of how their body was positioned, whether or not

258
00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.720
they were moved, whether or not they died in one position,

259
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.720
and then was you know, set upright as you had indicated.

260
00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:07.519
You thought that maybe he had been writing in the

261
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.159
car with this individual to be dumped off, and he

262
00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:13.080
was positioned in a sitting up position, and it shows

263
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.720
that the lividity was on the left and bottom of

264
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.279
the body.

265
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.399
Well, I think that, you know, I'm a jumping the gun,

266
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:23.000
I know, but I think that I really think the

267
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.919
Stevens murder was a hit at Robert Stebbens, as Harry

268
00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.360
had pointed out her saulves, I really do make perfect sense.

269
00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.519
Well, it shows that the next showed signs of rope burn,

270
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.039
as did the wrists, so we've got tying of the

271
00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.759
of the individual. The ankles showed evidence of having been

272
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.159
tied or handcuffed, probably the latter from the appearance of

273
00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:49.639
the marks. So they definitely are restraining these children. Another poor,

274
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.840
really poorly another thing that you brought up was the

275
00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.480
murder of twelve year old Mark Stebbens, a four month

276
00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.639
old murder. His body was found in the rear of

277
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.480
self Field office building parking on on February nineteenth. Victim

278
00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:10.399
of a vicious sexual assault died from asphyxiation due to smothering,

279
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:15.879
and he had been tied up for a This is

280
00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:17.039
a really bad copy.

281
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:18.240
That's a press.

282
00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:22.759
Unidentified amount of time, I think it says. Anyways, so

283
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.960
this was a news release, yes, from the City of Southfield.

284
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.639
And then the next one is on the Secret Witness program.

285
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.440
So you had a little bit to say about that.

286
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:32.960
Go ahead and tell us.

287
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.879
Well, Secret Witness is the thing that Harriet's has recently solved,

288
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.480
and she was saying that she was able to do

289
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:43.039
it via the header that was on another document about

290
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:47.399
where where the Secret Witness was document was program was

291
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.039
started at the news agency. So and let's see what

292
00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.639
I put on here while I was, you know, we

293
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.600
get to the actual study of the structure the surface

294
00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.960
of the document. Disease are all over the thing. Those ends,

295
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:00.960
they're all tilted.

296
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.919
No no, no, no no no, I'm not looking at We're

297
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:06.759
just trying to discuss what your thought is based on

298
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.480
the Secret Witness program on this.

299
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:10.000
Well it was it was what I wrote on the

300
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.000
left here and he tried news Secret Service Witness program

301
00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.840
will provide the key evidence that shows that John Walker,

302
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.159
Tarren Junior, Ecade, Zodiac Jack pen the very cryptic Secret

303
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.440
Witness document. It also proves that he was a prime

304
00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:27.759
operative in the Occk murders and at the time that

305
00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.480
he abducted and murdered Jill Robinson, though I might have

306
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:35.759
to retract that that same document shows that the main

307
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:40.759
target is Timothy King, because the part of the string

308
00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.759
of documents that started on August eighth of nineteen sixty

309
00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:50.159
nine with this is the zodiac speak King capital kN

310
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.360
G documents, which there are many of. There's a seventy

311
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:55.799
eight document too, which we'll see eventually.

312
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.039
Right, I want to note I want to note that

313
00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.480
in that article I'll be reading at the end is

314
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.359
kind of a summary for this does indicate that the

315
00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.279
original murders that we looked at, because I thought there

316
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.519
was seven murders involved and there was a potential for

317
00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.119
them all to be connected, they actually were able to

318
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.680
identify suspects through DNA, I believe on two of those victims.

319
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.720
So I'll be correcting that in the presentation and obviously

320
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.319
not attributing those We also have to keep in mind

321
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.839
that I've always thought that there was a potential for

322
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.200
Jack being the author in these cases, which would confuse

323
00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.319
the crime the people involved, you know what I'm saying.

324
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:35.480
So if one person is molesting them and leaving behind,

325
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.960
you know, trace evidence of sperm or semen or saliva

326
00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.279
or anything like that. It's not going to match the

327
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.759
person's fingerprints who killed them, and it's not going to

328
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.039
match the handwriting of the person who's attempting to take

329
00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:51.000
credit for the crime. So we've got like this multi

330
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.799
person evidence pile, and when it all doesn't match up

331
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.039
to one person, it's very hard to close a case

332
00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:58.640
on anyone individual.

333
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:04.319
Right next was like, I just wanted to say real quick,

334
00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.599
I see a see it. From my view, there were

335
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.599
people like ed Bell, who's involved with a whole bunch

336
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.640
of pedophile crap, and John Wallers, all kinds of stuff

337
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.079
that they took advantage. They took advantage of this situation

338
00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:20.920
and said, well, since they're not going to solve the

339
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.240
main targets, they're not going to solve the others either,

340
00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.079
which is a sixth situation.

341
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.599
Sure, I'm really anxious to discuss Ed Bell. That's an

342
00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.039
interesting subject. We do that when we get to that.

