Sept. 26, 2025

Jack Leaves Texas for Arizona Cont…

Jack Leaves Texas for Arizona Cont…
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Caught up in current government conspiracies last week, we never made it to Jack. Jack attends a school reunion even though he quit in 8th grade. May very well have been Chubb’s reunion, but Jack knows the people there. We see Jack flying over CA in August and visiting Dennis and Charles. Jack and Nora get back together then heads back to Texas per Nora’s diary. Phoenix, AZ has a murder that includes bisection and Nora’s diary says that Jack is moving the family to Phoenix, AZ. Coincidence???

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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I'd like to introduce to the show today, Nolan del Campo, Oh, everybody,

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good morning, and Lindsay mcbraer, Hey, good morning.

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All right.

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Well, I keep hearing back from this Kazpog guy on

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my comments, and of course he always alludes to his

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his uh person of interest, but he never really gives

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me a clue as to who it is. Today, I

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got a personal name, so he sent to me. He said, saying,

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I'm glad that you brought up all these other murders

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in Texas because my person of interest, I think is

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responsible for a lot of unsolved murders as well. That's

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why I asked what Jack's last name was. Maybe Jack

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is the same person that I'm talking about.

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Bill. I don't think I like Iranian or something.

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Kasbay I think is just his screen name. I've seen

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kas the clown, I've seen. I think that Lindsay you

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saw one of his podcasts. He was hiding in a

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tent or something like that.

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Yes, yes, and like he was saying how that people

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were watching him and he was hiding out, and I

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was like, what is going on with this dude?

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Yeah, he looked like he had created himself a sheet fork.

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He can if he's watching, he can tell us a

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little bit more about.

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That something don't rock the ksvall. Yeah. Well, he also

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goes on to say a lot of people say there's

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no way that one man could commit so many murders,

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But I believe one man committed a ton of murders,

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over one hundred murders. Well, good lord, haven't we said

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that a million times in the nineteen eighty six letters.

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Says one hundred plus all over California Nevada. We're just

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silly to think that it's isolated in those two areas.

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But like I had indicated when I sent back to him,

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the Texas Rangers couldn't have attempted to close over two

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hundred cases across the country on one person, unless it

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was possible that one person could have committed all those crimes,

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right right, So yeah, well.

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Texas Rangers didn't do their jobs, he asked me. They

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just wanted to close the cases. They didn't care if

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it was justice or done.

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No, of course.

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Well yeah, and they still do that.

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I feel like a lot around the country.

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So it's kind of DiAngelo. They pinned a lot of

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stuff on him that he made.

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Out have been right, just blanket pollush it underneath.

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YEP.

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I actually received back a letter from the Humanity for

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Prisoners on the wrongful conviction case of Peter Wilson. So

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I basically sent it out to a whole bunch of people,

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kind of like I did with the Zodiac with Dennis

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and I, you know, going to different law enforcement agencies

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and I sent I actually reached out to Julie Watts

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of CBS thirteen News. She's an investigative reporter. She reached

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back out to me and asked for additional information, but

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I've not heard anything since, so I'm not sure if

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she's working on it, if she's round filed it.

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Or what.

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She's done the letter that I got from the Humanity

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for Prisoners, and this is kind of the response you

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get from people They just don't either have the time

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or wherewithal. But it says, dear miss Bartow, please forgive

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me for this late response to your letter of June tenth.

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It had been misfiled.

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Okay.

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I'm not sure that I can do anything to assist

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in preparing a rid of habeas corpus for mister Wilson,

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but I like the record to show that I completely

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support the effort and I am convinced he is an

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innocent man. Thank you for your work on this project.

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Eh.

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Yeah, So.

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At the second job was represented by a public defender, Yes, okay,

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so well, the public definners always do a notice of

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appeal on a feeling matter. It's required their job. And

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every convicted fella in California is entitled to appeal by

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right as long as you do the notice of appeal.

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So he must have had an appeal, but he's he's

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not getting back to us on that issue, because.

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I'd like to look up his appeal and read well

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why it was denied.

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Well, he it hasn't been denied, and he did file,

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the rid of having no yeah years ago exactly exactly.

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Yeah. So if he's at the hevia stage, that means

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he's already gone through the appeal stage.

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Right well, and again based on the limited amount of

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information and evidence that he had at that time. His

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exculpatory evidence was missing, there was missing police files, his

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blood splashed all over the scene by the officer. It

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looked like he did it. I mean, what was there

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to appeal? I think that appeal only amounts to whether

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or not the court violated any of his rights or

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broke any laws in their attempt to convict him, right or.

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The prosecutor And some of the stuff we've shown on

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this show shows that there was a lot of wrongful

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action by the prosecutor later get a judge.

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And I don't think the public defender was probably had

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his teeth into it like you should have. I don't

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think that he Yeah, I don't even think.

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To from the public defender's office.

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The appeal itself gets assigned to an appellate panel attorney

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depending that would be the barrier, So that would be a.

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Sea Cap and Sacramento. They have a different name.

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In San Francisco, but it's appellet project, and it's so

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we'd go to a panel attorney to do.

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The appeal, right.

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But the thing is is, we have no idea if

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his attorney didn't even do the job the first time

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around in court asking for the right forensics, asking for

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the results on various different things like the cigarette bud

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or the semen or the you know, any of this stuff,

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if he wasn't at asking for that stuff in court,

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and of course, like we said, in the second round,

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she had all of that stuff squashed, so the jury

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wasn't even hearing third party ability. Literally they were just

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fully deciding on whether or not he was guilty based

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on his blood being at the crime scene.

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Yeah.

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Well there's also where you always argue ineffective assistance of

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counsel at the prolo.

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Right, but again without knowing all the things that he

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knew that he knows now, you know, he didn't get

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most of this information and didn't realize.

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That's why he still might have a Chancellor Heavius.

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I'm so yeah, and gosh, I feel like he's applied

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for this over a year almost maybe even two years now.

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It seems like it's been going on for a minute.

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But while I was at it at the same time.

