Back to the Lake Berryessa Zodiac Killer Attacks

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. Good morning,

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True seekers and true crime junkies.
Welcome back to another week of Hit the

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Road Jack Finding the Zodiac. This
week, we are going to step back

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into the Lake Barrysa murders or attacks, and we're going to go through some

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of the evidence and we're going to
hear from Brian Hart. Now. I'm

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going to start, obviously with our
YouTube comment I think of the year.

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It's a very astute position. And
he began by asking about Jack from the

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Dennis Kaufman documentary. I'm not sure
if he actually has watched the podcast,

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but I have referred to that so
that he can kind of see what's going

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on, maybe answer some of his
questions. One of the questions he asked

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at first was what other murders did
he do? Now, of course we

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know I have a whole lot going
on in this presentation where I state that

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there is a plausibility that the zodiac
has a string of murders all across the

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United States, and so with that
I explained what I believed to be some

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connected crimes that should be looked at. His response was, it's common parlance.

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Yes, men, any suspects have
a very similar MMO in the hunt.

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You need a smoking gun. How
does the cryptograms reveal your suspect?

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Are the cryptograms rubbish? Your superpositioning
of the Z symbol is interesting. If

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your theory is true, you need
to convince the right people, many of

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dedicated lives to the crime. If
your theory is correct and the FEDS don't

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give up nor PD info needed,
is their involvement and if so, why?

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Hoping to answer some of those questions
by the time we get to the

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end of the presentation, and I
mean the end, not today. But

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I did respond, and I said, I'm definitely enjoying your line of questioning.

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It challenges my knowledge and asks questions. People just don't seem to care

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about Butterfield and Orange Chack, who
claimed to have recently sold the three forty

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except for some of the areas claim
that the last two symbols of that cipher

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reveal the suspect. In the documentary
The Hunt for the Zodiac, I concur

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look at the last two symbols,
which are the anchor type symbol followed by

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the plus symbol. The symbol that
is the anchor style has always been Jack's

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monogram in my mind, it just
fits perfectly. I mean, when you

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look at it, it is a
J, it is a T, and

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it is a W, so it
has all three, just like you would

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expect to see on somebody's towel in
a bathroom. I believe that the plus

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sign could be an indicator for being
junior or the second because he was in

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fact born JW. Terrence Junior.
So it was just a thought, but

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the coincidence is uncanny on top of
the handwriting match. And we've also found

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obviously Jack's name in other anagrams and
solves thus far, and we're going to

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see that more and more as we
step into more of the communications and we

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hear from Harriet Suche on herselves.
So I don't necessarily back any of the

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solves, but it's always interesting to
see how they come up with it,

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and it appears as though through an
anagram of the Sergeant Lynch letter, we

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saw Harriet Suche reveal what the killer
was attempting to do by submitting a code

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key to a cipher that had already
been solved. I mean, the Hardens

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had already killed it. They had
it by August eighth, and by August

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ninth it was in the newspapers,
and then for some reason on August tenth,

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we see the dear Sergeant or the
yes, the Sergeant Lynch letter pop

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up, which had always brought to
question. Obviously, I asked it in

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the last couple of weeks why the
Zodiac would feel the need to send in

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a code key when it had been
solved. Well, she kind of answered

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that for us last week by showing
us that he was attempting to state put

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all three pieces together and then lay
that over the top of the letters,

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and it's being used as a girl
cipher, which she has done she believed

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successfully for many years now. And
we're going to continue with each and every

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letter and every salve that she has, because one gets more interesting than the

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last. His response, obviously to
this was I certainly follow crime. The

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Zodiac is one of those things I
come back to in contemplation. When you

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have read or studied much, then
my perspective becomes regenerative. I enjoy seeing

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new things. I don't have the
answer, just speculation. Of course,

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I tend to think it's bigger than
assumed. I think he's correct, Yet,

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in my humble opinion, the killer
is ritualistic. The killer is deeply

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ingrained in the esoteric things and not
just happenstance. I believe that as well.

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The killer left a trail. I
agree. I, however, think

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everyone has missed it. You could
be correct. I'm not sure which party

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thinks I'm correct on, but I
need to study more. Moreover, my

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opinion is that the suspect is still
eluding the frame, which, of course

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I will ask what he means by
that, because they don't want to necessarily

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assume that he is saying that Jack
doesn't fit the frame, because everything that

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we've seen so far about Jack says
that he fits the frame. Any who,

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let's get right back into the lake
Barryessa attacks. We're going to throw

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this presentation up. Oh, let's
get over here and there we go.

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All right, So, right after
the attacks, we had the killer step

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or drive away back to Napa on
Main Street. I actually happened to be

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from Napa. I grew up in
Napa from the time of I want to

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say, about four years old until
I was about eighteen and I moved out

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to the Sacramento area. So I'm
very familiar with this car wash. And

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it was a phone booth next to
the Napa car wash on Main Street that

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the killer decided to make that phone
call to the police department letting him know

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of the crime. Now, I
did find on one of the websites this

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this uh telephone obviously looking like the
the phone is off the hook here it

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says it says edited version of the
real pay phone, which was a question

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mark in my mind because what's edited
about it? I mean, what are

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we not looking at for it to
be true? Why would you not just

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pick an image that was true.
I'm not sure. But and it says

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and how it was left by the
Zodiac killer after making his call to report

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his crime. And this is kind
of where they made that connection between well

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another connection because obviously the Zodiac Killer
is already taking credit for other crimes.