343
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:38.200
Here is one witness, Yes, go ahead.

344
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.000
Yes, that August eighth, nineteen sixty nine date was the

345
00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:48.440
this is Zodiac speaking letter. Yes, h coincidence, But the

346
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:51.400
ninth and tenth of sixty nine were the dates of

347
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:52.440
the tatelb.

348
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.759
Comers exactly, and I saw for as It's not as

349
00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:57.480
if we know that.

350
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.480
Auto thing is the mk altar thing is a for

351
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:05.519
real thing. And I think you're seeing all kinds of

352
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.920
mk altar victims all over the place doing murders, along

353
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:14.160
with a rant with mansive family and ed Bell, which

354
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:15.960
is what I want to talk about, and a lot

355
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.599
of people they're brainwashed to be killers. That's what ed

356
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.160
Bell complained about, was he said that someone they programmed

357
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:23.440
him to be a flasher.

358
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:28.400
Well look at look at Patty Hurst. You know she

359
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.079
she was purportedly I would call her ant victim if

360
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.519
she was a victim at all. But she supposedly completely

361
00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:38.680
brainwashed and robs a bank and then gets pardoned at

362
00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.759
a later date. Thank goodness for Daddy Hurst and all

363
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:42.319
that money.

364
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:43.599
The head of.

365
00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.400
Okay, hold on Harriet, let no one finish.

366
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.640
Go ahead, Sinq, the head of the s l A

367
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:58.759
that kidnapped Patty Hurst. He was involved in uh brainwashing

368
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.759
experiments while he was in president backa bill and in

369
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:02.559
another prison.

370
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.640
Ah, so he knew. And that's where they were. That's

371
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.000
where they were doing it in prisons, in psychiatric facilities,

372
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.240
in the military, in colleges, socialites. The list is extremely

373
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.400
long of the people they were giving these drugs to

374
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:22.160
and getting them to behave perform or get information from

375
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:24.480
others while they were in the process of doing it.

376
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.599
What were you saying, Harriet, Well, my quick contention is,

377
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.519
because we've already covered the nineteen seventy four stuff, is

378
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:39.240
that Patty Hurst was in the Hurst family's mother's womb

379
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.640
in nineteen fifty three during the height of where they're

380
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.200
going to plan to do all these things and gay

381
00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:49.519
ultra wise. And I think that because she was born

382
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.759
and then it's now twenty years later, she those events

383
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.519
are Jack's triggers. They're not supposed to be remembering a

384
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:01.359
lot of what he keeps on remembering sot.

385
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:04.160
Interestate and that's why he he's calling for the remedy, right.

386
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:10.279
All right, So because he's remembering and.

387
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.440
And that's what made him, that's what I think made

388
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:13.960
them want to then hunt him down, and him saying

389
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:15.920
I know more than you know. If you mess with me,

390
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.000
you're going to find my information all over in different

391
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:23.839
storage lockers across California. So there we do have an eyewitness.

392
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.640
This document that you provided. Terry B. Is in regards

393
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.200
to an individual. It said subject had a good view

394
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.359
of the area under question. They have a large picture

395
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:36.880
window with a chair facing towards ten Mile I don't

396
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:40.119
I think they said subject also observed a green, smaller

397
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.440
vehicle possible Pontiac or Buick, parked in the Fairfax Office

398
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.680
Plaza near the northeast side of the building. Vehicle exited

399
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.799
onto ten Mile Road approximately nine thirty to ten am.

400
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:53.920
So we are getting different, different eyewitnesses coming forward about

401
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.680
vehicle's movement in this particular case of Mark Stevens, right,

402
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:02.839
this one is this one actually says there's no witnesses

403
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.759
when the body was dropped off. So how do we

404
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.720
have witnesses that are seeing cars come in and seeing

405
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.319
cars go out? But there's no witnesses again, so it's almost.

406
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:16.119
Like bad cops. That's not a true statement. It's just

407
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.920
I think that's part of a press release again, and

408
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:24.640
it's and it's a misinformation. It's not true. Blue pants

409
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:26.519
on them on the right boot.

410
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.400
Yeah, we've already covered that. Yeah, yeah, well so but

411
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:37.440
what I noticed in this that you were saying terror? Yeah, Harriet,

412
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:40.440
hold on, What I did notice that you had it

413
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.680
in this was. It shows on number eight no blood

414
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.920
and hair were clothes from above injury, indicating clothes and

415
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.519
hair had been washed. So how does it go from

416
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:54.839
bleeding heavily, lots of blood to nothing on the The

417
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.599
information is so wishy, washing it all over the place.

418
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:02.079
Very good point. That's why I be prepared to be

419
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:03.960
pissed off when you read this stuff.

420
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.880
I'm confused, and I've only read a couple I can't

421
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.839
imagine if you had to read all this stuff as

422
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:15.359
you did. I know that this image right here is

423
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.119
a little bit blurry, but this is one of the

424
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.480
images that was found on the one ten film that

425
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:23.559
was in Jack's belongings, and it was god the image

426
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.359
of the image of a little boy that Dennis does

427
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.000
not recognize. He does not recognize it to be family,

428
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.400
he does not recognize it to be.