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I've been cleaning out my office installing new cabinets again,

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and came across these business cards over here which I

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thought were interesting. There's one from Aphrodite Jones up there

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in the left hand corner from when we did the

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episode on True Crime The Zodiac. And then I found

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the City of Napa, Todd Schulman, he's a detective for

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the Napa Police Department. And then Pat McMahon, Deputy sheriff

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for Napa County Sheriff's Department. Dennis and I met with

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these two individuals, and of course they had just been

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given grant money by the either the state or the

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government in order to go back and look at some

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cold cases, but they had indicated they had more evidence

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in other cases that they were going to spend the

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money there trying to solve those I wish I would

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have known what those cases were and how they actually

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disposed of those cases, whether or not they actively used

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that money for what it was supposed to be used for.

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Either way, they just kind of looked at us and said, no, well, okay,

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have a nice day. So I basically gave him my

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handwriting Rundown and then we were out the door and

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never heard from them again. So they obviously weren't any

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more interested in investigating this case. As then the San

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Francisco PD was.

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That's crazy, since we're that law enforcement doesn't want to

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go back and admit that they missed something if it's old,

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you know, the cold case well, admitting that they did

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a poor job, went back in the day when the

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crime went down.

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And I don't understand the resistance at all, because when

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I went back, I was just a couple of years ago.

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I did the friction ridge fingerprint class at the NAPA

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Sheriff's Department, and I spoke with the gal that ran

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the forensics and the finger print department, and she was

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interested in taking a look at it. She asked her

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boss or one of the cold case detectives, whether or

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not we could look at the fingerprints in comparison to

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the one the right thumb print that we have of

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Jack on his military records, and she was shot down

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with a hard no, Wow, why we're we're willing to

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do it. We're willing to look at it like this

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is no off your guys's balls. You're not having to

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put out any resources for this like, literally, we're willing

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to do this and we're just being shot down even

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being given the evidence necessary to do it. And it

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just blows my mind. But Hall and all kind of

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the same response we got there from that project, right,

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The FBI pretty much said the same thing to me.

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Nobody else is going to do this. No, no, and we

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don't have the resources. Okay, so I've done it, Now

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what are we going to do with it? Really? So

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this brings us back to April nine, April nineteenth of

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nineteen ninety two. Jack is at a fat family gathering

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for easta Easter. We don't see Nora and Charles in

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these pictures, there's no mention of them. This again, is

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this year that Jack and Nora are separated. Nora is

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back in California with Charles and Jack is in Texas

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basically at his mom's house. So we see pictures of

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Flova's house on the far right over here, this is

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the one on Shady Oaks, and then Chubb's place in

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sagein and this is probably approximately forty five minutes from Dale, Texas,

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which I believe is where the Shady Oaks house is.

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And Mason in.

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The third photo who's the.

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Man that says I think it says Scott. So Granny

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and Scott Chubb's House, Easter nineteen ninety two, Texas.

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Okay, and Scott is what relation?

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I want to say that's Chubbs's son, and I won't.

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And I think that Chubbs, I mean, I'm not sure

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if it is Flova's brother. He looks about to be

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Jack's age, so I'm wondering if he's a cousin. And

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maybe Gary or one of the family members that reach

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out to me every now and again is watching this

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episode and I'll be able to tell us who who

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these individuals are in play. I thought Chubbs was was

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Chuck who died, but it turns out I had them confused.

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So Chubbs is different than Chuck. Chuck is Jack's brother

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who died and we read his eulogy not too long ago.

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In the present, we do have another Ice seventy murder.

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On May seventh of nineteen ninety two, Sarah Blessing and

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Saint Louis, Missouri at a strip mall gift shop in

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broad daylight. Witnesses confirmed sighting in Wichita, and the ballistics

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confirmed that all of the Ice seventy murders are connected

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by the by the bullets to be the same killer,

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so we know it is the same person that's hopping

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around doing this. We do see an envelope for Nora's

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Hearnce where the address of Sunrise Avenue has been crossed out,

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and now it has the Saint Patrick Court and Citrus Heights,

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which is where she is at at the time. This

226
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:42.440
address has not been established for Jacket based on any

227
00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:45.320
of the information I have, So again this confirms the breakup.

228
00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:53.279
Let's see. Okay, so the Patrick Saint Patrick Court turns

229
00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.000
out to have been Dennis's address. So this envelope is

230
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.240
coming from the law offices of Racy Esterbrook, and it

231
00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:02.000
shows that he's a personal injury and criminal law attorney,

232
00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.240
but I don't know what business Nora has with him

233
00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:09.559
at this time. Then we hop back over to Texas

234
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.360
and we see Jack at a reunion in Peacock, Texas

235
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:14.840
on July of ninety two. This is where we see

236
00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.879
Chubbs up here in the left hand picture. Where's my Oh,

237
00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.960
there you are. Chubbs is up here in this left

238
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.120
hand side of the picture, and we have Jack over

239
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:29.039
here on the right side. I noted his barrel chested

240
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:33.559
body frame here because as we climb into nineteen ninety six,

241
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.279
it is one of the witness's statements in regards to

242
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:39.639
a possible suspect with John Benny Ramsay. But we see

243
00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:44.960
the weight that Jack has put on, so Jack has

244
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.759
supposedly only finished eighth grade. So I'm not sure how

245
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:52.039
he's at this reunion, whether it's Chubbs's reunion, But he

246
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.639
seems to be familiar with all the individuals, so he

247
00:13:54.759 --> 00:14:00.320
notates Jake and Bill Peacock reunion, and then Jake and

248
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:03.480
Bill again over here, so he knows some of these people,

249
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.480
and we see Jack standing behind him right there. He

250
00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.720
knows these individuals, so maybe he did go to the

251
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.519
school with them, But again his records show that he

252
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.440
only finished up to eighth grade, so I don't know

253
00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:16.080
what kind of reunion this would be.

254
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:18.759
Peacock.

255
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.759
Peacock, Texas is not that big. As a matter of fact,

256
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.240
Jack listed in one of these pictures up here, we

257
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.399
can see that the whole downtown had what looked like

258
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:35.759
four businesses but huge so it said one store was

259
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.360
left open two days a week. Second hand in antique

260
00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:44.039
in Peacock, Texas, reunion. G A Bradford's Widow has A

261
00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:48.000
store was a grocery until Ga died in nineteen ninety one,

262
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.919
and now it literally has a population of about one

263
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.000
hundred and twenty five people in this entire town almost

264
00:14:55.039 --> 00:15:00.600
like just basically dwindling down to nothingness. Get it. There's

265
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.279
no stores, there's no gas stations, there's no nothing here.