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But in Blue Rock Springs just under
three months previous to this, particular crime

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in Lake Berriessa. There was a
phone call to report the Blue Rock Springs

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murders, and it says, I
wish to report a double murder. If

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you will go one mile east on
Columbus Parkway to a public park, you

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will find the kids in a brown
car. They have been shot by a

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nine milliter luger. I also killed
those kids last year. Goodbye. Now,

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of course they said that he kind
of drew out that word goodbye by

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saying good bye in some really strange
fashion. But definitely it's a taunt.

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It's a fear factor. I'm sure
he knew. When he actually really called

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in off of the main street pay
phone. He says, I want to

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report a murder, No, a
double murder. So the linguistics are very

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similar. He says there are two. They are two miles north of park

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headquarters. Now this brings me back
to Jack's common knowledge of park rangers,

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parks, campsites, remote locations,
being able to determine exactly how far he

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is from one point to the next, or what his latitude and longitude is

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through the methods that Dennis told us
about when he used to go camping with

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Jacket and be dropped off in the
middle of the woods and have to find

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his way back to the campsite by
way of positioning or finding his location through

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a radio. Now, the fact
that he continues with this mo of quoting

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specifics tells you that he is very
familiar with the area, and that I

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think comes from the hunting ability and
the locationing ability that we know Jack had.

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He followed the statement about where they
were by saying they were in a

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white Volkswagen Karmagia, and after a
brief pause, uttered the words I'm the

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one that did it, and then
he left the receiver off of the hook.

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So that brings us to an article
that I found in regards to the

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voice. So we know that there
was a prank call to a TV show

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from a Napa State hospital. Of
course, they were able to determine that

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the person who was making those prank
calls, and he made many many prank

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calls, was not the Zodiac.
But I was more interested in what those

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who are the people who had heard
the Zodiac's voice or believed that they had

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heard the Zodiac's voice and had done
a comparison to the sound of the voice

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that came on the radio station or
the TV show, and there they all

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actually thought it was not the same
person because the sound of the voice was

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much older and deeper. And that
kind of boggled me a little bit because

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to hear that meant, I mean
much older. Those words in itself does

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not seem to fit with the identification
of the voice recollection that Brian Hartnell gave

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where he indicated that the killer would
be somewhere in between twenty and thirty.

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That's not much older. I mean, if Brian Hartnell is eighteen nineteen twenty

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twenty six to thirty, is not
considered much older in that realm. So

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I'm gonna read this article with you
for you real quick, just so you

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can hear what it was these individuals
had to say. That wasn't Zodiac?

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Say three who know that voice on
a TV show Wednesday morning? Wasn't zodiacs,

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one of the mystery killer's intended victims
said yesterday. Brian Hartnell told Nap

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County homicide detectives he remembers Zodiac voice
as being much older and deeper than the

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one heard in the series of telephone
calls to KGOTV, so that begs where

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his mindset was in regards to the
age of the individual or the suspect who

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was attacking him. It says his
opinion was backed up by NAPA Police patrolman

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David Slate and the Lao Police clerk
Nancy Slover, who have also heard the

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real killer's voice when Zodiac called their
departments to report two of his murder attacks.

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Police, however, still aren't sure, oh gosh, whether the real

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Zodiac caused the Oakham Police to or
called the Oakland Police Department at one am

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Wednesday to set up the program in
which he said he wanted to talk to

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a lawyer. So now there's some
question as to whether or not. And

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I'm not sure why I would think
that that, being the freshest phone call

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and the closest in timeframe to the
instance of a phone call asking for the

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attorney, and then the follow up
with the individual who was making the prank

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calls the next day, how could
they not be sure? How is it

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that they don't recall whether or not
that voice is the same. They were

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the closest in timeframe, obviously,
So moving on from that, after just

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following up with the car itself,
this is another thing that I've been talking

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about the caution of what you find
on the Internet and what you're looking at,

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and what is helping to either skew
people's ideas or thoughts about this case

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and the evidence involved, is things
like this. So this picture right over

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here is a remake basically of the
Karmagia. I found it on a website,

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Zodiac ciphers dot com, which tends
to be a very very intriguing website,

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has lots of information and they actually
run down theories. I was just

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a little disappointed to see this image
because right away I knew that was not

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the card door that was in police
impound. And nowhere around this picture or

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in that segment of the website could
I find anything that indicated that this was

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a reenactment of that particular vehicle.
So people get in there, they grab

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this thing up, and they think
they're looking at actual evidence, and in

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fact it is not. So you
want to find any pictures that you can

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with these checkerboard floors beneath it,
because this is the actual door that is

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in police impound. This is the
one that handwriting has been done on,

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and this is the one that has
identified the Zodiac as being connected to the

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other two crimes. Now in the
information that he left obviously on the door,

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we had some we had some consistencies
between other communications. One of them

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happened to be the Black Dahlia where
he wrote also the date and the time

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on his particular card, saying that
he was going to turn himself in.

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So we have an abbreviated month,
we have the date, and then we

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have a H sixty nine and then
a hyphen at six thirty. Of course

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we did not have any hyphens down
here about we do have hyphens in black

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Dahlia, so we know that that
is something that is being used by both

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suspects. Now it gives the dates
of the previous murders. Again, he

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likes to give his proof. He
wants everybody to know what he's responsible for.

