Dec. 7, 2024

Jack Returns to California and Zodiac is Back

Jack Returns to California and Zodiac is Back

1979 Jack returns to California with the family. He moves to a trailer park that eventually becomes the new location of the Sacramento FBI Field Office. Coincidence??? Murders begin to rev up in California making it appear that the Zodiac Killer has...

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1979 Jack returns to California with the family. He moves to a trailer park that eventually becomes the new location of the Sacramento FBI Field Office. Coincidence??? Murders begin to rev up in California making it appear that the Zodiac Killer has resurfaced per Robert Graysmith. Atlanta Georgia Child Killer begins and the taunting letters are ever so reminiscent of the Zodiac Killer, and Dennis shows us how Jack could have the opportunity to get away with these crimes.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Finding the Zodiac. I'm sorry hit

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to road Jacks Finding the Zodiac. I'm a little discombobulated.

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I thought I was going to start this show out

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today with the rant, but I found that I found

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out just a few minutes ago that YouTube is blocking

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people based on statements that they've made. So I probably

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refrain and check my statements before I make them to

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make sure it's not a reason that we get censored

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or our freedom of speech is hindered by YouTube not

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posting this. So we are going to see this live

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everywhere else except for on our.

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Talk for TV today.

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Anyways, I'd like to introduce Harriet Soouchet to the show.

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Yes, good morning, I'm here. Good Good morning earthquakes. Yesterday.

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I heard that.

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Yesterday I got an email in regard to, oh, so

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you've built it really well.

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So I did get an email.

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Oh I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm just stuck on the

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earthquakes yesterday. But yeah, I'm here, my hand's here.

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I was trying to say that I received an email

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in regards to at least one of the earthquakes.

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I didn't feel any of them. So well.

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I did feel an earthquake in the parking garage, but

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I thought that was just the cars that were actually

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moving through it, and that's likely what I felt was

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the movement of the garage with the massive amount of

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traffic that was coming into it. But I didn't actually

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feel any So I'm glad you're safe.

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Nothing shook off the walls.

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Oh yeah, no, just I was screaming at the phone

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like a lot of people were apparently okay enough already

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because we thought it was just one earthquake. It was

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we got the three alerts and the tsunami alert in

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this area, So you know, can you imagine your screeching

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phone for about a minute.

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Well, yeah, yeah, that's kind of annoying. But what was

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the tsunami? Did that hit?

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They said that they thought there might be a tsunami

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because the main bigritquake which was seven point three off

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the coast about eighty miles from here, in a one

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hundred and sixty one miles from San Francisco. But they

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said that was strong. And then you had the other

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two earthquakes, a six point zero in Oh my god,

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e're rika and then an earthquake and Cob, you know,

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you got those three earthquakes. So they sent out the

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tunami alert. A witness that I know but I didn't

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talk to my phone said that they saw the ocean

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by San Francisco looking really weird, but no tsunami.

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So huh, well, I'm still waiting for that ocean front property.

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So if you want to move this direction, we can

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enjoy it. At that part of California falls off into

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the ocean.

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And I was, you know, what my focus was, and

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I'll just try to be brief. Was I was intending

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to go get milk at the store. So I had

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already grabbed my phone and I had this person and

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I'm you know, just thinking, okay, enough with the earthquake,

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please I need to go get billed.

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Oh boy, I'm looking at the tree, and the tree

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outside a window is like practically starting the squirrel, And

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I said, well, maybe.

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This is a serious earthquake. Anyway, we'll be back.

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And I'm just going to skip past my rant.

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I'm going to check to make sure I don't have

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any unauthorized words in it before I spit that one out,

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because it really literally covers politics, politicians, and the presidencies

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of the past.

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Oh I know.

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Yeah, I was worried about reading one of those songs

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because it was pretty loaded for bear so it doesn't

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have anything to do with it. But we tried to.

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We tried to, you know, brace people. But anyways, yeah, okay, YouTube.

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Yeah, yeah, YouTube. I was gonna say, I thought that

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I had a a YouTuber response in here that I

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did not get into the actual let's see there it is.

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There's a YouTube comment I wanted to I wanted to

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actually mention this, and it didn't actually make it into

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the presentation, but it is, let's see.

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User CE four E N five JC two D commented

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on the video.

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I would since I would sincerely advise you to be

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very careful with the costume. If it was the one

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used at Lake barri Essa, it probably will have blood

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spatter from the knife attack, make a log of the

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custody of the container, and keep it apart from any contamination.

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At least this may help to preserve the integrity of it.

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Oh yay, let's welcome Nolan to the show.

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Good morning Nolan, Good morning Nolan.

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We don't have sound yet anyways, So back to this hood.

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So I'm sure that they're commenting on Dennis's Zodiac Killer

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the untold story, and they don't seem to realize that

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this had made maybe nine ten years ago. Just to

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give you an update on that hood, the hood was

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turned over to the FBI. It was handled with care,

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at least by what I could tell in the video

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that Dennis had used gloves when he pulled it from

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the PA system. His reasoning for opening that PA system

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was that the PA system happened to be something extremely

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important to Jack, and while it was in Dennis's possession

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because Jack had given him his all his belongings in

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a storage shed I think that was from Arizona.

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Was that correct, Harriet where he received Jack's stuff.

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I believe so. So he went to go get it

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and brought it to I think where he was staying

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at the time at pullt fines.

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Right correct, and so he brought Jack's belongings with him,

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and Jack had mentioned to Dennis to make sure that

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if he got rid of anything, that he didn't get

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rid of that PA system. He was very explicit on

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Dennis having and kept that or returning it to Jack

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for some unknown reason, and at the time Dennis was

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not really thinking about what the PA system had meant

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to Jack. We have heard the solves from Harriet Souchet

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who discusses the PA system as.

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A device used to carry.

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Not only the hood as Dennis found in it, but

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what were the other items that you stated in the

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solves that the PA system had carried.

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I believe is numerous times at saying that her friend

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Marjorie Lett otherwise known as Mirpaul Walker of Wward Lake

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by the way, anyways, had the pictures of the NASA

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autopsy of JFK, the real autopsy, and he was trying

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to get those pigs. But it looks like along the

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way he's saying he became a fan of Jana's Joplin.

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So just like somehow Pilfer's the whole PA system and

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that's where the wood ends up.