429
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:32.279
At that.

430
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.599
I don't know. I'm just saying, when I look at it,

431
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.519
I'm kind of like, wow, I'm getting goosebumps. It's a

432
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.799
little bit eerie about the closeness of this image. And

433
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.119
when I saw Seven's picture, I thought to myself, I

434
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.319
recalled this image that Dennis kept talking about, and I

435
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.480
don't have it here. I got to go search and

436
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.359
find it and hopefully I still have it. But it

437
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.839
actually looked like in one of the images, this boy

438
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.440
had some blood dripping down from his head, and that's

439
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.880
what Dennis believed it was, so that would coincide with

440
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.720
a head injury and bleeding from the head that we

441
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.160
have talked about in the evidence in regards to this

442
00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:10.160
particular murder.

443
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.200
So uh, they said he was a tough little kid,

444
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.160
and I would have thought.

445
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:17.920
Right right, well, but this is just a it was

446
00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:19.839
an eerie image. When I saw it, I was thinking

447
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:21.880
to my I mean, it even looks better actually on

448
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.880
my podcast here than it does blown up in front

449
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.680
of me right now, because you kind of lose some

450
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:29.559
of the detail. But when you look at this one

451
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.799
down here, I'm thinking, like, wow, this child.

452
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.559
The shape of his mouth, the shape of his eyes,

453
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:36.200
his hair.

454
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.319
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I'm not going to claim

455
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:43.480
it is I'm just saying that it was an eerie

456
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.480
Who does he have it? And this is on the

457
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:49.480
role of film with the images of what we believe

458
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.000
is the black Dohya. There's some other eerie and strange

459
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.759
images that are very very creepy, which I will show

460
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.240
at some point in time images that just don't make

461
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.119
any sense for somebody who's just taking pictures of friends

462
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:05.480
and family or otherwise. Almost again, as if it was

463
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:08.599
a snapshot of a picture. So he had this picture,

464
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:10.920
it was produced, he then took a picture of it

465
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.839
with the one ten film, just as we see with

466
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.319
the Black Dolia or the images we believe are from

467
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:18.440
the Black Doll You murder, because you can see the

468
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.359
edges of the original photograph that he captured on that

469
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:24.279
one ten film. In order to conceal it, everybody has

470
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.039
to remember that one ten film was probably just coming

471
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.240
out at this time, but certainly wasn't around in nineteen

472
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:34.799
forty nine. So to have yourself rated by the police

473
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:36.559
looking for evidence, they're not going to take one ten

474
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.200
film because it wasn't available in nineteen forty seven when

475
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.000
Black Dolia was alive.

476
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:43.559
Yeah, that's wart a copy for copy.

477
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.680
Right, So back on to Jack right now, we know

478
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.240
that in February twenty seventh, so this is after the

479
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.519
murder of Mark Stevens, and again I believe that he

480
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.119
is out in that area scoping and scouting for the

481
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.680
new house, and then he's coming back and then Dennis

482
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.279
indicates that they're going to move. So it says that

483
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.519
Jack is seen by doctor Lavorna for a work comp

484
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.960
related injury at Cameron Parkshell and he's including Tahoe City

485
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:12.039
linen and it says he's getting from the law offices

486
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.680
of Eugene C. Triester, Please be patient, we want to

487
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.920
cross examine mister or doctor Lavorna. Enclosed as a copy

488
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:24.559
of his report. And in his report, let's see impression minors.

489
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.559
So he's talking about some of his medical conditions at

490
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.920
this point, and this was just I think a brief synopsis,

491
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:34.279
so it was more or less a cover page, and

492
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.279
he's saying that there's no destructive or traumatic lesions that

493
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:42.319
are seen on his spine impressions. Researching this stuff, the

494
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:44.559
doctor claims that Jack is far more active than he

495
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.480
actually is, leading werk Coomp to believe that via callises

496
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:51.599
and scars all over Jack's hands and fresh wounds, that

497
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.359
he is actively doing more than he claims that he's

498
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.119
capable of doing, because he's telling everybody he's in bed

499
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:00.519
and he's disabled and he can't do anything. In these

500
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.200
reports that those are also kind of gone on you

501
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.640
that Jack was looking for wanting to put.

502
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.920
Him place himself back in California shortly after that murder too.

503
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.880
Absolutely, I think that a lot of things are too specifically,

504
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.880
and even some murders. So when he steps back into California,

505
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:20.119
we see another murder that could be attributed to the Zodiac,

506
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.920
making his presence still well known here as if he

507
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.799
hadn't tiptoed out somewhere else. On March fifteenth of nineteen

508
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.960
seventy six, Eugene C. Chreester files a work compsuit using

509
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.680
Jack's address in North Highlands for mailing of the copies

510
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.279
of the documents that are filed, So Jack is still

511
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.240
using the California address in nineteen seventy six at this

512
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.599
particular point in time. The attorney declares that Jack was

513
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.039
incarcerated during a portion of the claim for the deer

514
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.160
poaching incident in March seventeenth of nineteen seventy four, and

515
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.759
incapacitated for a period due to the motorcycle accident. So

516
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.480
he's basically making statements that Jack is busy and out

517
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.319
there doing some other things that we are now being

518
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:01.839
able to see he's not as bed ridden as he

519
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.160
claim to be. He also declares that what's that.

