Sept. 6, 2024

Episode 142: Oakland County Child Murders

Episode 142: Oakland County Child Murders

During a 14 month period while Jack is in Cotton, Minnesota, there are a series of murders that begin in Michigan. Taking note that California is void of Zodiac Killer type murders. 7 Victims in 7 months surrounding some very Zodiac 101 coincidences...

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During a 14 month period while Jack is in Cotton, Minnesota, there are a series of murders that begin in Michigan. Taking note that California is void of Zodiac Killer type murders. 7 Victims in 7 months surrounding some very Zodiac 101 coincidences led me to this crime spree. Influential people involved, communications written, and ploys to turn themselves in at a bar are so similar to what we have been studying.

Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services

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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back

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to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.

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We'll start the show this morning by introducing Terry.

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BATCHERI kids and all of God's children, which we all are.

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And Harriet ciche.

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I got my avatar going nice. I just wanted to

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say real quick, I was able to pick this avatar

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for the show, and it's the day I voted a

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few years back. So I'm in all red, white and blue.

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See the avatar that you're talking about. So I'm not

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sure what that is. I mean, I know is, but

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I don't see your avatar, So nobody knows what you're

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I think talking about. Okay, it doesn't it doesn't show

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up for some reason. Either way, that's fine, We'll keep going. Yeah,

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I thought at this point, it would kind of behoove

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me to kind of throw in that information that actually

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makes the proximity of Jack in Minnesota in this area

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that we're talking about as we continue with the Oakland

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County child murders. So I'm just going to flip over

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to the presentation at this point and kind of share

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some information that kind of led me back to this area.

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While we know that there were writings involved, and there was,

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you know, this huge hunch that these writings were from

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the same person, the Zodiac killer, I wanted to give

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everybody kind of an idea of how this this even entertained,

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how I even entertained this area in these particular crimes.

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So Dennis had indicated that they had left California in

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nineteen seventy six, and in his book he writes, in

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the spring of nineteen seventy six, we moved to Cotton, Minnesota.

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Just after we moved there, Jack bought several boxes of

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dynamite and began blowing stumps out of the ground. Now,

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the one thing that this crossed me is that he

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must have bought this place, right, I mean, you're not

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going to go buy dynamite and start blowing up your

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rental spot, right, does I mean does that? Does that

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make a little bit of sense in most people's minds?

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I mean, it doesn't make sense because where is he

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going to get the permit to set it off the

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blow up stumps?

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I don't. All he had to do was apply for

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the permit to purchase it. So we'll have that later

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on when we get to that point in Cotton, Minnesota.

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But we do have the actual request to the Sheriff's

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department to purchase the dynamite. But as far as you

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know blowing stumps out of the ground, that's just the

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only way we know that is by Dennis's recollection. He

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said that that same year, when cold set in, we

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had to sell everything and head to Texas. But I

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show that in the information and the stuff that we

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have that they did not actively move to Texas until

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seventy seven. So it may have been wintertime of seventy seven,

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but wintertime lasts all the way through March, so it

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sets up that timeframe that places them there from I

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want to say at least spring of nineteen seventy six

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through about February March of oh god, not February or

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March of seventy seven. And of course we know that

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even though Jack moves the family, he ultimately always goes

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back and grabs the stuff and comes back. He was

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always has an exit plan as well as he has

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an entrance plan. So when he's like looking at areas,

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I put in here, if they moved in spring of

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nineteen seventy six, then Jack has already been there to

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scout out a place that they're going to be moving to.

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So it says we would not have made it through

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the winner. But Jack brought all that dynamite with us

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to Texas. I didn't know what he planned on doing

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with it, which we find out later what he ends

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up having to do with it. Another thing that we

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found in Jack's belongings were these sets of keys. And

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of course we're going to be talking about Chris Bush

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as one of the number one suspects in the Oakland

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County child murders. And his father was a he was

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his dad was in finance for GMAC International.

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Hariot I think, so that's ringing a big bill there,

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A m is.

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It's the finance arm of it's the financial arm of

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that there. I'm sure you get your loans to buy

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your new cam vehicle.

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Gotcha, Okay, that makes sense. So he has this picture

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inside of here. It's a G M A C keychain

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and it actually has a return with a code number on it.

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It would be so interesting to research and see where

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this code went to. There must be some database or

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some information. Either way, it's the drop in any mailbox postage.

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Guaranteed it had two locker keys on it. I mean

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these clearly look like locker keys. Right, locker and lock right.

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I don't know. Suthfield, Yeah, Southfield Mission, Southfield, Michigan.

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That's spot on to where we're talking.

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About, so exactly, that's what I'm saying. So Southfield is

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literally smack dab within minutes of all the locations of

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the abductions and the sites.

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Well you know that when we get to it, that

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book you that address book.

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You got, we're coming to that. We're coming to that.

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I'm going to talk about that. I'm going to talk

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to that about that next. But literally speaking, this was

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found inside of that green army can for uh ammunition

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with the pilot blue pen that had the bent over tip,

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looking like somebody just went absolutely crazy using this pen.

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Pieces of grope that were cut to about two three

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feet rolls of film that were undeveloped, which Dennis believed

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that he had found images of black dahlia that had

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been rephotographed onto a newer film so that he could

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probably dispose of the older photographs and still maintain and

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keep that information. So there were a lot of very

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uh red herrings, a lot of red herrings inside this

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arsenal box, and these keys were one of them. Let's

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see here, one's Hudson and one's a Herd lock key.

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But I think when I tried to run these numbers,

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I came up with something either associated with a lock box,

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a or not a lock box, but something like a

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what was he stashing things in lockers, lockers at a

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train station or a post office boxer. I mean, there

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was just a few things that this could have been

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associated with. Undeveloped filmed and earrings from four different sets,

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so one earring from four different sets were also found

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inside this particular lock box. So again very interesting things.