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That is where the hood ends up.

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So Dennis actually after Jack had passed, and I want

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to say it was approximately two thousand.

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And eight when he found the hood.

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He had.

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Pulled the PA system out.

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He had questioned why it was so important to Jack,

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and he decided to open that PA system up from

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the rear. In doing so, when he pulled it open,

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he found a folded black piece of material. Unsure of

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what that was, he actually lifted it out of the

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PA system and was able to see that it is

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a likeness of the described hood that was used at

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the Lake Barrysa murders. This was turned over to the FBI.

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As far as I know, the FBI claimed that they

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did not find any type of DNA or blood or

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any sweat or anything on this particular hood, but they

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did confirm that it wasn't out of They did confirm

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that it was made out of a truth. Okay, hold on,

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let me get to that is. This is my this

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is my recollection. So if you know something different, I'll

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let you speak.

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Hold on.

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What they did verify was that it was a juke

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fabric that was pre existing the zodiac cases. So I

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find it hard to believe that Dennis Kaufman and all

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of his infinite wisdom, because he didn't sometimes seem to

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be the smartest person, would have been able to have

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hunted down a material that was predating those murders thirty

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five forty almost forty years later, or to make it

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into a likeness of what is described by Brian Hartnell

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as a square shaped top hood holes where the glasses

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clipped on which we could see those holes in the

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actual hood.

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Now, what did you say that.

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They found on it?

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I believe I ran into the Lake County Sheriff's worker

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that was also living in Clear Lake, who was all

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excited and said, oh, you you know, we talked about

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the Zodiac cases, and she said they found the fibers

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matched what was on Brian Hartnell's door. So because that

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hood ends up at one point at the NAPA Sheriff's department,

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and she said that the fibers matched what was on

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Brian Hartnell's door. And then I heard nothing from this

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Sheriff's department person that were again. And when I described

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her to Dennis, he said, that's the lady that he

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believed was part of the protocol of the series of

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events to get it to the Lake from Lake County

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or all these county areas through Sacramento through Lake County.

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They had to do this protocol of events to end

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up in Napa County. So that's what I remember, all

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the fumilation of the fibers matching what was on Brian

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Hartnell's door.

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Well, that would explain.

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Then you still had.

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Go ahead, Nolan.

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Yes, isn't it true that Dennis tried to get the

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hood back and the FBI wouldn't give back.

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Correct, And that's what I was just going to say.

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That might explain why it wasn't returned because albeit the

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FBI indicated what they indicated that they didn't find any

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material on it or DNA, which doesn't really answer the

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question as to whether or not they found a match

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in fibers on Brian Hartnell's car.

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But would explain why.

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It hadn't been returned after they had did not discover

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any evidence that would have linked or tied it to

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a particular individual.

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So yes, go ahead.

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Why on Brion Hartnell's car? Why would the Zodiac could

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fibers be on his car?

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Because he went to the car, He went to the

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car and he wrote on it.

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So he wrote he wrote the date.

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Yeah, okay, yes, so yes, he's had contact. And obviously

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if he's in this hood, it's going to the fibers

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will be on his hands. So if he's then started

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writing on the car door, those fibers could have transferred

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fairly easily. That's very interesting. You just gave me goosebumps, Harriot,

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because I didn't know that little piece of information till

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just now.

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All right, so back, go ahead.

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I just wanted to say something really quickly. It's a

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few years later that I believe it's the same Syrup

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department girl that worked for NAPA had her storage unit

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and my storage unit were both broken into. That was

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also one of the old storage unit places that Dennis

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had his Zodiac cases at, So I just wanted to

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throw that in there too. So it's like somebody was

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looking for something, maybe the hood.

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And let me add one more time, because I'm sure

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I've discussed this in the past. When I took the

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00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:02.679
fingerprint class, it was a forty hour class of learning

229
00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:08.000
to make identification in fingerprints. I met up with and

230
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:14.759
have subsequently become friends with their former fingerprint analysis tech

231
00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:16.879
which she would go to the crime scenes lift the

232
00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.919
prints come back, you know, do the comparisons to determine

233
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.559
whether or not they belong to a particular suspect. And

234
00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.519
I discussed with her being able to do a comparison

235
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.480
of Jack's thumbprint on his military records because we had

236
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.360
good ridge value, we had the delta's, we had the

237
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.720
center portion, everything stood out. I think that there's more

238
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:40.080
than enough information to make a identification if we had

239
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.519
a good thumb print that was actually.

240
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:44.440
The Zodiac killers.

241
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.440
We could not get any of the detectives, cold case

242
00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.039
or otherwise to even allow us to do this, And

243
00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.480
I was asking her to do it, or just get

244
00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.000
me a copy, you know, for Heaven's sakes, of.

245
00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.240
The fingerprints that they have on file. I'll do it

246
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.120
as the assessment.

247
00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.480
Outside of that if NAP s Sheriff's Department doesn't want

248
00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:03.840
to expend.

249
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:04.600
The resources for it.

250
00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.759
But that also takes me back to when Dennis and

251
00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.840
I went down and visited the Napa Sheriff's Department. We

252
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.679
had two people, one from Napa Police Department and one

253
00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:14.240
from the Sheriff's department.

254
00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.039
Who were they were given grants.

255
00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.279
The police departments were given grants to investigate cold cases.

256
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.759
So we took the information and our handwriting exams in,

257
00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.000
we sat down and spoke to them. They did not

258
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.360
want me to give them the presentation, and I know

259
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.759
that they're not handwriting experts. So for whatever reason, they

260
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.519
declared there was not enough information in this case to

261
00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.320
pursue any further or I'm sorry, put forth any more

262
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.120
expenditures towards this case, which to me sounds silly because

263
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.879
I'm bringing you the evidence that you need. I'm bringing

264
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.440
you and the work has been done, the cost has

265
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.600
been expended, and they refused to allow us to give

266
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.279
them the presentation or even reopen that because they declared

267
00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:56.000
there were evidence in other cases that were more well,

268
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.159
there was more evidence in other cases that they felt

269
00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.960
that those re verses could be expended towards. So the

270
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.159
NAPA Sheriff's Department in the NAPA Police Department has really

271
00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.240
kind of failed us on a couple levels here, and

272
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.399
to me, again, it just comes back to this whole