520
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.599
I doubt he was in any motorcycle accident too well.

521
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.680
I think that we do have a police report that

522
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.319
indicates when Danny Reynolds attempted to take back the motorcycle

523
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.680
because it was in his mother's name, that there was

524
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.079
damage to the motorcycle. In fact, I don't know how

525
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.400
Danny stole it unless he trailer did and pulled it away,

526
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.759
because the damage to it sounded like it had flat tires,

527
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:30.240
it had wrecked sides, it had some issues, so there

528
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.000
may be some truck to that. He declares that Jack

529
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.720
is without funds and needs money pending the move to Minnesota.

530
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.000
So on March fifteenth, nineteen seventy six, Jack's attorney again

531
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.480
appeals the work comp case. So obviously Jack has now

532
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.720
lost the work comp case. He is again moneyless, and

533
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:50.680
we see a new filing that is occurring on March fifteenth,

534
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:56.200
nineteen seventy six. Let's see the next set of San

535
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.079
Francisco murders can be in direct reaction to the denial

536
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:01.200
of his work comp claim. It seems to me that

537
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.519
there always seems to be some triggering factor, whether it's

538
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:09.160
a divorce, a separation, or something with the military, his

539
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.480
need for getting his help that he's not getting. There's

540
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.599
always something that seems to be can be considered a

541
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:17.920
trigger for him going out and doing what he's doing,

542
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.079
because again, his goal is to get these messages into

543
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.720
the newspaper, and the goal of getting these messages into

544
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:26.079
the newspaper based on here it's solved, so that he

545
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.119
can get the remedy for what it is that's ailing

546
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.599
him in his pursuit of trying to get healthier. Well,

547
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.279
so we see a couple murders.

548
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:43.480
For him, it's the remedy for a bunch of people.

549
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.240
He's looking for it, right, He pension.

550
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.799
For filing workers comp claims when it doesn't seem like

551
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:56.160
he's been that injured at either job exactly.

552
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.279
He's made a whole lot of time. Yeah, well, how

553
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.200
are you getting paid? You're not working, you're claiming disabled,

554
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.599
you're claiming bedridden, you're claiming all of these things. Where's

555
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.839
any money coming from to make these moves, buy these properties,

556
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:12.039
do the things that he's been doing this whole time.

557
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:19.480
So so on March fifteenth, and nineteen seventy six, we

558
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:24.359
have our first murder back in California at Kaiser Medical Center,

559
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.880
in South San Francisco, twenty six years old, sexually assaulted,

560
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.039
stab repeatedly, body found in a shallow grave, May fourth,

561
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:35.039
of nineteen seventy six. There's the hospital connection. Each murder's

562
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:38.839
in a different city, moving counterclockwise from Pacifica to Daily City.

563
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:42.279
Police believe the white man with brown hair, probably right handed,

564
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.599
in a strong and strong This one was on the

565
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:51.119
murder map for Sandy Betts Mary Thames three fifteen, nineteen

566
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.160
forty four. In the Dear Mary suicide note on three fifteen,

567
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.680
nineteen forty seven. Also kind of brought to mind this. Well,

568
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:00.440
I don't know why I have that one in there.

569
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.599
I don't either, I must have meant something by it.

570
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:10.559
It's Carol Booth. Oh, it's the March fourteenth date. It's

571
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:13.839
the March fifteenth date, you guys. So Mary James was

572
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:17.039
murdered on March fifteen, nineteen forty four, and Dear Mary

573
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:20.279
suicide note was left on three fifteen of nineteen forty seven,

574
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:22.839
So we have a murder on March fifteenth of nineteen

575
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:23.599
seventy six.

576
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.200
March merch.

577
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:32.319
Yes, don't forget.

578
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.440
I want to interject Carol Booth. The word name Booth

579
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:37.839
comes up on the areas for most reasons.

580
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.599
So oh well, I'm hoping to get to that. March

581
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.480
seventeenth of nineteen seventy six, I del Friedman at the

582
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.880
San Francisco apartment, stabbed to death with an eight inch knife,

583
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:51.039
raped lamp cord wrapped around her neck, long brown hair

584
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:54.599
parted in the middle. That is a typical, I think

585
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.119
victim victimology for the females that we know that the

586
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:06.000
zodiac and Jack would have chosen April first or nineteen sex.

587
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:08.200
What's that fault?

588
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:13.559
Sexual assaults?

589
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:18.720
Zodiac zodiacs. There weren't sexual assaults. These two women were

590
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.000
sexually assaulted, correct.

591
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.079
So that that differential, Yes, that differentiates them. But I

592
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:29.480
also recognized that the uh, the attempt to make it

593
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.839
appear as though it was a sexual assault to thwart

594
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:36.200
the police in them has been used several times where

595
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:41.160
they were sexually violated with an object versus an actual rape.