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It was written to Valeo and it
showed the two previous dates as I'd

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indicated, and describing the crime by
knife. The bleeding knife letter in the

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Halloween card both talk about by knife. So we know again that there is

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going to be that connection between the
communications of the Fairfield letters and the Halloween

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card to Paul Avery. I did
actually find where fingerprint expert was examining the

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fingerprints from the phone both and there's
more. That's more evidence. Obviously we

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know that is sitting out there is
a possible connection, and that Jack's thumb

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print should be compared to any question
prints found on the phone booth. I

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found it a little interesting that there
was this composite drawing to me that looked

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really close to the Second Suspects scene
at Lake barry Essa. So I wanted

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to blow that up and see how
that compared, because that obviously is the

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initial composite, and it appears as
though they've elaborated on composites thereafter. But

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here we're going to go into some
of the information that Brian Hartnell had shared.

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And this is the first description actually
by both Brian Hartnell and Cecilia Shephard

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before she passed away, so this
is both of them speaking at Lake barry

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Essa. It said he had a
dark hood over his entire head and shoulders,

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and on the front of the hood
at approximately the center of the chest.

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So that would mean that not only
did it come down to the shoulders,

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but it had to have carried on
down to at least the middle of

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the chest because that's where the zodiac
symbol appeared, and that would indicate that

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the hood itself was longer than the
middle of the chest because that's where the

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symbol was. Now, it appeared
to have dart glasses and a portion of

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brown hair was observed through the eye
openings in the hood. Deputy Collins advised

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the victims a male and a female
told him they had been laying on a

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blanket near the shoreline, the girl
with her head on the boy's lap,

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and when they noticed a subject approached
them wearing a dark hood over his entire

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head and shoulders, and on the
front of the hood, at approximately the

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center of the chest, was a
cross air symbol. The victims reported the

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subject appeared to have dark glasses on
and a portion of brown hair was observed

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through the eye openings in the hood. Now this should have ruled out Arthur

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Lee Allen from the beginning. The
man was bald, so there was no

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possible way that brown hair would have
been showing through the eye holes and the

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logic behind some individuals. I just
received another YouTube comment last week forwarding me

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to a book that they claimed that
Cheney and alan Is claimed in that book

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as being a Coharts I guess in
the Crimes, which I thought was interesting

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because if he can't pin it on
one, then there must be an accomplice,

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and then that way it helps you
kind of weasel your way around or

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between things. I definitely believe that
the Zodiac killers responsible for the murders himself,

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and that he at least in these
seven crimes, that he was not

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with an accomplice, and that there
was not two suspects that were seen by

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these victims. Now, Brian Hartnell's
first description at the hospital was that he

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appeared to be heavy set, between
two hundred to two hundred and fifty pounds,

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dark clothing, dark jacket and dark
pants. Gunn was an automatic pistol

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and a black holster, and that
the knife was a long knife with a

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black handle a sheath that appeared to
be homemade. So we go back and

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forth. Sometimes I see that they
are writing a bayonet, while the bayonet

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is not a homemade knife. A
bayonet is a military knife. Let me

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see if we can find anything else. But stabbed him with a long knife.

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Stated the gun was black holster.
See the attis black handle, appeared

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to be homemade. Okay, So
that's the first description of the knife from

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Brian Hartnell. In the second description, the following day after he had recovered

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a little bit, because he was
extremely groggy the first time he was interviewed.

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This one was done with Officer John
robertson second interview of Brian Hartnell,

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and this is the description he gave. Wearing a black hooded mask, cloth

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covering entire head and shoulders, coming
down almost to the suspect's waist. So

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there we have the actual length of
the hood, which as I had indicated,

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must be longer than chess level.
Stayed on the front of the four

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00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.880
cornered type mask, similar to a
paper bag in style, there was a

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symbol. The symbol described as white, approximately three by three inches in diameter

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with asymmetrical cross. Now, of
course this is what is in the report.

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This is the perception of the individual. But we do not know what

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it is that they are giving us
as actual evidence in regards to the hood,

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because there's got to be things that
they're going to withhold so that they

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00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.880
can determine who is a copycat or
who is trying to take credit for something

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00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.799
they didn't do. Either way.
On the islets of the mask was a

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00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:38.400
pair of clip on sunglasses. In
Dennis Coffman's hood you can see the holes

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00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:44.880
where those clip on glasses or where
the clip bombs were attached over the top

244
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.279
of the glasses that were worn beneath
the hood. Hair seen through the eyelets

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00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:55.680
observed as dark brown, lightweight windbreaker, dark blue or black pleated slacks,

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old fashioned type. He said,
that makes the person older. I mean,

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on a speaking if I looked at
someone's dress, they most people are

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dressing within their era, and we
know that they keep repeating in this particular

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instance that the Zodiac killer appeared to
have been dressed in older fashioned either military

250
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:25.000
style clothing or slacks. Twenty to
thirty years of age by voice concept.

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00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.000
Well, now we hear him based
on that last article that the voice that

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was heard on KGOTV was too young. That the suspect was actually much older

253
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:40.400
with a much deeper voice. So
we can now rule out the twenty to

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thirty years of age by voice concept
that Hartnell had described. He indicated he

255
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.200
was five eight to six foot,
two hundred and twenty five to two hundred

256
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:53.400
and fifty pounds, dark brown hair, sloppy dresser, stomach hanging over the

257
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.839
trousers, spoke with some type of
draw moderate and sound not high. Or

258
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:04.039
low pitched, sounded uneducated, but
not illiterate. And I'm not sure if

259
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:10.519
that drawl is just the way he
how the cadence and how he elongated words

260
00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:17.079
like goodbye. Did he was he
capable of continuing that ruse and speaking that

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00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:22.319
way or was that his natural voice? Now that brings us to the hood

262
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.519
as described by Heart. Now I
threw this up. This was the actual

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00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:32.880
hooded picture that was placed in the
newspapers after the description had been given to

264
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:38.480
It looks like San Francisco, PD
composite artist, because this is the same

265
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.400
signature as we've talked about before as
the signature that is done on the siding

266
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.400
of the zodiac at Presidio in San
Francisco the night of Paul Stein's murder.