266
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:03.879
It looks like.

267
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.840
Now and.

268
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.000
Right, not even a McDonald's. You got to drive ten

269
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:21.519
miles in the snow, Starbucks appear right, I'm dying laughing.

270
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.360
So I had my grandkids this last weekend, and my

271
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.559
granddaughter was saying to me, she goes, you know, Nana,

272
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.279
if if you let this thing time out, and she's

273
00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.639
talking about the TV, Netflix, anything streaming. Basically she said,

274
00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:36.759
if you don't catch it and press that you want

275
00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.799
to continue, it will actually kick you completely out and

276
00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:41.480
then you have to log all the way back in

277
00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:42.919
and go all the way back to where you were

278
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:44.840
and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I

279
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:48.519
felt myself having that five mile in the snow, barefoot

280
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.399
walk conversation with her. But it went something like this,

281
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:53.320
I'm like girl back on my day we could turn

282
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.240
the TV on and it would stay on all day long.

283
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.039
And now you've watched and it's a joke.

284
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.360
Well, your TV, I think, even senses when you are

285
00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.519
in the room and when you're not, and we'll literally

286
00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.120
literally like a computer, go to sleep on your butt.

287
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.240
I think I think that there is evidence of the

288
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:19.080
Samsung Smart TV's for sure that you can do that.

289
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.039
Yeah, yeah, and that's what I have. Lucky me. Woo.

290
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:24.720
I know I have one too.

291
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.559
Yeah, but I didn't even discover that until I'd already

292
00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:29.320
bought it. So I was like, well, right.

293
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.480
But it's a plasma, it's about twenty years old.

294
00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.000
Oh yeah, yours isn't timing out on you. You can turn

295
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:37.919
it on, it's gonna.

296
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.600
Stay on the master bedroom.

297
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.159
But that that's things that our children are never gonna

298
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.080
know of, you know. And you turn a TV on

299
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:47.240
and the TV stays on.

300
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:53.039
What mine?

301
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:55.720
Mine likes to also time out at two hours for

302
00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.080
whatever the reason. So if I don't grab the remote

303
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.559
to attempt to turn it to, you know, stop it

304
00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.720
from timing out, it'll give me a sixty second counter.

305
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.319
And if I don't find that remote quick enough, everything

306
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:14.640
shuts off. Cool it's control, right, and it's literally more busy.

307
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.160
It's saying worse farther than you are, or we know

308
00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.400
better what's good for you than you do.

309
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:22.839
Yeah.

310
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.039
Well, and they make it out to be something that's good,

311
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.440
but in reality it's not.

312
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:32.319
One is learning us right now, he says, it's a setting.

313
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:33.200
You can change it.

314
00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.279
I still think that they still can. They still know right,

315
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:44.759
even if the setting is off.

316
00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:51.119
Yeah. Well, Jack seems to be awfully busy this particular year,

317
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.920
and how he's traveling and how he's getting around, I

318
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.000
am not quite sure. I know that he was fighting

319
00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:00.279
for his disability still at this point, but now we

320
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.000
see him in a plane and he writes on the

321
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:05.920
back of it Loon Lake eight twenty two ninety two,

322
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.599
altitude thirty five thousand feet. Now, I like to bring

323
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:13.920
this one up because this is something that Dbee Cooper

324
00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.839
did when he called out Tacoma and the Air Force

325
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.400
base in dB Cooper, he stated they were at twenty

326
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.279
six thousand feet and he knew that a location of

327
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.200
Tacoma Lake. So to see this picture, which of course

328
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.559
you can kind of barely tell it, but there's the

329
00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.960
lake right dead center of the picture. He's at and

330
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.519
he knows how he knows. I don't know, because I'm

331
00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:37.799
pretty sure they don't have those nifty screens on the

332
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:39.519
back of the seats for you to stare at to

333
00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.240
see where you're flying, like we got to see when

334
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.759
we were going to Ireland, and it told you your altitude,

335
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:47.680
it told you how fast you were going, how many

336
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.160
miles you've gone, and how many miles till you get there.

337
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:52.799
I'm pretty sure in nineteen ninety two they didn't have that,

338
00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.240
but somehow jacknaw at thirty five thousand feet. Let's see, Yeah,

339
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:03.480
Lake Tacoma at twenty thousand feet is what Dbe Cooper said.

340
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:03.799
Near the.

341
00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.920
Air Force base, which was another thing that he had quoted.

342
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.119
And Loon Lake was that lake in specific that Dennis

343
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.000
talked about that in nineteen eighty early nineteen eighties, Jack

344
00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.279
would take him and his friend and drop him off

345
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.319
and be gone for days and week at a time.

346
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.160
So yeah, now except towards Tahoe, right.

347
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:37.480
I want to say, well, let's see Loon You can

348
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.880
see it right here, so yeah, it looks like it

349
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.920
might be up fifty because you're going towards South Lake Tahoe, right,

350
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:50.000
there and here's lake. Yeah, it's about two hours from Sacramento.

351
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.799
So again I believe that this picture that he's quoting

352
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.720
the thirty five thousand feet over Loon Lake indicates he's

353
00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:02.240
coming into or leaving out of California. So I'm not

354
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.799
exactly sure if this is coming in or if this

355
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.400
is leaving. But we do show a picture where he

356
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.839
states that he's visiting Dennis Charles at Dennis's house on

357
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:15.839
Saint Patrick Court. We just talked about that address in

358
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.400
Citrus Heights summer of nineteen ninety two. Though it didn't

359
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:24.200
give me a precise month, we know that this also

360
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:28.240
again confirms that Jack and Nora are not together. And

361
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.400
I wanted to emphasize something. I have two sets of

362
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:35.440
diaries for Nora, one for nineteen ninety three, which is

363
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.440
this going to talk about this move into Arizona, and

364
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.279
one for nineteen ninety six, and I found it rather

365
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.519
odd that these were the only two years that Jack

366
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.240
would have kept if he was keeping her diaries. But

367
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.839
two of these, both of these relate to or are

368
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:55.079
indicators of upcoming crimes and things that have occurred. So

369
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.160
this is says the year of nineteen ninety three, but

370
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.640
it's actually in ending with November first, and it says

371
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.319
Jack and Nora gets back together in California and she

372
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.720
returns to Texas with Jack per her diary, and they

373
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:14.519
returned to Texas by November fourth. We do see a

374
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.839
cable bill that Jack is paying from August through February

375
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:20.920
of nineteen ninety three, which indicates that he is at

376
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:25.480
the Shady Oaks lot in Texas with Flova. So all

377
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:28.640
of that stuff is coinciding, and now at this point

378
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.440
in time we see Jack and Nora getting back together.