273
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:15.360
idea of the control of keeping this thing silent, which

274
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.120
I had tended to start this presentation talking about. I

275
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.480
had started watching the new John Benet Ramsey docuseries and

276
00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.879
I was just absolutely blown away with the inadequacy and

277
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:30.240
the ineptness of the law enforcement, including the investigator who

278
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.360
then turned around wrote a book and then found himself

279
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:37.360
civilly sued for that information as slander, where he was

280
00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:39.720
blaming the Ramseys for being the killer of their own

281
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:44.840
child or sibling, even knowing that as early as January

282
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:48.480
of nineteen ninety seven, they had cleared the Ramses by DNA,

283
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:54.360
but this particular investigator declared that the DNA was faulty somehow,

284
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.759
and he perpetuated and continued the notion that the Ramses

285
00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:01.559
were guilty for this played a big role in it,

286
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:04.919
And I'm again disgusted, just like the media with Arthur

287
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.159
Lee Allen and blaming the wrong person. Their whole thought

288
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:10.759
process of We're just going to put this information out

289
00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:12.879
there and demise somebody in the eyes of the public

290
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.799
without having the truth blows me away, and I have

291
00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:17.519
to go back to what is there to gain for

292
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.639
these individuals. You've got police who are willing to make

293
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.440
proclamations that are not true. You have the media that

294
00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:29.399
is outright lying about situations and evidence in the case. Sorry,

295
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.679
So it really just takes me back to what the

296
00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.639
Naple Police Department in the Sheriff's Department is doing in

297
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.720
order to facilitate the continuation of this mystery, when they

298
00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:43.759
can simply stop us in our tracks if they'd allow

299
00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.279
us to do the proper examinations to determine whether or

300
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.159
not Jack is the suspect you're looking for.

301
00:16:51.039 --> 00:17:00.080
Okay, well, no, wonder Jack says that Kenny Narla was shitty.

302
00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:04.839
He knew something pretty bad about Ken Marlow. Ken Marla

303
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:09.079
was I hate to say it, people, he was an

304
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.519
angel by day but a devil at night. So yeah,

305
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.279
I got a lot of things on that could be

306
00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:20.200
it too well, we kind of bring us down too well.

307
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:24.279
An any bringing down of the police department obviously opens

308
00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.799
up skepticism in the public's eye in regards to any

309
00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:28.720
other cases they claimed to have solved.

310
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:31.400
Part of my rant last night.

311
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.000
Was talking about Bush having pardon Henry Lee Lucas, who,

312
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.079
in cahoots with the Texas Rangers, attempted to close over

313
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.839
two hundred unsolved murders across the United States.

314
00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:43.559
Why did the Rangers.

315
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.319
Feel the necessity or need to facilitate this type of

316
00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.920
propaganda and this misconception to the public. I have no idea.

317
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.920
They were busted by an attorney who found that Henry

318
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.559
Lee Lucas was taking he had inside information, just like

319
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.519
John Mark Carr and the John Benny Ramsay case. Inside

320
00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.920
information to these cases. He put in the hat unless

321
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:05.519
he was the killer or unless it had been fed

322
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:09.160
to him by the Texas Rangers. And this attorney then

323
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.680
suffered the attack of the irs. Other attorneys were threatened

324
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:17.200
to lose their status as attorneys that they didn't turn

325
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.119
evidence or attempt to lie about this attorney when he

326
00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.559
and in fact was an extremely.

327
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:24.839
Good, honest da.

328
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:27.200
So he was put through the ringer, just like the

329
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:31.240
Ramsays were for wanting to expose these individuals for that truth.

330
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:38.079
Disgusting Anyways, my rant, So we're at Christmas nineteen seventy eight.

331
00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:44.200
We have pictures of Gary in Texas. Gary is Jack's nephew, correct.

332
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.519
Harriet, I believe so, yes.

333
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.319
And Gary is the one that had come forward and

334
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.240
stated that he knew of Jack attempting to kill a

335
00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.279
man in Valeo and getting off on it because he

336
00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:59.559
claimed I think he tried to run him over or

337
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:00.000
he stepped.

338
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:02.200
There was a couple of stories.

339
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.599
I think I've told him a few back, but it

340
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.000
is in Dennis's book where Gary talks about these instances

341
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.920
of Jack's dastardly deeds, including the attempts to kill people

342
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:15.480
or having killed people claiming self defense. Also the attempt

343
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.920
of a rape that he and his son proclaimed occurred

344
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.400
on a particular night of a female. So there are

345
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.440
a few things there that Gary had shared. But I

346
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.240
did find these pictures and it shows that it's with Althia,

347
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.279
which must be his daughter, Christmas of nineteen seventy eight.

348
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:36.400
This is in again Nora's handwriting, so this would make

349
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.599
me believe that they are in Texas with Jack and

350
00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:43.079
Nora at the time these pictures are taken. So we

351
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.279
know that Jack is in Texas until Christmas of nineteen

352
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:50.680
seventy eight, and in sagin Texas, which is the general location,

353
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.000
it's approximately two hours and forty nine minutes, which is

354
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:59.720
a similar kill zone for Jack in California when he's

355
00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:04.480
in South Lake Tahoe or in Nyak moving out towards

356
00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:07.039
the Bay Area for these murders are Santa Rosa. When

357
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.519
you look at that circumference, it's approximately two to two

358
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:13.079
and a half hours open, and that's the same kill

359
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.480
zone that we're seeing in the I forty five murders

360
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:19.359
where Jack's proximity is, and Jack's brother and his mother's

361
00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.920
living here at that time. But Jack's good friend and

362
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.240
father of his son, Charles, we just talked about Charles,

363
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.480
who was born November of nineteen seventy eight. He dated

364
00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:30.920
a girl named Crystal, which was the daughter of one

365
00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.519
of Jack's good friends who lived in the zip code

366
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.920
right next to Tim Miller in the League City Deaths.

367
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.680
And we have the letter that is mailed the cutout

368
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.039
letters in two thousand and five that is mailed to

369
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:45.799
Tim Miller in regards to the murder of his daughter.