267
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.079
Now, oh, actually, I
mean if we consider it in that fashion,

268
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:59.039
this this composite was actually done before
the composite. So who is this

269
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.400
individual that has his hands on both? Either way, this was put into

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00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.119
the newspaper and I have an audio
clip. Now we're going to hear what

271
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:14.920
Brian Hartnew has to say about the
hoods are in the paper. This last

272
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:18.240
one that they put out, I
think it's probably as accurate as any that

273
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they haven't put up since this last
threat about the school bus. We don't

274
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:27.480
know what's going to happen, what
is mode of operation is or anything.

275
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I have no malice, I mean
in my heart against him. I just

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don't want this to happen again to
anyone else. And I want to play

277
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.240
that one more time, just so
everybody catches it. Can you do that

278
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:44.480
for me? One? Well,
the pictures are in the paper, this

279
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.960
last one that they put out.
I think it's probably as accurate as any

280
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.200
that they haven't put up since this
last threat about the school bus. We

281
00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:57.400
don't know what's going to happen,
what is mode of operation is or anything.

282
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:02.240
I have no malice, I mean
in my heart against him. I

283
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:07.680
just don't want this to happen again
to anyone else. All Right, So

284
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.319
that kind of gave me goose bumps. And that's usually what happens when the

285
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.839
truth is told. So there you
have it. You have Brian Hart now

286
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.880
well before the Zodiac book by Grace
Smith, where his rendition of that square

287
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:25.599
topped paperbag style hood ever appeared,
or ever became a notion in anybody's mind.

288
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.599
No doubt that what Brian Hart now
is talking about in the newspaper.

289
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.920
Is the composite that is drawn that
we see here that he'd given a description

290
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.960
of in regards to the hood.
Again, extremely similar to what Dennis Kaufman

291
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:45.680
found in that PA system. So
let's go back here and here we go.

292
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.839
We have pretty much covered a lot
about the hood, so I'm just

293
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:52.599
kind of breezed through these. We
can see that the hood is in fat

294
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.960
square on top, more like I
would call the flattened paper bag, not

295
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.200
the open square style that Gray Smith
has fantasized about in his book. Now

296
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.759
we do see the clip on points. There are holes on both sides of

297
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.640
the eyes for the clip on glasses, and we see that there is no

298
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.440
no nose, no mouth hole.
We just have eye holes here. And

299
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.200
of course, because this is material, this would then buckle once it was

300
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:26.960
opened up and put around something round. Again, we've talked about this one,

301
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.559
we covered it in past podcasts,
but it doesn't hurt to show again

302
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:37.359
what it was that Dennis had found
and how that was consistent. I mean,

303
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.480
look at this here being cut off. So we just have these points

304
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.319
that meet down on the shoulder.
That's what's being described there. And of

305
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:52.960
course again that zodiac symbol. Here's
some more full pictures of it. Not

306
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:57.480
only is Dennis removing it from the
PA system that Jack had made a particular

307
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.880
call for on several times, asking
Dennis about it, wanting to make sure

308
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.359
he still had it. If there
was a chance he had to get rid

309
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.400
of it, he wanted it returned. There was a big to do that

310
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.160
was actually made about this hood by
Jack, and that's the only reason why

311
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.240
Dennis ever opted to open this thing
up. Otherwise it was just a piece

312
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.480
of junk he'd been carrying around with
him for far too long after he had

313
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:26.680
obtained all of the belongings of Jack
from a shed in Arizona. So to

314
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:30.920
my knowledge, Dennis had this PA
system for three years before he ever opened

315
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:34.079
it up. And trust me,
I've been to his storage sheds, I've

316
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:38.920
been to his houses, I've been
to all of the places where any where

317
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:44.000
any of Jack's belongings have been,
and it was just an absolute disarray.

318
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.000
I mean, he just looked like
a pack rat. There was nothing,

319
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:52.240
you know, properly boxed. There
was nothing, no rhyme nor reason to

320
00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:55.480
the stacking of this stuff like it
was pretty much looked like it had just

321
00:25:55.599 --> 00:26:00.000
been literally thrown right on into the
shed with no organization. So it would

322
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.599
have I think, been challenging for
Dennis to stay on top of this PA

323
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:10.440
system or have any inclination that this
PA system was anywhere near important to Jack,

324
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:14.839
unless Jack had actually called him as
many times as Dennis said about that

325
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.720
PA system. So he did eventually
end up opening it up. He said

326
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.039
that he got it partially opened.
We can see just to this degree he

327
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.000
saw this material. You can see
it right here poking out as he slides

328
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.240
the back of the PA system out. And the second that he saw that,

329
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.720
he said he immediately closed it back
up, and he broke out the

330
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:38.640
camera to record the removal of this
piece of evidence. It has then since

331
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.759
been turned over to the FBI.
It has not been returned. It has

332
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:51.119
been confirmed as genuine material that predates
these Zodiac murders. So again, I

333
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.400
mean, you're talking about Dennis having
to go out and find some fabric that

334
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.519
was older that while in two thousand
and eight when he found this, it

335
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.359
would have made it approximately forty years
old. He would have had to have

336
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:08.400
gone around someplace and then talk about
making it look as old as this piece

337
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:12.440
actually looks we've got all of the
proper fold marks, that appears as though

338
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:18.000
it has been stored and folded for
quite some time in that manner. So

339
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.279
that's a whole lot of setup for
those that want to accuse Dennis of somehow