379
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.079
That brings us to our first murder in Phoenix, Arizona,

380
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.240
and the reason why I indicate that it's interesting that

381
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.279
nineteen ninety three was a year of her diary that

382
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.759
he kept, because it really tracks where they are going

383
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.200
and what they're up to. But this murder is probably

384
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.079
another one of those gruesome ones like Black Dahlia. It

385
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.519
was a twenty two year old, It was in a park,

386
00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.640
she took a bike ride. The bike is missed. It says,

387
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.119
I don't know why I put in their reason for

388
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.519
pointing out a bike. But South Carolina murders, California and

389
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:16.839
another Arizona murder all included bikes. The headless body was

390
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.680
found in a park south of Cactus Road, which is

391
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:23.039
like I indicated the bisection that we saw in Elizabeth

392
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:25.599
Short and the Lipstick and I forty five murders with

393
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.440
partial bones being found in graves of other bodies. The

394
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:31.359
head was found in a stretch of the canal about

395
00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:36.000
two miles south of where her body was found the canal.

396
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.160
See this is why I pay Oh my god, I

397
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.920
know again we have the headless boy of Walsh, right,

398
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:50.319
we have another headless individual, and schools are being found here,

399
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.960
there and everywhere. And we've got don Alasa's yeah, found

400
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.480
on eighty and twenty. So it seems to be something

401
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.319
that that's exactly why I pulled this in, and the

402
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.920
fact that they're getting ready to move to Arizona screams volumes,

403
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.720
wait till we get into that. Information also shows that

404
00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:12.119
the abdomen and chest were cut open, which again that's

405
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.839
more Elizabeth Short stuff. I put in here to research

406
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.640
Buffalo Bill. I know it's another movie, but for whatever reason,

407
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.839
there always seems to be some media play in whatever's

408
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.160
going on. The newspaper reads.

409
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.559
So I want you guys to watch this weekend real

410
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:31.440
quick Snake Guys from that. I think it's nineteen ninety

411
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:36.000
six movie with Nicholas Cage called Snake As I watched

412
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:37.640
it last night, if everybody's.

413
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.799
Been talking about it all over social.

414
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:42.319
Media, and it does tell a lot, so just stick

415
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:43.359
that in there before I forget.

416
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:51.920
Okay, Hello, yep, we lost you? What did you say?

417
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:53.640
Watch what Snake Guys?

418
00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:57.759
Was it just me the lost everybody?

419
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.319
Yeah?

420
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:05.680
I think she lost hers again. Everything started spinning. Even

421
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:10.240
my own PowerPoint presentation went blank and was spinning like

422
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.680
everything was buffering on my end. So yeah, I missed it,

423
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:23.240
he says, I hear everyone. Okay, go ahead, lindsay sorry.

424
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.400
So Snake Guys is thank you. I think it's from

425
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.000
nineteen ninety six and it had the main character is

426
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:34.400
Nicholas Cage in his younger days and it's very telling

427
00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:40.400
about things that are happening now. So yeah, yeah, it's

428
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.599
a good, thank good watch for this weekend if y'all

429
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.839
don't have anything to watch.

430
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:47.599
Snake Guys. All right, all right, So the newspaper on this,

431
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.000
gal angel Lebrosso reads, was beheaded and disemboweled after she

432
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.079
left her uh Northwest Phoenix apartment for nightly bike ride

433
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:59.039
through Cave Creek Park. Slain was one of the valley's

434
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.440
most gruesome killing. It has never been solved. Angela's body

435
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:04.640
was found on her twenty second birthday on a bike

436
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.279
trail near Cactus Road in Interstate seventeen. Her abdomen and

437
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:10.599
chest had been cut open. Her head was a found

438
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.160
was found eleven days later in the Arizona Canal between

439
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.799
Dunlap and Peoria Avenues. Her walkman and her purple twenty

440
00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:23.240
one speed Diamondback bike have never been found. I put

441
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:25.279
in here I think that this was this could have

442
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.000
been a murder that Jack committed while scouting out the

443
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.240
next place that they're going to move to. As we've

444
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.720
seen in so many other situations, Jack moves goes to

445
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:38.440
wherever it is, just like Dennis said, goes to wherever

446
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.039
it is that he's scouting the new place on his own,

447
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.200
does his own reconnaissance, if you will, to figure out

448
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:46.119
where they're going to live. I believe that it is

449
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.880
possible he commits one murder at that point and then

450
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.440
comes back to get the family, and while he's gone

451
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.799
and they're heavily looking for a killer. In regards to

452
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.160
this body, that's back in the other state. They have

453
00:25:57.319 --> 00:25:59.920
no idea to even be looking at Jack because he

454
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.119
is not even around while the investigations going on. And

455
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:05.359
within three to six months he shows back up and

456
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:06.640
moves into that area.

457
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.240
They found the bike. You think the killer wouldn't want

458
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:14.000
to take the bike, it would be stupid.

459
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.240
Well, I want to show you here real quick. And

460
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.039
I mean, the coincidences are fairly heavy when it comes

461
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.759
to Jack in these cases. But I believe at some

462
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:31.960
point when we get here into into Arizona with the family,

463
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.720
that Charles ends up getting a bike. And I wish

464
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:39.279
Nora had like marked what kind of bike and color

465
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.480
it was?