370
00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:50.079
And so we found all of this out because of

371
00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.440
course Tim Miller was convinced that it couldn't have been

372
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.680
Jack who mailed the letter. He was currently at that

373
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.519
time living in Washington. But then it came to light

374
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:01.440
while Tim Miller had gone on a trip to Jack's

375
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.759
ant's house in Texas, he flew Dennis out to Texas,

376
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.240
they went to visit the ant. The ant confirmed that

377
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.400
Jack in fact was in Texas in September of two

378
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.759
thousand and five, which is when this letter was actually mailed.

379
00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:17.319
So here again one of these outstanding coincidences that puts

380
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:20.079
Jack in the proximity and the area of being able

381
00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:22.480
to have mailed this letter in regards to Tim Miller's

382
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.759
daughter's death. So that was just a little caveat there.

383
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.119
December nineteen seventy eight, we do have a possible death

384
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.720
date of a Mendocino John and Jane Doe off Highway

385
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.200
twenty about thirteen miles from Willitts. This is near to

386
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.039
James Creek. Both teenagers were not related. Jane was fourteen

387
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.200
years old, John was thirteen years old. There was an

388
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.200
extra tooth not found to be the victims found with

389
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.319
the remains, but no other remains were found from here

390
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.519
on out with the League City deaths, with deaths back here,

391
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.799
the unsolved murders back here in California. And then there

392
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.599
are couple other crimes around the United States where we

393
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.720
start to see body parts that don't belong to victims,

394
00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.039
that are either in shallow graves with those victims. And

395
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.480
so this one stood out to me because we found

396
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:16.440
extra remains that were not and that makes me want

397
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.839
to go back to this particular case and say, hey,

398
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.200
was this the tooth of donal Lass. Do we know

399
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:24.519
if the skull that they found had the teeth in it,

400
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:26.599
because I think one of your salves, Hariots said the

401
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.319
teeth were removed, correct.

402
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.400
Yeah, yeah, the teeth were in one place, the skull

403
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.559
put in another area by eighty and twenty.

404
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.720
So he's dropping little clues, little hints, just like the

405
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.039
Zodiac proclaimed in his letters that you're going to find

406
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.160
clues and hints. I'm leaving clues, you guys. So maybe

407
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:50.960
that tooth should be examined for DNA against Donal Lass

408
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.839
as well. So I visit the I forty five league

409
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.400
city deaths where extra body parts are found in graves.

410
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.440
In fact, Tim Miller even indicated that there were extra

411
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:04.920
I believe hands found in grave shallow graves of murder victims.

412
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.119
And those hands did not belong obviously, So it was

413
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.759
an extra set of hands basically found in the grave.

414
00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.359
So we'll do a little bit of background on this

415
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.000
go ahead.

416
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.000
I was just going to say that I that I

417
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.880
got a lot of those pals, and I believe that Craven,

418
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.359
that's Ellison Craven's hands, and that had to do with Yeah,

419
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.920
it had to do with Robert Apel and some dirty

420
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.960
people in NASA. She had an uncle that worked for NASA.

421
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:37.799
Well we do show that.

422
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.079
Yeah, I went over those quite well and it is

423
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:41.960
pretty gruesome.

424
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.279
Yes, well, we do show that the authorities identified Jane

425
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.480
Doe found near Mendocino in Lake County boundary forty four

426
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.440
years ago. So they were able to identify Jane Doe,

427
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.359
but not John Doe. And here's some background, just to

428
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.640
catch everybody up. Mendocino County authorities still do not know

429
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:01.079
the identities of the two children and murdered in nineteen

430
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.920
seventy eight whose bodies were jumped along a remote stretch

431
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:06.680
of Highway twenty. So again we got that Highway twenty

432
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.559
relation between Willets and Fort Bragg. State of the art

433
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:13.000
technology has now provided new faces for these children, hoping

434
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.279
to find out who they were and where they came from.

435
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.480
Without this basic knowledge, finding justice for these two children

436
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.759
has reached a dead end. Anyone recognizing these children should

437
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.799
contact the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office at seven oh seven

438
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.200
four six three four zero eight six. Jane and John

439
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.240
Doe were likely murdered in December of nineteen seventy eight.

440
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.119
This would be my timeframe in which Jack would be

441
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:36.480
coming back to California. To land a new spot to

442
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.359
live for the family, because again he likes to travel

443
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:41.759
without the family to find the new residence. Then he

444
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.880
comes back, and it is my belief that he may

445
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:47.680
take the opportunity to commit a crime while he's there.

446
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.880
Then he ski daddles out while everything is hot and

447
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.680
the heat is on, back to wherever it is where

448
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:56.559
the family is, and then eventually moves back in with

449
00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.759
the family, making it look like he's a good family

450
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.920
man who just moved from another location and wouldn't possibly

451
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.000
be considered for the crimes. Very good little scheme he

452
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:07.759
has set up there. Jane and John Doe were likely

453
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.599
murdered in December of nineteen seventy eight. Jane was about

454
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.079
fourteen years old and John was about thirteen. The two

455
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.359
are not related. Both teens had light brown hair. Detectives

456
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.240
found a pierced ear hoop, earring ornamented with a small

457
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:24.039
carved bird, and some duct tape with the remains. Little

458
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:27.880
else is known, so just one a pierced so they

459
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.319
found one earring. So this is also similar to the

460
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:34.160
Santa Rosa murders where an ear ring had been removed

461
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.720
from victims, and this was something one of the Santa

462
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:43.759
Rosa Sheriffs were actually looking into with Dennis, because Dennis

463
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:48.720
had single ear rings, one earring out of each set,

464
00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:50.680
and I think there were about four different earrings that

465
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:54.680
we've shown in the podcast already that was in Jack's

466
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.799
a little we called his gastardly box because it had

467
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:01.759
things like the pilot fol pen had pre cut lengths

468
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.480
of cord that was described by his son Charles to

469
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:07.920
have been something that Jack always carried it in the

470
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.599
trunk of his car, not big enough to actually tie

471
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.000
anything down, but he never really understood why they were there.

472
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.079
The teen scattered.

473
00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:20.240
Skeletal remains were found in steep terrain just off Highway twenty,

474
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.000
about thirteen miles west of Willets at five thirty pm

475
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:26.960
on Sunday, July eighth, nineteen seventy nine, so almost seven

476
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.359
months later. The man who discovered the remains pulled off

477
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.880
the highway following a domestic spat and took a hike

478
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.920
to cool off. He ventured into the heavily overgrown area

479
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.519
next to the roadway, not far from James Creek. He

480
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.960
spotted a human school and called police. At the dumb sites,

481
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:47.279
deputies recovered the skeleton remains of two teenagers scattered by animals.