340
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:26.599
manufacturing this, I just don't believe
that that's possible. Another piece of evidence

341
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:32.319
that it hits home really large for
Sandy Bets is this clothesline, because as

342
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:36.119
we know, she has discussed the
dropping of clothesline on her front porch,

343
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:41.440
her clothesline going missing during some of
these crimes. Again, we don't know

344
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.839
if this was the Zodiac counting her
because she was so outspoken in regards to

345
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.240
Darling Farren and who she was,
and they may not have liked what Darling

346
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:53.240
or what Sandy Bets had to say. Either way, we know that at

347
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:59.559
Lake barri Assa, the killer forced
Cecilia to tie up Brian first, and

348
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:04.880
then the suspect tied up Cecilia.
The Lake Berryessa clothesline used to tie up

349
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.640
the victims is found over here in
the right hand corner. Charles Terrence,

350
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.480
which is Jack's son, says that
Jack carry pre cut pieces of rope under

351
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:17.640
three feet which were never enough to
actually tie anything down. In fact,

352
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:22.400
it's right here at an expert out
of Stephen Dewhurst's book where he says he

353
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:25.960
used to carry pre cut lengths of
rope shorter than three feet in his vehicle

354
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.920
all the time, that we're not
long enough to tie stuff down with.

355
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.680
That's kind of a string recollection for
a child to have, because that would

356
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.000
stand out in my mind, especially
if you couldn't tie anything down with it

357
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.000
or do anything with it. What
would be the purpose of carrying those around

358
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:51.480
extra hues strings? Maybe m now
in let's see, this is grace in

359
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.519
this book, And I wanted to
just point out that in the conversation that

360
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.599
the suspect had, and it seems
like they had quite a lengthy conversation,

361
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.839
there's a lot going on there.
There is a reference to Black daw Ya,

362
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.200
just like there wasn't the Sherry Joe
Bates murder. So he made he

363
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:12.119
made the reference in the Sherry Joe
Bates confession letter that time is short.

364
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:18.160
And for me, that is a
connection between the watches that were found at

365
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:23.359
the scenes of the crime and the
Black Dahlia crime, in which case Elizabeth

366
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:29.599
Short was one of the victims during
that era or strings of killings. So

367
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.680
let's go ahead and revisit what Hartnell
supposedly told gray Smith, and hopefully gray

368
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:41.519
Smith reported it correctly without adding too
much of his information in it. He

369
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.839
states that the stocky man wore a
light weight blue black windbreaker over a reddish

370
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:51.640
black wool shirt. This close,
Brian could see that the cross circle symbol

371
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.400
was sewn on. Now that confirms
it's not paint. So you go back

372
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:59.200
and forth and you see these different
indicators that want to tell you how this

373
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.799
quote was design And just recently I
read where somebody claimed it was painted on.

374
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:07.920
But here in Grace Smith's book,
he's actually saying that it was sewn

375
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.799
on. The man's hands were hidden
by black gloves. So now this is

376
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.079
the first time we hear about gloves, because in both of the descriptions that

377
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:19.039
Hartnell gave, he indicated he didn't
believe the man was wearing gloves. But

378
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.480
now we have black gloves that are
showing up, and he had on baggy

379
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:27.400
pleaded slacks of the old fashioned type. Brian judged him to be between five

380
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:33.359
foot ten inches and six foot So
now how did the description become five eight

381
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.599
two five ten. I'm not sure, but five ten is obviously going to

382
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:45.960
help Jack to fit into the identification. Brian judged him to between five foot

383
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:51.400
ten inches and six foot one or
two inches and two way between two hundred

384
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.559
and twenty five and two hundred and
fifty pounds. Brian was a poor judge

385
00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:00.680
of height because of his own extraordinary
tallness. He fumbled quickly in his pockets

386
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.720
for money and keys. I've only
got a little, he said, and

387
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.079
handed over the last of the money
he had, along with the keys to

388
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.279
the VW. The mask intruder pocketed
the change and tossed the keys on the

389
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.880
blanket, then put the gun in
the holster. So here we have that

390
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.400
ruse that he wants to rob him
he wants his car, but then he

391
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.880
doesn't even take the car, And
that to me takes me back to like

392
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.319
the Lipstick Killeans and the John Benney
Ramsey ransom note, where they're stating they're

393
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.200
willing to ransom and give the child
back for money, but in fact the

394
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.839
child is already dead before the ransom
notes are even found. So again,

395
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:37.680
he's telling them he wants one thing, he's doing another. So it's obviously

396
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:45.839
not about money. It says that
the masked intruder pocketed the change, tossed

397
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.440
the keys on the blanket, then
put the gun away in the holster.

398
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.079
Brian thought, maybe the guy really
does need help. Then he said,

399
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:56.160
there's no strings attached. I don't
have any money right now, but if

400
00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.119
you need help that badly, I
can help you out in another way.

401
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:04.000
Maybe no, said the stranger.
Time is running short. So here we

402
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:08.119
have a statement that is made directly
to Brian Hartnell about I believe Black Dahla

403
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:15.279
time being an effort. This kind
of also plays back into Terry Bacher's assertion

404
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:22.000
that they were strategic stabbings to these
victims that would allow them to remain alive

405
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.440
long enough, if not to survive
in order to report back the things that

406
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:32.319
he had said and the mask that
he wore. Time is running short is

407
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:37.319
again falls right in line with Terry, Joe Bates, and Black Dahya.