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Now we already talked about the fact that Nora has

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family in Michigan, so I kind of mapped it out

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to show everybody where you know, the travel line would be,

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and we know that if they're on this side of

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the planet, that they're definitely visiting family. When I mapped

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this out the original time, I came up with a

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sixteen hour and thirty eight minute drive time from Cotton,

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Minnesota to Southfield, Michigan. There is a eat an easier route,

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I want to say, which was going this direction in

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from the top end, and it was only about twelve

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hours to that location as well, So there was two

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different ways they could go in, but this was the

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one that it populated first. And then I realized that

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there was actually a connective road up here at the

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top of Michigan to the top portion of Wisconsin. Wow,

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man too, Oh yeah, there's nothing. The thing is is

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that while they were in Cotton, Minnesota, Dennis said that

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Jack would take off for weeks at a time, purportedly

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hunting to feed the family.

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Yeah.

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I guess what I failed to ask is did he

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actually show up with any meat?

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Exactly.

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Jack is notorious for I'm taking off to get a

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pack of cigarettes and coming back three weeks later. And

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who does that in anybody's real life? Nobody does that?

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Can I say something really quick, real quick?

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Here?

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This is when him and his crew are working under

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Gerald Ford, who was I believe from the Michigan area, right,

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Gerald FORDY. So he's now the president and I've gotten

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several decodes where he's talking about it's an execute order

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from Gerald Ford. So they're positioned there, right, And it's

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not just Jack himself, but it's who they're working with.

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There's a whole bunch of stuff going on there, but

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this is under Ford.

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Well, there's a person that Dennis talked about that was

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with them when they left Cotton, Minnesota, and I don't

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know if he was staying with them in Cotton, Minnesota,

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but Dennis said that for whatever reason, this man moved

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with them to Texas, and the story became that after

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they got to Texas. I guess Jack felt that this

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guy was blabbing too much. I don't know about what

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he was making comments that maybe made him uncomfortable. But

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Dennis says that all he knows is that Jack beat

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this guy with a table leg and they never saw

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him again. But the kids had to come out and

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Jack paid them to clean up the blood around the

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kitchen and everything. So evidently it was just a complete

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madhouse inside of there, and they were stuck in the

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room while they were hearing this entire you know, beat down,

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go down, and I thought that was extremely interesting. And

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then he never saw the man again. So I don't

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know if Jack ultimately killed this man or what it was,

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but Dennis felt it was because he was saying too

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much or talking too much. But I can't unless Jack

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is into something, what could he had to say that

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would have upset Jack so much to cause him to

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beat him with a table leg. I have no clue.

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Anyways, the second guy that he was seen with, especially

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in the deduction of Kim King when we get to that.

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Right right, well, it's kind of making sense obviously if

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everybody's talking about other people involved you and Harriet as well,

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that this other person exactly, you know, Dennis doesn't know

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where he came from up out of the blue. Wasn't

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like it was some you know, best friend of Jack's

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that he'd ever met before, and all of a sudden

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he's moving to Texas with him. So that brings us

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to this phone book found in Jack's stuff and at

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nineteen seventy six nineteen seventy seven phone books, so the

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timeframe is absolutely spot on with the Oakland County child murders.

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This phone book belonged to a gull named Carol Settlemeyer,

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and at the time she lived in Southfield, Michigan. There

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was also a license plate, a Michigan license plate with

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this and the number was one two zero capital Emma's

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and Mary capital D's and Dog capital eas and Edwards.

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So there was a Michigan license plate found with this

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phone book until so evidently at some point in nineteen

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seventy seven, or at least as described by a family member.

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When I called and discussed it with a family member,

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they had indicated that they hadn't seen her for over

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thirty years until nineteen ninety or over thirty years, almost

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thirty years until nineteen ninety three, and in nineteen ninety three, well,

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they didn't see her then at that point, but the

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rangers had found her in California because her father had

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passed away, so they came looking for her now. They

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they had claimed that she moved when she left, although

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they didn't know it at the time. She had moved

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to South Lake Tahoe, which is basically where Jack was

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exiting out of I mean, we know he moved to

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North Highlands for a few months there in nineteen seventy five,

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but by nineteen seventy six he was on his way

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to Cotton, Minnesota. And then she is leaving and the

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family didn't hear boo from her, not a word gone

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for basically almost thirty years. I want to say it

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was the sister or something like that had said and

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no words from her. So it's not like she reached

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out and called back home or wrote letters or nobody

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knew what happened to her. She just right off the

223
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.559
face of the earth. Then at that point she or

224
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.039
at some point she had moved to the Bay area,

225
00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.399
because she had obtained a post office box in Portola, California,

226
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:00.480
so that was the last address the face Emily had

227
00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:05.679
been given. Portola is the Santa Cruz area, and as

228
00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:08.519
well not too far basically from the San Jose Santa

229
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:12.000
Clara area, so it's all still relative at this point

230
00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:14.879
either way. When I'm going through this phone book, I

231
00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:19.639
find receipts, and one of these receipts are dated let's

232
00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:25.720
see twelve, twenty seventy six, and then the other one

233
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:32.600
is dated three three seventy seven. So and why these

234
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.759
two receipts they don't look to be very important at all.

235
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.120
They look like they could be food receipts that you

236
00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.879
know what I'm saying. They're not listed it says your receipt,

237
00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.159
thank you, and the other one doesn't really have anything

238
00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.960
on it, but there's small amounts, so it'd be interesting

239
00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.840
to see how that plays in. But I know that

240
00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.679
it is relatively close to the timeframes of some of

241
00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:56.799
these abductions and kills, and at least in the months

242
00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.360
we have one in December, we have one in March,

243
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.559
and these receipts are inside of there. There's also not

244
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:04.159
the kind of.

245
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.919
Thing people usually saying that type of receipt.

246
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.159
Right right, I mean, she obviously didn't care to use

247
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:17.399
it for taxes right now. One of the I wish

248
00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.399
at this point and the book has gone, I have

249
00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:21.840
no way of going back. I wish I had actually

250
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.159
scanned each in every page of it, like I had

251
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:27.559
done Dennis's stuff. But I can tell you what I

252
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:30.879
did find in it myself. Personally. There was an over

253
00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:40.639
over amount of bars listed in this book dog pounds

254
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:44.799
for several different areas, which I know that dog hair

255
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.279
has played into this somehow, whether or not it was

256
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.440
you know, picked up in where they were dropped or

257
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.240
what have you. We know that there was a ploy

258
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:55.879
with animals, and so I see all of these different

259
00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.080
and it's odd to have that all those I don't

260
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.399
even keep my local sacramentosp file, you know. And she's

261
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:07.360
got multiple in different locations all around the Southfield area.