466
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:47.519
Smoking again right, Well, you know there's a bike theory

467
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.799
in the John Bennet case too.

468
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:49.680
There's a bike theory.

469
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:55.319
I don't know if y'all went down that yeah that

470
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.559
you know they got bikes for that Christmas. But there's

471
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:05.400
some speculation as to uh, what's his name, her brother

472
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:09.079
riding the bike the night before down the road. But

473
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:13.440
then there's like other witnesses that say there that he did,

474
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:16.200
and then there's other witnesses say that he didn't and

475
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.880
the bike was uh. But then if they turned around

476
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.200
and said no, he didn't get this bike for Christmas.

477
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:23.759
It was like kind of like a lot of back

478
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.720
and forth in the in the case files as far

479
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.079
as like the family saying that he rode the bike,

480
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:31.279
or he didn't ride the bike, or he did get

481
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.720
a new bike, or was it you know he'd already

482
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.400
had that bike from his birthday. It was Yeah, like.

483
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.440
They're necessarily involved with the murder, just just them talking

484
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:42.039
about a bike.

485
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:48.759
Yeah, us, Yes, why would why would it be important

486
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.279
to put out story different stories about.

487
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.880
This bike right exactly? Yeah, and the night before? Who

488
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:56.759
cares about the night before? What we need to figure

489
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:03.480
out is what happened the night up? Yeah. Nah. And honestly,

490
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.119
there's several of these cases where the bike has been

491
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.359
laid on top of the victims. The bike has been

492
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:15.440
found you know X amount of feet away, same as

493
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.960
the cars in some of these cases, you know, blocks

494
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.759
to miles away. The suspect has taken the vehicle and

495
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.599
left it someplace else. And so basically, her bike going

496
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.880
missing just means it wasn't found around the body, but

497
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.720
she was known to have left off on her bike

498
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:32.480
to go for a ride that night, and the bike

499
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.200
is nowhere to be found. Now, this other murder was

500
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.559
a body found in West Pittsburgh and it shows well,

501
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.519
the obituary shows November tenth is the date of death,

502
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.200
So I'm assuming that it would have had to have

503
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:48.759
been somewhere between the first and tenth of November, which

504
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.799
I think We've got Jack pretty solid back in Texas

505
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.000
with Nora at this point in time, and if anything,

506
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.279
he's hopping back and forth to Arizona, which we have

507
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.319
some evidence of that as well. So I don't think

508
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:02.000
that this one was necessarily involved with these cases. But

509
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.839
Sandy Betts did think that this was possibly committed by

510
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:10.200
the Zodiac. Here's that evidence that we were talking about.

511
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:15.039
So I'm making an assumption when I say this only

512
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:19.519
because the expiration date on this particular it's a security

513
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.319
guard provisional certificate for it's issued by Arizona Department of

514
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.640
Public Safety, and it's issued to Jack Terrence. Now, of

515
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:29.839
course it says five of ninety two on it is

516
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:35.720
the revision date of this particular provisional license, but it

517
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:37.920
looks to be it looks to me that it has

518
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.359
probably a two year it's good for two years because

519
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.440
it expires on January twenty fifth of nineteen ninety five,

520
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.839
which would indicate that Jack is a has at least

521
00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.119
applied for it by January twenty fifth of nineteen ninety five,

522
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.119
which also means well, and again this you know, playing

523
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.200
with these dates a little bit here and there, is

524
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.640
that he probably had to do a background check, He

525
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.680
probably had to put in an application. There were probably

526
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.079
things that had to occur in order to obtain this

527
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.440
particular provisional license, which suggests that Jack has been frequenting

528
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.880
the Arizona area. Either way, we know that he's working

529
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.920
in Arizona by March of ninety five as a security guard,

530
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.240
at least based on the information that I have, So

531
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.880
it would suggest that yes, Jack has been frequenting Arizona

532
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.240
more than we know. On January twenty sixth of nineteen

533
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:34.079
ninety three, sixty three year old Dana E. Empringham on

534
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:36.960
the twenty six thousand block of Maple Wood, Spring, Texas,

535
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.559
Montgomery County. It's stated that he was widowed at the

536
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:42.880
time of his death. He used a wheelchair to get

537
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:45.359
around due to a leg injury, but was not confined

538
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.680
to it. He operated a gun shop out of his

539
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:50.119
home named DK Enterprise.

540
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:50.480
Inc.

541
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.279
And witnesses saw suspect running from the house to brown

542
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.480
Mercury cougar type vehicle and leave with the lights off.

543
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:00.839
The law enforcement believes it was raw So may not

544
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.559
even be related here to what we have going on

545
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.519
with Jack, but I have it in here because it's

546
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:09.480
another Texas murder and Jack is right next door basically,

547
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:13.519
and that brings us back to Nora's diary. We had

548
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:18.440
some more interesting reveals in this. It does state that

549
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:23.720
Jack had talked with his mother about moving to Phoenix, Arizona.

550
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:26.640
So this is the first mention on February twentieth of

551
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:34.640
Jack actually speaking to his mom about it. On oh yeah,

552
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:39.680
so I notated that it's interesting that this woman that's beheaded, disemboweled,

553
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.799
and all of these other things is exactly where Jack

554
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:47.240
is talking about on February twentieth of moving to Now

555
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.720
he is stating that he wants to move to Phoenix, Arizona,

556
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.119
and that is his goal, that's what he's looking at.

557
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.119
But we know that they eventually end up in Flagstaff,

558
00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.519
and this entry February twenty six is Jack was to

559
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.400
leave next week to Phoenix and me stay here and

560
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.640
take care of Granny. Red and find us a place.

561
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:09.640
So that confirms what Dennis says that Jack would leave

562
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.039
on his own to go look for wherever it is

563
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.160
they were going to move to, and then come back

564
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:18.440
and move the family with him. Nineteen ninety three to

565
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:23.559
nineteen ninety seven, ancestry dot com shows Jack and Comanche, Texas,

566
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:27.559
which is thirty miles from Gorman, Texas. But obviously he

567
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.200
is in Arizona from ninety three to ninety five per

568
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:33.759
his own records and Nora's diary. So ancestry dot com

569
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:35.119
can be wrong sometimes.