408
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.640
I'm an escaped convict from Deer Lodge, Montana. I've killed a prison guard

409
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:45.880
there, I have stolen a car
and nothing to lose. I'm flat broke,

410
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.960
well Man said Brian. Wouldn't you
rather be stuck on stealing charge than

411
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.839
a threat of homicide. Just don't
start playing hero on me, said the

412
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:59.160
man. Don't try to grab the
gun. I didn't really figure the gun

413
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:01.720
was loaded, and told me later
I always thought it was empty. I

414
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:05.599
heard a lot of times that this
is what they do, just as a

415
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.319
bluff, but I decided not to
call his bluff. Ryan told the man,

416
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.519
you're really wasting time with me.
I got a bill fold and this

417
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.599
much change, and that's it.
I talked all kinds of weird stuff he

418
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:22.279
told me, just weird shit.
I was talking taking a sociology class.

419
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.960
You're talking about a sophomore in college. Never really run into a real life

420
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:30.839
criminal. Gee, this guy was
nothing to worry about. He wanted just

421
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.000
money. I told him all I
had was twenty six cents, and he

422
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.279
never ended up taking anything. So
he didn't take his money. He didn't

423
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.599
take his keys, if I remember
right. I gave him the keys,

424
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:45.240
and somehow they got left behind.
He talked about how the car he had

425
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.119
was called. I thought he meant
he had a very fast car and commented

426
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.240
to him about it, and he
said it was stolen. He talked about

427
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.240
being in prison and about contacting me. We talked for quite a while the

428
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:01.279
hood the hooded man detached the two
and one half to three foot lengths of

429
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:07.880
clothesline, So now he's even actually
describing the length of this clothesline. That

430
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:14.440
is a match to what Charles Terrence
indicated his father carried that jack carried in

431
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:19.280
the back of his car. The
stocky Man's knife was even with Brian's eyes

432
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.280
and he stared at it, trying
to fix as many details as possible in

433
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:27.400
his mind. The blade was about
three quarters of an inch to one inch

434
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.880
wide and eleven to twelve inches long. Maybe a bayonet or a bread knife.

435
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:36.000
Wow, that is a drastic difference
for anybody who knows knives, to

436
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:40.039
go from bayonet to bread knife,
I mean totally different types of knives.

437
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.760
And now it states it's with a
hard wit handle decorated with two brass rivets.

438
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:50.320
White surgical cotton tape one inch wide
was wrapped around the handle, and

439
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:53.400
the whole knife was fitted into a
sheath of wood. The blade was sharpened

440
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:58.920
on both sides, so maybe that's
what gave him the bayonet's style, But

441
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.039
to call it a bayonet definitely gives
you a visual of something completely different than

442
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:08.079
a homemade knife. That was sharpened
on both sides. Had Brian ever seen

443
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:13.280
The Most Dangerous Game, he would
have recognized it as a good copy of

444
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.880
the Knife count zarof War on his
black hunting outfit. So maybe this is

445
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:22.440
another mimicry of some type of movie
or media that the Zodiac has followed.

446
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:27.280
We do know, and we will
see further down the line how he uses

447
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.880
media, movies, books, and
other things in his crimes. The killer

448
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:34.639
said life. Face down on the
ground, said the hooded man. I'm

449
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:38.840
going to have to tie you up. Brian defiantly stood up and was ordered

450
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.760
back down on the blanket. I
told I kid you not, Robert,

451
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.239
Brian said later. I became really
annoyed at the thought of being hog tied.

452
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.840
I just really annoyed, and I
argued with him about it and thought,

453
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.559
not really sensibly, but more in
the neighborhood of cops and robbers,

454
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:00.760
about getting the gun away. I
felt, as I always felt, the

455
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.480
way he handled the gun, I
could have gotten it. The only reason

456
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.960
I didn't was I figured it really
was a highly optional thing to do,

457
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.960
and if I screwed up and somebody
got hurt, I was going to get

458
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.760
blamed for being a hero. Or
trying to be a hero. So very

459
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:22.079
very interesting. Let's see here description
of the knife. So I actually brought

460
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:28.599
forth something that was a description that
was later given by a friend of Nicki

461
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:32.559
Benedict who had seen what I believe
he or they believe might have been the

462
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:37.599
suspect involved in her murder, and
he described a knife. Now, of

463
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.400
course, this one does look more
or tends to look more like a bread

464
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:45.639
knife, but it also shows the
rivets and the wooden handle. So I

465
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.760
thought that was extremely interesting because I
do believe that there's a possibility Nicki Benedict

466
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:57.039
could also have been one of the
Riverside area killings that was involved with the

467
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:02.159
Zodiac. Now as to the prison
statement, the victims reported, the suspects

468
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.920
set, I want your money and
your car keys. I'm an ex con

469
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:10.119
from Montana Deer Lodge. That has
been found that has been found to not

470
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.920
be true. There was no one
that had escaped, there was no prison

471
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:21.360
guard that was killed. So we
now have to look to why the Zodiac

472
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:27.880
would refer defer to Montana Deer Lodge, of all places to have escaped from.

473
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.800
So I kind of did a really
quick check on it, and this

474
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:35.840
is what I found out about it. Now, this prison was Conley's downfall,

475
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.920
it says, in additions to the
problems Conley had with prisoners. And

476
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:44.039
then I'm thinking Conley, obviously is
the warden at the time the community began

477
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.159
to complain of his use of the
prisoners and the office of warden for personal

478
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:52.119
gain. When he arrived in deer
Lodge, he had been a lowly deputy,

479
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.519
but within twenty years had risen to
one of the most powerful men in

480
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:59.199
the region. Through the years,
he had become personal friends with William A.

481
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:04.679
Clark and through him, the Anaconda
Copper Mining Company, a subsidiary of

482
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.280
John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil.
So that's why that stood out to me.