482
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.759
At first, the corner did not know whether the children

483
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.359
were male or female. No children were reported missing in

484
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.160
the Mendocino County area, leading to tectives to believe the

485
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.359
two teens were runaways from another region. And then again,

486
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:04.039
this is that Lincoln analysis issue where time space and

487
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:09.240
proximity is what keeps cases from being solved because they're

488
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.880
not working with other agencies to determine where these children

489
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:18.000
came from. Some have speculated the two were hitchhiking when

490
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.039
they were murdered. For years, detectives believe the two children

491
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.000
were related, perhaps brother and sister.

492
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:24.920
This has since been proven fault.

493
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:28.160
Eventually, the two children were buried without fanfare in the

494
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:32.480
Russian River Cemetery in Ukaya. Newspaper reporter on this case

495
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.039
at the time was the results of the cat scan

496
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.400
from Jane Doe, which was used as the basis of

497
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.559
the school reconstruction image. The BBC magazine followed this case

498
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:46.559
throughout the identification effort at www dot BBC dot co

499
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:53.119
dot uk Ford slash news Ford Slash Magazine hyphen one eight, five, two, nine, three.

500
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:53.920
Six, six.

501
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:59.640
TWN mentioned the find in a few paragraphs, but then nothing.

502
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.359
The Kaya Daily Journal had a few more mentions, but

503
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:05.519
when detectives became stumped, there was nothing new to report.

504
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:08.519
For nearly thirty three years, the cases remained ice cold.

505
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.440
After twenty years, detectives used new DNA technology to determine

506
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.279
the children were not related. A forensic artist with the

507
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.960
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, haven't you talked

508
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:21.279
about this organization period?

509
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:27.799
Yeah, I worked out pretty bad, according to the many

510
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:31.640
things I was coming up with. Oh god, it became.

511
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.799
It starts out with good intentions, but John were very

512
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.119
walsh even according to their own daughter, saying, it's just

513
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:47.319
like a database and a place of where cases end

514
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:50.599
up cold and kids can end up missing, and it's

515
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:56.759
a way too. It's just pretty bad. So basically, yeah,

516
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.920
they need to get rid of it.

517
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:02.240
Gotcha, Well, it says here in this particular case, it

518
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.039
was beneficial. They crafted facial reconstructions of the two children.

519
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.759
These images were placed on its website, and Jane and

520
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.960
John Doe were introduced via the Internet to a much

521
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.680
wider audience. Despite this broaden exposure, the public failed to

522
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.799
identify these children. The scans, detailed three dimensional images were

523
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.200
transferred to forensic imaging specialist Joe Mullens at the National

524
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:25.880
Center for Missing and Exploited Children to create a skull

525
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:30.039
reconstruction image. Mullens applied his thirteen years experience in this

526
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:33.200
field to reconstruct the faces and features of these two children.

527
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.119
This new software has been available for six years, says Mullens.

528
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.039
So far he has done about forty reconstructions of this type,

529
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:43.240
and Mullens anticipates a surge of demand for the technique

530
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:44.400
as success mounts.

531
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:46.720
Successes mount, He.

532
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:50.440
And others in the field have been working with hospitals

533
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:53.119
and medical examiners all over the county to cat scan

534
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.839
the remains of unidentified skeletons to aid in identifying them.

535
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.599
This new technique takes about half the time ofditional clay

536
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.000
build up method. The clay method uses the actual school

537
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.599
is the basis for the reconstruction. Images used in the

538
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.640
new digital process can be shipped electronically. This technique was

539
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.079
used to identify the remains of Stephanie Quisada, twenty, who

540
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.160
was murdered in Southgate, California in two thousand and five.

541
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:19.920
Where's Southgate? Does anybody know?

542
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:23.039
No?

543
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:28.799
Just an area Southgate, South Sacramento. But really I think

544
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:30.559
it's actually it's a different.

545
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:38.160
Place, huh, Because if they were taken in in South

546
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.480
Sacramento and Jack was moving back to California, we do

547
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:46.160
know that he moved back to Sacramento, so that may

548
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:51.039
if that Southgate reference is correct, then again I put

549
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:53.440
this back into the onus that this could have been

550
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.160
when Jack returned to look for the new place to

551
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.920
live for the family. It says, even though there was

552
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.200
an artist's sketch of the unidentified woman circulated at the time,

553
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.960
no one apparently recognized her from the sketch. In two

554
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:09.000
thousand and eight, a three dimensional image was generated through

555
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.119
this technique and someone recognized her within days of its release.

556
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.279
Her identity was confirmed by DNA evidence months later. Mullen

557
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:19.279
says that about half of the reconstructions he has done

558
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:23.000
have been tentatively identified and are now awaiting DNA confirmation.

559
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.200
As scientists were examining the schools of Mendocino Counties Jane

560
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.880
and John Doe, they discovered an extra tooth which did

561
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.440
not belong to either child. This prompted the exhumation of

562
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:38.000
the rest of their remains. Forensic anthropologist Dick doctor Rick

563
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:42.240
Snow assisted with the exhumation and examination of the remains.

564
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:45.440
He confirmed the conclusions reached by the original coroner regarding

565
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.920
age and sects of the victims. There were no extra

566
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:50.359
bones belonging to a third party co mingled with the

567
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.279
buried remains. Whether this extra tooth is the remnant of

568
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.119
a third body from the suspect or a random inclusion

569
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.160
has not yet been determined.

570
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:05.000
So okay on Donald Last's skull.

571
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.319
That just reminds me that the b writer that wrote

572
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:11.039
the article on the discovery of the skull and ident

573
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:13.160
firing it as her.

574
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:14.359
Has not gotten back to me.

575
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:16.160
So I'm going to reach out again and try and

576
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.640
talk to that reporter about that story about Donaldlast's skull again.

577
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.440
Why wouldn't they want more information? Why wouldn't they want

578
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.119
to firm up there? I don't understand media's intentions.

579
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.279
Maybe they can, Yeah, you'd want to do a follow

580
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.720
up article if we have information to share with them

581
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:36.000
or they have information to share with us. And I had,

582
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.359
I had questions about the article to posed to him.