596
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.200
April first, nineteen seventy six, Denise lamp Ceremony shopping center

597
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.119
in Daily City, nine thirty pm, walks to the car

598
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.480
at Saramonti shopping Center, found half an hour later in

599
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:55.839
her nineteen sixty four Mustang, which had no door handles.

600
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.400
She was stabbed to death. She was a Broadmore resident

601
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:02.200
in nineteen years old. What I want to mention about

602
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:04.680
this is that one of the earlier murders in nineteen

603
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.680
forty seven to forty nine, one of the women was

604
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:11.359
abducted and found in her car and she was sexually

605
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.920
violated with a bottle brush branch from a tree down

606
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.240
in the LA area. So there's one instance right there

607
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.880
of him taking the person and their car, killing them

608
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.200
in their own car, leaving them in their own car,

609
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.039
and then violating them sexually to make it look like

610
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:29.440
a sexual perpetrator.

611
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.799
It was something I always wanted to tell you back

612
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.319
when you were reporting Jackson checking out the cotton or

613
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.160
of the certain area of Minnesota that you were talking

614
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.519
about when it was checking the place out, and those

615
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:46.440
two murders occurred in that timeframe, and that era, murders

616
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:51.160
in Minnesota like that were extremely rare. Those happened right

617
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.200
years apart, and all of a sudden, there's like two

618
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:55.559
right there where he's at.

619
00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.680
Nah, it's him right well. And like I said, two

620
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.000
of the initial or two of the initial four that

621
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.800
were not attributed to the Oakland County Child Killers is

622
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.159
two of them have not been solved, so they very

623
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.239
well could have been done by Jack, and then the

624
00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:18.000
others were just depositing and maybe even just writing letters.

625
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:22.000
So again to confuse the entire situation. Now this one

626
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.239
is probably not Jack, but I have it in here.

627
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.719
June sixth of nineteen seventy six, the Seawin family house

628
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:32.719
named wald Degley. They were protected forrest in Seawyn, Dornick,

629
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:38.079
Solar Third, Switzerland. Thirteen rounds of shooting with the Winchester rifle.

630
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:40.559
Eleven shots hit the head and two hit the chest.

631
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.840
One victim hits four times in the head with precision,

632
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.719
four corpses in the house and one wrapped in carpet

633
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:50.840
on the terrace. Elsa and Eugene Segres Sackinger. Now it

634
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.880
does sound like a mob hit. We've got a professional

635
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:58.400
here if they're hitting with precision with a rifle, and

636
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.960
we know that Jack was in possession of interest or rifle,

637
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.679
so that's probably why I threw it in here. Cool

638
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.519
On July sixteenth of nineteen sixty six or seventy six,

639
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:11.239
we see that the Department of Industrial Relations is still

640
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:13.679
mailing to Jack on North Highlands. But that does not

641
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.679
mean that he has not left at this point. That

642
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:19.280
brings us to the personal ad in San Francisco Chronicle.

643
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:21.400
We did talk a bit about this in the past

644
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:24.400
on August twenty seventh from nineteen seventy six. It was

645
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:26.800
at the top of the personal ads to Boot and

646
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:29.960
it's Zodiac, your partners in deep real estate. Your next

647
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:33.320
the Imperial Wizard can save you, surrender to him, or

648
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:37.480
I'll terminate your case. R. We've talked a little bit

649
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:39.360
about that, and we've gone over that in the past,

650
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:45.239
including the solve and Harriet's solve. Let's see Imperial Wizard.

651
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.440
Isn't that like a kuplux clandor exactly, Yes.

652
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.800
Harriet's been talking about this. Who is the name of

653
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.199
that person you were talking about?

654
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:01.079
Oh, you got Lewis Beans is one of them? Wow,

655
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:03.920
So there was quite a lot.

656
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:08.599
So this message, this message you actually anagram you figured

657
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:12.079
was one hundred and fifteen symbols that said President R. Nixon.

658
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:16.079
We received Elizabeth Short Arthur Allen eight seven, nineteen sixty two,

659
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:21.159
Marilyn and Moro pictures seven. A Treasury Department which building seven,

660
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:24.159
you guys, is the Treasury Department and the headquarters for

661
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:30.119
the Cia at that time. Zodiac era male io documents

662
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:34.119
and order years worth yours truly, Jack Terrence at Euxor

663
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:42.320
and wife. So leading back into and heading back to

664
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.920
the Michigan era era, we have Jane Allen. Now, I

665
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:48.400
think Jane Allen was actually solved by somebody else or

666
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:51.400
was committed by somebody else, because they actually saw that crime.