262
00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:12.080
And then to top that off, there was a bunch

263
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:16.600
of different police departments listed in here. So again that

264
00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.240
that was, you know, an eye opener for me. I mean,

265
00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:21.960
I think even more she had more entries for things

266
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.399
that were nonsensical than she had for her own friends,

267
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:25.399
family and otherwise.

268
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:29.919
One other point, the Wayne West is in that book.

269
00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:32.759
I took the copies down when you posted it. I

270
00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.960
have them in my files. And when we get to

271
00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.000
the occ K case miscellaneous files, one guy that were

272
00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:43.360
looking at, looking at and for was a Wayne West,

273
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:45.240
and that is in that book.

274
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.960
You have the pages or you have just the inside outside,

275
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:49.480
because I have.

276
00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:53.799
The copies that I have the copies that you posted

277
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.559
on a line or Dentnis post online along from a

278
00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.440
long time ago, and Wayne West is on one of

279
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.240
the pages.

280
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:07.519
Those to me that I'm sorry, go ahead, that must

281
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.519
mean that I uploaded them to the message board. Or something.

282
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.080
Yes, yes, And.

283
00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.720
I don't see a Wayne West on this first page

284
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.279
at all, but I do see a John Hatfield and

285
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.320
Dennis thought the guy's name was John that had left

286
00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.039
with them. But just on this front you can see

287
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:40.840
Detective Bureau, Taylor fire departments. Let's see LP police didn't.

288
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.279
Well, I know you like to do things in order,

289
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.879
but you know I'm always making the big circle all

290
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.559
the time looking at stuff.

291
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:58.639
And another fire department, like there's just right, I cover

292
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:07.319
Vaughan Youth Bureau. What's the Youth Bureau? About the post

293
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.599
office South office?

294
00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.119
All that stuff should be researched.

295
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:16.480
Right right, the numbers, but no, the.

296
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:19.079
Big thing and then that's going to be that pattern

297
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.000
of that book, that that particular style of that. And

298
00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:25.799
you have that out of place blanket in Bush's bedroom

299
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.559
when we get to the Bush case that he has

300
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.000
a he had a bedroom that was you know, the

301
00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:36.720
motif was a certain way and that that blanket doesn't

302
00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.599
fit the motif.

303
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.799
But there's the police at the top again. So we

304
00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:48.119
have police, detective Bureau, two fire departments, two police departments.

305
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:55.079
There's another number there that says dog pound, So we

306
00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.920
can't we And this is just the stuff that's written

307
00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.559
on the front side of her book. As you go

308
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.279
through get to see these other things. And she actually

309
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:07.640
in here listed the Dearborn Police Department, but she hasn't

310
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.720
listed as Dearborn Heights pigs, which we know and I

311
00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.519
get it, a lot of people were calling the police pigs,

312
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.079
but we know that that is definitely a reference right

313
00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:25.400
that the Zodiac used. So there it was. Anyways, moving

314
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.160
on to the back page, and of course I have

315
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.960
these receipts blown up here now. On the back page,

316
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:35.200
we saw newsboy Dwayne Wayne. Oh there you go, Wayne

317
00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.680
w yep? Is that what you were referring to?

318
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:38.559
Yes?

319
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.559
How would you say? The guy's name was?

320
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:44.599
Well, he said it was Wayne West and he was

321
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.799
kind of mysterious and he was as named as a

322
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.119
suspect if it's the same Wayne West. But how many

323
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.759
Wayne W's are there? And was his number? Two eight seven?

324
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.519
We don't you know, they don't share all that stuff

325
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:02.240
in the documents, but two eight seven three more interesting?

326
00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:08.079
You got Eureka. What's UpWord?

327
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:10.359
Oh?

328
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:17.319
Yes, stands store Eureka. Huh so is she already in

329
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:23.039
California when she brings this with her before hmm, still

330
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:27.240
still an anomaly. Town and Country restaurant. And then this

331
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:30.799
doctor Shermer. I actually looked this guy up and he

332
00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:35.079
is a doctor in the Scott's Valley, was a doctor

333
00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.759
in the Scott's Valley area where Jack came from before

334
00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:42.799
he moved up to South South Lake Tahoe, and then

335
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.440
eventually he ends up being a doctor in Script's Drive

336
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.319
on Sacramento, California. So I did do the looking up

337
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.200
on this, but we can see visibly that this handwriting

338
00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.960
is completely different than the author of the of the

339
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:55.519
phone book.

340
00:19:55.599 --> 00:20:02.440
So there who knows and misspelled professional.

341
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:10.920
Yeah, I didn't get that far. That's very cryptic, very strange. Anyways,

342
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.960
I was able to actually both blow up the comparison

343
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.559
of facts surrounding the seven SEC cases with the seven children.

344
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.000
So clearly they do believe that these seven were together.

345
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.720
But when we start looking at the occ case, they

346
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.119
want to almost isolate it to what just three or four?

347
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:31.519
But I can't even see how they can do that.

348
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.039
So we have two that they I didn't see acknowledged.

349
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.000
We know Mark Stebbens is part of what they consider

350
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:42.200
to be the OCCK. Jane Louise Allen I'm not sure

351
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.359
of her so much, but I don't I do know

352
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.920
Jill Robinson, Christine Milech and Timothy John King were all

353
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.720
what they considered to be the Oakland County child murders.

354
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.519
So we have these other three outliers that play into

355
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.880
this and died around the same time in all of

356
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:02.559
the same kind of circumstances. What I don't know if

357
00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.119
everybody in Michigan has freckles, but there's a lot of

358
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:06.680
kids with freckles on this list.

359
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.839
Well, you know, the fact that it's seven in a

360
00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.319
cluster like that is and we've got seven come eleven.