583
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:42.960
But anyways, and I just and I just misstated the

584
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:47.079
Southgate thing. So the stephaniquis eight to twenty year old

585
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.920
was murdered in Southgate, California in two thousand and five,

586
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.119
So she is not Jane Doe and John Doe. I

587
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:55.960
thought this was an identification of one of these individuals.

588
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:56.960
It was not.

589
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.960
So the proximity to the murders in the area is

590
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:05.480
more related to the Jane do and John Doe of Mendocino.

591
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.519
And that brings us to nineteen seventy nine. We're moving

592
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.880
right along and January of nineteen seventy nine, dewhurst book

593
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.519
has Jack returning to California. He says, Jack returns to California,

594
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:21.400
lives on Auburn Boulevard, Sacramento, California, where eventually the new

595
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.079
site for the FBI Field Office in Sacramento will be.

596
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:27.359
Dennis's book also shows the same thing.

597
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:31.079
He says, we arrive in Sacramento, California, January nineteen seventy

598
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:34.359
nine and rent a trailer space on Auburn Boulevard. This

599
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:36.640
is the first time we moved back to California since

600
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:39.880
nineteen seventy six. This was another thing that fit into

601
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.720
the zodiac timeframe. In Robert Grace Smith's book Zodiac, he

602
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.519
has a list of what he believes to be Zodiac victims.

603
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.519
What I found interesting about his list was the dates

604
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:53.480
of the murders. Grace Smiths lists a total of forty

605
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.599
nine murders from nineteen sixty six through nineteen eighty one.

606
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.799
From nineteen sixty eight until nineteen seventy five, he lists

607
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.920
a sequence of murders in nineteen seventy five, they suddenly

608
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:06.400
stop until February of nineteen seventy nine. There were no

609
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.280
suspected murders attributed to the Zodiac during the years we

610
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.320
were living in another state. We left California. Oh, I'm

611
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:17.400
getting goosebumps. We left California in nineteen seventy six and

612
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.119
we returned January nineteen seventy nine. The next murder attributed

613
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:25.159
to the Zodiac as February nineteen seventy nine in Sacramento, California.

614
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.159
Whether Gray Smith was right or not, it fit Jack perfectly.

615
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:34.960
Yeah, Teresa Matthews, I found some of my old Zodiac

616
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.039
stuff when I was unpacking things.

617
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:38.960
Right, we're about to climb into him.

618
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.280
He is absolutely correct in the chronological ordering of my presentation.

619
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:48.360
We are about to run smack dab into another mess

620
00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:51.920
of murders that are zodiac esque while Jack is back

621
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:57.360
in California. I did place in here a foyer file

622
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:01.599
referenced San Francisco Airtel to the Bureau the FBI Laboratory

623
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.960
data eleven twelve sixty nine. I don't know, so this

624
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:09.400
was being sent February fifteenth, nineteen seventy nine. It looks

625
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:13.079
like they are enclosed for the FBI Laboratory or workI

626
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:18.440
are work page containing transposition substitution ciphers relating to a

627
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:21.800
letter from the Zodiac dated eleven seven sixty nine, postmarked

628
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:25.400
eleven eight sixty nine. Seven pages of worksheets relating to

629
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.320
the decoding of the Zodiac message, one page setting out

630
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.760
a type summary of the seven pages mentioned from a

631
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:38.239
publication making reference to the fact that National Security Agency

632
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.480
and CIA have assigned their crypto analysis personnel to breaking

633
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:46.440
the Zodiac code. So this individual is actually sending in

634
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:51.519
his version of uh breaking the code for the three

635
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:53.760
forty and I sent this to you, right, Aria.

636
00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:00.119
I believe so, yeah, it's supposed to be, but it's

637
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:03.519
something that I think Bray Smith also used to do

638
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:07.679
a version of his code breaking in his original Zodiac,

639
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.719
which is talking about Lake County and things like that.

640
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.559
And they did, they literally redacted whoever it was on

641
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:20.000
this foil file. It does indicate a business telephone number,

642
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:24.159
a home telephone number, but it doesn't actually tell you

643
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:27.239
what those numbers are, who the person is. It says

644
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:35.360
this person telephonically contacted SAC Sergeant McKinnon of San Francisco,

645
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:38.199
indicating that he had thought he had broken the Zodiac

646
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:41.760
code in connection with the message postmarked eleven eight sixty nine.

647
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.360
He was contacted by I'm going to say either San Francisco.

648
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:48.400
It looks like McKinnon again is typed out. I see

649
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.920
Ann at the end of the redaction on February thirteenth

650
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.079
of nineteen seventy nine, and furnished the material which is enclosed,

651
00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:58.280
for the FBI lab and requested that a confirmation be made.

652
00:36:58.199 --> 00:36:59.239
On his findings.

653
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.199
Now, I did not find a message that he literally

654
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.480
came out with, but I did attempt to apply the

655
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:08.800
symbols and the substitution of the actual letters of the

656
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.639
alphabet to the three point forty cipher to determine whether

657
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:14.719
or not it came up with a message. I did

658
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.960
not come up with a c complete message, but I

659
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.159
did come up with words that could be perceived as

660
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.079
herb Herb Kane, which we know that we just came

661
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:29.039
off of a letter to Herb Kane. I give them

662
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:35.400
hell too. We're specific words that came out these fools. Again,

663
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:39.400
fools is used several times in the Zodiac communications without

664
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.719
it being a solve by Harriet. You can actually see

665
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:45.880
them in the messages. And we've even had Laurence Swarringham

666
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:48.559
who has done solves, and he's come up with the

667
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:50.960
word fools as well. So it seems to be something

668
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.320
that is recreated each time another person attempts to make

669
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:54.880
this solve.

670
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:57.519
I don't know who this person is yet.

671
00:37:57.559 --> 00:37:59.679
Again, but if you have a chance to look at

672
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.480
that and see what you can make out of it, Harriet,

673
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:02.320
that would be awesome.

674
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.000
That leads us right on into go ahead.

675
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.800
I was just going to say, I think that's very

676
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:15.679
much with that timeframe is when Ray Smith claims that

677
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.480
he came up with the substitution Cypher's style message and

678
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.239
it's in his original book, so he might be that

679
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:27.280
secret person that they redacted in the Business at Rest

680
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:27.760
and so on.