570
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.000
Well I found it to be wrong a lot too.

571
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.160
Well, and you know they can only piece back together

572
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:43.720
so much.

573
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.599
I mean, well, you know that's why it's always good

574
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.440
to use multiple sources.

575
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:58.519
Right, right, let's see, Okay, So here in this particular entry,

576
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.079
I guess after Jack had spoke to his mother about

577
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.880
moving to Phoenix, Arizona, he asked if she wanted to go,

578
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:10.559
and then of course they I guess they're already recording

579
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.759
people on the phone. So this is interesting because it's

580
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:16.079
something Dennis used to do. He's recorded law enforcement several

581
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:21.319
times in their conversations, but they recorded Flova, Jack's mom

582
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.000
talking to one of her friends in regards to this move,

583
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:26.440
and the friend is convinced or at least trying to

584
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.519
convince Flova that they're trying to take your house or

585
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:32.000
trying to take your money, They're trying to make you move. They're,

586
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:37.559
you know, basically was conspiring to take all that Flova

587
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.880
had and got Flova very upset. So she's having this

588
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.640
conversation and it's being recorded by Jack and Nora so

589
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:47.000
they can go back and listen to what she's saying

590
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.599
to her friends, which that's just ekey, that's good, And

591
00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.640
this is actually ninety this is nineteen ninety three, you guys.

592
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.880
Phone calls are being recorded. The response to this the

593
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.880
is what absolutely floors me, because this is just that

594
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:05.680
we know that Jack's not rational, and why else would

595
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.559
I have him paid for the Zodiac Killer. But this

596
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.719
entry of the diary goes on to say that they

597
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.639
headed over to Nell's house, the woman that was trying

598
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.719
to convince Jack's mom that he was trying to take

599
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.000
advantage of her, and I was blown away to see it,

600
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:25.079
says says. She must have known we were coming because

601
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:28.199
all their cars were there, but no one answered the door.

602
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.639
It was a good thing. She didn't answer her door.

603
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.239
It was Jack was ready to put a fist in

604
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:39.119
her face. Jack took his gun. That's how angry he

605
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:45.800
was to an old lady's house. That is so irrational.

606
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.960
You're going to go to an old lady's was with

607
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.280
a gun because you didn't like the conversation she had

608
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:53.840
with your mother.

609
00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:01.039
Yeah, well, it just shows you the easiest tick that

610
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:03.559
would trigger him exactly.

611
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:07.239
Yeah. I can't imagine taking my gun anywhere out of anchor.

612
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:09.079
I mean, it's just not something you do.

613
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:11.800
And it shows you she may have been onto.

614
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:13.599
Something I think she was.

615
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:18.480
Yeah, if you knew it was falsehood, he wouldn't be

616
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.960
that worried about it, although you could still be bad.

617
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:23.480
But if you knew something it was true, then he would.

618
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:28.679
Be really bad, right, yeah, right, And then to respond

619
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:31.199
in that kind of manner is exactly what we would

620
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:33.320
expect to see out of somebody of the likes of

621
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:38.400
the Zodiac Killer, very very hot headed, very Yeah. Like

622
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.440
you said, a simple tick just sends him flying. So

623
00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:44.440
imagine every time Nora left him and we see all

624
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.480
this upticks and murders, you know, people getting killed left

625
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:52.920
and right. So here is the other entry about them

626
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.719
preparing to actually move into Arizona. They're talking about picking

627
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:01.119
up Charles's records from school and getting everything going. Her

628
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:04.360
son in law, Rick, Mary's husband is coming into town

629
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.679
to help them with this move. So just basically again

630
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.800
is confirming this forward motion into Arizona. And then on

631
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.760
March eleventh, nineteen ninety three, Jack and Nora moved to

632
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.360
flag Staff. Now, of course Flagstaff is just where they

633
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.039
made it to. That was not their intentions. And the

634
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.199
diary goes back and forth talking about whether or not

635
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:27.800
they're going to stay, whether not they're going to move

636
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:31.719
on to Phoenix. Like I think this one says small

637
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.119
rider truck, put a deposit on it. We are moving

638
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.239
to Phoenix in a week or so when Rick gets here.

639
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:41.519
So here's this motion for Phoenix, Arizona. But by the

640
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.599
time they get there, they ended up actually staying in Flagstaff.

641
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:49.039
So it looks it says. Nora indicates in her diary

642
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.159
that they're looking for a place to buy again. Jack

643
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.119
doesn't show any signs of having a job or any income.

644
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:55.960
I don't know where the money is supposed to be

645
00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:01.280
coming from. March thirteenth, there at seven am in Demi,

646
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:03.559
New Mexico with a friend with one of their friends,

647
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:08.719
Jim Sherbet on Highway one eighty. It looks like Nora

648
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:12.679
has relatives and uncle Henry that lives in Springville, Arizona,

649
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.679
and relatives Pia and Pete and cousin which are cousins,

650
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:21.079
and aunt Babe it says in Flint flag Staff. So

651
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:23.800
on top of everything else, it turns out that they

652
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:26.039
have family there. That's probably going to be easier for

653
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.599
them to move into that area. And I believe what

654
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:33.079
she was complaining about was the cost of rents, which

655
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.079
did make any sense because they go from saying they

656
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.400
wanted looking for a house to buy to you know,

657
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:39.679
rent is too high, and so I don't know if

658
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.880
they're just cross referencing the meaning of rent as a

659
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.119
house payment or because some people say my rent when

660
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:51.159
really it's their house payment. Yeah. Now, so she.

661
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.079
Was worried about money, she would have definitely, you know,

662
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.440
wrote about that if she if there was some indication

663
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:02.400
of not having money or being stressed about money, and

664
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:04.679
she would definitely have that in there. If he didn't

665
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.599
have a job and he didn't have income.

666
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.360
Well, and it does go on to talk about that

667
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:11.880
is in some of these other entries as far as,

668
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:14.719
like I said, they're going back and forth, going, don't, don't.

669
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.360
Didn't want to go to Phoenix all afternoon, but now

670
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.079
checked out some places and drove around the town. Once

671
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.800
we made up our minds we were going to stay.