667
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.159
We'll find out in the summary. But it was her

668
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:57.360
boyfriend that was last to see her. She was found

669
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.519
four days later floating in the Miami River near Miamisburg,

670
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:03.239
which is a waterway dump. Could not tell if she

671
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.159
had been sexually assaulted. Her hands were tied behind her

672
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:09.360
back using pieces of a T shirt. Motorcycle gang has

673
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:12.519
been mentioned, just like Colette and d in California and

674
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.400
sixteen to seventeen miles and twenty four minutes away from

675
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:19.639
Carol Settlemeyer's house, which is the actual phone book that

676
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:22.199
I found in Jack's belonging, and track that woman back

677
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.800
to South Lake, Tahoe where Jack had just left it

678
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:30.440
approximately nineteen seventy seven. So as Jack's exiting Caughton, Minnesota,

679
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:33.639
this woman is also exiting Southfield, Michigan, and she's moving

680
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:37.320
to South Lake Tahoe. September fifth of nineteen seventy six,

681
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:41.039
we have Lisa Dickinson, Heather's Farms Park and Walnut Creek,

682
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:45.039
so back in the California area. This girl has never

683
00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:47.599
been found to my knowledge. She was riding a bike

684
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.119
from Los Cerro's Avenue Walnut Creek towards heather Farms Park.

685
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.360
The bike is found leaning against a tree in the

686
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.400
park and the bike riding murders to come in Arizona.

687
00:37:57.480 --> 00:37:59.960
Near parks, we see bikes involved in the Joe Robinson

688
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.280
in case, We're going to see bikes being mentioned a

689
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:05.599
lot now around these children that are being abducted. This

690
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:07.639
is on the murder map for bets and it's the

691
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:10.559
last California murder we're going to see for over a

692
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.480
year while Jack is gone. September eleventh of nineteen seventy

693
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.840
seven will be the next one in Pleasant Hill, but

694
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:19.880
that one I think we've also identified the killer of

695
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:22.320
those we'll see when we get there. Now that there

696
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.079
are no more murders in Texas or California until September

697
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.480
of nineteen seventy seven, But this is when things pick

698
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:32.960
up in Michigan and Minnesota. October nineteenth of nineteen ninety

699
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.480
nineteen seventy six. This is my first solid information that

700
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:41.760
Jack is actively living in Cotton, Minnesota. He is applying

701
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:46.400
for dynamite, so he's applying for at the Sheriff's department.

702
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.800
Is the top document where he's signing for the request

703
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:51.960
to be able to purchase the dynamite, and then he

704
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.280
has the delivery ticket beneath it, and it's indicating that

705
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:03.760
hibbing Mill Jack w Terrence customer pickup of Viking explosives

706
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:09.880
in supply inc. Now, let's see Jack gives an address

707
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:13.920
of Route one, box two nineteen A, Cotton, Massachusetts, Minnesota.

708
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:17.239
I put in MA. It shouldn't have been MA five

709
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.639
five seven two four. State licensed number at the time

710
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.480
was A's and Apple, H's and Harry three seven three.

711
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.719
The customer picked it up. The Duluth Sheriff signed the

712
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:31.400
application for the dynamite and figuring that winter ended in

713
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.679
March nineteen seventy seven, and this is when they all

714
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.159
moved to Texas. We're going to hear a little bit

715
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.400
from Dennis about that. But the bomb squad had to

716
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:40.840
be called out in Austin, Texas eventually to pick up

717
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.920
and dispose of the dynamite somewhere around spring of nineteen

718
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:49.920
seventy seven because it had become unstable. Here here's the

719
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:54.599
actual envelopes that were found together. So he is indicating

720
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:57.400
that there was a Remington Field Master Model five seventy

721
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.440
two with a serial number of RD thirty five. I'm

722
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.599
not sure what type of a gun this is. Does

723
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:03.559
anybody have a clue?

724
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:05.320
I have to look it up. I don't know.

725
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:10.280
Yeah. And then explosive papers, which we see written in

726
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.280
a couple ways, which I found to be interesting because

727
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:17.960
this cursive e in explosive was extremely consistent with one

728
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.719
of the letters that were written in the Sherry Joe

729
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:25.920
Bates crime. Oh and look at that a, you guys,

730
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:28.920
this is that high back a that I say, we

731
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.280
see in so many of the Zodiac documents where it

732
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.199
doesn't have the overhang, but it just has that high

733
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.679
back like a chair that's sitting there. So it's interesting

734
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:40.159
to see these and note these because, as we've indicated,

735
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:42.039
this is a heavy habit for Jack to do, but

736
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.920
clearly he doesn't always place that overhang on there, and

737
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.320
he thus is just kind of coming short of doing

738
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.159
the overhang and just doing the backside but the memory

739
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:53.039
movement and the way this letter is formed is consistent

740
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:55.519
with what we've been looking at in the zodiac.

741
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:56.760
And it's fanciful.

742
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.719
It's fancyful. This is another one of cars. I have

743
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.440
not been able to identify what type of vehicle this is.

744
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.639
I would love to know, because of course I would

745
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.840
like wow, because a Buick is one of the sided

746
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:16.280
vehicles in the Michigan ys in the Michigan cases, so

747
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:18.559
it's shown in the snow, which will be either Minnesota

748
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.280
or Michigan obviously during this time, because that's when Dennis

749
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.159
indicates that they were there through the cold winter. I

750
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:26.400
wanted to check to verify the tailight assembly with the

751
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:29.360
marks left in the snow bank, because there was a

752
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.159
report of marks by the tail lights being left in

753
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.119
a snow bank in one of the drop offs of

754
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:38.960
the murders in the Michigan area. Now I did, what's that.