361
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.359
I you know, I think all of them, even though

362
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.079
they think one of these crimes they pinned on somebody

363
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:27.720
or tried to or caught someone. But seven of them

364
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.599
in one area, that's right over.

365
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:35.839
Less than a fourteen month period, about yeah, fourteen month period.

366
00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.160
So of course I was looking at the how long

367
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.240
they were missing. One was only missing six and a

368
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.039
half hours before the body was found. I don't understand

369
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.720
why they marked one is not missing. So she was

370
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:52.039
never missing like at sisters home. Oh so she was.

371
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.319
So Salih Bock was was killed at the house that

372
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:58.720
she was at. So she never technically got missy.

373
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.039
Gotcha. That's why some of these people called this these

374
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.319
babysit are killings, which I think is a distraction too

375
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.000
from the truth.

376
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.960
But right well, I think I also thought that was

377
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.920
because they were bathed, they had stomachs full of food,

378
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:18.440
like they're these that too. Yeah, things that are going on.

379
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.759
So Mark Stebbens was missing for four days before they

380
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.599
found him, but that doesn't really indicate that he had

381
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.880
been held for four days, just they didn't find him

382
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:27.559
for four days.

383
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.880
I mean, if you he was reported missing on the

384
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.079
first day, right off the that and his body turns

385
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:35.960
up in a parking lot, you know, on the edge

386
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.359
of a I think it was called plaza.

387
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:41.559
But does that mean it took four days for somebody

388
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.279
to find it. Could he have been killed the day

389
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.319
that he went missing, and it took four days for

390
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:46.200
someone to find it.

391
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:48.880
No, I think that the autopsy on them showed that

392
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.200
he was not dead for all that long at the

393
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:57.799
time he found his body suffocated. All of these were

394
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:03.240
held alive. For for Mahala, she was held for nineteen days.

395
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:06.960
You know, this thing is going to get wilder and

396
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.799
wilder as we go through the documents and the things

397
00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:14.119
that the Stepens is a tip of the iceberg, but well,

398
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.880
all of it's iceberg with.

399
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.279
Well with Jane Louise Allen, she was held three days,

400
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.519
Jill Robertson was held three and a half days. Christine

401
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.279
Mileck was nineteen days, or at least this is when

402
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.759
how long they were missing. And then Timothy King was

403
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.640
only gone six days, right.

404
00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:36.359
And nineteen days an extensive period of time to hold

405
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:41.480
Christine Mahalic alive. And I think she was held that

406
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.200
long because they were laying in wait for tim King.

407
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:45.759
We'll get to that argument later.

408
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.400
Yeah, And he's the one I thought was interesting because

409
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.039
when they got to the familiar background. While they'll tell

410
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.480
you who they're living with, it isn't until you reach

411
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.279
Timothy King that you see lived with parents, two brothers,

412
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.160
one sister, upper middle class father and an attorney.

413
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:02.359
Right.

414
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.680
They didn't go that deep on anybody else what they did,

415
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:11.119
what they're you know what the right h really interesting

416
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:12.519
that it was listed that way.

417
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.599
This spooky stuff. There's some spooky stuff about Stebens. I

418
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:20.440
sent you a document where his mother said that her

419
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.519
phone number was unlisted right when the cops were visiting her,

420
00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:28.000
she got an obscene phone call, said the voice sounded familiar,

421
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.119
but she was upset that it was supposed to be

422
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:31.359
an unlisted number.

423
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.079
Oh well, we're going to get to that, okay, where

424
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.119
it says sexual attack. They indicate that Cynthia Cadou showed

425
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:45.079
signs of being sexually attacked. She Rock signs, Mark Stevens signs,

426
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.799
Jane Lewis Allen no evidence of a sexual attack, Jill

427
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:53.519
Robertson no evidence of attack, Christine Mileck conflicting evidence, so

428
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.039
they're not really sure if she was sexually attacked or not.

429
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:58.759
And then just a question mark on Tim King. And

430
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.319
I don't understand why there's a question mark, because what

431
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:03.920
does that mean. Nobody told you.

432
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.680
I think your cops are probably not with we're with

433
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.359
helding things, withholding things at that point in time. I

434
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:16.000
think that they they were tight left about the thing completely.

435
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:18.960
So we're tearing anything now.

436
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:22.839
Listening to some of these causes of death we have,

437
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.160
Cynthia could do with a school fracture from a blunt instrument.

438
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.440
Sheilish Schrock was three gunshot wounds in the abdomen. Mark

439
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:36.920
Stebbins was smothered Jane Louise Allen died of carbon monoxide poisoning,

440
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.519
Jill Robertson a shotgun blast to the face, no less

441
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:47.640
to Christine Milk smothered, and then Timothy King again questioned Mark,

442
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.039
So did they not discover how Timothy King died?

443
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.240
Well, he died of suffocation according to what they said

444
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.960
that there are autopsy reports on him say he was suffocated,

445
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.759
and I think his nose was pinched in that way,

446
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.160
same way as as.

447
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.720
Stebbens, Christine and seven and also, yeah, so that's extremely

448
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:12.200
interesting because Jack Sex's wife talked about her son coming

449
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.279
home and walking in on Jack trying to smother her

450
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:20.960
and basically stopped him in the act, which is just frightening.

451
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:21.480
Hmmm.

452
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.079
I can't imagine ever having to deal with that man anyways.

453
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.920
All Right, so let's see, I don't think there's anything

454
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.119
else in there. It brings us to our first annotated

455
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:36.799
picture from the Chris Bush crime scene, and you annotated

456
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:39.839
this here, so I'm going to let you describe this.

457
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.319
Well. You see all those inverted fs, those are something

458
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.880
that Jack loved. And you find out in this article

459
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:49.799
Jack Zodiac. Jack documents he had a fixation he had

460
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:51.799
a fixation with the f So we'll see when we

461
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:57.319
get to the Ramsey murderer of the I won't speculate

462
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.759
it is what they mean, but you can see they're

463
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:00.680
all over the document. But the big one is the

464
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:04.559
crosshair symble on the aar lobe, you know. And plus,

465
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:08.000
as we said in our last episode, why would this

466
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:11.599
be hanging on you know, suspect on Chris Bush's bedroom,

467
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:14.559
you know, hanging on the wall. I mean, it's just

468
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.039
so out of place. So whose artwork isn't I would

469
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.440
say it must be Jack's artwork. You know, Chris Bush

470
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.720
isn't going to put this on his own wall like

471
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:24.559
like a trophy.