483
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:14.280
Hi Nolan, Hi in the sorry
late, I've got here in at

484
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:19.039
eight thirty DV hearing. Ah,
well, we still got about ten minutes

485
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:27.559
here. I'm just getting into some
extremely interesting information in regards to a statement

486
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.639
that the Zodiac Killer made um when
he stated to Brian Hartnell and Cecilia Shephard

487
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.880
that he was an escaped ex con
from Montana Deer Lodge. So I went

488
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:42.440
in and I researched this particular prison, and it had so many interesting things

489
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.880
including connections to John D. Rockefeller's
Standard Oil. Now we know there's an

490
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:51.519
oil connection obviously in the Zodiac cases. Um, John D. Rockefeller,

491
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:58.239
that puts us right into the middle
of the mob, right YEPP was one

492
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:02.800
of the copper companies that was nationalized
by Salvadora Ninde in the early seventies in

493
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:09.559
Chile and Kennicott and Antacona and then
so basically the CIA and Henry Kissinger and

494
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:19.320
Nixon just plotted to assassinate him and
put Pinochet in power in Chile. So

495
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:22.880
they were going to assassinate the owner
of Anacona copper mining company. No,

496
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:31.760
No, the Anaconda's leaders, along
with the CIA and Nixon and Kissinger decide

497
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:42.400
to assassinate the socialist socialist popularly elected
president of Chile. Oh, they put

498
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.440
in a military ruler after that,
Pinochet. These people are obviously I don't

499
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.599
I don't know if this is his
subtle way then of referring back to Um,

500
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.920
this whole entire group of maybe handlers
or people he's involved with, but

501
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.000
UM bringing up this particular I mean, I'm going to continue with the information

502
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:06.920
because it gets very interesting about this
particular prison Connley moved up the social stratus

503
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.960
with his marriage to missoula Montana socialite. While using prison labor to construct the

504
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.760
prison itself, roads for the state, and buildings for the state institutions,

505
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.880
he had also found a way to
have the inmates build him an expensive warden's

506
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:24.159
residence across Main Street from the prison, a hunting lodge on the shores of

507
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:30.559
his private lake and another for Thomas
mctaggue, and a racetrack where he ran

508
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.719
his own thoroughbreds. He also used
the produce of the prison ranch and farm

509
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:40.079
to entertain guests like Theodore Roosevelt,
Franklin D. Roosevelt, Secretary of Treasury,

510
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:45.960
William Gibbs McAdoo, several Montana governors, and of course Copper King William

511
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:51.320
Clark, and a number of directors
of the Anaconda Mining Company. At these

512
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:53.719
events, he commonly used prisoners as
cooks, waiters, and servants, so

513
00:40:53.719 --> 00:41:00.199
he was basically using this prison as
his own. Like military of of help

514
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:10.960
slave labor right warden of the Montana
State Prison was not the only office Frank

515
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Conley held. He was voted mayor
of Dear Lodge from eighteen ninety two to

516
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:20.159
eighteen ninety three and eighteen ninety five
to nineteen oh three, and again from

517
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.159
nineteen o seven to nineteen twenty nine, a position he held for eight years

518
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:29.119
after being removed from his duties as
warden. The man responsible for Conley's downfall

519
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:32.119
was Governor Joseph M. Dixon.
Dixon took office under the promise to remove

520
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:37.119
the powerful anaconom mining company from state
politics, and upon hearing that the warden

521
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:40.800
of the state prison was heavily involved
with the company, he launched a series

522
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:46.880
of investigations and audits which led bear
laid bare the extent of Warden Connolly's corruption

523
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:52.960
between nineteen oh eight and nineteen twenty
one. Some points Dixon's auditor found were

524
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:59.360
appropriating beef assorted groceries and produced cream
and butter for his private use in the

525
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:04.360
amount of eighty three hundred dollars.
That's a lot back then, using over

526
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.800
a half a million tens of state
coal for his private residence, using and

527
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:14.679
maintaining thirteen private autos at state expense, running up gas oil maintenance, selling

528
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.639
to the state for use in the
prison, dairy products and beef products produced

529
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:22.880
by the herd at market rates.
Dixon wasted no time in bringing Conley to

530
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.440
trial and charges of corruption. The
judge, however, could find no written

531
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:30.679
statute which fully defined the relationship the
state of Montana shared with Frank Conley,

532
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.920
and so could find no laws Conley
had broken. That's a go figure,

533
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:39.400
and the words of the judge,
every act of Conley was in the interest

534
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:45.519
of the state of Montana. Now
this really kicks me. Yesterday I watched

535
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:52.480
something on Netflix called Take Care of
Maya, and it is a case where

536
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:59.000
John Hopkins Children's Hospital had actually removed
a child from her parents, indicating that

537
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.360
they were abusing her in some fashion. They withheld her from her parents were

538
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.920
over three months while her situation.
While her situation deteriorated and got worse.

539
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.320
Even though the parents kept telling the
hospital what it was they needed to do,

540
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:16.840
the hospital found them to be intrusive
and belligerent and everything that would cause

541
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:22.639
somebody to think that they were abusing
their child in their eyes. Either way,

542
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:29.239
the mother of this child eventually ended
up committing suicide because she couldn't handle

543
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.199
it. After almost one hundred days
of her daughter being in pain deteriorating nothing

544
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:36.639
she could do, she had been
kicked out of the hospital. She could

545
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:40.559
not visit, See was barely able
to speak to her daughter and ended up

546
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:45.719
taking her own life. Now,
in the counter lawsuit that's occurring now,

547
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:50.280
John Hopkins hired a judge, a
sitting judge, to act as their attorney.