681
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:32.280
Yeah, and not even anything that they confirmed. I think

682
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.920
they might have said that Arthur Lee Allen had some

683
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.119
books on codes and ciphers, but they didn't show in

684
00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:41.360
any way, shape or form that he was astute in.

685
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.599
Doing them, Like you didn't give me any evidence that.

686
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.039
I mean a lot of people have books. I've got

687
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.400
books I intended to read. Didn't mean I read them.

688
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:51.760
And could that later m me up for some crime

689
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.360
because those type of methods were used in the crime,

690
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.280
I don't know. But that does bring us to the

691
00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:59.960
first murder in February twenty fourth of nineteen seventy nine.

692
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.639
And as Harriet just stated, Theresa Matthews and Sacramento found

693
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.920
in the Russian River. She was strangled. We do have

694
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:11.960
other girls in in rivers, so we had what that

695
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:17.239
was the blow Eva blow was found in the Russian

696
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:17.920
River area.

697
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:24.119
No, she was actually according to the salls that I got,

698
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:29.199
that she was actually killed with Marie on stay. But

699
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:34.400
her body was transported and dumped in a specific location

700
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:39.039
in Santa Rosa. But so she wasn't in a river.

701
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.280
But Mari and then and Ava were right next to

702
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.800
puta creek that's water right, there.

703
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:57.960
Was a waterways, yes exactly. And you see Davis is

704
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.679
where he's purportedly based on Harriet's Saul was receiving help

705
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:06.960
for his uh what would you call that drug problem?

706
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:09.880
Drug problem?

707
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.760
He's he's having flashbacks, something's triggered him and it's going

708
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:19.199
really crazy, and it's it's he's keeping on seeing Frank

709
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:22.000
Olsen jumping out the window, and then he's trying to

710
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.960
get the rest of the cure. My god, he spends

711
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.400
nine years looking for that, that's what we're reaying.

712
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:31.360
So, yeah, we know Frank Olsen was thrown out of

713
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:32.880
the window. He didn't jump.

714
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:36.960
Right right, No, No, he comes on seeing Frank Olsen

715
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.840
being pushed out the windows. The many saw that. We've

716
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:44.280
even discussed on the shows, and it's amazing, and that's

717
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.559
why I think he's trying to get that help and

718
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.480
it's sticking. In nine years, they finally get the salt

719
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:50.239
of the stuff.

720
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.320
And we just saw that solved here recently, right the

721
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:59.360
friction tape letter, Yeah, well was that the herbcane letter.

722
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:04.239
It's but it's it's where he's saying, oh my god,

723
00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:07.760
he's doing a reversal on Jimmy Carter. He says, I

724
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.880
owe you one, uh car, the only one who answered yeah.

725
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:17.320
All kinds of that whole time frame. So, but there's

726
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.719
more that that's coming at you next week. So okay,

727
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:24.719
hold on your seat because that's what we're getting into,

728
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:26.480
is the Atlanta child killer stuff.

729
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.679
Yeah, yeah, it's coming up here quick, you guys, And

730
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.840
and it's kind of astounding. Have you have you taken

731
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.840
a look at the ghost killer letter, the cursive written

732
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:40.840
poem that he sends.

733
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:45.679
No, I haven't seen that one, but I got some

734
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.039
stuff on Bob Crane that's linking to the Atlanta child

735
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:53.840
killer stuff. And then I do really odiac Atlanta killer

736
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:58.960
child killer pages in the envelope, and then something very

737
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.920
surprising of a complete anagram of that's supposed to be

738
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.440
Ani Oh my god, an FBI file. And so multiple

739
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.320
times he's saying things that happen and it's you know,

740
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:14.440
Carter's now involved, but he's not the president anymore, so

741
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:18.000
you know, hang on to your seats, people, Okay, it's

742
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:20.079
coming YouTube.

743
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.800
He's getting really busy these days. So on Mark, So,

744
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:26.280
I don't have a lot of information on Teresa Matthews.

745
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.800
Did you have any information on her other than what

746
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:29.400
I stated?

747
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:31.639
No?

748
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:36.320
But sounding the way it is, it looks like she

749
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:42.679
was involved with probably the same people as Eva Bloom Marion.

750
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.760
Stay because uh, for her to be ending up with

751
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:51.599
no clothes on. It's positioned, the body's positioned a certain way,

752
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.199
and the evidence tells the story. So I haven't done

753
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:57.159
her exactly as an evidence fall.

754
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.400
Okay, So then that brings us to March seventh, nineteen

755
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.599
seventy nine, Catherin d Harlan and North Highlands, California. Again,

756
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:08.639
we've got a Sacramento individual. If you're not familiar with

757
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.559
the inner cities of Sacramento. North Highlands is pretty much

758
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.239
right next to what would be considered Sacramento City.

759
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.760
Nine years old. Last scene at seven thirty am.

760
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:23.480
Body discovered justin side Center County, off power Line Road.

761
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:26.639
Murdered and left in a remote location. As with most

762
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:29.840
of the victims, this is this is my I thought

763
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.719
this was jack returning to California and claiming us for skill,

764
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:35.599
but we do see, Teresa Matthews actually happened before.

765
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:41.960
This Islands is right next to McClellan Air Force Base too,

766
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:44.280
and Jackson would like to hang out in your Air

767
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:44.920
force bases.

768
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:49.800
Yes, I didn't think about that, but you are absolutely correct.

769
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:51.960
At that time was still an operational base.

770
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:56.519
It's closed right right, Well, they still have the VA

771
00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:57.039
out there.

772
00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:58.880
And I think they still have a BX out there

773
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.280
because I used to take my my grandfather to get

774
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.920
his groceries and things of that nature. But for the

775
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:08.079
most part, it's not an active military base anymore. And

776
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:10.480
it shows that this is Jack returning to California and

777
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.239
claiming Nick Hill in his own in his old neighborhood

778
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.119
before he left to Minnesota. And it's not on the

779
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:21.639
murder maps of bets. So May tenth of nineteen seventy nine,

780
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:26.920
Shuri Dyne Banna of Napa, California goes missing. She's found

781
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:31.119
May eighteenth, nineteen seventy nine, Reservoir Road in Benetia. So

782
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:34.440
again we've got these cross connections. It's one mile from

783
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:38.840
Lake Herman Road turnout stab twenty or more times, possible

784
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.039
strangulation and blunt force object wearing a dark sweater, blue jeans,

785
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.000
tennis shoes and her glasses. Almost a ten year anniversary

786
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:49.719
to the Lake Herman Road murders June sixth of nineteen

787
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:50.400
seventy one.