472
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.559
You know. I can't see somebody doing that. That would

473
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.680
be all, hands down the stupidest thing. When Michigan is

474
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.319
all out on a man hunt. You already have probable

475
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:40.400
issues with being accused of child molestation and molesting other boys.

476
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.359
And this was something that his dad had been successful

477
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.640
at getting Chris Bush off of, was being involved or

478
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:51.359
being arrested and hung up for some of these acts

479
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:53.440
that he had done. But I think there's a huge

480
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.599
step to go from molesting something to killing something. When

481
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.599
suspicion could fall so heavily on you.

482
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.119
Well, when you read enough about Bush, he'll and you know,

483
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:05.960
Kathy Brod might have an issue with this, but he

484
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.119
was not the kind of he was not a vicious

485
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.799
person per se. He was kind of a happy, go

486
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.960
lucky person. So he doesn't fit that, you know, that

487
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:18.119
description of someone up tight killer, et cetera. So you know,

488
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.559
I Well, we get to the documents that I have,

489
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.640
and there are several of them for the Chris Chris

490
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:32.039
Bush murdercy. I know it's suicide. It kills himself that way.

491
00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:35.359
It's a screwy diorama, just like we're going to see

492
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:39.680
with the with the Ramsey case. The screwy of stuff

493
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.599
is at that crime scene and it's like a diorama.

494
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.559
And the big one is going to be that blanket

495
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:46.680
at the foot of the bed that has the same

496
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:48.160
motif as that cover.

497
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.519
Of the Okay, we'll get we'll get to that. I

498
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:54.759
haven't actually an opportunity. I haven't had an opportunity as

499
00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:56.720
of yet, I think to enter in Chris Bush and

500
00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:59.599
his the condition of those pictures I think I have them.

501
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.359
I'm not, but if you want to send them to me,

502
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.559
we can throw them in at some point so we

503
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:05.440
can talk about and people can see what it is

504
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.559
that you're discussing.

505
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:09.079
Right. I didn't want to overwhelm me with documents, so

506
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.599
I just gave you what we're up to the point

507
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.799
of talking about Stebbens. So I sent the Stevens document.

508
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:17.720
Correct, No, and I appreciate that.

509
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.720
I'll just be brief on this one here that I'm

510
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:24.400
the point is is the paper is saying victim's mom,

511
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:27.400
their quoting are saying we'll never know. Well, she didn't

512
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.160
say we'll never know. She said we'll probably never know.

513
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.279
That's something difference I think between says you know that

514
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.680
and then what the reality was she's saying, well, we'll

515
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.519
probably never know. Instead, they make it like a firm

516
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:44.960
we'll never know, you know. So it's it's it's.

517
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.079
Beating the public to already be set up with the

518
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.200
idea that this serial killer is never going to be

519
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:51.720
found or figured out.

520
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:52.839
Exactly.

521
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.119
Yeah, they're never going to find out for dozens of years.

522
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.319
That's where the codebreaker me comes yes.

523
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.680
Exactly, the cobreaker you comes in.

524
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:06.720
Okay, so you also have on there. Julie Edgar of

525
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.079
the Daily Tribune we'll never know. This is a very

526
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:12.400
typical subliminal message ploy. It makes a firm statement and

527
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.640
leaves out the pivotal word prove it probably now you

528
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.119
said over here under Militch was captured and held for

529
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.119
nineteen days. Where's the information that will show the whereabouts

530
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:24.480
of Norburg? What's that all?

531
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:27.279
Narberger was a little ended up being a little side show.

532
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:29.880
He was found out in some eastern state I think

533
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.440
was Wyoming or Montana or something like that, killed in

534
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:40.359
a car accident. He was a suspect. His DNA didn't

535
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:42.759
show that he was a suspect when they checked that,

536
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.519
but he had. It turned out that he had a

537
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:50.559
cross or an here or something that they think that

538
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:55.000
Christine belonged to Christine Mahalic, but that was never firmly proven.

539
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:57.240
You know, just what he had. So they checked him

540
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.920
out and it made for something for the to be shown.

541
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:08.039
But so Narburg ispect. Yeah, it didn't, it didn't come.

542
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.920
It didn't give us much, So gotcha.

543
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.799
And it's interesting that we talk about these car accidents

544
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.960
where we think that their accidents and and whether or

545
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.680
not they're fake. Because the number one suspect for dB

546
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:30.799
Cooper also died in a in a car accident. I

547
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.960
just remember there was there was one gentleman that was

548
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.720
involved or that was heavily being looked at and and

549
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.279
supposedly drove his car off of an isolated road or something.

550
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:43.839
There was really like no cause for why he ended

551
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:47.000
up in the accident, but he did and died as well.

552
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.519
So it seems to be a theme.

553
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:58.599
Was that Rickshaw. I'm trying to remember this the famous suspect.

554
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:02.359
Racks Rack Rackstraw. But I thought Rackstraw was the one

555
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.960
that Bruce Smith followed all the way up to the

556
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.480
end and did the documentary on trying to get him

557
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:09.559
to speak up, and then he died shortly after from

558
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.000
a heart attack, just like Arthur Lee Allen after being

559
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:16.440
accused as being the suspect. I think I think there

560
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:20.000
was another suspect in that series that had actually died

561
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.359
by some strange, you know, whacked out car accident on

562
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:24.359
an isolated road.

563
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.559
Well there was anybody but Jack Cyren. So let's split

564
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.599
that way, and they bucked a lot of suspects on the.

565
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.720
Other one is so small or ended up in the

566
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:37.240
middle of here.

567
00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:43.359
Let's go back, tell you what you.

568
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:49.839
Got, Okay, I want to say, says one officer talked.

569
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:51.839
I can't read it. I don't know how that did

570
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:52.880
not get blown up.