672
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.360
Took the truck back this morning. So like they are

673
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:28.679
back and forth, back and forth over it and money

674
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.800
does seem to be a concern. Got a Phoenix paper

675
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.639
and looked in it. After we ate. We sat there

676
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.760
a while. Oh, anyways, I wanted to go back because

677
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:42.840
I didn't finish off Charles. I think this is the

678
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.360
entry where it talks about Charles having gotten a bike,

679
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.239
and of course they're in Arizona already at this point,

680
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.360
which is interesting. But it says Green Mountain Sport SPC

681
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.599
hard Rock. That's a little too much information. I do

682
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:58.360
not believe that she put that in here, but I

683
00:38:58.360 --> 00:38:59.599
would have to go back to find it.

684
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.440
So badged out to Phoenix.

685
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.840
I think it's pretty close. Yeah, I don't feel like

686
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:13.039
it was too far. I don't know that I ever Actually.

687
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:17.719
I would say thirty to thirty minutes to an hour, dokay.

688
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:22.639
I just know that in like I said, all of

689
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.559
these entries are them going back and forth. So you know,

690
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:27.480
at the top here it says, trying to decide if

691
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.360
we were going to stay here in flag because the

692
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:33.880
rent seemed to be too high and our feelings were

693
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:38.599
we should go to Phoenix after all. Nonetheless, so it

694
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:41.079
sounds to me like what they're saying is Flagstaff's rent

695
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:42.920
was too high and that they should be going to

696
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.880
Phoenix after all. But then at the very ending of

697
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.639
this it says Jack said, we are not going anywhere.

698
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:52.320
We are going to stay right here. She says, I

699
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.400
was excited once again because I really didn't want to

700
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.079
go to Phoenix all afternoon.

701
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.800
So more expensive than Phoenix, That's what.

702
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:02.519
I would have thought.

703
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.039
But maybe flags it's obvious that he's avoiding Phoenix for

704
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:07.519
a reason.

705
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.400
Well, but Phoenix may be more urban, right, I mean

706
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:17.480
Flagstaff might be more could have been yeah, yeah, it

707
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:23.000
could have been a ritty area. I don't know. At

708
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.360
any rate. We see Jack here again in his security

709
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:30.639
guard uniform, and this is when he begins working for

710
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:36.639
Arizona University. Now, Dennis's book said to us that then

711
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.199
they moved to Washington, Arizona, Texas, and in nineteen ninety

712
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:43.159
eight they moved back to Sacramento. But what I actually

713
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.360
found is that they moved to Texas. So obviously Nora

714
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:49.000
and Jack get back together. They moved to Texas, then

715
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.159
to Arizona, and then we're going to find information that

716
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.840
shows that Jack ships Nora off to Washington when they

717
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.480
leave Arizona because he goes back to Texas to take

718
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:00.960
care of his mom and Nora and Flova do not

719
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.159
get along. So a little bit of an inconsistency with

720
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.800
where they went during this timeframe from Dennis's book, But

721
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.000
I think that we've laid out enough information here to

722
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.840
show exactly where they've been. I did find a whole

723
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.480
bunch of cursive writing, which is kind of a task

724
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:19.920
for me to have to go back to. Also some

725
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:23.840
typewritten matters, but these are all letters that were sent

726
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:30.000
to Jack's mom or the hide tanning recipe. This one

727
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.360
is ask your instructor, and I want to say that

728
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:34.880
this was, Yeah, this is in Flagstaff at Arizona five

729
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:39.119
twenty two of ninety three, So I'm not sure if

730
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.760
he's taking a course because it does say ask your

731
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.360
instructor on top, but it also looks like he's complaining

732
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:49.280
about some issues. Says cannot load the general Ledger program,

733
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:53.760
tried numerous ways, et cetera. I'm using dr JOSS five

734
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.599
point zero but tried ms DOS three point three. Please

735
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.599
either repair, replace, or tell me what I am doing wrong.

736
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:03.840
So it doesn't sound like it's a note to a professor, right,

737
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:10.159
sounds more like it's a technical computer issue with possibly

738
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.199
what he's doing for work. I'm not sure either way,

739
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:14.239
So a whole bunch.

740
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:18.440
Of use that notepad that was supposed to be intended

741
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.679
for students.

742
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:25.599
Right, So use the space below for immediate personal help

743
00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:28.639
from your instructor. To ensure a prompt reply to your

744
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:32.320
consultation request, please make your written request as brief and

745
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:35.800
clear as possible. If you've written before about the same question,

746
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:38.800
please be sure to enclose copies of all past correspondence

747
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.800
on the subject in the event you have future questions.

748
00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:43.719
We are closing another copy of this form.

749
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:44.320
Huh.

750
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.519
Yeah, I couldn't really tell where that is, but we

751
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:49.400
do see that he's doing some type of computer work

752
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.360
or he is taking a class in computers either way,

753
00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:00.239
and maybe something he's doing at Arizona University. Who knows, Yes,

754
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:00.920
there's a.

755
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.880
Lot of different craziness going on in these universities too.

756
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.880
Right right, Well, I want to say that at the

757
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:12.199
time that I was investigating the anthrax stuff, that there

758
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.880
was indication of research, which I will get back to

759
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.920
once I make a second round on this stuff. There

760
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.599
was research being done on I think, different strains of anthrax,

761
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.719
and it was being held at Arizona University. And that

762
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:30.599
was one of the reasons why I thought that Jack

763
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.559
and I want to say, Hemphil it was his name

764
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.800
was one of the individual's name in the anthrax cases.

765
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:43.960
His manuscript on anthrax and weaponizing anthrax had been reported stolen,

766
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.320
and I want to think that that was out of

767
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.679
Arizona University as well. So was all of this happening

768
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:51.840
at the same time Jack was acting as a security

769
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.559
guard where he'd have access to all these different locations

770
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:57.519
because it's his job to keep things secure, which means

771
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:02.760
he would have keys to get into these things, right yeah, yeah,

772
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:04.480
some some very interesting.

773
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:08.000
And they would trust him with a lot of different things.

774
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:14.000
Right. Here we have Gary. Now I'm a little confused.