755
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.559
There's documents on that in the Kroia files, and I

756
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:46.159
turned off to be an intermedia GM car. I can't

757
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:48.199
remember if they said pontiac Er Buick, I'd have to

758
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:50.480
get back down that, but they definitely got an imprint

759
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:52.880
out of the small on that deal and it definitely

760
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.599
ties to one particular car, and it was a GM

761
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.679
Intermedia not as big as that Buick there, so it's

762
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:03.559
more like a Chevelle was back then of G or such.

763
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.960
And we also saw the key ring that was a

764
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:11.440
gmac Key ring from Southfield, Michigan that was in Jack's

765
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.360
possessions as well. Now, I did run this through a

766
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.400
private investigator that I've worked with on cases for handwriting,

767
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.119
and I employed him in some of these things with

768
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:23.440
the Zodiac case. His name is Don Traco. He's with

769
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:26.239
Gumshoe Detectives, and he reports that they were unable to

770
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:29.119
get a hit on a Carol Settlemeyer anywhere like this

771
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:33.800
is like finding Lisa Marie self. You couldn't find her.

772
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:37.360
He couldn't find her anywhere by this name, but he

773
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.159
said that let alone in Portola, which is where I

774
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:43.519
eventually found her. He searched the PO box three eight

775
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.159
three in Portola and got one Carol with a current

776
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:50.360
contact info of Carol and Sharnie PO box twelve sixty seven,

777
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:54.199
Angels Camp, California, nine five to two two two dash

778
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.880
one two six seven, but also showing an address of

779
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:02.840
ten nineteen Madden Lane in Roseville, California, ground Ball Way

780
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:06.039
in Citrus Heights. These are all areas that Jack has

781
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:10.199
frequented her date of birth, a landline number, a cell

782
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:13.039
phone number, another landline number. When he ran her social

783
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:16.239
Security number, it did not return to Settlemyer. So this

784
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:18.400
is the only Carol that used that po box at

785
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.440
least for several years. And it looks like she was

786
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:22.920
using it in the late nineteen nineties, because this is

787
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.159
how the contact was made with the US Marshals to

788
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:28.559
locate Carroll in nineteen ninety three when her father had died.

789
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.000
So it must be I'm thinking it must be the

790
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:34.039
same one, and this last name. She has changed her name,

791
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:36.880
or she's gotten married, something has occurred. But the fact

792
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:39.159
that he can't actually even pull a report on her

793
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:43.599
based on her previous name is what voggles me that

794
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.239
brings us into the Jill Robinson case. So on December

795
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:49.400
twenty second of nineteen seventy six, Jill Robinson went missing.

796
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:52.360
She was twelve years old. She was in Royal Oaks, Michigan,

797
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:56.199
found Sunday, December twenty sixth, nineteen seventy six on the

798
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:59.960
side of I seventy five near Big Beaver Road in Troy, Michigan.

799
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.320
She's placed inside of the police station in the snow,

800
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:06.760
which means she's posed. She's found on Route I seventy five,

801
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.719
just north of sixteen mile Road in Troy, Michigan. The

802
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.679
top of her head was blown off with a twelve

803
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:15.320
gage shotgun. She had been cleaned and yes, she had

804
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:18.239
been cleaned and bathed as well. There were no signs

805
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:21.960
of a sexual assault. Jill's bike was found behind the

806
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:26.239
Lente and Lieberman offices on North Main Street in Royal

807
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:32.440
Oaks September fifth of nineteen seventy six. Lisa Dickinson where

808
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.760
her bike was left behind in Dickinson, Texas murders. So

809
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.519
it's quite like some of the other victims where again

810
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:44.440
this bicycle is involved. I just got distracted by my

811
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:48.400
five minute time limit Dickinson, Texas murders and Arizona murders

812
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:51.039
to come where bikes go missing and never found. And

813
00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:54.440
then the entire distance from Southfield, Michigan and Carol Settlemeer's

814
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:58.519
residence is approximately eleven miles and seventeen minutes. So again

815
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:01.199
she is wrapped up in the dead center. We had

816
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:04.679
a blue and green plaid jacket denim, blue backpack, blue jeans,

817
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:05.800
and a blue knit cap.

818
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.760
Keep in mind the big beaver road thing from when

819
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:12.400
we get to the Ramsey murder. We'll talk about that.