571
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:56.119
And document right in the middle of it. I don't remember.

572
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.880
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, like it

573
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.680
doesn't make any sense that it's there.

574
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.400
Well, this is talking about the placement then near the

575
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:12.519
Fairfax Office building, and if they saw and the suspect

576
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:16.880
that they saw. One of the suspects described fits Jack

577
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.240
turns to the T and the other one they describe

578
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.480
somebody that look like I'm also, except there's playing many

579
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:25.039
of six feet tall. So so I don't know why

580
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:27.319
you ended up with that particular one when somebody's playing

581
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:29.200
a game on you. But I don't have a document

582
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:30.519
like that in my files.

583
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.680
Hold on one second, I'm fixing it right now, So

584
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:39.920
I'm going to delete that. I'm gonna delete that. Blow

585
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.400
this one up. I know you guys can't see all

586
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:48.359
that's going on. But here we go, and now let's

587
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.359
go back to here, and we're gonna go back to

588
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:57.160
slide show from current slide. There we go, I present

589
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:08.079
review and let's go and present this again. All right,

590
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.480
can we put there we go back up on the presentation.

591
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.360
All right, so this day is can you read that

592
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:15.760
Terry be Ard? Do you need me to read it?

593
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.360
And you tell me what you found.

594
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.480
You'll cluck them on our files. Let me just get

595
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.000
my orientation here body found. Okay, they're talking about the

596
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.559
placement of Stebbins and he was put right in plane

597
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:27.920
view and at the I.

598
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:29.480
Don't know which one. I don't know what you're in

599
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.159
you're on, but that's not This is fell three pm

600
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:35.440
this date. Undersigned interviewed Edward Bernstein and Phyllis Lawer of

601
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.400
Sharksman Accounting, located in the Fairfax Office Building. Miss Lawer

602
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.719
states she parked her Oh so this is the parking

603
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.119
lot where the body was found. You're correct? Sorry, keep going,

604
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:48.800
I thought you were reading the whole thing.

605
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.119
Go ahead, right, No, I'm just saying I'm trying to

606
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:53.159
get to the point with it. And the point is

607
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:56.440
is that they said this person with thirty five to

608
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.039
forty years old, two hundred and forty two hundred and

609
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.519
sixty pounds, was x foot tall. Well that's not Jack Tarrance,

610
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.800
you know. But there's a conflicting one you're going to

611
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.960
see from the same time frame that I sent you

612
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.920
as well. That does match the description of Jack Tarrance.

613
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.239
That's that I sent it with the same group.

614
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.199
Okay, it's giving up then, So then the next one

615
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:22.840
talks about the Fairfox office plaza. So that's just continuing

616
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.559
on and what you're giving us the date and the

617
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.559
time frame that the body was found approximately JT and

618
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:33.400
Stebbens murder case info question mark subject has a good

619
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:37.480
view of area under question. Large picture window chair facing

620
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.519
towards ten mile also police scanner in front of the room.

621
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.440
So is this this is a suspect or a subject

622
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.199
that they're talking about that had bird's eye view of

623
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.039
this area right Somewhat?

624
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.400
It sounds like it to me. It's somewhat of an

625
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:56.400
elevated view of the area, and it conflicts with with

626
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.519
the other one you're going to see in terms of

627
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.199
the description. While I don't know Jack was quite that haavy,

628
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:03.239
but I.

629
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.360
Don't think so because we saw that picture of him,

630
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.800
and of course she couldn't really tell the size of

631
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.920
his belly, but he obviously did not look as big

632
00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.760
as he did when he was in Scott's Valley with

633
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:16.280
uh Nora in front of the ice blue Chevy, but

634
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.000
in nineteen seventy five the Christmas pictures we showed last

635
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.199
week showed him being a thinner in the individual at

636
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:22.920
that point.

637
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.159
Right, it was just m the file, so I sent it.

638
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:26.840
That's so on there right.

639
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:31.079
So now this one is Officer talked to Stebbens by

640
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.760
phone conference. Miss Stebbens, his mother. Officer was obtaining information

641
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.119
from her when at four fifty five pm, phone call

642
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.320
from subject who stated, uh, oh, do you know that?

643
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:46.519
Do you know that document?

644
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.119
Yes? I do. That's the one where I was saying

645
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.280
earlier that she's talking to the cops and she gets

646
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.519
a phone call. It's an obsceeing phone call, and he's

647
00:36:56.559 --> 00:36:59.000
telling her what he wants to do to her, and

648
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:00.840
then he says, you know what I I'm doing right now.

649
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.280
He says, I'm jacking off. You know, it's you know.

650
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.960
And then she stated that on the same dog, I said,

651
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.440
you an annotated one of this too, where I certain

652
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:12.360
the fact that she said it was an un uh

653
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:14.280
listed phone that he called.

654
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:16.079
Oh here it is, sorry, here it is. Here's a

655
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.519
big review of it. So that that that other one

656
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:21.519
probably just was a secondary one. I had already blown

657
00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:23.960
it up and putting here. But you're right, so this

658
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:29.519
is pretty nasty. Ear mufss that don't want to hear this.

659
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.960
But Ruth Stebbins, she stated, and he stated, I'm going

660
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.559
to come over and stick my d in you. He

661
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.559
then stated, do you know what I'm doing? And she

662
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:43.679
stated what and he replied, I'm jacking off.

663
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:51.079
I know, I know, come on, But she said that

664
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:54.840
she thought she recognized the voice, but she was upset

665
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.840
that listen, I have an unlisted phone call. Why are

666
00:37:57.880 --> 00:37:59.039
they calling this number?

667
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:03.960
You know right, well familiar, but it was muffled and

668
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.320
she could take away was right.

669
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:11.880
The takeaway is that, uh, this is inside information. So

670
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.079
when we get to the Tim kinkcase, you're going to

671
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:18.440
see that. Yeah, there's no way could operator without inside information.

672
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:22.000
But he had somebody at inside information. They've got on

673
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.440
a listed call there and they have the nerve to

674
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.039
call when there's a cop there as well. So and

675
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.239
they're saying, the word Jack is ends up in the message.