775
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.440
I threw these pictures in here. It says Gary Lee Flagstaff,

776
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:20.800
nineteen ninety four, now, it's not impossible that Gary visited

777
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:26.519
visited more than one year during summertime. But some of

778
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:29.960
the date sequences that I have is April seventh of

779
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:33.599
nineteen ninety three, Gary comes to visit from Sacramento by motorcycle.

780
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.400
On April ninth of ninety three, Jack and Nora go

781
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:42.199
to the Grand Canyon with Gary on Easter Sunday, April

782
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:44.559
eleventh of nineteen ninety three. I need to go back

783
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.159
and find those pictures because I'm pretty sure that's going

784
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:49.000
to put him back in Texas. During that time, he

785
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.239
always seems to go home for Easter. And then April twelfth,

786
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.000
nineteen ninety three, Gary leaves to go back to Sacramento.

787
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.239
But then we see these pictures here and this is

788
00:44:57.280 --> 00:45:00.400
the house in Flagstaff, and we can see the cream

789
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.800
colored van here in the in the left hand side

790
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.559
of the picture, which that was actually reported. That was

791
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.679
a type of vehicle that was reported in one of

792
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.320
the crimes that we've discussed. I don't know if the

793
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:14.960
timeframes are correct for this or not, but clearly Jack

794
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.440
and Nora had that cream colored van and we got

795
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:21.280
to see it in we looked said Metro City. We

796
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:23.159
saw the cream colored van, so maybe that was the

797
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:26.239
same trip to the Grand Canyon. Either way, I need

798
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.559
to go back and find the nineteen ninety three easter picks.

799
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:32.079
But we see he's still, you know, traveling kind of

800
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:34.400
all over the place and people coming to visit him.

801
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:38.639
So I think that well that we made it through

802
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:45.199
all twenty slides. You guys, I'm actually fairly impressed. Is

803
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:48.239
there anything anybody would like to add or talk about, because.

804
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:53.800
We've got it's pretty gal right, this is a little place.

805
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.679
Yeah, And I'm gonna send you some stuff on the

806
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:04.280
Arizona University. It's very interesting the history, and I'm curious

807
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.760
to go back in my history of that research and

808
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:08.840
see during that time.

809
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:12.920
Frame what I could find. Well, and it isn't another

810
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:17.599
coincidence that we had do Hers, professor out of Arizona

811
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:25.360
University take interest in Dennis and the Jacks Zodiac connection.

812
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:28.239
He even tried to tie himself to it because he

813
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.960
was in South Lake Tahoe purportedly during the time of

814
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.719
the Dona last stuff. But he was also I believe

815
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:40.880
what is technical ability was to be able to determine

816
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:44.559
what is being seen in pictures that's not so very

817
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.840
clear for others of us to pick up. So it

818
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:47.840
was almost as if.

819
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:48.239
To say.

820
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:53.280
He was an infiltrator, you know, That's kind of what

821
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.800
it felt like, because he did run off with a

822
00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:59.239
lot of the negatives that Dennis had. He refused to

823
00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:02.239
give some of those pictures back to Dennis. He claimed

824
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:03.880
he wanted to keep him for his book. But I've

825
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:06.239
been through his book and I didn't see any of

826
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:12.679
those negatives that that Dennis was asking for back. So, yeah,

827
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.599
why did he come into Dennis's life? I guess I

828
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:18.920
never really, you know, stood up and asked, you know,

829
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.599
how did you come across him? How? You know, how

830
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:23.559
did you guys get involved with each other? But he

831
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.559
had made several trips out here to California, and I

832
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:29.000
was in his presence and had spoken with him on

833
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:32.920
several occasions, and we had done some research together and

834
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:35.719
looking through Jack's stuff. So I do know who Stephen

835
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.519
Doohurst is. But again, he's coming out of Arizona University.

836
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:40.920
Is that a coincidence?

837
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:48.920
The University of Northern Arizona is in Flagstaff, and Flagstaff

838
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.719
is really close to Greg Canyon and it is kind

839
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:56.000
of like a tourist town. There's the downtown has been

840
00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:00.920
Uh it's a historical with U shot and it's right

841
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:05.119
along Route sixty six, says, so I could see why

842
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:06.639
Wrench might be high there.

843
00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:12.000
Yeah. Yeah, Well, and we had the Phillip sixty six

844
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:17.559
map with the Zodiac cipher with Mount Diablo circled over

845
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:22.480
the top of it, so many connections back to Arizona

846
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.000
Constellation Mountains. I'm not sure if that one was in

847
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:28.320
New Mexico or Arizona, but Dennis talked about a story

848
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:31.280
Jack would tell that him and two other guys went

849
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:36.440
into the mountains, but only two people walked out, so

850
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:38.920
as if to say they killed one of the people

851
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.719
that was with them and the other two left.

852
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:46.159
Well, there's a lot of people that mission in that area,

853
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:48.320
in the in the in the canyon.

854
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.199
Well, and we have too. So aside from the first

855
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:57.519
beheading that we saw on November eighth, we're going to

856
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:00.800
have another one while Jack is, you know, currently living

857
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.679
there in Arizona. Second second murder, same type of style.

858
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:08.119
I believe another beheading. We haven't gotten to it yet,

859
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:11.239
but it does kind of scream that hey, I'm here.

860
00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:18.000
Are you still looking something up there?

861
00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.320
No one, No, I'm just reading about Blacks. Nineteen thirty,

862
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.920
Pluto was discovered from flaxtaf.

863
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:30.039
Oh my god, sixty six.

864
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:32.440
That led it to it being a tourist.

865
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:36.440
Gotcha, Well that would be and that would explain why

866
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.440
it was so expensive, especially if it's close to the

867
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:42.639
Grand Canyon. All right, well, we have our final seconds here.

868
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:44.559
As we time out, I want to thank you both

869
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:48.039
for being here. We are doing a pre record on Monday,

870
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:52.400
so if you guys are interested, it'll be at eleven

871
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:56.480
am our time. So everybody have a wonderful weekend and

872
00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:57.920
we will see you next Friday.

873
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:03.840
Okay, maybe Monday. We'll see again Monday.

874
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:08.599
Okay, I'll see you by. Take care guys.

875
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:26.519
Bye,