788
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:52.679
Yeah, on North.

789
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:59.360
Highlands, it's really close to the trailer park on Auburn Boulevard.

790
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.440
Is there Watt in auburns were I believe the trailer

791
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:05.760
park that Dennis is referring to that they they've.

792
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:07.800
Got a lot in and that's just right up there.

793
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:09.760
North Island's really close.

794
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:12.719
I actually I actually have that mapped out and it's

795
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:17.360
at Orange Grove Boulevard, so where the FBI fields not

796
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:17.960
far either.

797
00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:19.480
No, and in.

798
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.880
Nineteen seventy nine, well, i'll check, we're coming up on it.

799
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.079
But I did research and find that the Sacramento field

800
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:28.840
office for the FBI moved to the location of the

801
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.159
mobile home park where Jack had originally lived at a

802
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:36.880
later date. So when June sixth, nineteen seventy nine, we

803
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:41.960
have Tara Cassi from San Pablo, California, nine years old, disappeared.

804
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.719
Not to be found, not on murder map.

805
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:48.320
Of bets either, so that I had left to research

806
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:50.679
all of these. Actually I would like to research, because

807
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.760
it was very limit on the information that I was

808
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:56.239
able to provide in these cases other than they're unsolved.

809
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:59.559
So March ninth of nineteen eighty one, we.

810
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:01.639
Have why is this here so soon?

811
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:07.480
Envelope postmarked Atlanta, Georgia, three oh three pm, eighth of

812
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:11.079
March nineteen eighty one, bearing the handprinted address sixteen eleven

813
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:17.360
West Peachtree Street, Northeast three oh threeh eight, accompanying a

814
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:21.360
one page hand printed letter beginning Hello, it's me and

815
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:23.159
I believe this letter goes on to say, haven't you

816
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:26.400
figured out who's killing these kiddies? And so this is

817
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.639
an associated letter to the Zodiac case because the handwriting

818
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:33.840
is a match. It says, on the result of their examination,

819
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:36.360
it could not be determined whether the writer of the

820
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.079
Zodiac letter in the case Zodiac Extortion prepared the question

821
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.920
writing on specimens Q twenty seven and Q twenty eight.

822
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:49.119
Because of the distortion and unexplained variations, it's called manipulation, folks.

823
00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:55.599
He's manipulated handwriting. He's attempting to disguise it. But we

824
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:57.960
do see that that letter and the forums are very

825
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.519
consistent with the John Bennet Ramsey writing. There are very

826
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:05.679
various different letters in the collection that it is similar to.

827
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:08.119
So I'm not sure why they came up with this conclusion,

828
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:12.360
other than they again, we've got a great distance. They

829
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.639
probably don't see that the Zodiac is over here operating

830
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:19.400
in Atlanta when he's clearly over here operating in California

831
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.079
at that time. Either way, nineteen eighty one's a little

832
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:23.840
ahead of the game. But I just did want to

833
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:27.280
say that Dennis claims that in nineteen seventy nine, what's that?

834
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.519
Oh, I was just going to say, that's one of

835
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.559
the letters that's coming to you very quickly.

836
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:36.079
Yes, Yes, this was coming up.

837
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.239
And it was interesting because when I introduced the idea

838
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.559
of the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases and letters to Dennis,

839
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.519
it took him some time because again, he wasn't trying

840
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:48.920
to wrap his mind around all of these other locations

841
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.280
and unsolved murders. He really was kind of focused and

842
00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:54.679
just trying to stay strictly on the zodiac. But at

843
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:57.760
one point in time, it jogged a memory inside of

844
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.719
him and he claimed that from nineteen teen seventy nine

845
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.679
to nineteen eighty one that Jack would take him and

846
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:06.480
his friend camping frequently at Loon Lake for a week

847
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:08.400
at a time, and Jack would leave him there for

848
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:11.000
days in a row. No one but them knew Jack

849
00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:15.119
had left, not even Nora. So Jack would then have

850
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:18.559
the freedom to travel to wherever he wanted to in

851
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.039
order to facilitate these types of crimes that puts us

852
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:24.920
down to our arm. Basically, we're coming into our last minute.

853
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:25.760
I'm going to try and get.

854
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.039
A couple more pieces out.

855
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:29.400
I did put a map up here that shows Sacramento,

856
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:33.079
California versus Bloom Lake. So it was approximately two hours

857
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.960
out that Jack would take these voys.

858
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:35.119
Two.

859
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.880
Jack used to pinpoint their location in the woods using

860
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.280
an AM radio. He would find the direction of two

861
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:44.440
AM stations by turning the radio until the station was gone,

862
00:48:44.679 --> 00:48:47.159
and using a compass he would find magnetic north, and

863
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:49.400
where the two lines came together on the map would

864
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.199
be their location. So now we have a reference to

865
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:56.320
Jack specifically using magnetic north, which was used on the

866
00:48:56.440 --> 00:49:01.199
Mount Diablo map. As anything anybody would like to add

867
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.280
at this point, as we come into clothes on this

868
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:06.360
particular what's that?

869
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:12.039
I can't? I thought I had what's that?

870
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:14.199
Go ahead?

871
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.719
No, I'm all right, Harry, do you have Do you

872
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:18.840
guys have anything to add? We're down to our final

873
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:19.760
seconds on here?

874
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:26.559
Have the weekend excited about doing the Atlanta the Atlanta

875
00:49:26.679 --> 00:49:30.480
coversions of stuff, And I'm like, yes, I'll get you

876
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:33.719
in right now because I'm seeing that there's gonna be

877
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:35.760
things that are going to rock some people's world.

878
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:40.000
Sure, I'm gonna okay, I gotta close out Okay, I

879
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.239
have to close out. I'll get you those letters, Harriet.

880
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.159
Everybody have a wonderful weekend and we'll see you next Friday.

881
00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:45.639
Take care

882
00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:03.159
A long and family