676
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.559
I Can I say something? Can I say? Can I

677
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.000
say something? Just really quick? When I saw that, and

678
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:41.880
you're you're picking out the words too Jack, Dick. Sorry,

679
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.320
but Dick Nixon he's no longer president, and Jack and

680
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:50.480
his crew are referring to him as Dick Nixon. So

681
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:56.599
there's something code there and uh and and then Stebbens

682
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:59.519
worked for Nixon. Then he was in the State Department,

683
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.440
and he was with bard State Department.

684
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.920
Was that the same Stebbens? Or was that the namesake?

685
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:09.079
In other words, was he it was Robert Stebbens, Robert

686
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.760
Steens for Nixon.

687
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:16.440
Was Robert Stebbens. Then h Mark Stevens actual father.

688
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:20.719
I believe so because I had to do some genealogy

689
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:24.880
tracking down and everything, and so, yeah, the the voice

690
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:30.039
would sound familiar if it's connected somehow to uh yeah,

691
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:33.079
to the State Department, to it whatever. But that's what

692
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:37.400
I'm saying. I'm picking out those words, and I know, vulgarly,

693
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:40.840
that's a vulgar word, but I'm seeing them referring to

694
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:44.440
Richard Nick that was his nickname, Dick Nixon.

695
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:46.199
Got ya.

696
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.119
Keywords? You got too many keywords? There? Too many? Seven?

697
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:54.159
Come eleven? You got seven victims in this in this

698
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.360
uh in the corner? Is this guy here that was

699
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.880
suspicious U and if you'll see, because he had a

700
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:08.239
criminal record and his name was William Alan Alan Peterson.

701
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:11.400
Okay, oh you know why that name was circled?

702
00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:14.440
Yes, and I send you documents as when the cops

703
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:18.519
checked him out because somebody left took the card from

704
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:20.760
the funeral home and placed it where the body had

705
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:23.360
been dumped. It's like, come on, you know.

706
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:26.719
The letter, the letter to doctor Danto that we're going

707
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:29.960
to come across. In this the typewritten letter, he states

708
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:33.920
that he was an unwilling accomplice, scared for his life

709
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.159
kind of thing, but wanted to turn himself into a

710
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:40.639
in at a bar to tell his story about this killer.

711
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:46.599
And the it was actually signed by Alan, right, yeah, yeah.

712
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:49.760
Exactly, Yeah, he's just playing the zodiac games.

713
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:52.559
It was just well, that's probably why they circled. That's

714
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.000
probably why they circled this name of the book because

715
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:58.599
Alan was a reference in the doctor Dallen Danto letter.

716
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.360
Well they circled that because this Ellen character here has

717
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.360
a criminal record for attempted rape or a rape charge

718
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:09.440
to get reduced. So he's not a nice guy. Wasn't

719
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:10.039
a nice guy.

720
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.199
And then of course they underline this Tom and.

721
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.880
I don't remember that Tom Collins? Is that a drink?

722
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:22.400
Tom Collins drink. You know, He's had a lot of

723
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:24.960
bars that Jack could go to and he liked his drink.

724
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:27.840
Did he drink Tom Collins? You know that's a that's

725
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:32.039
a mixer that goes I don't know much about gosh.

726
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:34.199
I had that on their way too many times.

727
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.960
I'm giving the same problem on my end. I have

728
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.320
so many copies of that that keep flicking to keep

729
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.039
going through with that address book in my computers. So

730
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:49.000
I have all these copies, but I only show one copy.

731
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.119
So someone is like hijacking my own computer. I have

732
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.440
not repaired that. I leave it that way, and I'm

733
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:57.480
not sure I know intentional I leave it that way.

734
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:00.440
So now this is the next one talks about cars

735
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:04.719
that were apparently in the area when Mark Stebbens's body

736
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:06.480
was found or when he was taken.

737
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:11.039
Right, and I, you know, any point I was going

738
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:13.719
to make to you about this here, I would have

739
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:19.000
circled something on here. But the car that they're describing,

740
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:21.199
you know, does come up there. Oh, there's a there's

741
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.960
a description. They have a dark complexed, white male, five

742
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:28.880
foot ten, heavy build, approximately forty five years old. He

743
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:34.079
had a medium length He had medium length, thinning hair, driving.

744
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:36.559
See what I'm saying he had next to him was

745
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.719
a white male and this would be probably Stepens dead

746
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:43.480
sitting in the car, which is going to be you're

747
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:46.199
going to see as an m with Jack and the

748
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:49.599
Jack did this stuff. You say that he caught his

749
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.519
eyes as he looked like his nephews for the kids

750
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.599
sitting in the car. So this was right near the

751
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:00.760
time and when the nerve y Jacks Terrence place that

752
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.760
body you know, actually a kind of a busy area,

753
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:06.920
snuck that body on the ground. And I sent you

754
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:08.880
a picture of that body too, but go ahead.

755
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:11.719
With it, yes, documents, that's okay. So I was just

756
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:13.679
gonna read some of the stuff here. It says that

757
00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.280
on to fifteen seventy six, between noon and one pm,

758
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:19.360
he was at the Village flea market at ten mile

759
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:23.239
and Woodward. He observed a late model GM Buick or

760
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.000
Cadillac maroon slash white in color with possible for sale

761
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:30.639
signs in the windows. He observed a dark complected like

762
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:32.440
you said, okay, we got the white male five to

763
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.360
ten heavy build that that does line right up with Jack.

764
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:39.639
And at forty five years age in seventy six, he

765
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:42.559
would have been so in sixty nine he was forty one.

766
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:46.239
So in seventy six we haren at a seven, so

767
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:48.599
he's forty eight. He's right there at that forty five

768
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.360
cuss mark, so not too far off. So then that

769
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:54.400
brings us to this next document.