820
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:15.199
Right right, I know about the beaver hairs and the

821
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.320
things of that nature. That that seemed to be a

822
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:21.000
cross connection. So let's see, Carol had so seventeen miles

823
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:24.280
from Southfield, Michigan and Carol Settlementer's home. Carol had numbers

824
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.119
in her phone book for an unordinary amount of dog pounds,

825
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.440
police stations and bars. Police believed animals may have been

826
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.800
what lured the children away. And let's see, Oh that

827
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.760
gets you, guys, we were so close. We were two

828
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:46.400
slides through the secret Witness letter. Well, here's that letter,

829
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.920
and I actually just recently, as I was going back

830
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.320
through this, I found the hit of one cursive written

831
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.559
letter O with a with a loop in the center,

832
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.280
and you can see it enlarged right here. It is

833
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:02.320
the Secret Witness document. The o's are all posed like teardrops.

834
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:04.079
But if we go back through and we look at

835
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.599
what the zodiac did, he had exactly same shape, same lean,

836
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:11.079
same size, same loop. And also the tear drops were

837
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:16.400
another one of the Zodiac's handwriting personas so teardrops and

838
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:21.000
looped o's I found extremely interesting, But I want to

839
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.519
read yours. I want to read yours real quick. Here

840
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:27.320
it says this is from Terry greetings to you all. Technically,

841
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.559
the secret witness document is filed as a Jill Robinson

842
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:33.639
the second child Victim document. However, and because of its

843
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.360
pivotal importance, and because the occ case was of course

844
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.079
presented to the public as a whole item, it greatly

845
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.039
warrants repeated reveal. Zodiac Jack documents carry a lot of messages,

846
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:45.559
and this same document is something that I've made several

847
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:49.000
and different annotated copies of because of the simple fact

848
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:51.119
that it's too damn busy to be covered by only

849
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:54.079
one angle I'm sorry, by one page. There is no

850
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:57.599
question whatsoever that Jack rotated most of the letter ends

851
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:00.440
slightly clockwise in order to double, and so is the

852
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.440
Zodiac Killer hints, and yes, he has also slipped in

853
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.320
his JT initials as well as his bisected letter B

854
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:09.440
hints that clearly double is the number thirteen. The crop

855
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:12.639
mark style of the letter KS also serve as a

856
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.039
number eleven, because of course the letter K is the

857
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:18.280
eleventh letter of the alphabet in the plaintext word Lincoln.

858
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:20.679
Notice how he treated the second letter L to the

859
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:24.639
take on a V shape. Again, the letter V is

860
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:28.159
the twenty second letter of the alphabet. King eleven, thirteen

861
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.000
and twenty two are among the most redundant of John Walker.

862
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.840
Terrence Junior Zodiac Jack hints sadly, the nasty numbers at

863
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.800
eleven twenty two King Road on eleven thirteen twenty two

864
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.360
and the hard aerial view evidence that accompanies it bolsters

865
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:45.039
this secret witness document and several other documents before and afterwards.

866
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:48.159
In fact, he bolstered practically every document he ever made

867
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:52.559
via several different correlated methods. Terry ps the details really

868
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:54.920
jump out at you when you enlarge this highly organized,

869
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.880
murdered document. Exactly. All right, we got two minutes.

870
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.920
Who has knocked it out of the park with her saul.

871
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:03.920
I'm telling you it's fabulous.

872
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:06.000
Yeah.

873
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:09.400
Go back to u SLA and Patty Hurst again and

874
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:11.360
mind control absolutely.

875
00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:12.880
Okay.

876
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:16.599
So the guy that taught uh, his name was Donald

877
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:19.079
du free Sink, the leader of the SLA.

878
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:22.280
Anyway, he was taught by Colton Westbrook, who.

879
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:25.000
Was a professor at Berkeley but he's also a mind

880
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:27.719
control doctor at back of him, and they were running

881
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:31.000
all these different programs there and actually sing Q was

882
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:34.039
in charge of one of the programs, and uh so

883
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.039
then when he got out, he started the Symbionese Liberation

884
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:41.480
Army and one of his goals, he says, was I

885
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:42.480
craved the power.

886
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.199
Charlie Manson had declared CQ.

887
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:49.800
That's kind of her because we were just talking about

888
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.039
the different dates and correlations and then mind control and

889
00:48:53.159 --> 00:49:00.440
Madson and then you know Hurst and SLA justid.

890
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.480
Far too many coincidences. So is there anything else anybody

891
00:49:04.519 --> 00:49:07.280
would like to add. We've got about forty seconds here.

892
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.159
I just want before I let anybody go, I want

893
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:12.320
you all to have a wonderful weekend and we will

894
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:14.960
be back with that secret Witness document and the saw

895
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:18.119
from Harry Soouchet this following Friday. I think it was

896
00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:20.639
going to be very interesting for everybody to see and

897
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:21.119
to read.

898
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:33.639
And I'm sorry, Well, if Kathy listening, I just want

899
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:36.079
to say real quick, if Kathy Broad is listening, I

900
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:39.599
understand she has a word press fight. She should be

901
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.719
checking out my blog too, because I tried to put

902
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:47.280
what about the sacret witness letter there, so you know,

903
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.159
maybe hopefully she can join us.

904
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:56.800
You know, we're at time. Terry b We guys, thank

905
00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:59.599
you me in here. You are all awesome. I will

906
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:01.400
talk to you you next week.

907
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:18.360
Thank you