548
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.519
Obviously high power, big big money. But it turns out that the

549
00:43:54.800 --> 00:44:04.719
case has been indefinitely stayed on appeal
until until they decide, until they decide

550
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:08.360
some part of evidence. So instead
of going to trial, they are indefinitely

551
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.440
holding it until the appeals court makes
their decision, which is just absolutely disgusting

552
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.280
and from what I can take at
this point, it's been going on for

553
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:20.760
more than eight or ten years,
this case, and it's just not getting

554
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:24.480
to trial because John Hopkins has been
able to keep it dangling and over their

555
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:28.960
head. And as far as I
want to say, twenty twenty two,

556
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:34.480
that's I believe when they indicated the
stay was going to be indefinite until the

557
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:38.800
appeals court had rendered some decision about
going forward. And the crazy thing was

558
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:45.159
is that the John Hopkins had been
billing the insurance company for the precise disease

559
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:50.039
they said that the daughter didn't have
that. They accused the parents of abusing

560
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:54.760
the daughter over they were receiving insurance
funds for that disease, but not treating

561
00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:00.840
the daughter for that particular illness.
Is that not insane? That's crazy.

562
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:06.880
It wasn't a state appeals court or
federal I don't know. I would have

563
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.360
to go back. I would think
it would be state. That way,

564
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.119
they'd have more local control to make
sure exactly. And that's happening right here

565
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:20.039
and now today. I mean this, this is obviously still a case that

566
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.559
is ongoing. The poor little girl
is, you know, kept from her

567
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.519
mother for over one hundred days at
this hospital. Her mother commits suicide so

568
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:31.239
she'll never see her mother again.
She's attempting to sue for all the abuse.

569
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:35.519
And I've been a victim of what
she went through. She was in

570
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:40.360
deposition stating that the nurses and the
doctors were calling her a liar, telling

571
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:44.159
other people she wasn't in pain,
she was making it up. It was

572
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:46.559
all in her head. And I've
had that happened to me at Kaiser.

573
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:54.320
I eventually actually contacted the legal department
at Kaiser and they paid me out about

574
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:58.920
three thousand dollars for it. But
Kaiser did basically the same thing. When

575
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:01.360
I walked in stating I was having
an asthma attack and I needed a breathing

576
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.840
treatment. They wanted to send me
home with cough medicine. At five months

577
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.920
pregnant, I couldn't breathe. I
told them that this was something that I

578
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.639
had gone through as a child,
that I just need a breathing treatment,

579
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.760
I'd be fine. They said everything
that they told this girl, I was

580
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:17.599
lying. I needed to get out
of the emergency room. They needed the

581
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:22.480
bed for somebody else, And ten
hours later I returned with the torn lining

582
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:24.760
around my esophagus on my loans because
they didn't listen to me when I was

583
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:29.320
trying to tell them how I needed
to be treated. So it is a

584
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:31.320
very real thing, and they have
lots of power, and there's just no

585
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.840
way to go back on them or
to get another doctor to side with you.

586
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.800
Because I was told by one of
the doctors at Kaiser that there's only

587
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.719
three medical insurance carriers and if you
tell on another doctor, you won't get

588
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.800
insured by these other carriers and you
won't be able to practice. How scary

589
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.719
is that that you can't get somebody
yeah that's willing to tell the truth.

590
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.719
So it is. It basically is
now it says all though, well,

591
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:05.519
that goes also back to what the
vaccine court like. You can't win against

592
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:08.559
being harmed by one of these vaccines
more than two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

593
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:13.360
in any one given instance, and
in some cases, like with this COVID

594
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:16.119
vaccine, they were given free reign. There was going to be nobody to

595
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:22.840
come back on them in the event
that it caused any harm. Well,

596
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.920
although stripped of the influential office of
Warden, Connley continued as mayor of Dear

597
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:30.920
Lodge until nineteen twenty nine and lived
in the city until his death Ibue on

598
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:35.400
fifth of March nineteen thirty nine.
I found that it got even more interesting

599
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:38.639
with this Jerry Miles guy, who
seems to be part of some of the

600
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:43.719
information that I read, is that
he had some connections with the Channel nine

601
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.599
news company out of New York,
And let me I'll just cover that real

602
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:53.679
quick. So almost ten years after
Warden Floyd Powell resigned Governor Forrest Anderson,

603
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:58.480
who had been instrumental in negotiations which
led to the end of the Pea Riot

604
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:04.360
in nineteen fifty seven, managed to
get the state legislature to approve oh never

605
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.000
mind, I thought I had five
more notes. We'll continue this because this

606
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:12.840
is going to get into where this
prison actually ends up being what most would

607
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:21.280
refer to as boss inmate, where
they literally the inmates ran the facility and

608
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:25.679
they could get anything, do anything, be anything they wanted, including a

609
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:31.760
boss, to the degree that most
of the prison, the prison guards and

610
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:36.679
staff would allow them to continue and
behave. And that's a great story on

611
00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:40.880
Gerald Jerry Miles, who's related to
the Groat family. So we'll come back

612
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.599
to that next week. Thank you
for stepping in, Nolan. If you

613
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:46.880
want to be here for next week, I'll send you off that link and

614
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.280
we can see you gone next Friday. Yes, I'll be it on time

615
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:54.480
next week. Not for all.
All right, everybody, have a wonderful

616
00:48:54.519 --> 00:49:00.760
weekend and we will see you next
week. Thanks so much. And I

617
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:15.599
don't little job, but I don't
not a jelund I was still got a Joe loud