770
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:59.400
This is a little side show to the thing where uh,

771
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:04.440
missus Steppens was upset and her son had been accosted

772
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.880
by a couple of young ruffians names I'm not sure

773
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.800
how to pronounce that last name, Sauchi Sochi, so you see,

774
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:18.400
I E. And she was upset and she wanted to

775
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:21.239
see the two of them, and she got charged or

776
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.559
was accused of stalking these two boys at one point,

777
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.400
which probably ended up being a in fact, a false

778
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:32.199
charge that she did not stalk them, and she was

779
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:34.119
kind of set up, as you'll see in the next

780
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.639
document where she had some strange women show up. I

781
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:40.400
don't know if this time where the kid was missing

782
00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:44.280
or dead. I didn't check the timeframe on this. Well

783
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.400
we can figure it out from two nineteen, you know,

784
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.159
at the top of the report. Anyway, this is part

785
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.159
of another document or part of a string of documents

786
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:55.480
where they look at this sushi and plus you can

787
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:01.639
see the name of Sauchi as in the funeral registry,

788
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.519
which I didn't send you all the picture documents of that,

789
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:07.760
and I will, and if you want to look at them,

790
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.159
you should look at them. You should have them, So

791
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:13.440
I try not to overwhelm you with that deserves a

792
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:16.639
lot in that. There's just a ton of documents, I'm

793
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:17.119
telling you.

794
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.159
So I'm trying to understand the basis for this particular document.

795
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.320
So it's an officer received a phone call from below

796
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:30.079
reference above complaint, So Margaret Gray is called in state

797
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.000
she went down to the Stebbins home and talked to

798
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:35.280
Ruth Stebbins. She states this definitely was the woman who

799
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:38.960
came to her house in August. She states she had

800
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:42.280
coffee with Miss Stebbins for half an hour. Miss Stebbins

801
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.760
would not admit she was the one involved. So I'm

802
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.320
not understanding how there's a complaint here. But it says

803
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:51.199
officer talked to Lieutenant Sullivan of the Ferndale Police Department,

804
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.480
who stated he talked to Miss Stebbins in reference to

805
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:57.679
the above of this meeting, and she states she's upset

806
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:01.039
and knows nothing of these accusations. He also talked to

807
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.920
the two Sauchie boys, Tim and Ray and they denied

808
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.880
any knowledge. So was these two boys Margaret Gray's sons.

809
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:11.840
That's not clear to me.

810
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.880
That's good, No, no, yeah, Sauchie versus. Well, I mean

811
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.880
it's not like they couldn't have a different last name.

812
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.280
But read it several times and tell me what you think.

813
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:23.719
And you know, so when Neo chance and I think.

814
00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:25.760
The context is out, I don't get it. Yeah, the

815
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:28.000
context is out of bounds. So all right on in

816
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:28.519
the next.

817
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.519
One, I'll give you just the takeaway on it. The

818
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.480
takeaway as it's like, was they're trying to put words

819
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:36.719
in Missus Stebbens's mouth and she said, no, I didn't

820
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:39.480
do that, and boh blah blah. And then and then

821
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.159
you as you'll see the name Sauchi will come up.

822
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.440
You think the complaint would have been about Margaret Gray

823
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.719
complaining that that Steben's mother had come to her house

824
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.039
and made accusations. But you're not seeing that.

825
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:59.239
But you're saying that Missus Stebbens denied that. So it's true.

826
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:03.039
It's crewey and there's more documents that go with it.

827
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.800
That talk and then what does the Sauchi Boys have

828
00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:08.119
to do with Margaret Gray? And why would they then

829
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:11.840
go back to her and them then deny any knowledge

830
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.480
of what they didn't? Is that the report is so

831
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.679
unclear the boys denied any knowledge of what the meeting

832
00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:20.800
between Gray and step Ins or right.

833
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.599
Welcome to the Oakland County child killing documents that that

834
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.639
you know we're given to you know, the King family.

835
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.639
I mean, you get a lot of that and you

836
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:31.880
have to sit and try to interpolate, well, what the

837
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:34.840
hell are they talking about here? Because the cops aren't

838
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.159
sharing much. You know, there's kind of playing their cards

839
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.800
close to this. Most of the time, there were some

840
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.440
good cops, I will say there were some that were

841
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:44.760
really doing trying to do their job. But anyway, this

842
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.519
is about this. Next one is about William Allen Peterson

843
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:51.519
and if you look at everything having to do with him,

844
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.440
because well he's the one that had a that had

845
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.360
a serious record that and that they were looking at,

846
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:02.880
you know, and he had his name at the Steven's funeral.

847
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:06.440
You know, that's kind of police work at all. One

848
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:08.840
on somedays too, who shows up for the funeral?

849
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:15.199
You know, right, so the Dubbs owner of Dubbs Country

850
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:19.159
Kitchen on ten Mile in Greenfield. Was that some place

851
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:20.719
close to where the body was found?

852
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:24.800
Well, I think you're going to find that. This one's

853
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:28.159
going to be where They asked the person did he

854
00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:30.239
ever work there? And he said no, he never worked here.

855
00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:32.639
I'm you know, I can't these are pretty small.

856
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.760
But no, that is exactly what it says. So Martin

857
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:42.679
Potashnik was question and he said that William Peterson never

858
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.199
even worked there. And it speaks about the garbage being

859
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:48.320
taken out at eleven am and eight pm. But that's

860
00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:50.440
going to usually be thrown like it says, it is

861
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:54.320
carried and placed in the compactor, So it's not dumping

862
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.280
trash across the way in some dumpster or something like.

863
00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:00.840
It's obviously a trash compactor, probably right out the back door,

864
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:03.719
somewhere in an alley or whatever it is where it's placed.

865
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:09.280
So very very interesting, but again incomplete reports. Yeah, all right,

866
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:11.719
you guys. That gives us less than thirty seconds. This

867
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:14.719
show has concluded. We will pick up where we left

868
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:18.480
off next time. I want to thank everybody for being here.

869
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:23.679
Terry and Harriet again interesting as always, and we'll continue

870
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:27.159
with the Mark sevens Legacy next weekend, Everybody, enjoy and

871
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.440
take care. You guys want to say sign off and say.

872
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:34.000
Bye bye bye bye bye bye.

873
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:40.519
Bye bye. You're welcome. Everyone, take care, Thank you, good job,

874
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:41.000
Terry be